Season 10 *Spoiler Lab* Discussion P2

[Speedystokesgirl]

I just have a question, comment, thought, I'm not sure what exactly to call it. But here goes.

On all of the CSI's they have male leads or bosses so to speak, Grissom, Mack and Horatio. All of them get tons of quality screen time. The others are focused on, but they are and in Grissom's case were the main ones.

Now Catherine is the boss so to speak, basically she took Grissom's place. Why is it now she gets even less screen time then when she was his assistant? Instead of the main focus being finally on a strong woman being in a position of authority she has been pushed into the back ground.

The focus now is all on Nick and Ray. Finally a woman on one of these shows gets to be a boss and she dissappears. I mean the first 3 shows mainly have been the tag team of Nick and Ray. I would love to see women finally be the center of the show. Nothing againt Nick, but not everyone is obsessed with him.

I'm just not understanding why the difference.

Ok, here goes. Being the boss doesn't have anything to do with screen time, it has to do with who are the 'lead' characters and who are 'supporting' characters. Being in the opening credits has nothing to do with screen time.

Marg is the female the lead and she should have more screen time than the supporting characters. However, in the land of Hollywood male leads will and do get the most screen time.

On CSI LV, Fishburne and now George Eads are the male leads and Helgenberger is the female lead. Everyone else are 'supporting actors' so Ray, Nick and Marg should be getting the most screen time.

Now as a fan of Nick I'm not saying that because I am a fan of his. Nick was always a supporting character and Eads a supporting actor, apparently, until Season 9. The only way I know that Eads had been made a 'lead' in the show was because when the Emmy lists came out of who CBS was trying to get nominated, he was in the lead actor category. Which I was shocked.

In any case, that is why Ray gets the most screen time. Even though Eads is a lead too, Langston was brought in to replace Petersen and is the Oscar winning actor.

Now, as for Helgenberger, I know she wanted to leave show too and if it were not for the writer's strike, would probably be gone by now. Being that she wanted to leave the show, she could very well had asked tptb for less screen time so she does not have to spend as much time on the set.

Now, as a Nick fan, I've waited 10 years, 10 years, 10 years!!!!! to get more screen time for him and I, for one, am totally enjoying it. :bolian: He used to be a supporting character and that's why he didn't get much screen time and now he's a lead so he should be getting more.

Do I wish for the other main characters to get more screen time too? Sure, but in reality the supporting characters do not get as much, nor will they, unless the storyline focuses on them. Which happens at times.

So Ray will get the most screen time than everyone else, because that's Hollywood and that's how it works. Just like every other occupation out there, the males get more than the females. (Disclaimer: Not trying to offend the guys, it's just a fact and does not pertain to every situation).

I hope that answers your question.

 

[myfuturecsi]

Now, as a Nick fan, I've waited 10 years, 10 years, 10 years!!!!! to get more screen time for him and I, for one, am totally enjoying it. :bolian: He used to be a supporting character and that's why he didn't get much screen time and now he's a lead so he should be getting more.

ITA speedster..we waited ten years so everyone else should just sit back and let us Nick fans have our time of glory because who knows what will happen next season if there is a next season.

 

[Dizzney]

I personally think Nick always had decent screen time throughout the years and he is my second fave next to Greg. I've always been happy with the amount of time I've seen him.

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

I agree, with the exception of a couple of episodes last season, Nick's screentime has been pretty decent throughout the years... and we know last season's was because of George's back.

Do I wish for the other main characters to get more screen time too? Sure, but in reality the supporting characters do not get as much, nor will they, unless the storyline focuses on them. Which happens at times.

Tell that to Reid on Criminal Minds. :lol: He's one of the supporting characters. Technically all other guys on the show are above him and yet Reid (though he's my favorite) has gotten way more development and way more storylines arcs than any other character on the show... so much so that it's caused some people to dislike the character.

 

[Destiny]

The discussion thread for (#1004) "Coup de Grace" is now up, all discussion for this ep should be taken/done in that thread, as this is for future episodes. Thank you.

 

[tippy]

Just one final note from me on the screentime. Catherine fans have waited 10 years also for more screentime as have Greg fans and Brass fans, so Nick fans are not the only ones who have waited.

And I agree with a couple other posters, Nick has had plenty of screentime throughout the years, more so then Greg who many love just as much as Nick fans love him.

I was hoping TPTB would have learned their lesson from the past. When one character gets all the screentime, examples GSR and Ray last year, fans tune out.

I don't want anyone to think I am knocking Nick or his fans I am not, I like him alot, but I also like the other characters just as much. And I would finally like to see everyone who has stayed with the show for 10 years to get their time to not just one character.

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

If its Marg's choice to have that little scenes, then okay. But, if it's not her choice then it is not right of them to have the leading lady there so little.

 

[Drumchik]

Somehow I don't think it's Marg's choice. I remember that she was frustrated with her character not getting certain storylines and I believe that's why she renewed her contract.

So she probably is as unhappy with the situation as we are.

 

[Speedystokesgirl]

Somehow I don't think it's Marg's choice. I remember that she was frustrated with her character not getting certain storylines and I believe that's why she renewed her contract.

So she probably is as unhappy with the situation as we are.

Yeah, but she was on Craig Ferguson one time and said she was getting bored with the show. In another article (I believe) that during the writer strike she decided to renew her contract.

So that's why I think maybe she asked for less screen time. Tptb got to keep her on the show and she's happy. Though she should have more, but that's the only reason, I think, as to why she doesn't has as much screen time as a female should.

Now I posted this in another thread and I hope this changes:

Alright, this has been bugging me so I'm going to get my rant out here, as it pertains to the show.

Ray's the male lead, I get that. He'll get more screen time, I get that too. I don't have to agree with it, but I get it.

What annoys me is that, all of sudden, everyone seems so stupid. :wtf: They make look Nick, Catherine, and even Sara look like they can't figure out a crime. You know? I mean they've been doing this a hell of a lot longer than Langston and it should be them that Ray goes too for advice or fresh eyes on a case.

I mean Ray asking Nick and Sara if all the evidence has been processed? :wtf: Are they serious? Nick and Sara didn't know to make sure all the evidence had been processed? :wtf:

This sudden stupidity is really getting on my nerves!

Rant over!

 

[Kasey47]

I see what you're saying about Ray seeming to be the only voice of reason. I could understand with the Milander and his son cause because Ray had no preconceived notions about it. But even last week's episode where Ray said that "everyone thinks it's drugs" and he was running a test because he didn't quite feel the same way. And he was of course right. But this is not the pattern they should be establishing. There's a lot to be said for the experience that Catherine, Nick and Sara have. Things you just can't learn from just going to seminars.

Like it was a really good scene in One To Go when Catherine said that DJK Killer wouldn't talk and Ray thought he would and it ended up that Catherine was right. I liked that at least Ray tried even if he failed. We need a couple more scenes with a more seasoned CSI telling Ray something and not just explaining how Ray knows so much with that he went to every seminar known to mankind....

 

[jafox]

...how Ray knows so much with that he went to every seminar known to mankind....

lol. I wondered if anyone else was annoyed that Ray has been to so many seminars? It must have been a slow summer for crime in LV! :lol:
But seriously, they need to step back a bit from the superRay stuff. I think it's lazy writing to throw out the seminar card every time they need to explain Ray's sudden burst of knowledge.

On another subject here, I didn't count Marg's scenes, but I thought she had some good quality scenes in this one. I recall that many people, and even some more objective columnists, complained that back in season 8 WP was not in many scenes, just mostly in the office, consulting and doing paperwork. So screen time ebbs and flows. I do think Catherine has become more supervisory, which I like.

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

lol. I wondered if anyone else was annoyed that Ray has been to so many seminars? It must have been a slow summer for crime in LV! :lol:

That's another thing that bothers me. Catherine said in Family Affair to whomever she was speaking to on the phone that Riley left them with 100 open cases. So how in the world were they able to let Ray have vacation time? Oh and isn't there a thing that says you have to have worked somewhere for a good while before you can take vacation days? Tptb seem to contradict themselves way too much. It's very annoying. :lol: You would think that if they were already a "man down" with Riley's absence that they wouldn't be able to spare another CSI, so Ray wouldn't have been able to take time off to go to all of those classes. :lol:

 

[Bullit_01]

Being the boss doesn't have anything to do with screen time, it has to do with who are the 'lead' characters and who are 'supporting' characters. Being in the opening credits has nothing to do with screen time.

The only way I know that Eads had been made a 'lead' in the show was because when the Emmy lists came out of who CBS was trying to get nominated, he was in the lead actor category. Which I was shocked.

Close. As far as I understand, being nominated in a lead actor category doesn't mean the actor is a lead in the show; off the top of my head, Alison Janney was nominated as both lead and supporting actress in The West Wing - it's more the size of the role in the submitted episode.

I could understand with the Milander and his son cause because Ray had no preconceived notions about it. But even last week's episode where Ray said that "everyone thinks it's drugs" and he was running a test because he didn't quite feel the same way. And he was of course right. But this is not the pattern they should be establishing. There's a lot to be said for the experience that Catherine, Nick and Sara have. Things you just can't learn from just going to seminars.

Trouble is, Ray is a highly intelligent, and knowledgeable, person. He trained as a doctor and, when we meet him the first time, has a deep understanding of the criminal mind. To portray him as a bumbling newbie doesn't match what we knew of him. Yes, we saw him make rookie mistakes at the crime scene (the tie he has to cut off, was CSI's version of a bodysuit and facemask) but the science and the pathology of a criminal are things that Ray is easily capable of mastering.

Truth be told, new people in any line of work are going to be up on the new things. Experienced people are usually working off just that - experience. If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, it was probably a duck - everybody to the pond. Next case.

I always found the hardest part of crime scene management was all the paperwork - the science was the easy bit. That's just me. I also go to a lot of law lectures because I never studied it and its nice and shiny to me - I know all the law I need from a forensic point of view, but it's nice to know if a current case is about to change things.

I don't find Ray that odd; at least in the CSI universe. Introducing new science is hard and they have a ready made plot device; Ray gets to introduce it and then explain it to his colleague (and the viewer). Someone mentioned Reid in Criminal Minds - he is their plot device. Brainy kid who can pluck a vital piece of information out of thin air because the writers have no earthly idea how they can bring it into the story.

I'm more interested in where all the detectives have gone and why we had a definite and named serial killer given the televisual equivalent of a giant neon sign saying 'look at me! I'm going to be the exciting thing that makes you stick with the season!' Does anyone know if this is going to be the focus of this season?

Wow, that was more like an essay lol

 

[PraetorCorvinus]

The issue isn't that Ray is smart. We know he is and where he comes from. The part that is irritating is that everyone else got stupider. Ray is telling Cath and Nick, who have been CSIs for over a decade, how to think and how to do things. He's giving direction to Greg, who has been employed at the lab for almost as long as Cath and Nick.

I'm glad Ray is smart. He fits in nice with everyone else who are equally as intelligent, only in different avenues. But they need to let the others shine and remind us that they are just as smart.

Having Ray take up a point of view that is different from the others is perfectly fine. A fresh face offers a fresh perspective. He just needs to stop being the wunderkind and automatically come up with a theory that is correct while everyone else is wrong. That isn't going to endear him to people.

I hope I'm making sense

 

[Kasey47]

I can see what you are saying Bullit_01 and I can see that Ray is not your average newbie on the block. And I really like Ray's character a lot. But I can see how it looks that someone who IS a newbie in respect to criminal investigation is seemingly to have the answers that stump the more seasoned CSI's.

They are doing a much better job with Ray this season than last and I even liked him last season. He's finding his place IMHO with the actors and with the team. It's more of a cautionary statement that Ray not upstage for lack of better words the other CSI's. I mean no offence to Grissom but it gets tiring to have someone who knows everything about anything. I mean for once it would be nice for someone to say "I don't know what that is but I'll spend the next three weeks finding out what it is cause that's my job."