The Nick Stokes Timeline: Part 2

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I remember him fidling - fideling? - around with the new piece of lazer equipment that scans the scene and inputs it into the computer. He looked like a little kid at Christmas playing with that thing.

I also recall him figuring out that the guy who supposedly killed himself didn't, and that the puddle of blood covered up the original blood spatter from when someone shot him in the head.

Nick was not a lot in this episode but this part was huge...
His theory about the guy being shot in the head... helped a lot... and
Like in some episodes ago (? name) when he thought there were two murderers and not one master and one copy...
His feelings bring a lot to this case...

OT: love Ecklie to give Nick these piece of lazer equipment :p
 
Good for you for sticking to your guns sami. And don't worry, I'm not going to throw things, unless you really want me to. ;) Anyway, you caused me to pull out my DVDs (tee hee) at three in the morning so I could refresh my memory on the episode.

by the time Nick had glomed onto his Walter theory, he became as tunnel-visioned as Caveliere and as snide as Cavaliere was with Nick, Nick lowered himself to his level and matched him wit for wit -- it became competitive. Whether that was Nicky standing up for himself and not being steamed-rolled by others or not -- I saw it as being competitive when neither would back down.
I still don't see it that way at all. Nick was very calm and logical when explaining to Cavaliere why it would be in his best interest to interrogate Walter. I saw Nick really wanting to work with Cavaliere, even at this point, by the friendly way that he greeted him, but Cavaliere wouldn't budge.

I re-watched the banter between the two concerning the lie detector test and yup, still think the two of them were bickering like little boys.
As I said before, if Nick came across that way, it was only because of the tone that Cavaliere was setting.

Nick was really gung ho--even slaped his hands together in a way to focus his new energy. Also when the cops pushed Walter to the ground Nicky didn't say to take it easy with the guy, but to be careful about the sweater! Nick seemed very "pumped" up, not in an obvious way, just I don't know...he got "his man" so to speak.
I loved when he was talking to Walter, "I like you sweater Walter, where'd you get it!?"..."I said where'd you get it" - gave me chills. He was so mad and fierce it was an excellent scene

Ooohh... I have to comment here. I'm actually shocked that so many people found this to be such a "good" Nick scene. The Walter scenes were what initially led me to see Nicky acting as unprofessionally as Cavaliere was being with the boy. He *was* absolutely "mad" and "fierce" with Walter! Nicky was being as much of an a** with Walter as Cavaliere was with the brother. His comments, "Be careful with the sweater. It's evidence." was said purposely in stark disregard to the mis handling of Walter by the burly policemen drove home the fact that Walter was the least of his concerns and Nicky held contempt for him (because in Nicky's mind's eye Walter was looking guiltier by the minute). It was very dehumanizing to a suspect. A crazed, delusional possibly guilty suspect... but a suspect none the less and still innocent until proven guilty. What have we said about Nicky's emotions getting in the way of a case? :D
The only thing that Nick did in this episode that actually did bother me was when he was more concerned with the sweater than the suspect. However, you also have to take into account the fact that Walter was fighting with the officers, which was how he ended up on the ground in the first place.

I saw it as a nice parallel scene by the writers, Nick's interrogation of Walter seen in comparison with Cavaliere's interrogation of the brother. Cavaliere attacks the kid. Nick attacks the bum. They both used the same tactic to try and reach the same confession. I can see how everyone (me included) felt sorry for the brother... because he's "just" a kid (and with that comes protectiveness and children automatically regarded with an air of innocence) -- but what about Walter? In truth, the man was so deranged that his mental compacity was not much more than that of a child. Anyways, I felt bad for Walter and Nicky is guilty of coming down hard on him as much as Cavaliere was of coming down hard on the brother.
When they first took Walter into custody, Nick was harsh with him because he was being uncooperative. Other than that he wasn't any harder on Walter than we've seen him with any other suspect, and he was a lot nicer to him than Cavaliere was to Matt. At least Walter was an adult, delusional or not, and he was wearing a bloody blue sweater. When Cavaliere interrogated Matt they didn't have any evidence to support that he had done it, and given that he had just lost his brother, and as far as they knew he was innocent, yelling at him and accusing him was a pretty harsh tactic to take.

In another parallel, Cavaliere was wrong to reach his guilty verdict of the brother before the evidence presented itself based solely on his police "instincts". It was unscientific. Yet Nicky was also wrong to exclude the brother because his instincts (hope?) didn't want to believe that the brother could have done it. In the end, it was Catherine that provided the hard evidence.
Nick never once excluded the possibility that Matt may have been guilty. He was merely open to other possibilities, while Cavaliere immediately came to the conclusion that Matt had done it and never looked back.

Re: Turning his back on Cavaliere with his final comments, "I'm sorry.... (long pause) That you feel that way". But Nicky *did* turn his back on Cavaliere! That whole response to Cavaliere's demand for an apology was meant for Cavaliere. For the first part, Nick is facing him. For the second, his back is turned. Yes, Nick was returning his attention to the family at that critical pregnant pause (good observation by the way abharding ), but when Nicky chooses to speak the second half with his back to Cavaliere his is clearly dismissing him as unimportant. And his tone was snide. :p All of which I found immature.
Eh, maybe it was a little immature, but Cavaliere so deserved it, I don’t care. :)

Whew! I must be a sadist to post this in Nickyland. :eek:
Lol, as willing as I am to come to Nicky's defense, there have definitely been a few times when I thought he acted like a doofus. ;)
 
Hey sami, nice parallel between Cavaliere vs. kid and Nick vs. Walter! *hands sami soft, chewy chocolate cookie* :D

I see where you're coming from, and I agree that Nick did more or less let his emotions get in the way of the case here. He didn't do anything to jeopardize the investigation, per se; it's all in the attitude. During the last half of the episode, I definitely got the feeling that he became tunnel-visioned on the homeless dude. He was a lot more willing to accept evidence against Walter, and like you pointed out, he was noticably more hostile towards Walter than he was towards the family. I don't believe it was even a conscious choice on his part; there's a difference between how one would normally apprach an adult and a child, and Nick was particularly sympathetic toward this child, who he thought was being bullied by Cavaliere. I mean, Nick's not a saint. He may not even know it, but his emotions were definitely affecting his attitude toward the two suspects.

That said, I do believe Nick was more justified in how he treated Walter than Cavaliere was in how he treated the kid, at least from the forensics perspective. All Cavaliere had on the kid was that he "looked" guilty, but Walter was caught wearing a sweater - which he claimed was his - spattered with the victim's blood. I'm sure if it were the other way around, Nick would've approached each suspect differently.

And while I thought Nicky was very professional at first (didn't anybody see my Lion-tamer vs tempermental pitbull analogy? ) but by the time Nick had glomed onto his Walter theory, he became as tunnel-visioned as Caveliere and as snide as Cavaliere was with Nick, Nick lowered himself to his level and matched him wit for wit -- it became competitive. Whether that was Nicky standing up for himself and not being steamed-rolled by others or not -- I saw it as being competitive when neither would back down.
I gotta disagree here. While Nick and Cavaliere were going their separate ways with the case, they had very different motivations. For Cavaliere, it was about winning and proving his method superior. (Cavaliere: "Sort of kicks the crap out of your "evidence," now, doesn't it?" ) But for Nick, it was all about the boy. He never said or implied anything about getting ahead of Cavaliere; all his counter-arguments were centered around the wellbeing of Matt Hawkins. (Nick: "Did you beat it out of him?" "Say, was an advocate or a parent present at the time of the confession?" etc.) For him it wasn't about trying to look better than Cavaliere; it was about making sure the kid wasn't being bullied, which he believed he probably was. Prejudiced? Yeah, sure. But I wouldn't say that Nick let himself get caught up in the petty competitiveness.

And this goes with how you interpret the ending. If you think Nick was being competitive throughout the episode, then his last remark does come off as childish and snide. But the way I saw it, by "that way" he was referring to Cavaliere's need to gloat, which goes with my interpretation of the rest of the episode that Nick was above such competitiveness. He was sorry that in the end Cavaliere still only cared about being right, an issue he thought was irrelevant compared to the family tragedy taking place in front of him. I guess you could say he was being dismissive, because he kinda was, but it wasn't out of defeat, which would've been immature. I think if there had been overwhelming evidence against the kid and Nick was the one believing him to be guilty from the beginning, he wouldn't have been any happier about the outcome. He was grieving instead over a larger issue - the needless loss of two young, innocent lives, and I don't find that immature at all.

On a side note: Judging by his behavior, Cavaliere was either heartless or cynical enough to have gotten used to the concept of kids killing kids. I tend to believe the latter. I wonder whether Nick will one day become hardened enough to be able to brush off something like this.

ETA: Crap! I'm suppoed to be staying up studying for the finals, and look what I end up doing.

:lol: *sigh* What can I do? I love it here.
 
Good points lemon.

I didn't know how to defend Nick's statement at the end of the episode, and wasn't sure how I felt about it, hence my response above, but I definitely agree with your assessment.
 
Tee hee Ford! I see you finally succumbed and bought those dvds! ;)

And thank you Lemon for the cookie since it's 2am here and I'm starving. It's hard work being the lone voice of dissention.

I'm going to have to rewatch that ending again and ( maybe ) see things in a new light. I was on Nicky's side up until Walter's arrest when I became deeply dishearted with how Walter was treated -- less the physical throwing to the ground then the sweater comment. It just seemed so callous. That has colored my view with the rest of the eppy. That was not Nick's best moment.

He's human. 98% of the other times I regard him as above the average male species. :D
 
I'm going to have to rewatch that ending again and ( maybe ) see things in a new light.

I hope you change your mind on your own accord and not becuase of what people have said here.. :)

Off Topic: All this talk involving Walter, the movie Stand By Me keeps popping in to my head, I loved Wil Wheaton (Walter) in that movie :D
 
Wow, sami you HAVE to keep posting in here! You're bringing out the troops in HOARDS! Lovin' it! :D

This post from lemon totaly summed it up for me. In fact, I was thinking the last line myself, and almost literally word for word- totally spooked me out! :eek:

"And this goes with how you interpret the ending. If you think Nick was being competitive throughout the episode, then his last remark does come off as childish and snide. But the way I saw it, by "that way" he was referring to Cavaliere's need to gloat, which goes with my interpretation of the rest of the episode that Nick was above such competitiveness. He was sorry that in the end Cavaliere still only cared about being right, an issue he thought was irrelevant compared to the family tragedy taking place in front of him. I guess you could say he was being dismissive, because he kinda was, but it wasn't out of defeat, which would've been immature. I think if there had been overwhelming evidence against the kid and Nick was the one believing him to be guilty from the beginning, he wouldn't have been any happier about the outcome. He was grieving instead over a larger issue - the needless loss of two young, innocent lives, and I don't find that immature at all."

Now, you know what? Nick was definitely a little edgier in this episode. No doubt about it. But I think he had good reason to be, considering the nature of the case... and if that's as "snide" as he gets, then I think I can handle it! :D
 
I hope you change your mind on your own accord and not becuase of what people have said here..

But of course I'm going to change my mind because of what I've read here! Not because I've been brow-beaten into submission (I'm too hard-headed for that ;)) but because I'm not so stubborn that I can't appreciate insightful observation when I see it. Mostly, Lemon and abharding's comments bring to light some things I hadn't considered. I really liked Lemon's analysis of the difference in motivation between Caveliere and Nicky (concern for proving who's right vs concern for boy). Her breakdown made sense. Though I will continue to think that yes, Caveliere set the snide tone, but Nick continued it and presented his arguments in the same light. :lol:

abharding , I really liked her analysis of Nick looking to the family scene and how that was more important than proving anyone right. My memory of the ending was that Nick was walking down the hallway head down reading a report when Cavaliere came up to him. And the subsequent backtalking. I didn't even think about how the previous family scene could have come into play. Going back to see if it does and if that changes things for me.

On a totally different subject: concerning the next eppy "Spark of Life", the only Nick-centric rememberance I have about this eppy was that it was the return of his full head of hair. I got nothing else. Sorry Baba . :lol:
 
The only thing that Nick did in this episode that actually did bother me was when he was more concerned with the sweater than the suspect. However, you also have to take into account the fact that Walter was fighting with the officers, which was how he ended up on the ground in the first place.

Well, lets remember what Nick's job is. To analyze the physical evidence to see if it can help determine who might or might not have commited a crime. I think that part if it that Nick (at least at this point) tends to trust cops (Cavalier is an exception - one of the resaons I think this case stands out in people's mind) so he wasn't to worried about the cops hurting Walter. Damaging the sweater however might be something the cops would do, if they didn't know that it was a important part of a murder case.

One of the good things about it was that Nick and Warrick realized that blood spatter on the sweater could be in important part of the case, and the spatter was in the end what cleared Walter and lead to phsyical evidince that convinced Nick that Matt was guilty.

I am not saying that Nick was in the right...I think it was a somewhat callous thing to say - just trying to see his point of view.
 
This post from lemon totaly summed it up for me. In fact, I was thinking the last line myself, and almost literally word for word- totally spooked me out! :eek:
Gmta, Baba. ;)

Well, lets remember what Nick's job is. To analyze the physical evidence to see if it can help determine who might or might not have commited a crime. I think that part if it that Nick (at least at this point) tends to trust cops (Cavalier is an exception - one of the resaons I think this case stands out in people's mind) so he wasn't to worried about the cops hurting Walter. Damaging the sweater however might be something the cops would do, if they didn't know that it was a important part of a murder case.
I agree. It was not his place to tell the cops how to apprehend the suspect; he was there to collect the evidence. The attitude was a little uncharacteristic for him, but technically it's not like he failed to do anything he was supposed to do. And no, I'm not biased at all. :p

"Spark of Life": I don't remember Nick's part at all, so I'll just sit back and watch. :)
 
abharding, I agree, but as you said, Nick was still a bit callous. :)

myfuturecsi, do you like cats or something? ;)

So where are we? Does anyone have anything to add about either "Compulsion" or "Spark of Life?"
 
abharding, I agree, but as you said, Nick was still a bit callous. :)

myfuturecsi, do you like cats or something? ;)

So where are we? Does anyone have anything to add about either "Compulsion" or "Spark of Life?"

Cats, yuck! Can't stand them!!! ;) :lol:

Was 'Spark of Life' after this one..I thought for some reason it was earlier on in the season. But I don't have the DVD collection, so I could be wrong.
 
Was 'Spark of Life' after this one..I thought for some reason it was earlier on in the season. But I don't have the DVD collection, so I could be wrong.

Yes, "Spark of Life" came after "Compulsion." It aired in March or something because that's around when I started watching the show. There's already been a little discussion about it, if you look back, but it's gotten kind of mixed up with the "Compulsion" discussion.
 
Okay, we'll if no one minds..we can move on because 4 x 4 is coming on and so is....GRAVE DANGER..happy dance..

Now what did Nick do in this episode because I remember that Greg was primarily featured in it because he freaked out when the woman opened her eyes.
 
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