The Soundbox--Speculations and Whatnots

I love how we're only speculating on Flack. XD
Well, that's 'cause you're the first one to mention someone else. ;)

I think it's certainly possible to speculate about more than one character at a time. The discussion about Flack has been intense, but I think it's calming down a bit now and the thread shouldn't get too confusing with multiple discussions. ;)

Re: Lindsay's 'dark secret':
I think it's worth posting the exact wording from the cbs.com character bio to start things off: "Excited and always willing to learn, Lindsay offers a fresh perspective in the lab, rarely hinting at the dark and devastating secret that originally motivated her to dedicate her life to being a CSI." (underlined by myself ;))

Part of me is loathe to delve too deeply into it because it might, like Danny's connections to Tanglewood, turn out to be a disappointment. After "Tanglewood" the discussion was so intense that, when they finally revealed that Louie was a Tanglewood Boy and that Danny had just tagged along one night and then gone home seemed like a definite letdown to some people. When you really hype something up for yourself, thinking that it's going to be awesome, sometimes you're just building yourself up for disappointment. Lindsay's 'dark secret' could be very intriguing, and maybe totally unexpected, but I worry that intense discussion could deaden the impact when the truth finally comes out. That's not to say it's not worth talking about, because it certainly is, I just hope that the writers don't disappoint when the time comes.

Since the 'dark secret' is what led Lindsay to become a CSI, I'm inclined to think that it relates in some way to the forensics field itself--perhaps someone she cared about was murdered, which is a popular theory. However, I wonder if it could be something else. A tragic past is 'dark' but why keep it secret when you're surrounded by people with their own tragic pasts? You might not want to discuss it, and that's totally acceptable, but I just don't see the need to be secretive. It's a fair bet that everyone knows that Mac's wife died (even if her manner of death had been different), but they don't regularly discuss it. It's dark, and definitely devastating, but it's not a secret.

Something that I find much more intriguing is the idea of someone she knew being the cause of pain and bloodshed rather than being a victim of it. Whether it's someone who abused another person over and over until it killed them, or perhaps it's just a cold-blooded killer that was too close to her for comfort. The fact that she seemed to relate to Sara Butler and even supplied the "tell Daddy I love him" makes me think it's probably not her parents. I get the feeling that perhaps her family didn't want her to leave where she's from, but leaving on bad terms is enough to make that a touchy subject without being 'dark and devastating.' If we're considering the theory that someone Lindsay knew did something horrible, then I'm inclined to doubt her parents because, to me, her attitude toward Sara and her family seemed like one of 'I can relate to parents not wanting their daughter to leave home.' I don't think she would have said the "Daddy" line the way she did if he'd been a killer or something, and although the mother wasn't present, she was mentioned and Lindsay didn't seem to react to that in a way that would stick out to me. (But this thread is all about speculating, so throw in whatever you think on that. ;))

Maybe she was in a relationship with someone who turned violent (although not necessarily against herself)--it would explain her restlessness in "All Access" because she could understand Stella having someone that she trusted do something so horrible. This sort of thing is pretty cliche, of course, but it's realistic because it does happen. If Lindsay was with someone (dating, married, whatever) and they turned out to be a serial killer or something, then it would certainly be something she'd want to keep secret. Maybe she'd want to dedicate her life to stopping criminals because she feels, on some level, that she failed to stop the person she cared about from murdering/etc. another person. Maybe she'd had a gut instinct that there was something wrong, but no concrete evidence that anything was going on--that could certainly make her want to find a career where she was trained to be able to discover even the most miniscule evidence that could tell the truth. This could also explain why she was so determined to follow her gut instinct in "Cool Hunter"--she knew that her instinct had been right in the past, and she couldn't risk dismissing that same instinct now when it might guide her to the truth (which she's better able to prove now that she's been trained to find the evidence she needs to prove her instinct correct). She did a lot of work to research the 'haunted' building, and she's too dedicated of a CSI to waste time if she didn't think it was absolutely necessary to consider the possibility. Her gut instinct may have been telling her that the 'haunted' building was no coincidence, and if she also had a gut feeling about the Doctor, she might not have been willing to dismiss the possible connection until she'd exhausted the evidence to prove or disprove her theory. Now, this is not to say that I think she's superstitious or anything, just that the gut-instinct portion of that case could have been relevant to her 'secret.'

Now, it's well-known that many people feel that Lindsay's character is horribly developed, and I'm sure that, to some, it might feel impossible for the writers to have given so much thought to her past. But for the sake of speculation, I choose to believe that they at least know the character's background and what lead her to NY in the first place. They chose for Lindsay to be from a specific place, and I'm curious about why they picked Bozeman, Montana. Is there something specific to that town or that state that caused them to choose it over the countless other possibilities?

Well, what does everyone else think? (And I'm still watching for Flack discussion as well. ;))
 
Hope this thread helped some with your questions, chaostheory08! :D Why don't you repost those questions here so we can all work on it?

As for Lindsay's dark secret theory, I can't say much on it since I haven't seen the entire season 2 to come up with anything substantial. All I know is that little statement of hers that she saw a more violent CS than the one in "Manhattan Manhunt". So I leave the rest of you guys to chew on. :)
 
That's true about the "MM" thing. Continuing with my theory that perhaps someone that Lindsay was close to committed some heinous crime, it's possible that Lindsay was the one to find the crime scene. The reason I say so is that maybe Mac sends her back to the lab because he knows about what happened to her and thinks she'd be more comfortable in the lab than surrounded by all of that blood. Danny told her that Mac didn't want her to see the bodies, but I'm sure he and Mac didn't chat about it after she left, so it seems like he's just assuming. If, in fact, Mac knew about what made Lindsay want to be a CSI, it's possible that he did want to protect her from seeing the bodies for two reasons: 1.) He couldn't know if she'd be distracted and make mistakes/miss something because she's upset, and he couldn't risk that happening on such a major case (and I think Mac would rather just send her back with the trace as a precaution since someone had to go anyway); and 2.) He was concerned about the scene's affect on her. Knowing Mac, he'd put the importance of the case ahead of any personal concern he felt, but I still think he'd be worried about her.

Another thing that I thought about was the fact that the cbs.com bio says that Lindsay was a CSI in Montana for 3 years before coming to NY. We don't know the ages of the characters on the show, but for the sake of argument let's assume that she's approximately the same age as Danny (like she is in real life--technically Anna is older than Carmine, but I'm just being general here ;)). Now, from comments made on the show, Danny has been working with Mac for ~6 years, right? But Lindsay has only been a CSI for ~4 years. It's possible that she's just meant to be younger, but it does make me curious, especially because Danny apparently had a career or two before he became a CSI (baseball definitely, and the music thing he mentioned in "Stuck on You" could also be one as well). So, if Danny and Lindsay have received the same education, etc., why has he been a CSI for longer? My theory is that maybe whatever motivated her to become a CSI happened after she'd already chosen another career for herself. If this is the case, I'd be interested to know what other skills she has. Maybe she already had a science-related career, so the move to forensics was a natural transition when she decided to be a CSI.

***

Now, a little bit about Flack. ;)

I don't think we've discussed potential Flack-siblings yet. We've talked about his relationship to his father, and a bit about his relationship with his mother, but we haven't gone into sibling relationships. Do you guys think Flack is an only child, or do you think he might have siblings? We can assume that he doesn't have any older brothers (since he's Jr.), but beyond that is anybody's guess. I like the idea of Flack having a younger sister or two (and apparently various fanfic writers agree with me ;)). He strikes me as the big brother type--you know, protective of his sisters and wanting to beat up anyone who messed with them. The idea of potential-boyfriends having to sit down for a little chat with Daddy-Flack and Don is just hilarious. And I can totally see Don as the type to take a guy aside and tell him that, if he even thinks about putting the moves on the little sister, Don will personally mop the floor with him. :p
 
Damn, girl. Very well thought out! Your theory fits with what little eps I've seen on Lindsay. Good job! :D Wish the writers had that in mind if they ever will develop her character further in S3.

I don't think we've discussed potential Flack-siblings yet.
Nope, we haven't!

Yeah, I'm thinking Flack's the eldest type. He has the attitude of one: responsible, looks after others, and probably drove his younger sibs to tears when he was young, and might probably still do up to now. I just don't see him as an only son because of that pitbull of a protective streak in him.

The idea of potential-boyfriends having to sit down for a little chat with Daddy-Flack and Don is just hilarious. And I can totally see Don as the type to take a guy aside and tell him that, if he even thinks about putting the moves on the little sister, Don will personally mop the floor with him.
Oh, now that's something I'd wanna see played out! Definitely.

There's this fic (anime genre) that I read where the girl's guardian would have the potential suitors sign a "contract" that if he ever does her wrong, the suitor will have the option on which kneecap to blow off. :p

Nope, I wouldn't want HIM to be a big brother. :lol:
 
Well, this is so helpful, tiqlado, thanks. It's a far cry from my classmates from the Univ that brush me off when I start my CSI tirade. It's nice to formulate our own backstories on the characters.

Anyway, yeah -- Flack siblings. Well, you can be a Jr. even if you're not the unico ijo; it can be like Eddie's -- he's the only boy and a middle child as well. That can also lead to him being the favorite... the one whom continued the family legacy. There have been no mentions on siblings on any other character except Danny, Lindsey and Stella (only child obviously).

So I'm open both ways, with or without siblings. A big brother Donnie is such a cute idea -- with two nieces or nephews running towards him lol...

On to Lindsey, yes, her character is poorly developed. For the most part of the season, she's just there mainly to process evidence and 'unearth' Mac's 'double life' lol. Her story is reminiscent of Sara's. It took CSI 5 seasons to dig into what really happened to Sara. Something in her childhood drove her to the path of CSI. But even that (with Lindsey), they presented it in the most non-interesting way.

CBS has not been as gracious with bios on CSI:NY as they were on CSI:LV. I remember how easy it was to ballpark ages and such when making a CSI:LV fic. But with this one, the freedom to AU is overwhelming. Heck, we don't even know which school they graduated from or what they specialize in. The pictured Danny as a jack of all trades: baseball, music, even the mafia. Then almost NOTHING on the other people. The only thing I got about Aiden was she was from Brooklyn and she has a brother.

One interesting part of all of these is the connection(s) between Lindsey and Catherine. Lindsey Monroe and Catherine Willows are both originally from Bozeman, Montana. And Cath's daughter is named Lindsey. So IDK, maybe TPTB are opening a window for possible affiliation with her and the LV team.

*i'm sorry if i do not make sense, i'm sleep-deprived*
 
Glad you think so, chaostheory08! Nice to see you aboard! It's really nice to throw ideas around and see what can stick, huh? :)

Flack Jr. being the eldest theory stems from my own experience as the eldest of three. I don't know how my sisters perceive me as, but some of Flack's characteristics are something I feel like I relate to, like feeling the weight of responsibilities, looking out for the young 'uns.

I haven't checked the CBS site for the LV CSI profiles for a while now, but I distinctly recall they also put in their individual expertise. Same with Miami. Wonder why not with NY...?

Let's keep the ball rolling. Any additional theories on Lindsay anyone wants to pitch in?
 
I'm the eldest too. But I have one brother. lol -- him being an only child (or an only boy anyway) makes sense to me because he was the one who followed his dad's footsteps.

Another path we can take on his family -- he has an older brother but that brother didn't become a cop. But still, that older brother is the dad's favorite. A contest for dad's attention maybe? (something that is really happening with my friend)

On Lindsey... hmm... it's all vague. I mean, the producers didn't really give out anything on her. She's just a character, a CSI replacement ... and that's it. Need more input from the producers themselves.

CSI:LV has like a slum book information thing on their site. Birthdays, height, weight, schools graduated from, expertise.... but CSI:NY... nada.
 
Catherine is supposed to be from Montana, too? Hmm, that's interesting. I wonder why they didn't bother to come up with something different for Lindsay? I mean, there are 50 states they could have chosen from, and they recycled one from CSI Vegas? That's pretty lame. But then, maybe someone from the show has ties to Montana...

If they're planning to use her as a connection to Vegas, I can't imagine why. Both women are from Montana but don't live there anymore, so unless the case connects NY and Vegas, they shouldn't even meet each other. It might make for an interesting moment when they find out they're from the same state, but I don't think they'd bond over it or anything. It seems like Catherine wanted out of Montana even more than Lindsay--Lindsay strikes me as someone who loves Montana but wanted to experience something different. At this point, I can't see a valid reason for Catherine and Lindsay to be from the same place. *shrug*

It's possible that they plan to take a long time to tell about Lindsay's secret, but it seems dumb to mention it before the season even starts and then drop it for years. :rolleyes: I don't know for sure, but I doubt they kept talking about Sara having a 'dark secret'--you'd get hints that there was something you didn't know, but they didn't have to come out and say "Oh, by the way, she's got a dark secret that we're going to keep, uh, secret." ;) In any case, by advertising the 'secret' for Lindsay, they should really explain things sooner than they did for Sara.

You're right that there really isn't all that much that we know for any of the NY characters, not just Lindsay. Even Danny, who we know the most about, is still largely unknown. It would be nice if the writers would update the bios for the NY characters when the new season starts and give us some more information.

The show's main focus for Lindsay this past season seems to have been assimilation into the team. I don't know why they used the entire season for it, but that's the way it seemed to me. It was only as the season progressed that Lindsay became less the 'rookie' (which is a strange title for someone who's been a CSI for 3 years--Hawkes is a rookie, Lindsay was just a transfer) and really blended into the team. Hopefully season 3 will bring a more balanced show, with good forensics but also better character development. Even if the focus of the show is the science, I don't want to watch people interact if I don't care who they are. There's been some debate about the changes that have been made to Lindsay's character over the course of the season, and they're valid comments, but character inconsistencies aside, I think the writers probably know a good deal about her past. I hope that they put more thought into it than simply recycling different aspects of characters from other CSIs. All that does is reinforce the argument made by some people that NY is unoriginal. :(
 
The CSI site is the least updated site of all. Hahahahah.... we know a lot of bits and pieces of Danny's past but something as simple as his birthdate, we don't know. Lol... the producers made CSI:LV as realistic as possible, going as far as giving them their birthdate, height and weight.

I got the BOZEMAN, MONTANA connection off Wikipedia. When I was attempting to make a 'Danny Messer' entry, I saw it. Catherine's family used to own a ranch there or something. And we all know Danny calls Lindsey 'Montana'. It's hard to believe (on my part anyway) that this is a simple overlooking on the part of the producers. There MUST be a connection (like in almost all CSI:NY episodes). Afterall, NY and LV don't have a crossover ep yet.
 
*de-lurks* ^everything is connected! (you people have interesting theories...i wish TPTB would use one of them)*re-lurks*
 
Oh, I understand that there could be a connection between Lindsay and Catherine, but I just don't see what that connection could be--or why they'd have Lindsay be from the same place just so that they could set up a potential moment in a future episode. :confused:

But I could see the writers going, "Hey, Mac says everything is connected!" and then they could geek out with each other over the fact that the two characters might have something to do with each other. ;)
 
Have you guys talked about Hawkes' background other than Lindsay he has the least known about him? Why did he become a ME? Then why did he finally decide to move to being a CSI?
 
No, we haven't discussed Hawkes yet. His story is definitely one I'd like to know more about. From what we know so far, he was an doctor for a while and then, after losing some patients, he retreated into the morgue. I'm trying to remember exactly what he told Hammerback about why he wanted to be a CSI...I think he said something to the effect that he missed the morgue, but that he was happier out in the field...

Here's a quote from Crimelab.NL: "As Chief Medical Examiner, Dr. Sheldon Hawkes feels perfectly at ease in a room filled with death. Raised in Harlem, Dr. Hawkes was a child prodigy who graduated college at eighteen. By twenty-four, he was a board-licensed surgeon.
Because he was young and socially inexperienced, however, his education could not shield him from the pressure of having to save lives. Two years later, Dr. Hawkes left the operating room, retreating to the safety of the medical examiner's office."

There's still so much to know about him, though...
 
^However, that's the bio from the CBS website, which is not always accurate to what's on screen.
But I do want to learn more about Hawkes? How old do you think he is? As well as the other CSIs.
 
True, but the scene in "GMaCS" supports the idea that he couldn't handle having people die on him. Knowing Hawkes, the deaths made him decide to leave could possibly have been children.

I think Hawkes is in his mid-to-late thirties. If he was in his late 20s when he became a coroner, I can see him being there for close to 10 years. I wonder what made him decide to become a CSI? Maybe seeing bits and pieces of what Mac's team did and thinking, "I'd like to be a part of that." Because he went into the morgue to escape the pain of watching people die and being powerless to prevent it, I don't think being a coroner was ever what he really wanted to do. I think it was his way of using his education to make a difference while he figured out what it was that he really wanted to dedicate his life to. Even if that wasn't what he consciously thought, I think that's what it was--being a coroner was an in-between situation. I wonder how long he'd wanted to be a CSI before he actually filled out the application?
 
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