Season 11 "Spoiler Lab" Discussion

[Grissom rules]

If I were Eric, I'd use the 'There is practically no one on this Earth who doesn't like my character' card :lol:

:guffaw:Indeed, my friend. Indeed.

I hate being the Negative Nancy of the forums but I don't particularly like Greg's character. I love Eric, I think he could do a lot more as an actor on the show but Greg not so much.

Greg's character is a complex as a piece of paper. Why would the writers risk giving a character a whole storyline when they don't even know who the character is? The whole Fannysmackin' arc was great for Greg but still left me wondering, "Who is Greg?", and sadly, I don't really care to know who he is compared to LF's family drama or Nicky's new role as assistant supervisor.

Another problem with Greg is his lack of charm that he used to have. I used to love the Greggo that was cracking jokes and the comic relief but now...I don't know who he is. He's not the crazy lab rat that listens to Blackflag but he isn't the supervisor of the night shift either. Greg's matured but he's almost lost himself in the process. I don't know where he fits in the show's dynamic and I'm pretty sure the writers must feel the same way.

I kind of agree with you.As much I love Greg he isn't the same anymore(unforunately)Back in CSI's early years he was great but in the later seasons he seemed to forget his sense of humor.

 

[DragonFriend95]

:guffaw:Indeed, my friend. Indeed.

I hate being the Negative Nancy of the forums but I don't particularly like Greg's character. I love Eric, I think he could do a lot more as an actor on the show but Greg not so much.

Greg's character is a complex as a piece of paper. Why would the writers risk giving a character a whole storyline when they don't even know who the character is? The whole Fannysmackin' arc was great for Greg but still left me wondering, "Who is Greg?", and sadly, I don't really care to know who he is compared to LF's family drama or Nicky's new role as assistant supervisor.

Another problem with Greg is his lack of charm that he used to have. I used to love the Greggo that was cracking jokes and the comic relief but now...I don't know who he is. He's not the crazy lab rat that listens to Blackflag but he isn't the supervisor of the night shift either. Greg's matured but he's almost lost himself in the process. I don't know where he fits in the show's dynamic and I'm pretty sure the writers must feel the same way.

I kind of agree with you.As much I love Greg he isn't the same anymore(unforunately)Back in CSI's early years he was great but in the later seasons he seemed to forget his sense of humor.

I'm not that great at character analysis, but I'll give it a shot . I think in Season 1-3 he was the comic relief, the crazy lab tech that everybody loved. Then after the lab explosion he became more serious, still jokey but a bit more responsible and sombre, understandable since he had nearly died. Then after he became a CSI from 5-8 he was still being seen as the new CSI, the rookie that although more serious was still young and jokey.

Then after Fannysmackin' he matured even more, being seen as one of the grown ups like Nick or Warrick instead of the little lab tech, even though it's only to an extent. When Ray came on Greg merged into the background, mainly because they were giving all the interesting plotlines to everyone else because they were new (Ray/Riley) or later in Season 10 when they got new jobs (Catherine/Nick) Sara coming back didn't improve things since any time left was mostly given to her, which means that there's been little to no room for any character development with Greg.

I mean, there were rumours about Greg getting a new job, and he expressed his frustration in the premiere, but it was dropped in favour of the whole Ray/Jekyll and even possibly Hodges/Wendy storyline. I think if tptb just stop and realise how much they're screwing with Greg they might actually improve on his character, instead of leaving us wondering just who the hell he is anymore :shifty:

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

I don't know where he fits in the show's dynamic and I'm pretty sure the writers must feel the same way.

Well, the writers did it to themselves. :lol: (not to mention to the character and the character's fans).

But this is what we Greg fans have been saying for a long time. We need to know more about Greg and we need a chance to see his personality return. And as far as Greg goes, for the most part, fanfic writers do it MUCH better.

Somewhere along the way, the show's writers seem to have for the most part lost the ability to write team scenes (there are a few exceptions of course, always are)... to include all the CSIs in one scene... and instead shift their focus on one or two or sometimes three characters solely (and sometimes its even guest characters who get the majority of the scenes lol). I think this could possibly be the REAL (main) REASON behind the decline in ratings (there are other factors too like cast changes and the writers' strike, etc). If they could just start writing the show as brilliantly as in the old days, maybe some of those fans who have strayed away will return and maybe there would be a boost in the ratings. I know the ratings are still at an acceptable level, but they have been a lot lower compared to past seasons. We need our show to get back up on top (the very very top) again.

This show used to focus on the how and we were told by Grissom (I think) that its not a CSI's job to find out the why, only the how. But as of late, this show seems to have been more focused on the why. One case in point: Dr. Jekyll. All we needed to know, all the CSIs needed to know is the who and the how. The audience didn't need the sob story of "oh this guy is killing people because Daddy didn't pay him enough attention". Really? Come on! A) In the context of this show, the why is irrelevant. B) Weakest motive EVER! :lol: This serial killer who could have been really interesting was reduced to a big whiny baby who was all upset cause his Daddy ignored him. Am I the only one who was extremely annoyed with Jekyll's motive? :lol:

I enjoy seeing how much Greg has grown and matured, but even mature people can crack jokes now and then and be silly. Practically no one on the show is even silly anymore. The show is taking itself way too serious as of late and its become way too dark. Open up a window once in a while and let a little sunshine in is all I'm saying. :lol:

BUT- There is one possible ray of sunshine coming our way. The addition of a new person on tptb's team. The guy from Numbers. I enjoyed Numbers and for the most part had no complaints whatsoever about that show. So, maybe hopefully this guy will be good for our show. :fingers crossed:

As for Wendy, I'm gonna miss the character, but she was sorely underused this past season. I just hope they write a decent exit for her and that she doesn't just simply disappear like Sofia did. :lol:

Still trying to keep hope alive.

I'm not that great at character analysis, but I'll give it a shot . I think in Season 1-3 he was the comic relief, the crazy lab tech that everybody loved. Then after the lab explosion he became more serious, still jokey but a bit more responsible and sombre, understandable since he had nearly died. Then after he became a CSI from 5-8 he was still being seen as the new CSI, the rookie that although more serious was still young and jokey.

Then after Fannysmackin' he matured even more, being seen as one of the grown ups like Nick or Warrick instead of the little lab tech, even though it's only to an extent. When Ray came on Greg merged into the background, mainly because they were giving all the interesting plotlines to everyone else because they were new (Ray/Riley) or later in Season 10 when they got new jobs (Catherine/Nick) Sara coming back didn't improve things since any time left was mostly given to her, which means that there's been little to no room for any character development with Greg.

I mean, there were rumours about Greg getting a new job, and he expressed his frustration in the premiere, but it was dropped in favour of the whole Ray/Jekyll and even possibly Hodges/Wendy storyline. I think if tptb just stop and realise how much they're screwing with Greg they might actually improve on his character, instead of leaving us wondering just who the hell he is anymore :shifty:

I agree with everything you said with the exception of the part about Riley. She was very under-developed character wise due to bad timing on introducing her character with a new leading man coming in. Most of the focus was put on the new leading man and Riley was sort of lost in the shuffle. I did enjoy each and every scene she had with Greg though. I thought they had a great connection and it could have been an interesting friendship that could have developed there. Some of Greg's humor came back when Riley was present. Also, I do think the thing about Greg's new job was just his undercover stint in that club and tptb just made it sound like something more major and long-lasting. :lol:

But wasn't there a Ray thing that was supposed to happen too that didn't? They said at one point that Ray was gonna mention to Nick that he was married, but estranged from his wife. Did this occur in "Dr. Who"? Cause I missed that first part of the finale. :lol:

 

[PraetorCorvinus]

I find it interesting that the apparent dislike some feel toward Greg isn't so much about his character, but the lack of character. All the negative comments posted so far don't attack anything he's done. Only what hasn't been done. I find this intriguing compared to the dislike others feel toward other characters (Hodges, Ray, Sara, Catherine). In this regard, I agree with you. And I blame TPTB for this. Any and all character development he might have received was instead given to Langston, Hodges and Wendy.

I disagree with the idea that he has the complexity of a piece of paper though. You just have to look for it since he seems to exist solely in the background these days. Looking through all of his scenes in season 10, you can see who the character is - it's just subtle. Or visit the Greg/Eric thread - the fans there will surely be able to point it out. :lol:

 

[A. FineLabrats]

You are not the only one! Jekyll was the biggest disappointment ever -- and that's from someone who loves serial killers. They built up all this complex stuff over the season, and in the end it came out to a shoot-em-up ending. WTF?
We're supposed to believe that the guy stupid enough to fall for Nick's dead act and who's hiding behind pillars with a shotgun crying about his daddy is the same person who sent Ray some proschiutto drawings? I don't believe it for a second.

 

[byline]

You are not the only one! Jekyll was the biggest disappointment ever -- and that's from someone who loves serial killers. They built up all this complex stuff over the season, and in the end it came out to a shoot-em-up ending. WTF?
We're supposed to believe that the guy stupid enough to fall for Nick's dead act and who's hiding behind pillars with a shotgun crying about his daddy is the same person who sent Ray some proschiutto drawings? I don't believe it for a second.

I think the point was that Jekyll was a red herring and not the one we should have been worrying about all along, but Haskell. Still, it was a rather disappointing climax for a killer that seemed, up until that point, to be pretty devious. And it felt contrived and hastily conceived, almost like it was a Plan B (or C), with A getting thrown out for some reason. Hard to tell. I will say that it was a far better season finale than last season's . . . but that's not saying much, as there was nowhere to go but up on that one.

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

For me, that's just a sign that he's grown up, and also grown into the responsibilities of his job out in the field. If he had stayed that same goofy character, then there would be no growth, and I think we'd all be complaining about that. Now, I do agree with you that the writers have fallen short in fleshing out his character so that we know more about Greg than just the lab goofball that he used to be. That's why he often comes across as little more than a blank slate (even though I think this season, they improved on that somewhat). But Greg is still a work in progress, in terms of character development, and I think that's what many of us have yearned for.

I agree with this.

I find it interesting that the apparent dislike some feel toward Greg isn't so much about his character, but the lack of character. All the negative comments posted so far don't attack anything he's done. Only what hasn't been done. I find this intriguing compared to the dislike others feel toward other characters (Hodges, Ray, Sara, Catherine). In this regard, I agree with you. And I blame TPTB for this. Any and all character development he might have received was instead given to Langston, Hodges and Wendy.

I do place the blame for this on tptb. But I wasn't aware that Wendy really got that much character development.

You are not the only one! Jekyll was the biggest disappointment ever -- and that's from someone who loves serial killers. They built up all this complex stuff over the season, and in the end it came out to a shoot-em-up ending. WTF?
We're supposed to believe that the guy stupid enough to fall for Nick's dead act and who's hiding behind pillars with a shotgun crying about his daddy is the same person who sent Ray some proschiutto drawings? I don't believe it for a second.

Exactly! Unless he had a split personality and one was a whiny baby and the other was a diabolical mastermind. :lol:

I think the point was that Jekyll was a red herring and not the one we should have been worrying about all along, but Haskell.

Hmm... perhaps.

Still, it was a rather disappointing climax for a killer that seemed, up until that point, to be pretty devious. And it felt contrived and hastily conceived, almost like it was a Plan B (or C), with A getting thrown out for some reason. Hard to tell.

Agreed.

I will say that it was a far better season finale than last season's . . . but that's not saying much, as there was nowhere to go but up on that one.

haha, so true. :lol: But the disappointing part of this season's finale is that it was Ray who was attacked and left bleeding, yet we were told weeks before that LF had signed on for another season. So, the suspense is taken out of the ending due to that. We know Ray will survive, so there's no need to worry about his fate. :lol: That makes it a little too anti-climatic for my tastes. :lol: They should have kept a tighter lid on his contract info. :lol:

 

[byline]

But the disappointing part of this season's finale is that it was Ray who was attacked and left bleeding, yet we were told weeks before that LF had signed on for another season. So, the suspense is taken out of the ending due to that. We know Ray will survive, so there's no need to worry about his fate. :lol: That makes it a little too anti-climatic for my tastes. :lol: They should have kept a tighter lid on his contract info. :lol:

True. Now, my husband never reads spoilers (smart cookie), and he rarely reads the entertainment section of the paper, so as far as I can tell, he has no idea about the status of Laurence Fishburne's contract or Ray's fate for next season (and I'm not telling him; learned that lesson a long time ago). So for him, it truly was a cliffhanger. But he's probably a rare exception.

Still, it makes me wonder if TPTB have got something else up their sleeve. It seems awfully convenient to have released his contract info before the end of the season. So it makes me ask, "Hmmm, what's up with that?" Probably nothing.:devil:

 

[Desertwind]

Back to Greg, I noticed that no one has mentioned his book, about old Vegas, When he went out with Catherines mom cause' she had all kinds of news about old Vegas. He was in the midst of writing it then bam, Warrick got shot and we never heard about his book again They also never mentioned the cocoon that Sara recieved what happened to that? Sometimes the writers show continuity, and sometimes they don't. And I thought after "Fannysmackin", he would have recieved an award for that role. The court room drama, where he was pounded, yet he kept his cool. Compelling acting. but not a nodHe is a strong force on the show and I as well hope they feature a ep. where he's the top dog. But in saying that I'm happy that he's where this character is at, and he's in every episode, and still has his comedic comments, not like the early episodes, but he's matured and grown, so that speaks for it's self~

 

[PraetorCorvinus]

I do place the blame for this on tptb. But I wasn't aware that Wendy really got that much character development.

Not so much Wendy herself but Wedges. A whole episode each season devoted to the Lab Rats. That's a whole episode with minimal CSI involvement and even less Greg involvement. The first two were enjoyable and served a purpose (clip episode and breather episode). But the latter two were really about the ship. Rat episodes were never even thought of when Greg was a tech. But then again, the focus of the show was different in those days. I'm not blaming Wendy so much as the fact that they moved away from the original focus of the show and toward the interpersonal relationships - particularly romantic. And since Greg is apparently the only one without a love life, he's forgotten.

Of course, I am a Greg/Wendy shipper... so there you go. Screen time and development for everyone! At least in fanfic. :lol:

 

[electra]

I find Greg a little boring since he became a CSI.He has spark with Sara ,Nick and Catherine but is not enough for me to care much if he is alone.I never realized why but now I agree that his chracter needs to be developed further.

 

[misshelgenberger]

I think one major problem is the fact that they have focused too much on the character Ray. As soon as he was introduced it was all about him, and his backstory. We knew more about him in one season than we did about any of the others. Unfortunately that means that Greg has been forgotten about slightly. I miss the old csi that focused on teamwork and each member at one point not one member and how the others react. Let's not forget that Greg isn't the only Csi that has taken a back seat this season, where has Catherine, Brass and Sara been? Catherine is the supervisor after all yet she has had very little screentime. Brass isn't the same and Sara although she has some good scenes she is still not a prominant as she should be. So i think the writers need to get back teamwork principle, and stop focusing on one member alone.

 

[NHRFan]

I have to agree with Electra about Greg. I did find him boring by himself, but when he is with Nick and Sara, he laugh and carry on, but not by himself. He is too serious now. Hodge took over the funny one. They need to developed Greg more.

 

[DragonFriend95]

I do place the blame for this on tptb. But I wasn't aware that Wendy really got that much character development.

Not so much Wendy herself but Wedges. A whole episode each season devoted to the Lab Rats. That's a whole episode with minimal CSI involvement and even less Greg involvement. The first two were enjoyable and served a purpose (clip episode and breather episode). But the latter two were really about the ship. Rat episodes were never even thought of when Greg was a tech. But then again, the focus of the show was different in those days. I'm not blaming Wendy so much as the fact that they moved away from the original focus of the show and toward the interpersonal relationships - particularly romantic. And since Greg is apparently the only one without a love life, he's forgotten.

Of course, I am a Greg/Wendy shipper... so there you go. Screen time and development for everyone! At least in fanfic. :lol:

First, I have to agree with you on the Rats episodes. I hated Field Mice for the fact that it was missing two and was basically a Wedges episode :klingon: For some reason or another tptb have sure been putting a lot of focus on Henry this season. Not that I'm complaining (I think he's adorable :lol but I think now I know more about him than I do Greg, which is a bit :wtf:

I think they just need to take a huge break from office romances...GSR has just finished yet we already have Wedges and Cath/Vartann, which is not only irritating for someone who's not a big fan of romance shows but it takes away from the sole purpose of the show, which is science and crime. I enjoyed seeing them solve the crimes when I was ten, I want to enjoy watching them solve crimes now!

:Subliminal messaging: More screen time for Greg! :Subliminal messaging:

 

[Smokey]

Thread is temporarily closed for a bit until I work up what I'm about to post. Stay tuned!