"MEAT JEKYLL" Discussion **SPOILERS**

[myfuturecsi]

suspect that if we get a Sara-centric episode next season, and hopefully get some GSR, that the attacks will surface again. Yes, I am well aware of the reasons some fans hate this pairing, and I don't want to get into that discussion here, but I am tolerant of things I don't like, and I hope to get the same respect here, though I'm not optimistic.
I will say that this is one of the better moderated sites, and I appreciate that immensely, but it still is slightly biased. I have learned, I think, to co-exist, but I hope that posters will have the same respect for my favs and my viewpoints, as I try to for theirs.

I think the core of the problem was the push pull between the GSR fans and the Nick fans as a result of the imbalance of the show. The writers were very centred on GSR and didn't bother with character development of Nick.

And JTD94, I know you felt attacked but there were a lot of GSR fans were quite hostile to us Nick fans as well. So everyone behaved badly and yes even I did too. Perhaps the anger should have been directed at TPTB and the network executives who ultimately made the decision.

While I know a lot of GSR fans want more, I think it is only fair to leave the chapter closed. There was an ending to it in season nine. They got married. I don't know how much more can be done in that regards.

So I hope season 11 will finally give us more about characters that have been neglected over the years.

Even though Greg is not my favourite character, I do respect he is a character on the show who should have more of an arc, his fans certainly have waited a long time for it. So let them have it. Why not? He is a character worth exploring more. Eric Szamanda(?)is a pretty versatile actor and deserves much more.

It's kind of starnge how CSI has had this hierarchy in terms of screen time, yet profess to be an ensemble cast? Don't you think? Are other shows like this? I dont' watch a whole lot of TV as I have a daughter who hogs the TV watching Demi Lovato and Miley Cyrus:lol:, so I'm lucky to even get in the shows I do get like CSI and Glee-which we both watch.

Anyways, maybe someone else has better insight than I do?

 

[Nicksfriend]

In CSI's defense, it IS entirely plausible that you could be shiv'd to death by a poke in the side with the sharpened arm of glasses. There are numerous accounts of inmates killing other inmates with pencils, pens, toothbrushes, etc. If it's sharp enough (and it's not that hard to make sharp enough), and you go in between the ribs, you can kill a man, even a big man.

That was probably the only plausible moment in that scene, though. A serial killer like Mr. Noodle- I mean Haskell would NEVER be left 'alone' with a CSI. The dude was deemed dangerous enough to put a shock belt on, for crying out loud! Which, by the way, actually exists: it's a Stun Belt and LA uses them. If he's THAT dangerous, they'd lock him up, shackle his wrists and ankles to a belt, and then the floor.

But killing someone with the arm of your glasses? Yup. Can, has, does and will happen. Prison makes people come up with some pretty surprisingly inventive ways of killing other people.

I would have to read a medical case study, never seen it before with just the end of the glasses and I work in an area that would. Ray is too big, rotund, major organs lie deep, even the kidneys. Now he could have paralyzed him if there was injury to the spinal cord but that is not where Haskell was stabbing him. I would have to be convinced that large blood pool was from some major source and I can't for the life of me. But we are talking television where anything is a possibility.

 

[PraetorCorvinus]

so I'm lucky to even get in the shows I do get like CSI and Glee-which we both watch.

This is going to be off topic but your comment about CSI and Glee reminded me of something that I needed to share.

A few weeks ago, I was at a friends house with a bunch of people hangin' out. It was a Tuesday night and the group wanted to watch TV. Half wanted Lost and the other half wanted Glee. I'd never seen either so went with Lost. They kicked me out after I asked too many questions about what was going on. So I joined the Glee group. I was thoroughly bored until one of the character's mom appeared on the screen. It was the same actress who played Jacqui Franco on CSI. I got all excited and started going on about CSI. They kicked me out too. :lol:

 

[myfuturecsi]

so I'm lucky to even get in the shows I do get like CSI and Glee-which we both watch.

This is going to be off topic but your comment about CSI and Glee reminded me of something that I needed to share.

A few weeks ago, I was at a friends house with a bunch of people hangin' out. It was a Tuesday night and the group wanted to watch TV. Half wanted Lost and the other half wanted Glee. I'd never seen either so went with Lost. They kicked me out after I asked too many questions about what was going on. So I joined the Glee group. I was thoroughly bored until one of the character's mom appeared on the screen. It was the same actress who played Jacqui Franco on CSI. I got all excited and started going on about CSI. They kicked me out too. :lol:

Oh that is who it is. I knew I'd seen Finn's mom on CSI, but I was not sure which character she was. That's so cool.

 

[Dizzney]

Oh that is who it is. I knew I'd seen Finn's mom on CSI, but I was not sure which character she was. That's so cool.

You're right. I could not think of where I saw her before. :lol:

I think there is a possibility that Ray could have been critically injured by that instrument Haskell created.

 

[A. FineLabrats]

In CSI's defense, it IS entirely plausible that you could be shiv'd to death by a poke in the side with the sharpened arm of glasses. There are numerous accounts of inmates killing other inmates with pencils, pens, toothbrushes, etc. If it's sharp enough (and it's not that hard to make sharp enough), and you go in between the ribs, you can kill a man, even a big man.

That was probably the only plausible moment in that scene, though. A serial killer like Mr. Noodle- I mean Haskell would NEVER be left 'alone' with a CSI. The dude was deemed dangerous enough to put a shock belt on, for crying out loud! Which, by the way, actually exists: it's a Stun Belt and LA uses them. If he's THAT dangerous, they'd lock him up, shackle his wrists and ankles to a belt, and then the floor.

But killing someone with the arm of your glasses? Yup. Can, has, does and will happen. Prison makes people come up with some pretty surprisingly inventive ways of killing other people.

I would have to read a medical case study, never seen it before with just the end of the glasses and I work in an area that would. Ray is too big, rotund, major organs lie deep, even the kidneys. Now he could have paralyzed him if there was injury to the spinal cord but that is not where Haskell was stabbing him. I would have to be convinced that large blood pool was from some major source and I can't for the life of me. But we are talking television where anything is a possibility.

There are large veins in and around that area. If he was stabbed multiple times with a long instrument, and wasn't found for a while, it's quite conceivable that he'd bleed a lot. I don't know if it would necessarily be life threatening, but it could account for the blood.

 

[happyharper13]

For me, this forum is a breath of fresh air because differing viewpoints are welcome, and posters are not allowed to attack others for having different opinions. So thanks to the moderators and posters here for making that possible!

I've debated for a couple days about whether to respond to this, and since it still nags at me, I decided 'what the hell'.
And I'm sorry that it is way off topic, BUT:

I joined this forum about 3 years ago, as I was intrigued by the GSR storyline and a fan of the show; but, I was continually attacked for my posts as a fan of Sara/Jorja and GSR. It wasn't a 'breath of fresh air' to me, but I decided to stick with it because I enjoy reading some of the diverse posts. It's a great forum for Nick fans; but my memory is still fresh about the harsh attacks on Sara/Jorja and GSR. I was really quite baffled as to why the attacks would get so ugly, and personal. But, since then I have become a veteran of several web sites, and have grown a harder shell.
I suspect that if we get a Sara-centric episode next season, and hopefully get some GSR, that the attacks will surface again. Yes, I am well aware of the reasons some fans hate this pairing, and I don't want to get into that discussion here, but I am tolerant of things I don't like, and I hope to get the same respect here, though I'm not optimistic.
I will say that this is one of the better moderated sites, and I appreciate that immensely, but it still is slightly biased. I have learned, I think, to co-exist, but I hope that posters will have the same respect for my favs and my viewpoints, as I try to for theirs.

Smokey, if you feel this is inappropriate and want to delete it, feel free; but I do feel a little better now to have gotten this off my chest.

Thanks, jtd94. I'm not a GSR fan, though I do love Jorja Fox. I think you make a really good point and I hope we all are respectful of where you're coming from

Hopefully, next season will be more balanced, complete with development for all of the characters that we love. One thing I really did like in terms of character appreciation this past season was seeing some Bobby D finally. Hopefully, he'll be there more in the future. Maybe they'll even give Henry a good birthday :lol:

I am also really curious as to whether Wendy will ever get out into the field.

This is going to be off topic but your comment about CSI and Glee reminded me of something that I needed to share.

A few weeks ago, I was at a friends house with a bunch of people hangin' out. It was a Tuesday night and the group wanted to watch TV. Half wanted Lost and the other half wanted Glee. I'd never seen either so went with Lost. They kicked me out after I asked too many questions about what was going on. So I joined the Glee group. I was thoroughly bored until one of the character's mom appeared on the screen. It was the same actress who played Jacqui Franco on CSI. I got all excited and started going on about CSI. They kicked me out too. :lol:

Lol. You show 'em, dude.:devil:

 

[Washington Pride]

If this was real life I would give someone with injury's like Raymond's a fifty/fifty chance of survival,I might increase it to sixty percent because he's a big guy, who can loss a little more blood then say Nicky could. As far as T.V odds are concerned, well just because he's going to be in season eleven doesn't mean he is going to survive.I think his T.V odds are about 80/20, because he is a controversial CSI,but the director likes him and so do the other CSIS. I hope he makes it, He is a great CSI.

 

[Desertwind]

If this was real life I would give someone with injury's like Raymond's a fifty/fifty chance of survival,I might increase it to sixty percent because he's a big guy, who can loss a little more blood then say Nicky could. As far as T.V odds are concerned, well just because he's going to be in season eleven doesn't mean he is going to survive.I think his T.V odds are about 80/20, because he is a controversial CSI,but the director likes him and so do the other CSIS. I hope he makes it, He is a great CSI.

He'll make it, and I agree he is a big rugged, hunky guy but certanly not 'rotund', just big framed. He's brought a brand new positive demension to the show and is a 'breath of fresh air, He is a great CSI. He'll be around as long as the writers want him and the fans too, me being one of them:bolian:

 

[Ipstenu]

Oh, don't get me wrong. The entire scenario (from the cops leaving Ray alone with Haskell and not noticing the glasses missing to how quickly Haskell made an effective shiv) was so unlikely and unrealistic I was rolling my eyes a lot. But possible, given the absolute perfect storm of events? *wince* Yeah, it could happen. Lets say Haskell had pre-made his shiv and 'concealed it' by making his glasses look normal enough that no one investigated it. And let's say that he's strong enough to withstand the shock those belts give out (which can make grown men pass out and soil themselves). And let's say Dr. Jekyll taught him exactly where to stab people to cause the perfect amount of damage. And let's say Ray, a big, strong, competent fighting man (ep 1 of this season) was so giddy from the case wrapping up and Nick being okay that he was too shocked to struggle or fight back effectively.

Then fine.

But the video camera that is trained on cells 24/7 would have caught it. And someone would have come running in and shocked the hell out of Haskell. And probably done some things that would be called 'police brutality.'

Highly unlikely.

 

[Nicksfriend]

Oh, don't get me wrong. The entire scenario (from the cops leaving Ray alone with Haskell and not noticing the glasses missing to how quickly Haskell made an effective shiv) was so unlikely and unrealistic I was rolling my eyes a lot. But possible, given the absolute perfect storm of events? *wince* Yeah, it could happen. Lets say Haskell had pre-made his shiv and 'concealed it' by making his glasses look normal enough that no one investigated it. And let's say that he's strong enough to withstand the shock those belts give out (which can make grown men pass out and soil themselves). And let's say Dr. Jekyll taught him exactly where to stab people to cause the perfect amount of damage. And let's say Ray, a big, strong, competent fighting man (ep 1 of this season) was so giddy from the case wrapping up and Nick being okay that he was too shocked to struggle or fight back effectively.

Then fine.

But the video camera that is trained on cells 24/7 would have caught it. And someone would have come running in and shocked the hell out of Haskell. And probably done some things that would be called 'police brutality.'

Highly unlikely.

I agree! See they are getting away from what made this show so great...realistic writing scenarios and gripping endings. I wanted more when it was done....Guess I am not a big Ray fan.

 

[Ipstenu]

I don't think it mattered WHO was stabbed, or whom you were a fan of (I've always liked Fishburne). At no point was the storyline gripping enough to make you buy into the situation. The crime was for the sake of the plot (see Greys Anatomy, ER, etc), rather than the plot based on the crime (see West Wing season 1, Law & Order (all 20 seasons), CSI season 1, etc).

More science please!

 

[byline]

I joined this forum about 3 years ago, as I was intrigued by the GSR storyline and a fan of the show; but, I was continually attacked for my posts as a fan of Sara/Jorja and GSR.

I'm sorry that happened to you here. This is essentially the same thing that happened to me on the other forum, except that I was never really a fan of the Grissom/Sara romance and wish that the powers that be had never gone down that path. However, since they did, I think they handled it about as well as they could.

I was also rather displeased with some of the stereotypical choices the writers made for both of the lead the female characters during that time (Sara = neurotic and jealous, Catherine = insecure control freak), while largely giving the male characters a pass on neuroses. That bugged me, but I felt it was the fault of the writers, not the actors, and I was always careful to make that distinction.

But the all-out hatred of Sara/Jorja -- and, by extension, anyone who came to her defense -- that I saw on this other board really baffled me. I tried to address that there, only to end up being attacked more, so finally I gave up. I think that was around the time that I started reading/posting to this board. So it may be that we were having parallel experiences, but on different boards. When I came over to this board and didn't see that same level of antagonism, I found it refreshing.

That's why I said that for me, this forum is a breath of fresh air. But then, I don't have the same history here that you do . . . though my experience on that other board does mirror yours.

 

[ladyhunter]

Ummm I have a question and I'm asking here, because I think it has to do with Haskell.

I'm watching Leave out all the Rest now, Haskell was the guy who wound up killing Justine and Ian right? They linked him to what 19 murders? Well that's what Vartann said and one of the last episodes Grissom was in, 19 Down.

I'm just asking because I'm trying to tie it all together.

 

[PraetorCorvinus]

Ummm I have a question and I'm asking here, because I think it has to do with Haskell.

I'm watching Leave out all the Rest now, Haskell was the guy who wound up killing Justine and Ian right? They linked him to what 19 murders? Well that's what Vartann said and one of the last episodes Grissom was in, 19 Down.

I'm just asking because I'm trying to tie it all together.

Kind of. It wasn't Haskell himself - he was behind bars - but the protege/copycat who was in Langston's class.