Season 11 "Spoiler Lab" Discussion

I stand corrected. That's more than a rumour. WTF.

Stupid is right. Totally unnecessary.

 

I think it sounds like budget cuts. But she's a secondary character so I wonder how much it even helps. Weird. Some of the other people who posted under her post sounded like they worked with her on the show and they all sounded really sad, too. This is stupid.

 

I agree, especially about the lack of creating strong, female characters. I think writers of all tv shows struggle because they think the audience is comprised of young, teenage boys with surging hormones.

I remember listening to Dustin Lee Abraham bemoaning about how the main audience of CSI was 50 something year old women and that is a problem:wtf:..seriously..these writers, the networks and the rest of the crew need to get a grip!!:scream:

Sad to say, this goes to show that CSI is just one of many shows run by sexist and ageist..morons!

 

Well, if they're upset the main audience is 50 or above then they should congratulate themselves on being around for the last ten years, because it's this core audience that has had the money to support their advertisers the entire time.

The twenty-somethings they may be striving to connect with were tweeners back when they first aired. Not their target audience then. Nor the supporters of the advertisers that kept them afloat.

Okay, maybe their target audience isn't primarily in their 20's, but I always hate the fact that I'm in the wrong demographic. LOL <end of rant>

 

Speaking of sexist, anyone remember in "Weeping Willows" and how the episode was superly negative but in "The Good, The Bad, and The Dominatrix" Grissom practically does the same thing as Catherine and just gets a tap on the wrist? As a woman I've always found that...really fustrating. It was such a double standard.

Did DLA really say that?:wtf: I'm not 50. I am a woman but come on...rude much, Dustin? I'm certainly not going to keep watching CSI with that kind of statement.

 

Yeah in Poppin Tags, when he did a commentary with George..who did not respond to it..to his credit..but yeah he said..so yeah..SEXISM IS ALIVE AND WELL ON THE SET OF CSI-and just because there are women on TPTB..that does NOT mean they are not sexist..women can be just as chauvanistic to each other..you should read Female Chauvanistic Pigs..it clearly demonstrates it.

Yeah that just goes to show how it was okay for Grissom to pull the same stunts, but Catherine no way..but that could be the writers in their minimal moment of smarts showing the sexism in the police force.

When you watch Redrum, you see all these men just railroad poor Catherine into back-stabbing her team..

Poor Liz, but she is a talented woman, she will make it.

 

well, i wouldn't generalize it like that. i mean, there is nothing wrong with targeting a product to a certain customer. in case of CSI, it might not have been women over 50, but i imagine it's suppossed to be primarily for male/younger than 50 audience.

which is funny, b/c when you go on boards, like this one, the crazy majority of posters are women of all ages. which, i imagine, is one of the reasons why TPTB do things sometimes completely opposite to what we want.

i do not see anything against women there, per se. women over 50 are not the most lucrative audience for ad revenue, and not many shows seek their special attention. the premise of the show which is violent crime, forensic science, gore, special effects, case- (and not character-) driven stories are all ingredients for a younger preferably male audience. it's quite unprecedented that CSI is so popular with women over 50.

i have not heard DLA say it, so i cannot make a judgement of how it sounded, but even if, after all i said, it still *did* sound chauvinistic, we can't assume everyone on CSI including the women (whom we've never met) is a chauvinistic pig.

 

It depends on what your view of women over 50 is. Women over 50 have become far more diverse than 20 years ago. Look at Marg, she's a kick a** woman over 50.

Middle aged women have changed a lot, even in the 10 years CSI has come on. So I think the TPTB are simply out of touch at this point.

Older women WANT TO SEE MORE OF THEMSELVES on TV in realistic roles. One of the reasons it became appealing is you saw more women in powerful positions at the beginning, like Catherine.

If you look at Grey's. They have women of all different ages, sizes and colours in that show. Perhaps that's their appeal. Perhaps CSI needs to take a page from them and start being more diverse in terms of ages and sizes because that's the real world, TPTB.

Appealing to the young, hormonal guys is not always going to get you the big bucks. But who am I, just another female viewer whom TPTB couldn't care less about.

 

Please don't say that. You're going to give TPTB more reason to change CSI into something that it isn't. I do agree that CSI has...lost touch with their fanbase a little bit but maybe that isn't a bad thing. Shows can't constantly cater to the fans. That's a top ten sign that a show is on it's last leg. If that happens TPTB might as well start asking for fans to give them story ideas.:lol:

I didn't even remember that. Everyone did treat her kind of harsh in that episode. Especially Nick. Still to this day I really don't understand what his problem was. She had no choice in the matter.

Notice how the women in CSI are oddly characterized? Sara's the typical woman that needs to be saved by a man aka Grissom. Catherine is either the hard-ass with something to prove or the weak leader. I've gotten used to it by now but it still irritates me.

 

Sound like Liz Vasey (Wendy) is not coming back in 11th season. I hope Nick is coming back next season.

 

I'm pretty sure Nick is coming back. Unless he has a sudden blood clot I think he'll be okay.

 

Yeah I mean the Catherine who needed to be rescued by Vartann is not the same Catherine who shot a serial killer in season one. The woman can kick anyone's ass..but I guess the writers wanted to be romantic..oh well..

 

Not to distract from the blatant sexism going on on the show, but I don't think he meant that in a sexist way. 50+ women (specifically women over 48) just aren't worth as much money to advertisers, and I'm sure that this is what Dustin was complaining about.

Also, my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, is that boards like this one tend to draw more from those viewers who are proportionately more interested in the characters, as opposed to those viewers who watch more for the cases. Based on my understanding of theoretical gender differences, the character-focused viewers would be more likely to be female. I always just assumed that for every woman on Talk who is a big fan of Nick, Greg or GSR, there is at least one man who is equally devoted to the show but more into the cases and who is not on this board.

That all said, I hate how CSI keeps knocking out female characters.

Holly Gribbs
Jacqui Franco
Mia Dickinson
Sofia Curtis
Ronnie Lake
Riley Adams

All relatively complex female characters who weren't defined by being 'somebody's girlfriend'. And all booted off. Wendy used to be one of those characters. Then they made half of her role 'Hodges almost-girlfriend', and now she's getting booted.

Sara started out as a complex, funny, intriguing and strong woman, but then they turned her into an emotionally needy wannabe Grissom girlfriend, though it is nice to see her returning to her humorous, strong, intelligent and independent roots.

Honestly, if Wendy isn't back next season, I am done with this show. 30 Rock definitely knows how to do feminism a LOT better. And I know someone said that we don't know the showrunners personally and all that, but I still have to say that I expect better from a female showrunner and feel particularly let down by CM. Historically, men, when left to their own devices, have not always taken feminism far. Personally, I think it's every woman's job to at least do something to correct this when given the opportunity.

 

All I can say is that if Liz doesn't come back, then I've got no reason to watch the show. I watch little enough TV as it is, and she is quite literally the *only* reason I keep watching CSI.

Quite frankly, the whole budget cuts argument doesn't wash. If they can keep writing well-crafted episodes with characters that viewers can identify with, then they'll continue to bring in viewers and the almighty advertising dollars. Getting rid of excellent actors doesn't fix things. Getting rid of stale writers, however, can go a long way toward keeping a show going.