Season 7 *Spoiler Lab* Discussion & Posting - Part 3

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Regarding Warrick.

From what I read about 7x17 Fallen Idols, he has already filed a divorce in this episode. He says he is divorced on papers, but he doesn't consider it official until her stuff is out of his garage. I have no idea if this part will be edited out.
 
EricaSJ said:
It's only natural that the younger CSIs get upset with Catherine since they must feel betrayed after finding out they have been deceived. They are definitely not to blame. What I find most interesting is actually fans' responses towards Catherine after that "new team" clip was posted. She was seen as a total bi*ch that kisses Keppler's a$$ and lies to her partners. And now with the new clip posted, people are giving excuses for their earlier bashing.
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Criticizing Cath's actions and bashing her character are two completely different things, and I only saw the former in this thread. It's odd that you are ok with the CSIs feeling betrayed by her, but it's not ok that the fans had the same reaction. Given the information we had at the time AND the memory of season 5 (among other things), it is not surprising at all that some folks assumed this was all on Cath.

Personally, I am relieved that she is not completely at fault for this. I like the show better when all of the CSIs are working together to bring the real bad guys down.
 
I'm very aware that they are two different things and that not all people who gave negative responses were bashing. While some fans did make good points when criticizing a character, I also saw irrational bashing by others going around. Or maybe, our definitions of bashing are different. It was fine by me that some fans took it badly, but as you said, criticizing and bashing are different things and some have confused one with the other. At least in my opinion.
 
I hope I didn't offend you, Erica. I reread both threads (this one and the Sweet Jane one), and I see a lot of criticism of both Sara and Catherine. Some of it I agree with, and some of it I don't, but I honestly don't see actual bashing (I have seen that in other threads, so I can understand where you're coming from). I guess we'll have to agree to disagree there.

Now that I've seen more of the clips from the next episode, I'm pretty psyched to see how it all plays out. I'm wondering if there will be fallout and how long it will last. And if Grissom will know immediately that something has broken up his team again or if it will be resolved by then, or if he will just be oblivous to it all.
 
brass_lives said:
EricaSJ said:
It's only natural that the younger CSIs get upset with Catherine since they must feel betrayed after finding out they have been deceived. They are definitely not to blame. What I find most interesting is actually fans' responses towards Catherine after that "new team" clip was posted. She was seen as a total bi*ch that kisses Keppler's a$$ and lies to her partners. And now with the new clip posted, people are giving excuses for their earlier bashing.
Click to expand...

Criticizing Cath's actions and bashing her character are two completely different things, and I only saw the former in this thread. It's odd that you are ok with the CSIs feeling betrayed by her, but it's not ok that the fans had the same reaction. Given the information we had at the time AND the memory of season 5 (among other things), it is not surprising at all that some folks assumed this was all on Cath.

Personally, I am relieved that she is not completely at fault for this. I like the show better when all of the CSIs are working together to bring the real bad guys down.
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I still don't get why everyone is so hard on catherine in season 5....she was a better supervisor than grissom, and I thought warrick and nick were somewhat hesitant to have catherine as their supervisor, and that led to conflict, but everyone blamed catherine. If anything, she was trying to protect and help her fellow workers. As I said before, people are only reacting to her, because she is an agressive female, and it isn't a 'society' norm.

I don't know how anyone would jump to the conclusion that catherine would completely turn against her team, there is no indication of this. It looks like nick doesn't trust cath very much in this ep, but I will wait to see the ep...
 
I don't think that Cath was a bad supervisor, she just handles things differently than Grissom, you can't compare them.

After watching the Redrum promo I understand Catherine, but I also understand why Nick is so angry. In my opinion Nick is a family guy, the team is his family and so he didn't like the team split in Season 5 and not because Catherine was his supervisor. And I think he has a problem that Cath and Keppler try to keep a secret from them, because it's not so long ago that Grissom hid the tape from Nick. I completely understand why Nick is so angry about this.
 
well that clip put a whole new light on things for me, I was doubting Catherine's reasoning behind lying to the others but now I see she has no choice, and the others get upset or mistrusting of her and Keppler, I cannot blame them. I just hope it all works out in the end.
 
i mean...she could have fought a little harder, but now that she's doing what the sheriff told her to do i think nobody can blame her! on the other side it's understandable that the others are upset and feel betrayed
 
xfcanadian said:
I still don't get why everyone is so hard on catherine in season 5....she was a better supervisor than grissom
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Wow. If you honestly think that Cath did nothing wrong in season 5, then I'm not sure that anything I can say will help you understand my POV, but I will take a stab at it. Mind you, I'm not trying to change your mind, and I don't intend this as character bashing, because for the most part, I do enjoy Catherine's character. Also, I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with a strong minded female, regardless of what is (supposedly) expected of women these days. Some of my favorite people (including the fictional Sara and Cath) fit that mold.

Let's see...Catherine was assigned as supervisor of swing shift at the very end of the Mea Culpa episode.

She did a good job of reprimanding Warrick on her first day. (No Humans Involved)

Next was Who Shot Sherlock - Ecklie tells her that she needs to prioritize due to budget restraints. She ignores this because she trusts that Nick and Warrick can find out the real cause of death. They do. She tells them to hide the (expensive) evidence of their experiment. Of course, Ecklie finds out anyway. Personally, I believe she did the right thing. In real life, though, she probably would have gotten more than just a verbal warning.

Snakes - She sexually harrassed Nick by rubbing his head. (J/K ;) - and don't I wish it was me!)

Nesting Dolls - This is where it all started to go wrong. And, yes, I know, plenty of people will start pointing fingers at Sara. I know, she should have controlled her temper. I'm not arguing that. But Catherine, as a supervisor, should have stopped the conversation before it escalated to a hallway argument. At the very least, she should have asked to discuss it in her (brand new and shiny!) office. She could have prevented the whole incident if she had cut Sara short and escorted her out of the interview room.

King Baby - Cath is insecure and unhappy about Grissom "crashing" her crime scene. It's funny because someone was talking about how Cath was completely in the right during the After the Show episode, but Cath didn't like it so much when Ecklie took her case and gave it to Grissom. She was also completely rude to both Grissom and Sofia for no reason other than the fact that she felt left out, even though they explained repeatedly that it was never their intention.

Then she loses her photo evidence. Nick did the same thing later in Rashomama. I don't blame her for that since the crime scene should have been secured by the officers at the scene. She ends the episode by apologizing to Grissom (which was needed). But in the very next episode (Big Middle), she snaps at him again for being at her crime scene.

Later, she seems to over-manage the money counters. (Really irritating if you've ever had a manager like that.) Then she flirts with, bets with and agrees to go to dinner with her direct report. Mind you, I enjoy Cath and Warrick's flirting, but this is still inappropriate. Of course, it's TV, and I do love a good ship, so I'm totally willing to overlook it. :D But the betting thing bothers me a little because Warrick was a gambling addict. I know, it's not money, but really, find another way to be playful.

Compulsion - I loved Cath this episode. Where had she been all season!?! She continues to be her old self until...

Weeping Willows. In this one, she hides the fact that A. she was at the crime scene and B. she knows the prime suspect. She even gets one of the witnesses (bartender) to fail to disclose that she was there. I guess it's continuinity, but whenever Cath is personally involved in a case, she almost always does the wrong thing. She usually gets caught, too! It's almost funny. But as a supervisor, it was bad on so many levels. She's supposed to set the example.

All that (points up) is why I was massively relieved when I saw the clip they just added to the Keppler site. And also why I can totally understand why the young turks don't exactly trust her in the next episode.
 
brass_lives said:
I hope I didn't offend you, Erica. I reread both threads (this one and the Sweet Jane one), and I see a lot of criticism of both Sara and Catherine. Some of it I agree with, and some of it I don't, but I honestly don't see actual bashing (I have seen that in other threads, so I can understand where you're coming from). I guess we'll have to agree to disagree there.
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No you didn't offend me at all. Actually I enjoyed reading most of your posts, and I appreciate your understanding. :)
 
I think it's funny that all of the people freaking out about people getting upset over what Cath is doing all have nice little Cath avators. Not that that's bad; we all must stand up for out favorite characters, but doesn't that create a bias?

So, before I give my opinion, I'll say that Cath is ok on my list. She isn't one of my favorites, but I like her fine.

Anyways, I don't like whats going on. I do see things differently now that we know she had people above her making her, but I still think that if Grissom was there, it would be totally different. I'm sure that he might have to give in, but he would have put up one hell of a fight (in his mellow, cool way of course) and even then, I think that he would make sure the rest of the team is handled correctly, not like what I saw in that other clip where Catherine says "Nothing I can talk about" to Sara. That obviously SCREAMS I'm doing something secretive, and then that gives them every right in the world to be suspicious! I thought the goal was to keep them in the dark about it, and to me Catherine seemed to be flaunting the fact that she knew something that Sara didn't.

I may be wrong about that, but I do believe she could have said something else to Sara, like "just working on my case" or "running an experiment". Am I the only one that thinks that?

Ok, well, like I said, I'm fine with her character. I've always respected her as a strong, single mother who is kick-ass at her job, but there are many things she does (or the writers have her do) that pushes my buttons.

About Warrick- it was just a matter of time before that "marriage" ended... that was just a stupid thing that the writers did in my opinion. It could have worked out nicely, especially the reason why Warrick got married so quick like that, it was a good insight on the character but.. they just didn't seem to know where to go with it and decided not to mention it and hope we forgot. Hahaha.. silly gooses.

Alright, so that's about it. I'll go ahead and go so that everyone can give their opinions on my opinion (in a nice way I shuld hope).

And, I'm not giving up on this storyline.. I see potential but... yeah.

Oh, and Brass gives CPR in Fallen Idol. Just a fun fact I thought I'd add. (Well, thats what was written, who knows if it will actually happen).

Later <3
 
LOL I'm not one bit hesitated to say that I'm a huge Cath fan and that I'm very much biased (I have used avatars of other characters, though :D). See, I defend my favorite character when people get upset with her, just like all people do with their own favorite characters and it's perfectly fine by me that there are people who criticize, or even dislike my favorite character. There are characters that I don't like that much, too, so I totally understand where people come from. I don't know about other Cath fans, but what I had been uncomfortable with was the bashing, not the criticizing (again, depends on one's own definitions of the two terms) and I do appreciate most of the posts here. Really, I'm not as mad as you might think. I just think people's reactions are interesting, and I don't mean that in a totally negative way. Just...interesting. :)
 
brass_lives said:
EricaSJ said:
It's only natural that the younger CSIs get upset with Catherine since they must feel betrayed after finding out they have been deceived. They are definitely not to blame. What I find most interesting is actually fans' responses towards Catherine after that "new team" clip was posted. She was seen as a total bi*ch that kisses Keppler's a$$ and lies to her partners. And now with the new clip posted, people are giving excuses for their earlier bashing.
Click to expand...

Criticizing Cath's actions and bashing her character are two completely different things, and I only saw the former in this thread. It's odd that you are ok with the CSIs feeling betrayed by her, but it's not ok that the fans had the same reaction. Given the information we had at the time AND the memory of season 5 (among other things), it is not surprising at all that some folks assumed this was all on Cath.

Personally, I am relieved that she is not completely at fault for this. I like the show better when all of the CSIs are working together to bring the real bad guys down.
Click to expand...

Oh spare me please. Cath haters look for any and every excuse and reason to crucify her. Each character has their faults and every single one of them has made questionable decisions but only Catherine is put under the microscope and scrutinized with such intensity. :rolleyes:

BTW, Catherine didn't lose the camera with the photos in "King Baby", it was STOLEN by the photographer who broke into the crime scene by pretending to be a cop. Big difference. :rolleyes:
 
Wow....I don't know why people are becoming so heated over this. All I have to say is, I was so happy to see a women in charge of the team for once. And I mean in charge, telling people what to do and where to go. It was pretty cool. It doesn't happen very often and when it does, I happen to enjoy it.

But the one time that Catherine is REALLY the leader, her leadership is questioned the second epoisode in? What kind of crap is that? What, is Grissom, a man, gonna have to come behind her and clean up her mess? I'm pretty much waiting for it to happen.

Sorry, I know I'm kind of ranting but I mean, come on. Look at most crime dramas. Almost all male leaders with exceptions to Cold Case and some episodes of Law and Order: SVU. Why can't they just have a women as intelligent as Catherine go through a couple episodes without screwing something up?

I was actually surprised to see Nick as angry as he was though. Do you think the rest of the team is gonna side with him on this whole "We're a team now. The four of us."??
 
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