Season 12 Spoiler Lab Discussion Part 2

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I meant the writers picking on Nick, not characters, just to clarify.

I hope its just a one scene in one ep type of thing. Otherwise, its out of character for her. When she caused the lab explosion and realized she did, she didn't try to blame someone else for their mistakes, she took full responsibility. Why should this be any different? Haskell wouldn't have been in Vegas if it hadn't been for her and therefore, Nick would have never had any involvement in it, Brass wouldn't have hidden evidence and Cath wouldn't haven't gotten demoted. It seems highly illogical for her to blame Nick solely when she should take responsibility for her own mistakes. I will be highly disappointed if she doesn't take any responsibility and only blames Nick.

If what was said about Nick having something to do with Cath's exit is due to the tension of her blaming Nick for getting demoted, then I would say its something that will definitely destroy any semblance of a friendship they have had. And that I think would be a HUGE mistake on the writers' part.
 
I did know what you meant about "picking on" Nick. I don't think TPTB are doing that.

I looked back and I don't see where it's indicated Catherine will leave because she blames Nick for her demotion. While that may be the case, it may also not have anything to do with it. Unless I misunderstood or missed the information entirely. I also don't see why Catherine would blame herself for the entire Haskell fiasco when other people had a part in it. Especially when Nick defied her instructions and she was his superior.
 
GregNickRyanFan said:
Haskell wouldn't have been in Vegas if it hadn't been for her and therefore, Nick would have never had any involvement in it, Brass wouldn't have hidden evidence and Cath wouldn't haven't gotten demoted.
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As someone said when we played the blame game before, we can trace this back even further (to ridiculous lengths, then we can just laugh about it and not stress out :D).

I agree that Cath shouldn't hold a long-term grudge against Nick. I hope we're just getting too worked up about these little tidbits because that's all we have, and it turns out to be not so bad after all.

I'm glad to hear something about Morgan/Ecklie. I was wondering how they'd interact, and I'm glad to hear that Ecklie's improvements are sticking and being noticed. :) I'm looking forward to seeing more of him after last season.
 
Perfect Anomaly said:
I just personally don't see how something as huge as the Haskell thing can go down where both Catherine and Nick have some responsibility without tension. It just doesn't seem very realistic to me that after everything they'd be fine with each other and just go on as if nothing happened just because Ray is gone. Catherine is getting demoted and even if it is misguided it's a very human thing to do to try and find fault for that. Again, Ray's gone so the next person in line is Nick. I don't think anyone is "picking on" Nick at all. Just because there's an indication that there's tension doesn't mean their relationship is going to be completely destroyed forever. To me it's not an all or nothing scenario.
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I agree with this completely. They can't just blow over the ramifications of the whole Raskall debacle; the finale was a pivitol episode in character development, IMO. And conflict is what makes drama interesting. There was absolutely no conflict when Langston joined the team, and it was booorrrring.

I don't believe it's OOC for Catherine; she takes a lot of things personally. She asked Nick to do something in LA and he didn't do it. The outcome may or may not have been different, but she probably believes it might have. And maybe Nick is suspended for not following her orders; that's insubordination, right? When you 'disobey a lawful order' from your superior. I seriously doubt this conflict will continue through her exit arc, but it could allow for some interesting interaction between these two characters. Some of Catherine and Grissom's best scenes were when they disagreed over something. But, I'm sure Cath and Nick will kiss and make up in the end.

I'm more curious about what happens to BRASS. We haven't heard a thing about him, and he's a major culprit in this scenario. His actions will have to be dealt with in some way, eventually. Will he and Marg settle things over scotch? That would seem very much in character, and would make for a great final scene between them. :)
 
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WOW. I didn't check for a few hrs and there's two more pages!

Sad that there's finally news about Morgan and it's overpowered by this whole Cath/Nick thing. WHICH I can't believe either! I know I know people said we could go back miles with the blame game but it started with Cath bringing Haskell in the first place LOL. She's the supervisor. Everything that happened was under her responsibility regardless.

I just don't want "Fight Club" between the two period. :(
 
I think Nick has a lot to answer for. After all he and Ray ran around a fair ground with guns out without any contact with the local police. Nick was apprehended and taken into custody, and while he was release without any charges they very well could have come down on him like a tonne of bricks. I think, while Catherine has some responsibility, she also has a right to be pissed at Nick for the way he acted in LA.

Also, I think maybe Nick may have had some time off, either at his own choice or at the request of the LVPD, to get his head together. This is not the same Nick we had back in the early days. Can you imagine Nick from season 6 or 7 gunning down a 16 year old kid (even if it was Beiber) and not having some sort of tearful session of regret? I think Nick is on the edge and I think that will come in to play with the story line of DB coming in and Catherine eventually leaving.

This is not a Nick slam as he is my favourite character, but he certainly has a lot of issues that he needs to deal with, and to day I don't think he has.
 
Yes, Nick was no Boy Scout in all of this, but it doesn't change the fact that Catherine was the boss of Grave.

So no matter what the responsibility falls on her. Now Nick disobeyed, BUT Catherine never should have brought Ray (I was just going to call him Haskell :lol: ) to LA in the first place.

She never should have taken Haskell out of prison, then none of LA would have happened.

Now I don't know how Nick doesn't know D.B. when the season starts, but remember there is going to be a time jump in the show. Something like a few months, wasn't it? And so how does Nick not know someone for a few months or whatever this time jump is. :shifty:

I'm not happy about Catherine blaming Nick for what SHE did. I don't want know tension between them, but that wouldn't be real.

But please, please don't make me hate Catherine or be pissed at her like you've done for Brass. I still can't believe Brass did what he did. How am I ever going to look him 'in the eye' again? :lol:

Man, I need to stop reading spoilers, it does nothing, but PISS ME OFF. :scream:

Glad to hear a little rumor about Morgan. Man, now there was tension I was hoping there'd be, between her and her Father. It could have been fun. :lol:

You know, the next time we're all desperate for a spoiler, maybe we should just keep our 'mouthes' shut. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

ETA: Donna, I'd really like to 'smack' you for 'slamming' Nick, :lol::lol:(j/K) but what you said makes sense. His 'absence' could be do to him being forced to deal with his issues or something. Didn't think about that.

That could be a definite scenerio.
 
Catherine is being demoted so she is being punished for her part in this as well as Nick's part in this because she was his supervisor. I don't see how people, even rabid Nick fans, can rationalize that she shouldn't be pissed at him for disobeying a direct order that ultimately lead to Ray murdering Haskell. She can't hold Nick's hand and be with him every moment to make sure he makes the right decisions. That is on Nick. She takes the heat because it happened on her watch, so to speak, but she has every right in the world to think Nick is partially responsible for her demotion. Catherine's part in it in the beginning doesn't negate any responsibility Nick had once Haskell was there and escaped. Really, they both should've been canned, but obviously that won't work for a TV show.
 
Perfect Anomaly said:
Catherine is being demoted so she is being punished for her part in this as well as Nick's part in this because she was his supervisor. I don't see how people, even rabid Nick fans, can rationalize that she shouldn't be pissed at him for disobeying a direct order that ultimately lead to Ray murdering Haskell. She can't hold Nick's hand and be with him every moment to make sure he makes the right decisions. That is on Nick. She takes the heat because it happened on her watch, so to speak, but she has every right in the world to think Nick is partially responsible for her demotion. Catherine's part in it in the beginning doesn't negate any responsibility Nick had once Haskell was there and escaped. Really, they both should've been canned, but obviously that won't work for a TV show.
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Nick's actions did not ultimately lead to Ray murdering Haskell. That would be Catherine taking Haskell out of prison, in the first place. Then he wouldn't have been able to stab Langston, there wouldn't have been a trial, and Hasell wouldn't have escaped.

Sorry, Nick did wrong, but she can't blame him for HER actions. She's the one who brought Langston to LA. Langston should NEVER have been brought there or allowed anywhere near the Haskell case. So sorry, can't blame Nick.

Langston disobeyed Catherine many times and she should have known better.

Catherine, herself should have made sure that Langston's ass got on the plane. But yes, Nick should have sat on Langston, but they got a lead and ran with it. And, obviously, Nick is being punished too as he seems to be gone a few months.

Not to mention that Catherine 'cowboyed up' when she went over Brass' head to get Haskell out of prison.

So to blame Nick is wrong, human nature, yes :), but wrong.
 
To blame Nick for the entire thing is wrong. To be pissed at him for his part in it - which there is no doubt he did play a part - is not wrong, IMO. If you're going to say Catherine's actions led to Haskell being murdered you have to say Nick's did as well. Catherine brought him to Vegas, but she was not directly responsible for his escape. Catherine brought Langston to LA, but she ordered him to leave and ordered Nick to make sure he was not left alone. Nick was directly responsible for disobeying an order and that lead directly to Ray having the opportunity to be alone with Haskell and murder him. The whole "Poor Nick is being mistreated" thing just doesn't work for me based on his actions.
 
Perfect Anomaly said:
To blame Nick for the entire thing is wrong. To be pissed at him for his part in it - which there is no doubt he did play a part - is not wrong, IMO. If you're going to say Catherine's actions led to Haskell being murdered you have to say Nick's did as well. Catherine brought him to Vegas, but she was not directly responsible for his escape. Catherine brought Langston to LA, but she ordered him to leave and ordered Nick to make sure he was not left alone. Nick was directly responsible for disobeying an order and that lead directly to Ray having the opportunity to be alone with Haskell and murder him. The whole "Poor Nick is being mistreated" thing just doesn't work for me based on his actions.
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I have never said 'poor Nick is being mistreated' and no one else has, either.

Nick was wrong to go with Langston to find Haskell, still doesn't change the fact that Ray NEVER should have been in LA in the first place. Should not have been anywhere near that case. Thus putting Nick in a situation he shouldn't have been in.

Nick wasn't responsible for Haskell escape, either, but again, Haskell would never have been in court if Catherine didn't take him out of prison.

So sorry, Catherine put herself in this situation and has no one to blame, but herself. As the supervisor of grave, she knew better than to let Langston be a part of the investigation after he became a vicitm.

Nick still did wrong, but wouldn't have been put in that situation if Catherine did her job.

No one on the team is innocent in all of this, but Langston murdering Haskell, that's all on Ray.

Sems to me that, by what we're reading is Nick being punished more than Catherine. Don't know for sure, so he'll get his comeuppance, but that still doesn't change the fact that Catherine can't put the blame on him.

And I'd say that if it was Sara or Greg, too.
 
I didn't mean anyone directly said that, but the vibe I'm getting is definitely one of "Poor Nick." Nick is a big boy and he made his bed just like everyone else did and I can't honestly say this was all Catherine's fault even though other people did stuff wrong.
 
Perfect Anomaly said:
I didn't mean anyone directly said that, but the vibe I'm getting is definitely one of "Poor Nick." Nick is a big boy and he made his bed just like everyone else did and I can't honestly say this was all Catherine's fault even though other people did stuff wrong.
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No, I'll agree that it isn't all Catherine's fault, but she can't blame Nick or anyone else for the situation she is in.

Just like Nick being punished and looks like being suspended is all on him and he can't blame anyone else either.

I don't want Catherine or Nick in this situation, it sucks. And I didn't want Catherine's swan song to be her getting a demotion and that might cause her leaving.

That is just totally wrong.

However, it seems to me, by lack of spoilers that is, that Brass, who really did commit a crime and did something wrong, is the one who is going to 'skate free' (ugh, what am I trying to say) and be punished.

Ok there is a term I'm trying to say here, but can't think of it.
 
Speedystokesgirl said:
Sems to me that, by what we're reading is Nick being punished more than Catherine. Don't know for sure, so he'll get his comeuppance, but that still doesn't change the fact that Catherine can't put the blame on him.
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All the spoiler said was that Catherine was pissed at Nick. How does that mean he is being punished more? How do we know he doesn't choose to take a leave of absence in the wake of all things Raskell and that is why he hasn't met DB yet?

Nick is assistant supervisor, so due to the fact he did help Ray in LA, as a supervisor position, just like Catherine, he would receive some punishment. He should have known better as being a supervisor that Ray was a problem and might act off the cuff.
 
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