On Love Triangles (chock full of *MAJOR SPOILERS*)

Muzzy_Olorea said:
Love triangles are never good. And I hope that if TPTB are determined to take it down that route that it's only a temporary one-off thing.

Having said that even though CSI:NY is a crime drama and not a soap it doesn't mean that love triangles won't raise their ugly head - Without A Trace is a crime show with the focus on the case rather than the Agents' lives but there was quite a prominent Love Triangle in that.

Oh well, as long as it doesn't ruin the excellent storylines they've had so far case-wise.

I, too, despise love triangles, in general and especially on a crime show. As I said in another thread, put Danny with Angell, put him with Lindsay or put him with no one - just no freakin' triangles! Blech! Unfortunately, I don't think I will get my wish.

On that note, I think WAT handled the Jack/Sam/Martin triangle decently, and if a triangle is what we're going to get, I hope the NY writers took notes: It was handled without messing up on the overall tone of the show, IMO.

1CSI - I agree on Catherine/Warrick - I just saw that eppy again and it was hot. If there is one personal storyline I wish they would pursue, it's that one.

Back on topic, I do like Angell. I hope whatever they do she can continue to develop as her own character, not just as a romance prop.
 
Kimmychu said:
I would love Hawkes/Angell. The man deserves some loving after so long of being in the backburner.
That would be a fun pairing and it'd be nice to see one of the other CSI:NY men score some action for a change. Danny isn't the only sexy thing on the show.

I want Danny/Flack, damnit! :p Their chemistry makes television screens go up in flames. And the writers want high ratings, right? It's been there in their faces all the time. :devil:
Amen, sister! If anyone's getting a piece of Danny, it should really be Flack.

As for the possibility of a love triangle, yeah, I can see that happening. That's just the way TV is written. Danny reached out to Lindsey, she pulled away. By the time she comes around, dramatically speaking there is simply no way Danny can be sitting around waiting for her. Where's the conflict, angst, storytelling or ratings in that? Of course we have no idea what's in store for Danny and Angell, in terms of how far that will go in Lindsey's absence or whether Angell is the real deal or just some temporary writing device.

Going back to what Top said about Danny and Lindsey being referred to as a "cute" couple, that's true. Even among the people who like them together, "cute" is the most that's ever said. How about getting Danny some smoking hot sexy love interest? Who wants a "cute" relationship, when the possibility of something sizzling exists elsewhere?

I have to concur with something Fay said. It really does come down to delivery. We can all read scenes and reach different interpetations of what a look or a phone call means. It's not until it actually reaches the screen that we can see what interpretation the actors, the director, the editors give it. There are a lot of steps that occur in between the writing and the airing of an episode and it really is a collaborative process.
 
^Part of the push then drop was probably Anna's pregnancy. She's hardly been in the show at all since that point in the season. But I do agree that not giving Danny and Lindsay any scenes/tension is telling. And it's possible they are moving away from the pairing, seeing how it's not exactly super hot by any means.
I've wondered about that too. Did they change everything because of her pregnancy (I've also wondered when she told them) or did they plan this anyway? I'm sure that she would have been in more scenes if she wasn't pregnant but would they have still went on with the Danny/Lindsay stuff or would they have done what they're doing now? :confused:

But then again, we're not sure if there's actually going to be a love triangle now, do we?
No, we don't and I can't see them going that route either.

Back on topic, I do like Angell. I hope whatever they do she can continue to develop as her own character, not just as a romance prop.
I agree. She's a great character and to use her as a romantic prop isn't fair to her. :(

Amen, sister! If anyone's getting a piece of Danny, it should really be Flack.
hehe...i definately have to agree with that. At the end of the day, it's all about Danny/Flack. :p

Going back to what Top said about Danny and Lindsey being referred to as a "cute" couple, that's true. Even among the people who like them together, "cute" is the most that's ever said. How about getting Danny some smoking hot sexy love interest? Who wants a "cute" relationship, when the possibility of something sizzling exists elsewhere?
I have never seen Danny and Lindsay being referred to as anything other than "cute". The Cath/Warrick thing was called "hot", Even Mac and Peyton raises your eyebrows. Out of all the shows and all the possible pairings, Danny/Lindsay is the only one that's been called "cute". Where's the "they are so hot" or whatever? :rolleyes:

Yes, it all comes down to delivery, what they leave in the scenes, and what they take out.
 
This actually pains me to say it, but should the episode air with Danny saying the exact words I was told was in the dialogue of the call ... nope, there's no way in hell the Danny/Lindsay thing is going out anytime soon.
wow.. now im interested..lol.
im a d/l fan.. but i really like angell.
and i REALLY dont want her character to get all screwed up into some crazy love triangle, or as some prop for d/l.
I really hope the scene isnt too drastic that it would make her look bad or anything, same w/ danny.but w/e were just going to have to wait!

Yes, it all comes down to delivery, what they leave in the scenes, and what they take out.
yup, it all comes down to that.
so now, we just sit and wait...
:)
 
NY is about to face its toughest competition yet in Lost
Now that sounds like a very good reason to actually have something like a love triangle added to the show.

'Lost' has a continuous story. Almost every ep brings up new questions and has a cliff hanger. People who watch an ep are likely to tune in again the next week to get some answers or see what happens next.

NY has a lot of great ep's, but not that many 'to be continued...' ones. The fans will watch it every week :), but networks are always trying to catch and keep the attention of the 'zappers'. You have to give new viewers something that makes them curious. And if some juicy love triangle does the trick they will definitely use that.

And although CSI is still a forensics show, the choice between 'just forensics and lower ratings' and 'forensics plus some angst/romance and higher ratings' is not that hard then.

And I absolutely love it when they add a little romantic drama to the show, but I don't like it to be a triangle -especially not with three people I like involved- because it always ends with at least one person getting hurt. :(
 
^^ i agree, dutch. They need those ratings, and especially against a show like "Lost" they need something to stand out, or something to cause attention. A love traingle could just be the thing. In my opinion, love triangles are a pain in the butt (lol), because as you said, at least one person ends up getting hurt! And in this situation, i like all the characters and anyone of them getting hurt would be sad! :(
 
Well, from what I understand, fans of Lost haven't been enjoying this season very much. It may well turn out to be another contest like Vegas vs. Grey's Anatomy where there has been no definitive winner.

We should be so lucky as to have a love triangle featuring Flack. He deserves to have such a storyline. Hell, he deserves to have any storyline!

The idea of a love triangle is intriguing. It can be awfully soap-operaesque, a play for ratings. But at the same time, I would love to see one! This is the crazy person who obsessively watched Melrose Place talking. But Top, I agree with you: I don't think it will become as dominant as all that. The show is allegedly about the crimes with some human element thrown in for good measure, and I hope they don't let the romance overtake everything else, including solid writing.
 
^i totally agree springmoon.

and i couldnt help notcing your signature.
i LOVE it.:lol:
I cracked up when that was on TV, and im cracking up now!
 
Well, from what I understand, fans of Lost haven't been enjoying this season very much.
Exactly. I know several people who quit watching Lost because the episodes move along too slow. Even I'm starting to get tired of it. I've half watched this season. I'll never watch it over NY. I'll just DVR it and maybe watch it. I don't think Lost will be much competition for NY.

I doubt any die-hard NY fans will watch Lost over NY.
 
o my i havent been on in a week and i missed so much :)

i would love to c some Angell/Danny/Lindsay drama :devil:
and as much as i want to c danny and lindsay togther
i also want to c some danny and angell i think they go good together. the first time i saw them together i though they where dating :D :D
 
I doubt any die-hard NY fans will watch Lost over NY.
:lol: Lost jas already lost(excuse the pun!) alot of its viewers... and now with the 3-or-4-months hiatus. :lol: NY is so much better than other shows!
 
I look at it this way, what could a Danny/Angell relationship bring to the show. The Mac/Peyton storyline was introduced to show another side of Mac to show he does have a personal life and he is not all job focused, and to show how hard it is to carry on a relationship with someone you work with. Also Peyton has only appeared in an episode here and there and was also in an established relationship with Mac when she first appeared ,she wasn't added to end any possible ship on the show, or cause angst for one. Certainly not one that has been as front and centre as D/L. Angell on the other hand appears in 4 episodes straight that I know of. Are they suddenly going to cut her back to an episode here and there. I think not. So I guess what I am saying is why do they feel the need to have Danny in a relationship with another character on the show, whether she recurring or regular to me makes no difference. IMO if their SOLE purpose was to just have him in a relationship so they could end the D/L ship wouldn't it make more sense for it to be someone we never saw or someone like Warrick's wife on LV who has appeared once or twice since he married her, but has no real purpose on the show. Also correct me if I am wrong but didn't we only see Warrick's wife once he married her. So let say Danny/Angell do start something. Following the pattern TV shows seem to take,(you only have to look at Mac/Peyton on this show) do you think its all going to be smooth sailing for them, I don't think so, and this is where Lindsay ties in.

In ep 3 she told him " I like you. A lot" I doubt whether thats changed and I doubt whether the show would have her come back involved with someone else or have her saying she cant be with him because they work together, because they could have done that without having to resort to a Danny/Angell pairing, also where's the drama in that. Why couldn't she face Danny before she left, why did she leave a letter. Here is why I think she did it. In ep 3 didn't she avoid talking to him the whole episode, it wasn't until Danny cornered her at the precinct and pushed her for answers about her behaviour that day, that she finally gave him some sort of answer, cliche that it was. So why would she put herself in that situation again, wouldnt it be best to avoid him, especially if she doesnt want him to know where she is going or isnt ready to talk about her past. I dont think Danny would buy the " I just need to get away" line he would push her to explain more and obviously she isnt ready to do that. Or maybe she cant tell him where she is going, maybe she doesnt want to lie to Danny or think its fair that she involves him, so best to avoid him completely. Also if the show are sticking to Lindsay possibly suffering from PTSD isn't one of the symptoms of that to push away the people you are most closest to. I stand by my theory that only Mac and possibly Stella know where Lindsay really is. And if this is the case then Danny is basically clueless as to where she is gone and why. To him it must look like shes shutting him out and rejecting him completely. And even if Danny does know where she is, i would doubt the show would have him say he misses her just because he is feeling sorry for her or out of guilt. Why should he feel guilty about his moment with Angell he and Lindsay are not a couple or never have they been. This scene between Danny/Angell is this meant to show a sexual attraction or more. Because wasnt the conversation they were having before this moment a sexually based one. So in the end what does Danny do, does he act on his attraction to Angell or wait around for Lindsay who has done nothing but reject him time after time but who he, at least IMO has not only a physical attraction to but an emotional conection to as well. That phone message he leaves only pushes home that fact to me. Also remember, Danny more than likely doesn't know why she's rejecting him and shutting him out and in a way neither do we. Because I doubt we are going to get the full story on Lindsay's past until Anna returns from maternity leave.

And thats why I think the show have purposely kept them apart for most of this season, to show some kind of distance between them. They couldnt go back to the flirty banter they had last season, Lindsay shooting him down in ep 3 changed all that. She told Danny they should just do their jobs,and thats exactlly what they have been doing. The times they did work together apart from OH there was no hint to Lindsays secret, or in the least they didnt have her react in front of Danny. Its like the show are purposly keeping him in the dark. And if Danny does act on his attraction with Angell, and brushes his feelings for Lindsay aside, what happens to that relationship when Lindsay returns. Because as much as some of us don't like the D/L thing the show are certainly trying to show us there is something there between them that goes way deeper than just a physical attraction. As refrenced by the emotions that swept over his face in that hug scene, IMO his reactions and emotions were not those of a concerned friend. And what happens if she comes back ready to start something with him, what ever feelings he has for Lindsay are still going to be there even if he tried to forget about her while she was gone. And if the show make this out that part of the reason he acts on his attraction to Angell is because of Lindsay's rejection of him. When he finds out the truth of why she did that, (and we all know he will)it has got to have some effect on any possible D/A relationship IMO its angst all way round not matter how you look at it. So in the end to answer my own question. I think the D/A storyline is being created to prolong the D/L one, so I guess I am with Kimmychu on this one. I don't see this as the end of the D/L ship.

I personally am not a shipper in any way shape or form and am trying to look at this with an open mind though I have read some of the shipper threads and its interesting to see peoples differing opinions on this subject. In the end I love reading all your different opinions. Its good to see things from both sides of the fence those against D/L and those for it. I am new here and this is only my opinion so please dont hurt me.
 
paigeS, I agree with what you're saying. If the writers are following formula--and so far, the Danny/Lindsay pairing has been nothing but uninspired, by-the-book formula--then pairing Danny with someone else is the next step. Lindsay will come back from Montana and want to be with him--only to find him in someone else's arms.

MrsGiovinazzo said:
As for the possibility of a love triangle, yeah, I can see that happening. That's just the way TV is written. Danny reached out to Lindsey, she pulled away. By the time she comes around, dramatically speaking there is simply no way Danny can be sitting around waiting for her. Where's the conflict, angst, storytelling or ratings in that? Of course we have no idea what's in store for Danny and Angell, in terms of how far that will go in Lindsey's absence or whether Angell is the real deal or just some temporary writing device.

Exactly. Dramatically, there's no excitement if Lindsay comes back and Danny's waiting for her with open arms. For one, it makes him look like a doormat, and secondly, there ends all the tension right there. If Lindsay comes back and wants him and he's waiting for her, then there's only one option: put them together. Generally when will-they-or-won't-they couples get together on TV, it's the beginning of the end. So that's probably not what's going to happen.

The other option is to have Lindsay come back from Montana and not want Danny--in that case, the whole thing would have to end all together, because how long is he supposed to pine for her? We already know she likes him--she said as much in LRC and, well, she was into him for all of season two--so the chances of her coming back from Montana not wanting to be with Danny are slim.

So there are basically three choices--put them together, tank the storyline altogether, or put an obstacle in their way. The obstacle can't come from Lindsay, so it's got to be on Danny's side. Enter Angell.

Going back to what Top said about Danny and Lindsey being referred to as a "cute" couple, that's true. Even among the people who like them together, "cute" is the most that's ever said. How about getting Danny some smoking hot sexy love interest? Who wants a "cute" relationship, when the possibility of something sizzling exists elsewhere?

This is what gives me hope that Danny and Angell might have a real chance. Let's face it, cute doesn't work unless you're in a high school drama. And even on Dawson's Creek, the cute, star-crossed lovers--Dawson and Joey--eventually gave way to the sexy, emotionally-charged, more exciting couple--Pacey and Joey.

Lindsay doesn't have an ounce of sex appeal to her. (Before people get upset--I'm talking about Lindsay, not Anna. Just as Danny and Carmine are sexual in very different ways, I think Lindsay is probably pretty distinct from Anna in this, though, not being a guy, I might not be the best judge. :lol: ) Lindsay is often referred to as cute, but she's not a sexy character in say, the way Stella or Calleigh on Miami is. Angell, on the other hand, does seem to have that sex appeal to her that would spark well with Danny. And I think on TV, sexually-charged relationships trump cute ones. So if Danny and Angell have real heat, it could turn into something real. Maybe.

On the issue of Lost--despite the fact that it's taken a hit in viewers this season, it still draws around 15 million--basically the same as NY. I don't know how many L&O was drawing when NY went up against it, but I'd give the edge to Lost as the stiffest competition NY has ever faced. 15 million viewers is still a lot, and it could take a chunk of NY's viewers. Or, neither could be affected by the move--it just depends. But NY has been lucky in that it hasn't faced any real competition this season until this point--both of the shows put against it were new ones, and both tanked pretty thoroughly. Lost's move could be making the writers up the ante a bit.
 
Wow. If TPTB wanted publicity they sure as hell got it! I can guarantee they will have no problem beating the competition in regards to viewers for this ep. hehe

Now to put in my 2 cents:
It's a fact of life, sex sells. Period. From what I've seen, the CSI empire has been built on it. You see gorgeous hot bodies, male and female, in every ep. On that point, Lindsay's character is one I would describe as pretty, but not sexy. If I were to compare her character to an actress I would say Meg Ryan. She's cute, perky, pretty, sometimes beautiful, but I've never really seen her as sexy. IMO the d/l pairing feels like romance, and that's what Mac/Peyton bring to the show. The show needs sexual heat and I think that's why they're trying out the d/a pairing. The key word there though is "trying". I don't know if it will be anything concrete or not. I think they are going to throw it at the wall and see if it sticks. From what little description of the scene and the case for d/a we've received, I envisioned something like they are doing a re-enactment (I forget what the exact term is they use on the CSI shows) and it calls for Angell to be in the tub and Danny having to be close for part of the experiment. *shrug* Just speculation on my part. Re: the phone call, I'm not so sure that they are doing it only for the purpose of continuing the romantic side of the situation as they are to show more bonding between the characters. See that's one of the qualities I love so much about the other 2 CSIs that I've only seen in bits and pieces on NY, the closeness and familiar quality of the teams. When one of the team is injured or has something happen to them, I feel the love and concern of friendship amongst the other characters. It's like they are really involved in each others lives w/a bond beyond that goes far beyond just being co-workers. I haven't really felt it that deeply with the NY team though. I don't know why, and I could be wrong so feel free to point out examples if I am, but it feels like they all just started working together. I just haven't seen much emphasis on their interpersonal relationships. I don't own the DVDs so I haven't seen many eps, blasphemy I know. ;) As I write this, I'm thinking it's probably because it hasn't been on the air as long as the other 2 but I just wish they would develop the relationship of the team as a whole before they started emphasizing this couple or that. I mean it just seems like they throw stuff in as and afterthought as if to say "yeah they're friends" but don't ever really show anything to back it up. To give a specific example, in Raising Shane, we get a little insight that Danny & Hawkes are friends outside of work but they have never (once again, please give me an example if I'm wrong on this) shown them spending time outside of work. It just makes it all feel really superficial to me. I loved when Lindsay took Danny to that bar to show him Mac playing. That was awesome. That sort of... discovery is the best word I can think of... is minimal in NY though.

My concern about any d/l, d/a, d/l/a situation is that it's going to be a superficial play for ratings. I agree with those that say it'll have a soap-opera-esque quality. How can you create intense drama when there's no depth to the relationships? Like u guys have mentioned, there's nothing between d/l except flirtation and a little attraction (although I get the feeling that Danny just wants to protect Lindsay and we've learned from his relationship with his bro that he has a very protective nature). All I've seen is flirtation between d/a as well. Come to think of it, Danny flirts with everyone. hehe For there to be tension though, it has to be more than flirting. You have to give me something more concrete. If I see more than 2 or 3 interpretations of it then it's just too ambiguous.

Anyhow, that's my rant. Some on topic, some off, some way off. :rolleyes:

Am I way off base here or did some of this tangled thought association spewing from my fingertips make any sense?



Edited for typos
 
Excellent post, CynRyn. :D Very good points.

The scene with Danny and Angell isn't a reconstruction, no. They've just talked to a suspect and then he walks off, leaving Danny and Angell standing on the street. There's a bit of dialogue from Danny, including some teasing, a bit of embarrassment from Angell. It's nothing nearly as sexy as if Angell were in a tub doing a reconstruction. :lol: That I'd love to see. :lol: Hell, I think all of the guys on the team (as well as other random guys) would be trying to sneak a peek of that one. :lol:

I just wish they would develop the relationship of the team as a whole before they started emphasizing this couple or that.
Exactly, thank you. :D It seems like the only relationships they give real attention to are the romantic ones. The friendship between Danny and Hawkes is a great example of a lost opportunity. Yes, they get along well while they're working, but who would have guessed that they'd be close enough that Danny would know that much about him? Mac and Stella's friendship is another one that, in the beginning, got a bit of attention, but now seems to have been shoved to the back burner. In season 2 especially, the writers threw in little 'moments' with Danny and Lindsay even when they made little sense to the episode itself. If they can take the time to do that, then they should take the time to show the friendships between the characters. I personally love the idea of Danny being protective of the people that he cares about, and for him to be protective of Lindsay when she's going through personal issues, but you can't help but get the feeling that the writers don't think that's good enough...
 
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