Who do you think SARA should be with??

[Tripp3235]

I think Slynn made an excellent point about how this ship should have stopped the that very moment in PWF when Grissom told her he couldn't do this. SMI, you state:

How can you be so sure that Grissom's line is PWF meant only those two things?
See this is where the blur comes. That scene is open to every interpretations in the world and no one stick to one opinion and say this is what he actually said.

So what would he have said if he really hadn't been interested? Let's step back that it is Sara, let's pretend another female character who we all can agree with he has no interest in had asked him out. Say...Judy!

Judy: Would you have dinner with me?
Grissom: No

and there it is...right there. "No" was uttered by Grissom and to say "he didn't mean it" is pure speculation on anyone.

Judy: Why not? Let's ... let's have dinner. Let's see what happens.

(GRISSOM pauses and sighs.)

GRISSOM: I don't know what to do about this.

Now this is probably what he would say if he wasn't interested. But you switch the person with Sara and GSR shippers say it reaks of unrequited love on Grissom's end. I admit the writers have for some reason preferred to not end Sara's suffereing at this season, but my opinion is, if Sara continues to hold a torch for Grissom NOW, well she has no shred of decency and she deserves to wait for a man who "doesn't know what to do about this".

 

[FoxRox]

Re: PWF I side with GSR since if Grissom wasn´t interested he would have just said NO and nothing more. Now he goes "I don´t know what to do about this" gesturing at himself then Sara- all troubled thus indicating there actually is something going on bw them.

And honestly there really is no doubt in my mind they DID have something but Sara is now moving on whether Grissom and GSRfans likes it or not. It´s the theme of S5.

There is also no doubt in my mind Butterflied was all about GSR- Debbie Marlin was cast esp to resemble Sara.
BUT I see Butterflied as very negative for GSR and the ultimate proof of Grissom´s weakness. He is too afraid to ever act on his feelings for Sara. And Sara understands this- why else would she look so heartbroken at hearing his speech.

I just feel Grissom is such an *** for leading Sara on yet pretending like he is so oblivious. He slips her all these little flirty comments and on top of that gets jealous as soon as her eyes wander. He wants her attention- but he won´t give anything of himself to earn it. He has feelings for her but not enough to overcome himself. There are so many ways he could have stopped Sara from ever considering him if he had wanted to. But no he has to keep her guessing. What an ego!

Personally I dropped GSR for good by the promotion plotline. That showed Grissom has no respect for Sara. I can´t support that Sara should end up with Grissom. I don´t think he will ever change. And even if he does the damage he´s already done is too great. For example how could he convince Sara he´s changed (IF he does)? There´s no way she´d put herself out there again. One of the main reasons she asked him out in the first place was because she felt vulnerable after Hank and the lab explosion. She´d never done it otherwise. And now she´s strong again. She doesn´t need Grissom.

Also brave and generous guys like Greg deserve to "win", not the guy who sits on his a** doing nothing but mess her up like Grissom.

 

[Guest]

The commentary on that episode which reveals that Grissom indeed was talking about Sara.

Well, if you're going to take that route, it has to be pointed out that even the commentary differed at the end. CM said at the end of the episode (and I'm paraphrasing here) "That ends the romance," and the other person doing the commentary (I forget who) said "Or maybe not."

I can pull up the exact wording after I get home this evening, if anyone is interested in it.

 

[Sidle_my_Idol]

Right.
I don't really agree that Grissom's confusion or anxiety is all his fault(if you believe it is there). Consider all the GSR stuffs Sara has said...from Season one.
In fact there are many scenes when I find Sara's lines and actions more confusing that Grissom's.
PWF.
Sara: Let's have dinner. Let's see what happens.
(she's talking here like she wants to experiment sth)
And pllssss Sara is not like Judy for Grissom. lol...that's too ridiculous.
That scene was much more than plain denial from Grissom whether you'd want to agree with it or not. (one reason why the writers made Grissom deny Sara's dinner offer is that this is that once Grissom starts a RELATIONSHIP with Sara, there's no looking back for him (like I have said many times before). And that's what the writers feared. Sara works with Grissom, now if they make them involved, then they have to handle it all the time..each and every scene they work together.

In Invisible Evidence.
Grissom was stable (I can't say whether to kiss her or to observe what might have happened at the time of crime). There, Sara was the one who felt uncomfortable and backed off.
She said, "Whatever happened or didn't happen between us [...]." Now Grissom's expression was confused one...honestly how would anyone react to Sara's that line?

In Butterflied.
Has anyone thought that maybe he wasn't just talking about jeopardizing only his career? As much as he knows Sara, he knows what working as CSI means to her. If they start a relationship it'll hamper his reputation, but for Sara, it means she can even be fired. Sara could live with that, but not Grissom.
That's not all; he has to deal with heck a lot of his own emotions. Remember LH said that Grissom is afraid to be known, Grissom's knows that Sara is capable of knowing him…hurting him.

Sara could move on from Grissom, but I believe she'll always love him. Her love for him is unconditional (I conclude that after all 5 seasons). Sara is not selfish.
She doesn't him to be loved in return. Yes, she tried once (hence the dinner invitation in PWF), but the denial didn't stop her from loving him.
Decency? Can't any woman love a man without expecting to be loved in return? And wouldn’t some ppl call Grissom out of character if he were accept her dinner invitation at that time. I mean the lab had exploded, Greg was almost killed and was at the hospital…and he was going deaf. Some ppl might not think that that was a good time to have a dinner date.
I agree that Sara deserves much more that what she’s been getting, but we havn't considered it from Grissom's POV. (I hope they reveal it in season six). The last thing I want to see in CSI is Sara getting hurt, so that's the reason why I want her to move on. But is it so wrong to want to see GSR resolved? I plainly disagree that it has ever been resolved in PWF or Butterflied. Those were just cliffhangers. I’m not saying that Sara deserves someone who could love her and show it to her. But all these years of GSR for nothing? That would be the greatest weakness of CSI.
As for Sara getting along with Greg, my memory was refreshed by a poster from the other board who said that Eric (in one of the article that I don’t remember the name of) said that he’s not for a romantic relationship between Greg and Sara. He wants a lil flirt and fun here and there, but not a relationship. So, where does that leave us? And I tend to agree with him. If they have just decided to completely drop GSR then I’d rather prefer Sara to have someone outside of work. If that happens I’d be an occasional viewer of CSI or tape it and watch it later kinda viewer.

PS- BTW I'm having fun..lol.

 

[SLynn]

I don't understand how you can say that scenes are all open to interpertation yet insist that you know exactly what the writers had in mind when they wrote them. *shrug*

As far as the ES quote, I've never read that anywhere. Everything I've read in regards to Greg/Sara from ES has been positive. He's been campaigning for it since season 2.

As for Sara in a relationship outside of CSI, where's the fun in that? We don't know this mystery character, why should we care about them? I think it would be odd if they brought in a Manly Sue (what do we call a male Mary Sue?) for Sara to fall madly in love with all of a sudden. I'd rather see her with Hodges before that happens.

 

[Tripp3235]

SMI, you keep saying Sara's love is unconditional. What does that mean exactly? I find it so unfair when people say that once Grissom realizes his feelings for Sara, she will be waiting for him. I can't BEGIN to state how insulting that is to me as a woman.

I also find it fair to say that if Grissom is in love with her, but isn't man enough to actually go forward then it's his own fault. Again, why does "I don't know what do to about this" is rated as being so angsty? Personally it makes me think Grissom isn't a man enough to know what to do...then Sara couldn't be happy once he got that "man/woman relations" book out of the library and agreed to consider an experiment.

As for Greg...he makes her laugh. He cares about what is happening to her. He asks her how she is doing. He practically was willing to raise a picket line to get Sara off her suspension. I think the writers have made it clear that Greg is still harboring feelings for Sara, but UNLIKE Sara, he isn't going to put his life on hold for someone who doesn't return his feelings. I don't know about ES's comments about not wanting Greg/Sara to happen, I do know about an interview he gave in December about enjoying to work with JF and I'm sure if the writers put him together with Sara, he wont complain one bit

 

[Guest]

As for Sara in a relationship outside of CSI, where's the fun in that? We don't know this mystery character, why should we care about them? I think it would be odd if they brought in a Manly Sue (what do we call a male Mary Sue?) for Sara to fall madly in love with all of a sudden. I'd rather see her with Hodges before that happens.

:lol: Sara and Hodges...a unique pair, but I agree. Where's the fun if she seeing someone we don't know, unless they come back all mixed up in evidence or something

I think a male mary sue is called lary stu...not sure on that so don't take me seriously.

My opinion is to have her with Greg, they work so smoothly together. Of course there would be conflicts, what relationship doesn't have them? It would be intersting to see them work things out. Plus, I've never seen Sara with Grissom, it's just to odd.

On a side note, if she does get with Grissom, and they fall madly in love and get married (ect, ect, ect) You realize her name would then be Sara Grissom?

Yeah, don't listen to me it's just an odd thought that struck me a few days back.

 

[Sidle_my_Idol]

I don't understand how you can say that scenes are all open to interpertation yet insist that you know exactly what the writers had in mind when they wrote them. *shrug*

I don't think I said ALL scenes. I said SOME OF THEM, and those scenes that seem blurry to me...I don't stick to just one interpretation and say that I'm 100% right. Why shrug for that?

As far as the ES quote, I've never read that anywhere. Everything I've read in regards to Greg/Sara from ES has been positive. He's been campaigning for it since season 2.

I read ES's quote about that sometime ago, but forgot to save it so I don't have it on my PC to post it here...so leave it to that. And about the campaigning thing...he campaigned about his crush on Sara I think...not a relationship with her. Now if they've changed their plan then I'm unaware of that.

As for Sara in a relationship outside of CSI, where's the fun in that? We don't know this mystery character, why should we care about them?

Won't it be enough if we're let known that Sara is with a nice guy and they're happy?
Can't the romance thing involving the key character be out of the CSI department for once?

SMI, you keep saying Sara's love is unconditional. What does that mean exactly?

I mean she doesn't judge Grissom for not being able to have a relationship with her.
If you remember the little talk at the end of 'Snakes,' Sara confessed her feelings for Grissom, and when Grissom was about to say sth, "let's....", Sara sensed it(whatever it is) and said, "It's okay." You see she understands how Grissom feels and she's fine with it. She's not complaining. That's why I call it unconditional love.

I find it so unfair when people say that once Grissom realizes his feelings for Sara, she will be waiting for him.

Who said that? I am sure I didn't. What I'm saying is that Grissom is not blind to his feelings for Sara, and he knows how Sara feels. He's not a perfect person; he's got his own issues that we don't know of. So, how can we judge his behavior like that? How can you say, "he's not man enough" without knowing what he's dealing with?
What does that kind of commitment means to Grissom?
Honestly, would you have said Nick coward if he had pulled the trigger on him while inside the Plexiglas when he realized he's being eaten alive? (it's a rhetorical question btw and don't bother if you didn't get the logical connection I'm trying to make here).
You have to see what situation you're dealing with and what it means to that person. Who is better, the person who marries soon to be divorced early or a person who takes his time and reach a forever-stable decision?
Sara is a complicated person...even for Grissom. After five years of working together, Grissom knew about Sara's dad just a couple of months ago.... and slowly Sara is opening to him...which probably means she's healing and trusting him more.

Again, why does "I don't know what do to about this" is rated as being so angsty?

Because it is. And it is not 'SO' angsty...it is just not so simple as you're trying say it is.

As for Greg...he makes her laugh. He cares about what is happening to her. He asks her how she is doing. He practically was willing to raise a picket line to get Sara off her suspension.

So why didn't Greg go to visit Sara after she was suspended, I wonder.
Did his care get shut down because Cath said 'no'? Honestly, after hearing Greg and Cath's conversation, I thought that Greg would go to Sara's apartment or give her a call or sth. I mean nobody except Grissom!!! That was a bummer.
(BTW I don't doubt Greg cares for Sara; I'm just writing this cause you seem to think that Greg cares for Sara enough to be in relationship with her). You know, Sara and Nick used to have same kind of interaction before the split. They used to laugh, joke and care for each other (I don't mean they don't now though). I just don't see any romantic tension between Sara and Greg. They care for each other..they're playful and occasionally flirty, period. That's not enough to hook them up. Not for me at least.
I have been mad at Grissom a lot of times for not doing anything, but I won't call him stupid or unmanly without hearing his side of story.

As for the interviews of JF and ES..it's their opinion and I won't comment on it. I just remembered ES's quote or sth and mentioned it. Of course they love to work with each other. Who won't? But that's not the answer to the relationship on the show.

Now I'm not an expert in relationship on this kind of show or in real life, and I'm just analyzing what I understood and saw. All those stuffs I wrote are about past and my take on them. Now if they have planned sth else relationship-wise then I'm not a clairvoyant to predict it. I can't even speculate at this point. I won't be surprised if they take Sara/Greg route, but whatever they do, I just want them to resolve GSR (from Grissom's POV that is). Surely CSI won't be the same without GSR (for ppl like me), but well if Zuiker thinks CSI can go on without Grissom then I don't want to seemed like a fool saying CSI cannot go without GSR.

PS- Well I havn't forgotten that CSI is just a TV show...and our opinions won't matter a bit.. and I'm cool about it. BTW don't be offended in anyway. I'm sorry if I did. I know you guys love and care for Sara and that's enough for me.

 

[Sidle_my_Idol]

SARA GRISSOM !!!! that sounds so right.....
love it

 

[Guest]

if Sara continues to hold a torch for Grissom NOW, well she has no shred of decency and she deserves to wait for a man who "doesn't know what to do about this".

I take issue with this. I find this statement much more offensive than the notion that Sara should wait around for Grissom, maybe because I've been in that situation myself. You don't just one day drop the torch you've held for a man you've loved/cared about for eight or so years, especially when you know that he does care for you even while acknowledging he "couldn't" do anything about it. That makes it harder to move on, not easier. And it certainly doesn't make Sara pathetic or lacking the last shreds of her dignity; it makes her human.

I think it's obvious there's no right or wrong interpretation of whether or not Sara is moving on. Maybe she is, maybe she's not. But by focusing on her relationship with Grissom even in a 'moving on' context this season, they're acknowledging that 'something' still exists between them. And will continue to exist because TPTB would rather have two possibilities for a relationship than one. It's not like they're ever going to follow through and hook up anyone on this show until maybe the last episode.

From my personal perspective, if Grissom didn't want to be with Sara - he would've said so. Sure "no" is pretty definite. But "No. I don't know what to do about this"? Grissom's not a jerk (well, not THAT much of one), if he wasn't interested, he'd find a way to tell Sara "No, I have no feelings for you whatsoever beyond that of a colleague". Besides, if things were so very over between them, why on Earth do they keep having big scenes between each other (whether they're shippy or not - the Nesting Dolls scene was huge). Is it his turn now? Absolutely. And Sara isn't hanging on his every word anymore. Doesn't mean she's moved on necessarily, but it's up to Grissom now. Why hasn't he made a move yet? Because the show still has at least two seasons to go before Grissom leaves. Personally, I think it's as simple as that - they need to drag us all along for another two years.

As for the Eric quote, I believe it's from this radio interview, he says that he "hopes not" in regard to any romances between the characters.

 

[SLynn]

The scenes that are obviously up to interpertation are the shippy ones. No one doubts when they find a bloody knife it's anyting other than a bloody knife (although what the heck was up with the golden fingernail in Committed...does anyone know?). Everyone sees it differently, slightly tainted even towards their own bias. It's natural. I personally think it's what the writers want, that they are stringing us all along, but I've grown jaded over years of television watching (this is why books are better).

As far as the actors interviews, etc., are concerned, while it's nice to hear that they support one pairing or another, it ultimately has no impact on the show. They don't write it so what they *want* to happen may or may not.

And what I meant by the unknown suitor is, well, exactly what I said. Yeah, I'd like for her character to be happy and I don't think it means she'd have to be with an established character. But, I wouldn't care as much about it if that happened. It would be like a non-romance because we'd never see them interact, or know what he was really like. That's my personal preference.

And I do agree with you that no matter what, GSR needs to be resolved. One way or another, it either needs definate steps forward or definate closure. It has had a lot to do with the show, but now it just seems they are dragging it out to keep people guessing and I hate that. Either put them together or pull them apart.

 

[Sidle_my_Idol]

Is it his turn now? Absolutely. And Sara isn't hanging on his every word anymore. Doesn't mean she's moved on necessarily, but it's up to Grissom now. Why hasn't he made a move yet? Because the show still has at least two seasons to go before Grissom leaves. Personally, I think it's as simple as that - they need to drag us all along for another two years.

WORD !!!

 

[Tripp3235]

First SMI's comments (OT: why when you do a quote now it no longer saves their name?)

Who said that? I am sure I didn't. What I'm saying is that Grissom is not blind to his feelings for Sara, and he knows how Sara feels. He's not a perfect person; he's got his own issues that we don't know of. So, how can we judge his behavior like that? How can you say, "he's not man enough" without knowing what he's dealing with?
What does that kind of commitment means to Grissom?

This is always open to interpretation. Whether Grissom is aware of his feelings for Sara is a matter of opinion. As far as what he is dealing with which keeps him from getting involved with Sara, I don't care anymore. The writers have made it clear they will not reveal any of Grissom's secrets so it's evident that Grissom/Sara will never be equal as Sara has been always open to him and he has not returned it. Relationships are hard work, and if it's this much trouble for them to even GO OUT ON A DATE, then how are they going to remain together (happily)?

Honestly, would you have said Nick coward if he had pulled the trigger on him while inside the Plexiglas when he realized he's being eaten alive? (it's a rhetorical question btw and don't bother if you didn't get the logical connection I'm trying to make here).

Ok, I get what you are trying to say here but since my earlier rhetorical comparision of Judy asking Grissom out (which I believe is closer to the issue then Nick lay dying in a coffin) was rated as ridiculous by you...then there is no point in bringing up that you are implying Grissom's inability to admit to his feelings are on par with being buried underground.

So why didn't Greg go to visit Sara after she was suspended, I wonder.

I have never said that Greg and Sara are READY to trip on down the aisle in matrimony. They have a ways to go. But I do think it's MEANINGFUL that the writers wrote that Greg stood by Sara to catherine, asked later about event, and has shown loyalty on his own. I still say it's up for interpretation that Grissom going to Sara's house had more to do with saving her job then finding out what is wrong with her.

Now with catastrophe (again, miss the quoting thing)

I take issue with this. I find this statement much more offensive than the notion that Sara should wait around for Grissom, maybe because I've been in that situation myself. You don't just one day drop the torch you've held for a man you've loved/cared about for eight or so years, especially when you know that he does care for you even while acknowledging he "couldn't" do anything about it. That makes it harder to move on, not easier. And it certainly doesn't make Sara pathetic or lacking the last shreds of her dignity; it makes her human.

Why? I don't know about your situation, but I can't believe anyone would agree that carrying a torch for someone for so long is healthy at all. Also given that we have watched this relationship NOT GROW for 5 years, I have to say I'm ready for her to move and about time. Even MSNBC said so...it's getting tiring and sad. I also feel that Grissom's rejection of her is greatly responsible with moody depressed Sara of S4, which again, I find to be insulting. As far as Sara just dropping the torch, I dont think that is how it happened. I think Sara still cares some for Grissom (Unbearable showed us that), but she is obviously on the way to fully being over him, and I for one will appluad that this storyline is over.

It's not like they're ever going to follow through and hook up anyone on this show until maybe the last episode.

I do agree on that. Especially with GSR is concerned, if they got them together...it would probably the last episode where Grissom will look at Sara and say, "So...you want to grab a bite to eat?" She will smile and that will be that.

if Grissom didn't want to be with Sara - he would've said so. Sure "no" is pretty definite. But "No. I don't know what to do about this"? Grissom's not a jerk (well, not THAT much of one), if he wasn't interested, he'd find a way to tell Sara "No, I have no feelings for you whatsoever beyond that of a colleague".

He didn't say "No, I don't know what to do about this." He said, "No." then she pushed then he said, "I don't know what to do about this." That's a big difference. As far as whether is he interested deep down or not...I dont care. When I saw that scene I pretty much threw out Grissom and Sara in my mind and never thought about it again.

 

[Guest]

So, two things I'd like to mention here.

First off, the line "I don't know what to do about this", it really depends on who hears/reads it to determine how much effect it has. To me, when I watched PWF, it showed to me that Grissom knows that Sara cares for him, and wants more than just a co-worker exsistence with him. Yet at the same time he knows that he can't, (my guess would because of thier work situation, with him being her supervisior and all)

This doesn't mean that he doesn't care about her in that way, it just means he at a loss of what to do. And it's all in opinion of how 'angsty' that line is. One thing I must point out, have they ever brought up that line again, or where she states 'by the time you figure it out, you really could be too late?' I've never really seen anything played off of that myself.

I find this statement much more offensive than the notion that Sara should wait around for Grissom, maybe because I've been in that situation myself. You don't just one day drop the torch you've held for a man you've loved/cared about for eight or so years, especially when you know that he does care for you even while acknowledging he "couldn't" do anything about it. That makes it harder to move on, not easier. And it certainly doesn't make Sara pathetic or lacking the last shreds of her dignity; it makes her human.

Amen to that, when there is someone you care enough about, you never really stop caring about them. Even when it's clear that nothing will really ever happen, you work to move one, but at the same time hope that one day he (or she) will notice you a bit more than the day before.

And no, it is not pathetic, it's hope, plain and simple. WHat really matters is how patient you are, and how long you're willing to wait.

 

[M4xw311]

FoxRot, you said: "One of the main reasons she asked him out in the first place was because she felt vulnerable after Hank and the lab explosion"

I don't think she asked him for dinner because of that. If you remember there's a scene just before the lab explosion in which Sara is following Grissom to talk to him in private (We can see her stoped when saw someone around Grissom).

GSR is complicated. Sara's feelings for Grissom are different. There's more friendship than love between them (or at least this seems to me). I said it once, she is moving on to Greg or to nobody but her.