Season 10 *Spoiler Lab* Discussion P1

[GregNickRyanFan]

I am sorry to hear that LLS is leaving, I really liked Riley and she has great chemistry with both Greg and Nick. Its a shame. IMO the team or Catherine does not need Sara to bring them together and certainly does not need Sara to show her how to be a leader! But hey whatever, CM has no clue but as long as Greg is there I'll be watching. (he has been my sole reason for continuing to watch since S7)

I feel the same way, Wojo. Both Greg and Nick have been my reasons for watching and this past season, the Riley/Greg interaction which was great because she brought Greg's funny side back out. And I'm disappointed that it looks like we'll probably lose that now that Riley's gone.

I wonder if Greg had a crush on Riley and will be for the entire season. I think that would be kinda cute. And yeah...really sad. Poor Greggo.

It's hard to tell with Greg cause he's a natural flirt. :lol:

I really would like to see Greg being the one to call Sara, and maybe they have been in touch all along.

That would be nice. I always loved their friendship. If the writers showcase that this coming season, it'll appease me a little bit. I'll still miss the Greg/Riley interaction though. I was looking forward to Sara and Riley meeting too, but I guess we'll never see that now.

I also like the Wendy angle. If Sara is really only back for a few episodes, they will still need another female CSI. Maybe Sara talks Wendy into pursuing it.

I hope Wendy does become a CSI.

 

[happyharper13]

I also like the Wendy angle. If Sara is really only back for a few episodes, they will still need another female CSI. Maybe Sara talks Wendy into pursuing it. And maybe she gives Hodges a good kick in the pants to pursue Wendy. Then we could have a 'Meet The Parents' episode CSI-style.

That's exactly what I'm afraid of. Ugh.

Wendy is way too good for that. She's too good for chasing after a man with the maturity level of a seven-year-old. She is too good to be stuck as his tool. And she is definitely too good to be getting advice in her love life from Sara Sidle. That's like getting advice on sailing from Gilligan, or advice on finance and ethics from Bernie Madoff. Wendy deserves better than the clingy, desperate, years-of-following-around-like-a-lost-dog relationship that Sara had with Grissom. Please, TPTB, keep a young female character who is not already hooked up to someone else.

I really loved the possibilities with Greg/Riley, but I didn't want them to become canon. I loved that Riley never needed a man, and how LLS always said that she didn't want any romance for her character. Now we have two relatively young female characters who are both stuck with men and in or attempting to enter dysfunctional relationships with said men. Wendy and Sara were both great characters (I like to think Wendy still is, at least a little) before they became defined by their relationships. It's an insult to their characters as well as to women in general that they *have* to be subjugated to the roles of emotional and frequently rejected love interests to men they can do much better than in the first place. Blech. Not every female character needs to be a love interest. They could just, you know, be people. Real, complex and independent characters.

Thanks goodness for Catherine, though I have to agree with all of the posters who are hoping that MH abandons this trainwreck of a show soon so that she can go on to do so much better things. Marg should have been first on the credits. She earned it, but why put her there when you *clearly* need a man first. And then they let Ray lecture her in S9 about going to the hospital. She's the supervisor and a strong woman, and she still gets lectured by the male newbie. I hate this sexism of this show so much, and the way they've handled everything with Riley and Sara only serves to highlight their way-behind-the-times approach to characterizing female characters. Blech.

I just can't believe that they're doing this. The only benefit of all of the previous departures was that GSR and Sara were gone. Ugh. I can't believe this. I know Riley was only there for one season, but I really felt attached to her. She was such a strong, tough, gutsy woman of the like that I don't see enough in the media. She stood up for herself and she didn't let men tell her what to do nor did she let traditional gender roles hinder her characterization and personality. I loved Warrick, but I didn't cry when he died (though I guess I had more time to prepare), but I have to admit that I cried when I found out Riley was leaving. I just can't believe it. She had so much potential, and yet TPTB still have to choose the wimpy, emotionally challenged and needy female CSI over Riley, who actually sets an example for other women and girls to follow.

Has anyone seen/heard anything about Lauren Lee Smith's reaction/thoughts/input on the decision? It seems especially annoying when we don't even know her role in the departure. It would at least be a little comforting if she had been the one to choose to leave, and not because of anything negative (like the blatant lack of screentime).

And seriously,

Naren Shankar --> “It was an issue of how we were feeling the ensemble was working. When we brought in the character of Riley, it got lost in the shuffle a little bit because we had lost Warrick, we had lost Sara, and then in the middle of last season Grissom finally left. I think, as a result, the character never quite found its footing in terms of the rest of the gang.”

What? Seriously, what?! The team wasn't gelling. After you brought in two new characters. One of whom the majority of fans despise and who is incredibly introverted and thoughtful to the point where he just doesn't say anything interesting or interact in any vaguely interesting way with other characters without the help of incredibly contrived storylines. So clearly the problem was Lauren Lee Smith. Who has gotten maybe 20 minutes of actual talking time in this entire season. Seriously, how was she supposed to "gel" while processing a car or reciting information off of a computer screen to Ray?!

 

[jafox]

I also like the Wendy angle. If Sara is really only back for a few episodes, they will still need another female CSI. Maybe Sara talks Wendy into pursuing it. And maybe she gives Hodges a good kick in the pants to pursue Wendy. Then we could have a 'Meet The Parents' episode CSI-style.

That's exactly what I'm afraid of. Ugh.
Wendy is way too good for that. She's too good for chasing after a man

I don't think Wendy is chasing after Hodges, though she clearly likes him; Hodges is the chaser in this scenario. And I think putting Wendy in the field as a CSI will only help her develop on her own. I don't think every female(or male) character has to have a love interest, but it helps with the drama. We disagree in that I like the fact that you can have a strong, kick-ass woman with a softer side. I don't consider that needy, just real, and as Grissom would say, biologic.

 

[misshelgenberger]

Personally i think the writers have completely forgotten the reason why this show became the success it did. It was the mixture of science and characters that made viewers want to watch and relate to what they were seeing. Now it' only one or the other, there is no balance. The cast was the best ever and of course it isn't going to be the same now that several have gone but putting the regulars that made the show what it is into the background is practically sending them a message to leave as we no longer need you.

I feel sorry for the originals and lauren/riley, they love and give so much to the show but i being forced to produce underwritten scripts and episodes why the writers find ways to big up the new characters. They are concentrating to hard on trying to find ratings and competing with other shows that they forget the show and ultimatly shrink the standards.

Bringing back sara isn't going to do anything. The writers have made too much of a mess to help the show now. It's unrealistic and completely different. I think that Marg, George, Eric, Paul and Robert should leave if the writers don't listen. If you don't look after your actors then whats the point of being there. All of them have too much talent to be wasted on a show that won't even give them air time.

 

[Kimbo08]

Personally i think the writers have completely forgotten the reason why this show became the success it did. It was the mixture of science and characters that made viewers want to watch and relate to what they were seeing. Now it' only one or the other, there is no balance. The cast was the best ever and of course it isn't going to be the same now that several have gone but putting the regulars that made the show what it is into the background is practically sending them a message to leave as we no longer need you.

I feel sorry for the originals and lauren/riley, they love and give so much to the show but i being forced to produce underwritten scripts and episodes why the writers find ways to big up the new characters. They are concentrating to hard on trying to find ratings and competing with other shows that they forget the show and ultimatly shrink the standards.

Bringing back sara isn't going to do anything. The writers have made too much of a mess to help the show now. It's unrealistic and completely different. I think that Marg, George, Eric, Paul and Robert should leave if the writers don't listen. If you don't look after your actors then whats the point of being there. All of them have too much talent to be wasted on a show that won't even give them air time.

I agree with the above. The only problem is, the only actor I see leaving would be Marg, because she headline a show on her own, and it would last. The actors had talent before the show, and they'll have it afterwards. I can honestly see Marg on cable doing a Closer/Saving Grace/HawthoRNe type of show.

After steaming for a good 24 hours, I have decided that I will give this season five episodes. By the fifth episode, if it isn't like it used to be(interesting and captivating and ensemble-like), than I'm done.

It's a shame that a show like this, a show that was truly an original with it's hi-tech special effects, deep, thought provoking storylines, and incredibly well acted and well rounded characters/actors has to end in such a dismal and lackluster way.

It's depressing that an actor like LLS, who was never really given a chance to act because of the awkward time they brought her in, and because of certain other characters overall take over of the show, is now completely booted from the show for an actress that walked away from the show almost a year ago. Ridiculous.

In my eyes, Riley was the new and improved Sara. Intelligent and angsty, but without all the depression and immature attitude. Riley obvisouly had a jacked up childhood, something that casued her to become a CSI, and I was really hoping that we would get to see what it was this season. But, alas, TPTB pulled the plug on a perfectly good character and a perfectly good actor. Hopefully LLS will find work else where on a show that actually appreciates her talent.

TPTB should be ashamed of themselves, but I know they won't be because as long as their favorite actors/ships are back in the forefront, their happier than a big in doo-doo.

I don't understand why they are going to spotlight her in every episode she's in. I can understand spotlighting her in one or two, but more than that and it's pathetic. I honestly feel like a I walked into a moronic fanfiction where Sara wears a cape and comes in to save the day. TPTB need to drop this fan-girl mentallity because it gets old fast, and it only makes them look lame and pathetic.

Even if this isn't the last season for CSI(Although I sincerely wish it is), it is the last one for this fan. I, along with many other fans like the ones on this board, have put so much time and energy and MONEY into supporting this show, that is only fair that some of our favorite characters get the spotlight, not characters/actors who left the show, came back, left and then only to come back again.

MH, GE, and ES deserve so much more credit for making the show the way it is than TPTB are willing to give them. Because if they really realized the following these actors have, we wouldn't be having this conversation. It's the mere fact that nothing and no one can come between TPTB and their favorite characters/ships.:scream:

 

[happyharper13]

I also like the Wendy angle. If Sara is really only back for a few episodes, they will still need another female CSI. Maybe Sara talks Wendy into pursuing it. And maybe she gives Hodges a good kick in the pants to pursue Wendy. Then we could have a 'Meet The Parents' episode CSI-style.

That's exactly what I'm afraid of. Ugh.
Wendy is way too good for that. She's too good for chasing after a man

I don't think Wendy is chasing after Hodges, though she clearly likes him; Hodges is the chaser in this scenario. And I think putting Wendy in the field as a CSI will only help her develop on her own. I don't think every female(or male) character has to have a love interest, but it helps with the drama. We disagree in that I like the fact that you can have a strong, kick-ass woman with a softer side. I don't consider that needy, just real.

Well, maybe it's a subjective thing, but I, personally, do not think that a woman needs to be a love interest in order to have a "softer side".

Wendy and Sara are human beings (albeit fictional ones). They, like their male counterparts (the majority of whom have never been in relationships with colleagues on the show), show their softer sides in their decisions and interactions with their friends and other people. Sara showed her "softer side" earlier in the series when she worked harder cases, especially those involving violence against women. Wendy hasn't had as many opportunities to shine or show emotion (sadly, the only serious emotions she seems permitted to show are those regarding her relationship with Hodges), but I think she showed that softer side in 'Big Shots', when she talked to Greg about finding Aaron James' DNA on the bill and when she thanked Grissom for giving her the opportunity to be a CSI.

It's one thing for the female characters to have "softer sides", but that has to cut both ways. Sara and Wendy pursued Grissom and Hodges, and were left hanging. If characters are to have "soft sides", then it should be all characters, not just the female ones. In terms of canon, Nick and Greg have been single for the entire duration of the series. Warrick never hooked up with a coworker, and neither did Brass, Doc Robbins, Henry, SuperDave, BobbyD, Archie... The list goes on. Catherine admitted to crushing on Warrick and various affairs of hers were shown on the show. This not being the eighteenth century, being "soft" and excessively feminine are no longer things that are expected from women only (or at least that's what I thought...).

Female characters don't need to be screwing and/or crushing on their coworkers in order to have "soft sides". And I would definitely say that Wendy was chasing after Hodges in previous episodes. He's the one who has been incapable of actually expressing his feelings in a mature manner (or even in a language that he knew she could understand), and yet she keeps waiting for him. And the whole 'choosing the Lab over romance' angle in the S9 sci-fi episode was ridiculous. Wendy is a strong, beautiful, intelligent and funny woman. She can find someone to date who isn't as immature and generally obnoxious as Hodges. In terms of "needy" vs. "real", I can see Sara's initial crush on Grissom as "real", and maybe her move to Vegas as just idealistic and maybe romantic. But following him around and trying to initiate something for that many years, despite rejection? That's just pathetic and, IMO, definitely seems needy to me.

 

[jafox]

It's okay for fans to voice their discontent with the direction of the show, but I'm really uncomfortable with them projecting their feelings to the actors. I can't help but think that Marg and Robert David Hall will welcome Jorja back because in interviews they have publicly said how they miss her; and Eric because we know they are friends, and George because we have known in the past they are friends. I know the lines get blurred, but I think we need to be careful and not assume the actors are unhappy.

 

[Kimbo08]

Which is entirely possible. But just because they may welcome Jorja back with open arms, doesn't mean they aren't getting crapped on in the process. I'm not one to assume what the actors think or feel, but it's also possible that they may be happy to have Jorja back, but realize that from a work stand point, that their characters screentime may be at stake.

 

[myfuturecsi]

Which is entirely possible. But just because they may welcome Jorja back with open arms, doesn't mean they aren't getting crapped on in the process. I'm not one to assume what the actors think or feel, but it's also possible that they may be happy to have Jorja back, but realize that from a work stand point, that their characters screentime may be at stake.

Hey..why not..

I mean when you're out in the workforce, you have to be nice to people you work with who you absolutely dislike. It's called being professional.

Because let's face, the rest of the cast don't have a say in the manner. And look what happens one of them does say something, they get raked over the coals for it.

They probably are like the rest of us, just plain given up.

I don't see this show lasting another season after this one. Ten years is a great run.

 

[Destiny]

It's okay for fans to voice their discontent with the direction of the show,

As well as the characters, as long as it is respectful of others and done so with maturity. (I know you forgot to add that part right lol).

but I'm really uncomfortable with them projecting their feelings to the actors.

Which is why we have those rules about this thread being for the characters, storyline, etc and while the actors do play apart in that, their part should be limited as they have their respectful threads, (again I know you wanted and forgot to add that part right lol).

I know the lines get blurred, but I think we need to be careful and not assume the actors are unhappy.

The good ole "assume nothing" excellent point!

Personally i think the writers have completely forgotten the reason why this show became the success it did. It was the mixture of science and characters that made viewers want to watch and relate to what they were seeing. Now it' only one or the other, there is no balance.

Wait that was what it was about? Hollllly cow how did I forget that? :wtf: Thank you seriously for the reminder.

--------

Well now see that wasn't so hard was it. And hey I had fun. :lol:

 

[PraetorCorvinus]

Personally i think the writers have completely forgotten the reason why this show became the success it did. It was the mixture of science and characters that made viewers want to watch and relate to what they were seeing. Now it' only one or the other, there is no balance. The cast was the best ever and of course it isn't going to be the same now that several have gone but putting the regulars that made the show what it is into the background is practically sending them a message to leave as we no longer need you.

I completely agree. The reason I got into the show was because of the cases and science. For me (an avid lover of mysteries) I tuned in to watch the latest 'whodunit?'. Of course, the characters have to be interesting. It wouldn't have been the show that it was without Grissom, Catherine and the others. It actually wasn't until I found the online
community that I got interested in the character drama and the various ships. Right now, I'm attempting to focus on what got me into the show to begin with. As long as the cases are fascinating and I still get to see the few characters I originally liked (Cath, Nick, Greg and Brass), than I'll still watch. However, I have a fear that this will be my last season.

 

[Truth7]

Wait, what? The got rid of Riley to get Sara back?

I'm starting to hate the on-line fans' enormous input on the shows these days. :wtf:
I now have two actors whose shows I am avoiding like the plague because of the fans' behavior that seeming always lead to weak show-runners caving to their demands and thus altering the show permanently.

The on-line fans are not the entire audience for crying in the sink! I'd say it's 5% tops and not always very representative either!

I don't this is about listening to the fans, I think this move is about looking at the ratings and trying everything to keep CSI the top show that it has been the last couple of yrs.

All TPTB cares about is money, whatever will make the show put more money in their pockets is what they will do.

Most of Sara fans from what I gather across the net were happy to have her leave the show after Grissom's episode. They wanted whatever Jorja wanted, and since the last time they saw Sara, she was happy with her man. They didn't do anything for TPTB to get her back because they were happy with the way her story-line ended.

I know of some of her fans who are not happy that she is back because they don't want the writers to mess with the ending they gave her last time. So now they are going to watch for her but they were happy not having her on show.

This is all about money and nothing to do with fans.

 

[nicksarafan2]

Hi

I havn't posted in the CSI:LV area in a bit, mainly becouse as I watched last season it bacame the "Dr. Langston" show, and nick was just kicked to the side.

I'm waiting, hoping Nick and Greg get some good story lines, there the only reason I'm still watching CSI:LV, and so I will wait, and hope that tptb don't ruin both my shows for me

but i'm going to keep an open mind, I like Sara, and we'll see what happens, and maybe Nick will be happy in an episode for once

 

[Remmy]

Her acting card far exceeds anything Jorja Fox as ever done. She is too good for CSI, and will probably wind up doing something even better than rhyming off crime scenes in a valley girl voice such as someone we all know does or spend her time pining for some man like Jorja Fox did for several seasons!

Oh, sure, Jorja was never in any independent films (Memento, Food for the Heart) or you know, two hit TV shows before CSI (ever hear of ER or the West Wing?)

I apologize for the sarcasm, but your post was not only nasty, but inaccurate. (And it was Sara who pined for Grissom, not Jorja.)


I feel very sorry for LLS too, she was never given a chance. I wasn't sure about Riley as a character, but I don't think that was the actress's fault. It's got to be hard to come in when she did, and I think she did a fine job with what they gave her.

Ok, Ok, we get it. If a fly drops dead on the CSI set, it's Jorja's fault. If I break my nail, it's Jorja's fault. Recession is Jorja's fault.

Now that that's clear, maybe it's just that the timing of Riley's introduction to the team was very unfortunate, even moreso considering they were also introducing Morpheus to the show. I don't care one way or another about her being out since I didn't get to see her, but best wishes to her and there's the hope that she lands a role that's more suited for her.

I completly agree with Hadapurpura .Snowkitty

I thought bashing of all the actors on CSI was not allowed by any posters

[To meet a salary demand, I'm sure. /QUOTE]

Yeah I wonder whose!? Does it start with the letter J?

I dont think so.

 

[myfuturecsi]

I thought bashing of all the actors on CSI was not allowed by any posters

Bashing is what desertwind did a few pages back when she said LLF sucked.

Criticizing an actor or a character is not bashing IMHO, but I'm not the mod here so I'll let the masters of the domain, Smokey and Destiny answer that one...