"MEAT JEKYLL" Discussion **SPOILERS**

[Felicity]

I really hope they kill Langston's character off. It's not working at all. He always stands out as a non-team player and doesn't have the essential CSI traits of being bland about forensics like the rest. The facts are too coincidental like Haskell knowing who the Jekyll was, and it was always about taunting Langston. When did this season become about Langston and not the team?

I miss finales like Grave Danger and Warrick's death. Because it wasn't just about Nick or Warrick but about the evidence and deductive reasoning. That's what CSI is about.

 

[Gremine]

I just finished watching Doctor Who and Meat Jekyll together. Doctor Who episode was better i think. I enjoyed the finale, i liked to see all team together trying to help Ray. The interaction was good.
Nate H! He is really creepy! But i don't get the connection with him and Doc J. actually, i mean i find the connection was forced (is this the right word?) alittle . I was expecting that Nate was just lying and playing games or he would have a master escape plan orrrr he would kidnap someone... Ok ok i guess i am reading fanfictions too much.

Glad to see Nick is ok. He still looks fine in hospital cloths.
Brass was right to worry about Nate, i am guessing he will be the one who finds Ray in blood next season opener. :cardie:
Cath was great when she said Ray that ''you have got the whatever virus.Take a sick day.'' :lol:
About Henry's reaction near Hodges and Wendy... i agree it should be about the things in Feild Mice episode.

Since we know LF will be in next season i can't see any reason why the end should be a cliffhanger. I never liked when they say BAMM! the season finale will be cliffhanger!!!BAM!!! or something like that. I think they should use the reverse psychology. They should say '' nahh.. the end is boring so the fans will sleep like a baby all summer'' and then maybe i find it really cliffhanger. Maybe they plan something else?
Ofcourse if i was a Ray fan and didn't know anything about LF's future in the show it would be a great ending.

Anyway it is what it is... I still enjoyed the finale. At least better than the last season finale.

 

[RocketScientist]

I actually had to go back and look at the article. It did say 'We know that something is for certain: at least one CSI will end up in a body bag by the episode’s end. Which didn't happen

Told you CM was messing with us......

Oh dear Ray's hurt again... I am afraid I can just imagine the producers/writers meeting with them thinking maybe this will make the audience like him more and they will have a lead like Grissom.

It's not working, folks.

Now the season is over I have to say that it seems like CSI Vegas has pulled out all the cliched plot devices to try to fast-track the elevation of a character to icon and be the reason people tune in.

What do I mean?
1. Lead in mortal danger - has to use deadly force (shots guy), shows how he can be thoughtful and 'geeky' but he is also a warrior/hero and will not chicken out if has to make the ultimate choice for a man 'of peace'.

2.Lead in mortal danger - hostage situation where he's unique skills save a man even under the threat of death. Keeps cool head and his passion for saving life out weights his personal fear.

3. Lead in mortal danger - does stop motion 'Matrix-like' karate kick. Shows he can handle himself in unarmed combat.

4. Lead in mortal danger - chases a guy on a motorbike (around NY). When this geek gets out of the lab he runs about and tenacious for justice (actually they do that alot with Ray).

5. Lead in mortal danger - chases Dr J around hospital and get hit by a a pipe on the head.

6.Lead in mortal danger - gets stabbed in the kidney by a shallow implement. Lets leave the views with the summer (and CM's rumours of body bags) to 'worry' over Ray's survival or not.


I may have missed some, but you get my point.

In 9 seasons they NEVER did this plot line on Grissom. They didn't have to. He was in life threatening situations (like Grave Danger twice), but it was in keeping with the plot and the tension and was not a device or anything.

I am also noticing (particularly in these finale episodes) how CSI Vegas now the CSI are behaving improbably.

eg. Now in every building the CSIs are knocking on the doors with guns drawn and the uniform is at the back! This happened twice in the finale, when they went to the Venneta restaurant there were 6 CSI and 1 uniform cop at the back! The cops might as well start wearing red shirts......

Grissom was usually AT the BACK, even doing walks and talks down corridors - upon servering a warrant this was right and we never thought Grissom less than hero. You still watched him.

These are all signs of tiredness in a production and loss of faith in their product.
There has been virtually NO ensamble feel this season and 'family'! What they are a shouting and not trusting each other now.

The Shark has been well and truely jumped. Sorry. This has to be the last season. In theatre they ought to know how to "leave the audience wanting" [more] and not "lamenting" [which is where we are now].....

Criminal Minds is 10x the show CSI is now. So is "Lie to Me" - it's their time.

I love CSI, I really, really do. But I think Petersen, coming from theatre, knew this instinctively. It is hard to let go but it is right.

 

[Nicksfriend]

Several of you have been discussing Henry's reactions and the fact that he brought the box from 'Ray's dad' to light.

Just thought I'd throw this out there. In the original story, Dr. Jeckyll's first name was....Henry.

That is very interesting actually. I didn't know and it could be a great fic, Hmmmm. It has been a while since I attempted but this could be a catalyst for creative writing. And the Nicky whump that I so loved was a kick in the buttocks too. May have to see what I can come up with Nickyfan! There are some great writers on this board, opportunity is presenting itself big time for once in a long time!I think it is time for some medical drama....

 

[myfuturecsi]

These are all signs of tiredness in a production and loss of faith in their product.
There has been virtually NO ensamble feel this season and 'family'! What they are a shouting and not trusting each other now.

Disclaimer: I'm writng about my favourite character and actor and this is no way is to slight the others. I'm sure you all feel the same about them, but I'm focussing on my guy.

I agree with you, but I'm glad they have continued on because fans of Nick have had their fill and I can say now I'm ready to say goodbye to the franchise. When Grissom left, I really wanted focus on Nick.

Now they haven't given me as much as I would like, hell I'd like to the show to be CSI: Nick Stokes:lol:, but that's not going to happen, but I'm happy they have given so much screentime to George via LF. I think LF has been a benefit primarily to George Eads-who after 10 years deserves it.

And it's easy to criticize a show when your favourite character leaves. I certainly would be all over the show by now if Nick had been killed off.

Billy Petersen (God Bless Hiim) was the lead, but the contradiction was that the show claimed to be an 'ensemble cast so the writers gravitated towards him (David Rambo, Sarah Godlfinger) wanting to get their names on the credits-after all it sounds so good on your resume when you write an episode for the lead character of a tv show, so Nick (and George) fell through the cracks for almost eight seasons. Thankfully, there were a few writers (God Bless Allen McDonald and Dustlin Lee Abraham) who did enjoy writing for Nick Stokes and we got some great episodes via their writing pads.

So while I'm ready to say goodbye after season 11 (if that's where the show is headed), then I'm happy that George got his screentime that he so deserved. He deserves a lot more than than what he's gotten, but what he did get is better than nothing at all, or being killed off in earlier seasons.

Again, I'm focussing on my guy and my rant here is in no way to slight the others.

 

[RocketScientist]

Indeed myfuturecsi, you can see how the characters Nick and Greg in particular have grown and rightly taken my center stage than when they were the younger less experienced.

One thing I don't care for in the new dynamic is the air of Ray being in charge of much more experienced CSIs. It doesn't distract from Ray's genius or not to acknowledge the value of experience. The reversal of expected authority of age with actual experience was an interesting premise to try. But they didn't really try it. Instead the rushed it.

A much more interesting and unique change over would have been to show the Nick character evolving into a leader/supervisor as the job was given to him.

They could have run parallel development of Greg into a supervisor in waiting. In real life you do develop and have these transitions and that is much more interesting than having someone learn everything in their sleep or something.

This way too we could have seen Ray's character adapting to being at the bottom of a ladder having been at the top.

It's too late now. They needed the courage they had at the start. But it is hard to risk when all there is to go is down.....

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

GregNickRyanFan-Maybe you are having premonitions, like Samy?

Uh-oh. I hope that doesn't mean I have demon blood in me. :lol:

 

[Wojo]

First myfutrecsi - I love your avi!!! I partially agree with you, IMO I don't think CSI needed another high profile actor like LF in the first place. What I wish they would have done is keep Marg as lead actress (which they did) and move George up to lead actor. Marg and George could have easily run the show. Its a shame that TPTB had such little faith in their original cast. (I wrote to CM, NS,& DR about this last summer, a lot of good it did).

They also should have kept LLS, and if they wanted to add Jorja then so be it. Riley and Sara could have co-existed just fine.

 

[S_Bright]

Oh dear Ray's hurt again... I am afraid I can just imagine the producers/writers meeting with them thinking maybe this will make the audience like him more and they will have a lead like Grissom.

It's not working, folks.

I agree and they can't expect the audience to embrace Langston the way they have written him either. I, in fact, switch to something else if the episode shows signs to be all about the wonderful Ray that knows everything and can do no wrong. He's a mish mash of character traits but with little core and I feel bad for Laurence! He's a wonderful actor but what they give him is too cliched for anybody to pull off.

He's still not part of the team and that's hurting the character. They started off wrong and rectifying the mistakes they did now will be hard to do.

 

[ebuzz55]

eg. Now in every building the CSIs are knocking on the doors with guns drawn...

These are all signs of tiredness in a production and loss of faith in their product. There has been virtually NO ensamble feel this season and 'family'! What they are a shouting and not trusting each other now...

ITA entirely. The group smackdown of Brass just tainted the whole ep for me. It's like even the writers disrespect their own characters. Now it's like they've run out of material and moved to the prime-time-action-crime-show. I loved CSI:LV because it was none of those things. *sigh* If I'm looking for action I'll watch Human Target.

I still watch, but it doesn't make me care anymore. In the early episodes they presented, without real judgement, how/why a person made the decision to commit a crime. The reasons were rarely all wrong or all right. They also presented the premise that the law could fail, but their only job was to interpret the evidence. I miss this direction, but I guess nothing stays the same forever.

ETA: Oh, and srsly, that guard? I think the word someone was looking for is 'idiot'. And in anything resembling RL Haskell would not have been left unguarded unless they were setting someone up to get shanked.

 

[AFIS]

eg. Now in every building the CSIs are knocking on the doors with guns drawn...

These are all signs of tiredness in a production and loss of faith in their product. There has been virtually NO ensamble feel this season and 'family'! What they are a shouting and not trusting each other now...

ITA entirely. The group smackdown of Brass just tainted the whole ep for me. It's like even the writers disrespect their own characters. Now it's like they've run out of material and moved to the prime-time-action-crime-show. I loved CSI:LV because it was none of those things. *sigh* If I'm looking for action I'll watch Human Target.

I still watch, but it doesn't make me care anymore. In the early episodes they presented, without real judgement, how/why a person made the decision to commit a crime. The reasons were rarely all wrong or all right. They also presented the premise that the law could fail, but their only job was to interpret the evidence. I miss this direction, but I guess nothing stays the same forever.

ETA: Oh, and srsly, that guard? I think the word someone was looking for is 'idiot'. And in anything resembling RL Haskell would not have been left unguarded unless they were setting someone up to get shanked.

I just want to say, great use of the word "shanked", ebuzz55. I haven't heard shanked in awhile and thanks for bringing it back.

Anywho...I do agree with the whole CSI doesn't make me care anymore comment. It's almost like CSI has lost a little of itself trying to be something that it isn't. I tended to agree with Brass over bringing back Mr.Superfreak aka Haskell. When did Cath become God of Las Vegas where she could make those decisions? Even Grissom would have had to go through Ecklie or the undersheriff to make that decision. But not Cath. She's Super Supervisor of the Night Shift.:lol:

 

[Smokey]

That is very interesting actually. I didn't know and it could be a great fic, Hmmmm. It has been a while since I attempted but this could be a catalyst for creative writing. And the Nicky whump that I so loved was a kick in the buttocks too. May have to see what I can come up with Nickyfan! There are some great writers on this board, opportunity is presenting itself big time for once in a long time!I think it is time for some medical drama....

I think this could be our next "Grave Danger" when it comes to post-epi fics. :lol: I know I already have two in mind, but I've got a multi-chapter one I'm getting ready to start that doesn't have anything to do with this episode.

I love CSI, I really, really do. But I think Petersen, coming from theatre, knew this instinctively. It is hard to let go but it is right.

That's just the end quote, but I loved your whole post, especially the specifics on where they have tried too hard with Ray. And really, would it have been THAT hard to write this new character into the show in a better, more realistic way? All of us have it figured out, why couldn't the paid producers and writers?

 

[chickdr]

Does anyone else think it was strange to see CSI's going to check out the restaurant in the climatic scene? Why would they be canvasing possible sites before they even knew if it was the right one(I mean it wasn't a CRIME SCENE - yet)? I seriously doubt this is the way police work is done. I like the show, but they have CSI's doing other cops jobs all the time. I wonder how many times CSI's actually draw a weapon(let alone shoot someone) in the real world.

 

[myfuturecsi]

First myfutrecsi - I love your avi!!! I partially agree with you, IMO I don't think CSI needed another high profile actor like LF in the first place. What I wish they would have done is keep Marg as lead actress (which they did) and move George up to lead actor. Marg and George could have easily run the show. Its a shame that TPTB had such little faith in their original cast. (I wrote to CM, NS,& DR about this last summer, a lot of good it did).

They also should have kept LLS, and if they wanted to add Jorja then so be it. Riley and Sara could have co-existed just fine.

Thanks about my avi

I think your dead on on how it should have been done. The show did not need a high profile name after Billy Petersen left. Marg and George were entitled to the top two spots. In particular, Marg who the show should have had starring to begin with. She earned it, rightfully so. I love George but Marg was the co-star with BP and it's only fair she get top spot with George second.

What I feel is happening is the show is narrated through Ray's eyes and it's just hitting home with me. Even when BP was the star, you could see the story through all the characters eyes, with Grissom kind of summing things up in the end with a historical or scientific fact.

Such as in Stalker when Nick wanted to know why he was the one being stalked, Grissom offered Maslow's Theory as an explanation.

However, with Ray I just don't feel that anymore. It's all done thorugh his perspective. And it doesn't work for me at least, maybe others, but me no.

And I"m not surprised Wojo that your letters to the TPTB went nowhere, my feeling is that although they are the showrunners, they don't necessarily make the final decision. It's usually the network and Jerry Bruikheimer (?) that does it. Sadly, it's the old saying about who holds the gold..

 

[jafox]

They also should have kept LLS, and if they wanted to add Jorja then so be it. Riley and Sara could have co-existed just fine.

^^^
This, actually, could have been fun to watch. :lol:


I agree with others about the 'family' theme for this season. What happened with that?
And that first scene really was a turn off for me as well; too much needless and unrealistic drama.