Was Danny abused as a child?

[Crazy4Danny]

i like the sound of that top41. I think Danny talking about whatever is on his mind would give him what he needed to finish the case.

Plus i'd like to see how Mac reacts to it. We didn't really see Mac's reaction at the end of tanglewood.

 

[Guest]

As for how Mac would confront Danny...honestly, I can see it being more likely that Danny shuts down working on a case involving an abused child, rather than confronting his own abuser. It just seems more likely to happen that way given how the CSI shows operate.

I think they need to do something different from what they've done on the other shows, though. They've done bad childhood experiences with Sara and Nick but neither of them grew up in Las Vegas. New York is Danny's city and more from his past than just Tanglewood could come back to bite him. I'd still like to see the Danny shutting down bit and Mac's reaction to it all.

I could see Mac confronting Danny mid-case and Danny not being able to talk about it at that point, but then coming to Mac when the case is over and telling him what happened.

Do you really think Danny would go to Mac just like that? It could happen but I can't quite see it at the moment; got any more details so I can try and picture it? I think something else needs to happen because, as you've pointed out, at the moment Danny simply doesn't trust anyone. Like I said, if Danny actually sees Mac physically do something right in front of him i.e protect him from a past abuser, it might give him the motivation to talk to Mac.

 

[Top41]

^Yeah, I think I see Danny going to Mac if he feels like he has no other way to exonerate himself in Mac's eyes. As much as he seems like he willfully disappoints/disobeys Mac, it does seem to get to him when he does. I think if it was Mac, and not say, Hilborne, questioning whether Danny's fit to do his job, then yeah, I see Danny letting his guard down and opening up. He might feel like he doesn't have any choice.

I can sort of see Mac confronting Danny's abuser, but I also think it could be problematic. If the abuser was an adult when Danny was a kid, then it's unlikely he/she could now physically threaten Danny, as the abuser would be older and Danny is a healthy, strong young man. Psychological manipulation is another story, but Mac's unlikely to respond to that with physical force, though he might yell at the person. I don't know--I guess I see it more likely that Danny would witness Mac confronting a different abuser--the person in the case, perhaps--and that would make him trust Mac enough to tell him whatever happened to him.

Of course, if it was Danny's father who abused him and he ends up coming by for some reason or another, that's a different story. Again, though, I don't necessarily see Mac confronting Danny's father, but rather confronting Danny with knowledge about what was done to Danny.

 

[Guest]

I think someone could phsically threaten Danny if they triggered a memory that would not exactly make Danny revert to a child state but he'd be like lost in the past and not fight back, if you can work out what I mean. Doubt it would happen. To be honest I just want to see Mac get all aggressive because it's really hot when he yells at the perps and hits the table to make them jump and gets up close to them, like he did with that undertaker in 'Til Death Do We Part'.

It would be exremely hard for Danny to go to Mac like that. However, as long as they do have the conversation, it doesn't matter how they get there.

Do you think this should be before or after Tanglewood part 2? I.e, before - Mac might give Danny some slack for what ever goes down, or after - it might help to rebuid their relationship. How far into the season will that ep be if they show it for the November sweeps?

 

[Top41]

I think someone could phsically threaten Danny if they triggered a memory that would not exactly make Danny revert to a child state but he'd be like lost in the past and not fight back, if you can work out what I mean.

Yeah, I know what you mean, and yeah, that is a possibility. The psychological element would come into play--I could see that happening, yeah.

Doubt it would happen. To be honest I just want to see Mac get all aggressive because it's really hot when he yells at the perps and hits the table to make them jump and gets up close to them, like he did with that undertaker in 'Til Death Do We Part'.

I'd like to see Mac get angry if Danny blames himself--if he gets upset that Danny would blame himself for something that was so obviously not his fault.

It would be exremely hard for Danny to go to Mac like that.

You've got a good point and I see what you're saying. But then, it could be a breakthrough for Danny of sorts, which he needs to have if he's going to start to deal with whatever issues he has.

Do you think this should be before or after Tanglewood part 2? I.e, before - Mac might give Danny some slack for what ever goes down, or after - it might help to rebuid their relationship. How far into the season will that ep be if they show it for the November sweeps?

I think it could actually be dealt with in Tanglewood pt. 2, though I'm not sure it will be. I think Tanglewood pt. 2 is going to have to go some ways to repair Mac and Danny's relationship; how much worse can it get? The next step would be for Mac to fire Danny, and that's no good. I think Tanglewood pt. 2 might be positive for Danny in the end. I could be wrong, but how many more times can we see Mac yell at Danny?

 

[Crazy4Danny]

I hope Mac doesn't yell at Danny anymore, i'm not sure he could take it.

Man you guys know your psychology. The writers should really look at this site for ideas, they're brilliant.

I could see Danny sort of having a mental shut down if he was confronted by his abuser. I think he'd act tough about it but Mac would notice he was being odd. Perhaps that could lead to Mac finding out and getting angry that Danny blames himself. Hopefully this would build the relationship the two share.

I think the possibility of Danny's father being the abuser is a good one. It would explain Danny's increasingly eratic behaviour. When Mac gets mad at Danny he's reminded of his father. You guys have mentioned Danny regards Mac as a father figure.

I think Tanglewood 2 will be a breakthrough for Danny and his relationship with Mac. I hope it is anyway.

My fingers hurt after that and my brain.

 

[Top41]

I think the possibility of Danny's father being the abuser is a good one. It would explain Danny's increasingly eratic behaviour. When Mac gets mad at Danny he's reminded of his father. You guys have mentioned Danny regards Mac as a father figure.

That actually could go a long way to explaining Danny's very conflicted feelings towards Mac. On one hand, he seems desperate for the guy's approval, the way a child is for a parents' approval. A young child--again, we're talking early on in development.

On the other hand, Danny seems to constantly try to push boundaries with Mac, almost as if he's testing to see how far he can go. If Mac's feelings for him are unconditional--again, we're talking about a child relating to a parent, not an employee to a boss or even a protege to a mentor.

It would go a long way to explain why Danny seems to be trying, consciously or unconsciously, to relate to Mac like a son if he was abused by his father.

 

[JediCSI72]

I've been reading the posts lately and have ahd a few thoughts:
1. Negative attention is still attention. If the only time a child gets any attention from a parent is when he/she misbehaves, then the child might misbehave just to get some attention.
2. I'm thinking it was probably Danny's dad who was his abuser. Danny seems to have a fair amount of bravado, but I wonder what that covers up, maybe a lot of insecurities. If Danny's dad abused him, but also verbally put him down, told him he was worthless, etc., it would explain a lot of how he realtes to Mac. He respects Mac and want his approval, but at the same time he needs to test him. He may act out to see if Mac cares enough to get onto him.
3. If Danny's dad was his abuser, he could show up at the precinct one day and Mac would see how Danny reacts to him and put 2 and 2 together and figure out that Danny was abused.
4. Danny's been with the crime lab 5 years, right? Even if we haven't seen it, wouldn't it make sense that he's worked an abuse case in that time? Unless there was something very particular about the abuse, I don't see a case setting him off.

 

[Crazy4Danny]

I agree. It's logical that in the five years Danny has worked there he would have come across an abuse case. Perhaps it'll require something specific to his abuse that he'll relate to a case.

The points about Danny's abuser being his father are all coming together. It's making so much sense. Danny does seem to constantly want Mac's approval, like he needs reassuring he isn't worthless. But he still pushes Mac's limits.

I think Danny does have a lot of insecurities which he tries to cover up with his bravado attitude.

Perhaps he was being abused at home by his father and the Tanglewood gang were his escape. I still think they are connected somehow. That would explain how they know all about him.

What do you think?

 

[Top41]

Perhaps he was being abused at home by his father and the Tanglewood gang were his escape. I still think they are connected somehow. That would explain how they know all about him.

What do you think?

At this point, that's my theory. Let's look at the evidence (haha ):

1. Danny has a conflicted relationship with Mac, an older man/father figure who is his mentor. On one hand, he seeks Mac's approval; on the other, he defies him almost to see how far he can push before Mac reacts.

What does it tell us? Danny has daddy issues.

2. Danny fixates on how crime affects children. In several episodes we've seen him make specific comments about children being affected or losing their parents through crime. Danny is able to look at crime from a child's perspective. Perhaps it even goes beyond that he's able to: it's almost as if his first instinct is to look at it from that perspective.

What does it tell us? Danny's emotional growth was stunted at an early age.

3. Danny's emotions are always close to the surface. Unlike the other characters on the show, Danny seems to lack all ability to hide what he's feeling. He's been close to tears several times, and inappropriately expressed anger during one case.

What does it tell us? Again, that Danny's emotional growth was stunted. Adults can contain their feelings in most normal work situations. Danny can't.

4. Danny seems utterly incapable of trusting others. As Mac said, Danny looks at himself as an "army of one." No matter how many people counsel/try to help him, Danny has a core belief that he is the only one who can help himself, or is looking out for him. He seems to have a core belief that others don't care about him.

What does it tells us? At a crucial stage in his development (ages 0-5 or somewhere thereabouts) was shown that those he was supposed to be able to trust couldn't be trusted. One reason could be abandonment (if his mother died when he was young); another abuse.

My theory: Danny's mother died when he was very young, probably before the age of five. Danny's father was probably psychologically and physically abusive. Sexual abuse is a possibility as well, though my guess would be that that would have come from another family member, not Danny's father. I also suspect Danny was an only child. In his early teens, or even pre-teens, Danny fell in with a crowd of kids, probably mostly older--the Tanglewood Boys. Danny's unhappy home situation was what led him to join the gang, but he got out when he saw the seriousness of the crimes the gang was committing. It's unlikely Danny was ever arrested for any serious crime; being present for one, though, may have led to his decision to leave the gang. His involvement with the gang coupled with issues from his home life led him to a career in law enforcement. Because of his upbringing his code of conduct doesn't always match up with the department's, but his moral center is strong.

Thoughts?

 

[Guest]

I'd like to see Mac get angry if Danny blames himself--if he gets upset that Danny would blame himself for something that was so obviously not his fault.

Mac would have to be very careful of how he showed his anger otherwise Danny might think he's angry at him. Now Mac is moving on from his wife I think it's time to see him showing more emotion, so I'm with you on Mac being upset about it all.

I think it could actually be dealt with in Tanglewood pt. 2, though I'm not sure it will be.

Although the two might be connected - Danny was abused when he was young and later joined the gang to try and get away from it - that would leave Danny dealing with an awful lot of his past in one go. Child abuse is such a major topic I think it should be dealt with in a different episode. Also if they do it in two different episodes we get two lots of Danny angst!

I think Tanglewood pt. 2 is going to have to go some ways to repair Mac and Danny's relationship; how much worse can it get?

Seeing as how it ended in the first part there might be another dip down before they start going up.If Mac finds that Danny did lie to him them we can safely predict that he is not going to be pleased about it.
Maybe this is another way that Mac could find out about possible abuse, not only does he yell at Danny but maybe gives him a rather hard push (hope he wouldn't actually hit Danny)and this could trigger a very negative response.

The next step would be for Mac to fire Danny, and that's no good.

Not good at all!

I think Tanglewood pt. 2 might be positive for Danny in the end.

Considering how we think it's going to start, for it to be good for Danny at the end, that will have to be one hell of a fast paced episode.

 

[Khanada]

I think Tanglewood pt. 2 might be positive for Danny in the end. Considering how we think it's going to start, for it to be good for Danny at the end, that will have to be one hell of a fast paced episode.

It's rumored to be going down over November Sweeps week. Two-parter, maybe?

 

[Guest]

look I think what's wrong with danny is his childhood. He came form a world that was low and evil(tanglewood boys), people around him had noone to trust to love to care, danny was just stucked in this world; where noole belonged to noone.
so danny ended up struggling to every rule others made up but all the struggle caused him to get hurt.
so I think danny's real problem is his past and his family and his childhood.

 

[Top41]

Mac would have to be very careful of how he showed his anger otherwise Danny might think he's angry at him. Now Mac is moving on from his wife I think it's time to see him showing more emotion, so I'm with you on Mac being upset about it all.

Totally true--if Mac got upset, Danny would assume it was at him and not for him. But then, I don't know that Mac is quite going to know how to handle this. It could be a learning experience for Mac of sorts.

Although the two might be connected - Danny was abused when he was young and later joined the gang to try and get away from it - that would leave Danny dealing with an awful lot of his past in one go. Child abuse is such a major topic I think it should be dealt with in a different episode. Also if they do it in two different episodes we get two lots of Danny angst!

True, except that I suspect in Tanglewood pt. 2 we'll have to get some sort of explanation for Danny's involvement in the gang. I suspect there are some sort of mitigating circumstances.

Seeing as how it ended in the first part there might be another dip down before they start going up.If Mac finds that Danny did lie to him them we can safely predict that he is not going to be pleased about it.

True, but again, we've had Mac yell at Danny in two different episodes for two different offenses. Danny's on thin ice as it is. Unless Tanglewood pt. 2 redeems Danny in some way, it's just going to be more of the same. It'll be like Danny's a bad dog who keeps misbehaving and Mac's the owner who keeps hitting him. That's no good. We need development. Danny's already trying to redeem himself. We need to see more of that, not a step backwards.

Maybe this is another way that Mac could find out about possible abuse, not only does he yell at Danny but maybe gives him a rather hard push (hope he wouldn't actually hit Danny)and this could trigger a very negative response.

I don't see Mac harming Danny physically. I could see him raising his hand in frustration and Danny misinterpreting it as a threat and flinching--probably an instinctual reaction. That would be a way to clue the audience and Mac in at the same time on just what's at the heart of Danny's issues.

Considering how we think it's going to start, for it to be good for Danny at the end, that will have to be one hell of a fast paced episode.

Well, we're assuming Tanglewood pt. 2 is going to be bad for Danny. While it will shed light on his involvement with the gang, that doesn't have to be negative. He could offer Mac an explantion right off so that he doesn't get in more trouble. Or he could provide crucial evidence against the Tanglewood Boys that could help the team. I suspect Tanglewood pt. 2 will redeem Danny. I could be wrong, but I think Danny's on the road to redemption rather than continuing down a bad path.

 

[Guest]

1. Danny has a conflicted relationship with Mac, an older man/father figure who is his mentor. On one hand, he seeks Mac's approval; on the other, he defies him almost to see how far he can push before Mac reacts.

What does it tell us? Danny has daddy issues.

Agree. I think we need to know more about Daddy Messer and if he is the abuser, have Mac chew him up and spit him out.

2. Danny fixates on how crime affects children. In several episodes we've seen him make specific comments about children being affected or losing their parents through crime. Danny is able to look at crime from a child's perspective. Perhaps it even goes beyond that he's able to: it's almost as if his first instinct is to look at it from that perspective.

What does it tell us? Danny's emotional growth was stunted at an early age.

This could also mean that Danny has been affected by crime a lot himself. We already know he was beaten up when he was 10 and later was involved with a gang, but there could be more, especially if he did grow up in the mob world, like his bio hints at.

3. Danny's emotions are always close to the surface. Unlike the other characters on the show, Danny seems to lack all ability to hide what he's feeling. He's been close to tears several times, and inappropriately expressed anger during one case.

What does it tell us? Again, that Danny's emotional growth was stunted. Adults can contain their feelings in most normal work situations. Danny can't.

Definate indication of abuse. It could also be part of Danny's natural personality, but as well as rather than instead of the abuse.

4. Danny seems utterly incapable of trusting others. As Mac said, Danny looks at himself as an "army of one." No matter how many people counsel/try to help him, Danny has a core belief that he is the only one who can help himself, or is looking out for him. He seems to have a core belief that others don't care about him.

Maybe he didn't have anyone who cared about him or that he could turn to.

What does it tells us? At a crucial stage in his development (ages 0-5 or somewhere thereabouts) was shown that those he was supposed to be able to trust couldn't be trusted. One reason could be abandonment (if his mother died when he was young); another abuse.

I think Danny has too many issues for it to just be about his mother dying when he was young.
Overall I agree with your theory Top41 , except maybe the 'Danny is an only child' bit, although I suppose the bit I always quote from 'A Man A Mile' could be interpreted as Danny wishing he had a brother.

I could see him raising his hand in frustration and Danny misinterpreting it as a threat and flinching--probably an instinctual reaction.

Another way for Mac to find out. I think Mac does need some clue, or evidence for him to follow, because Danny's behaviour is just not doing it for him.