Mac #5: Back In Black!

[Fruitbat]

MacsLady said:

I checked out her reviews and fic lately, and I love both. I like how she reviews the show and characters - pointing out both their good points and their flaws, but not in a hostile way. And her fic is great - I was reading the Mac stuff earlier. stellaluna, if you ever read this I LOVE YOU!!!

Her insights are great, she really does an indepth review in context with all the previouse episodes. The things she pics up on re the characters and how it all relates is amazing, I have read her reviews since she started on season 1.

MBGrissom said:
A Men of CSI calendar?! Oooh, sign me up, if anyone ever made one! Nekkid Mac under the Christmas tree? *drool* Now, that's the pic that I want!

See now I wont be able to look at my tree in the same way...

Me neither. My mum just put ours up, and thoughts of Nekkid!Mac are running through my head right now. God, it's a good job no one in my family or at work can read my mind - they'd be shocked by the Mac-centric Gutter Thoughts in there. You guys are the only ones who know about those!

We are happy to share in the xrated madness. Mac in nothing but a red bow....*THUD*

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're just 'testing' your new system. And I never ever have guttery thoughts about Mac. My Mac-Fest starts tommorrow - Corporate Warriors is first up. And we SHOULD have a Mac Fest as Channel 5 has deprived us of our Mac dosage for the next two weeks, the meanies.

I know now I have nothing to look forward to this Tuesday...*sulk* Methinks I will dig out Charge of This Post, and Consiquences and have a little Mac Flack fest.......

It's fun how everyone views characters differently, depending on how well they like them. Many people mentioned how Mac wasn't capable of comforting Danny in Child's Play. But I saw it differently. Sometimes, what you really need is just someone to be calm and to listen, because honestly there's nothing they could say that would make it any better. Mac knows this - so he mostly let Danny do the talking. Also, I felt that Mac really understood when Danny mentioned not wanting to be home because he wouldn't hear Ruben behind the walls. How many times has Mac not wanted to be home at night because his wife was gone?

I know what you mean we have constantly seen how Mac deals with these situations, he is out of his depth he doesnt know what to say, or how to act, so he does what he can, he listens to Danny, and as you said he understands why Danny does not want to go home. Mac knows from experience how it feels to go home, he knows that the empty space left in Dannys life by Rubens absence will be more palpable when he is at home.

Firstly, welcome to the Mac thread, DakotaCal.
Secondly, I agree with you about Mac in Child's Play. I think Mac was comforting Danny in his own way - being someone there who is calm and listenining to him, and letting him stay at work because he understands why he doesn't want to go home. Like you say, Mac has often worked late/avoided going home, and like you, I always thought it was because Claire is gone. Poor Mac. *hugs Mac* Also, like you say, I think Mac knows all too well that when someone you love/care about dies, nothing anyone says can really make it all better - I have noticed how when he talks about Claire (for example in The Closer in s1) Stella just listens, as she does in Charge of this Post when Mac tells her about his experience of the '83 Beirut barracks bombing.
Some people have called Mac 'emotionally stunted', which I don't think he is. I think he just struggles to acknowledge his own emotions and to open up emotionally even with those closest to him, perhaps because he is frightened/worried that he will get hurt somehow. I mean, his wife died, a woman he clearly loved deeply, and whose death still effects him, and then he opens up emotionally to Peyton, and she dumps him. Also, he's a Marine and I assume that as a Marine he was told/taught to keep control of his emotions, that he had to do so in the face of war. But I think that we do see Mac be there emotionally, or at least try to, for his team - for Stella in All Access and The Ride In, for Danny in RSRD and Child's Play, for Lindsay in Obsession and Stealing Home, and Hawkes in Raising Shane. We've also seen him open himself up emotionally to Stella, Flack, and Hawkes. Just because Mac isn't as emotionally open/involved as Danny is doesn't, IMO, make him emotionally stunted. I always liked that Mac's emotion was expressed in a more subtle way than Danny's, it marks him out as a unique character. And we already have a very emotionally open/very emotionally involved lead CSI with Horatio in Miami. Mac is more like Grissom when it comes to emotions.

Great comments there with Mac and the emotions you guys, and I agree totaly. Re the emotionaly stunted comment, like you, I just cant see it - take the scene in Consiquences when Reed walks out, you can see the hurt on Mac's face, as in Blink when Mac is talking about Claire at the hospital, and at Ground Zero. He is just not as "heart on your sleave" as Danny, that doesnt make him stunted, just emotionaly repressed at worst. He tries to hard to keep them under control, and like you said, I think that will have a lot to do with his military training, his loss of Claire and also the events of his past. Peyton dumping him wont help matters either.

EDIT- Gorgeous pic of Mac and Flack, FB. *drools* I especially like the Mac Arm Porn, yum.
And I like Adam too. He's a cutie. What is it about the men of NY and their General Hotness? Seriously, there must be something in the water.

If its the water I want to take a bath in it... :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:

 

[MacsLady]

I know now I have nothing to look forward to this Tuesday...*sulk* Methinks I will dig out Charge of This Post, and Consiquences and have a little Mac Flack fest.......

Oooh, Mac/Flack fest, sounds like lots of wicked fun. :devil:

Firstly, welcome to the Mac thread, DakotaCal.
Secondly, I agree with you about Mac in Child's Play. I think Mac was comforting Danny in his own way - being someone there who is calm and listenining to him, and letting him stay at work because he understands why he doesn't want to go home. Like you say, Mac has often worked late/avoided going home, and like you, I always thought it was because Claire is gone. Poor Mac. *hugs Mac* Also, like you say, I think Mac knows all too well that when someone you love/care about dies, nothing anyone says can really make it all better - I have noticed how when he talks about Claire (for example in The Closer in s1) Stella just listens, as she does in Charge of this Post when Mac tells her about his experience of the '83 Beirut barracks bombing.
Some people have called Mac 'emotionally stunted', which I don't think he is. I think he just struggles to acknowledge his own emotions and to open up emotionally even with those closest to him, perhaps because he is frightened/worried that he will get hurt somehow. I mean, his wife died, a woman he clearly loved deeply, and whose death still effects him, and then he opens up emotionally to Peyton, and she dumps him. Also, he's a Marine and I assume that as a Marine he was told/taught to keep control of his emotions, that he had to do so in the face of war. But I think that we do see Mac be there emotionally, or at least try to, for his team - for Stella in All Access and The Ride In, for Danny in RSRD and Child's Play, for Lindsay in Obsession and Stealing Home, and Hawkes in Raising Shane. We've also seen him open himself up emotionally to Stella, Flack, and Hawkes. Just because Mac isn't as emotionally open/involved as Danny is doesn't, IMO, make him emotionally stunted. I always liked that Mac's emotion was expressed in a more subtle way than Danny's, it marks him out as a unique character. And we already have a very emotionally open/very emotionally involved lead CSI with Horatio in Miami. Mac is more like Grissom when it comes to emotions.

Great comments there with Mac and the emotions you guys, and I agree totaly. Re the emotionaly stunted comment, like you, I just cant see it - take the scene in Consiquences when Reed walks out, you can see the hurt on Mac's face, as in Blink when Mac is talking about Claire at the hospital, and at Ground Zero. He is just not as "heart on your sleave" as Danny, that doesnt make him stunted, just emotionaly repressed at worst. He tries to hard to keep them under control, and like you said, I think that will have a lot to do with his military training, his loss of Claire and also the events of his past. Peyton dumping him wont help matters either.

Thanks. Yes, I think scenes like those in Blink and Consequences definitely show Mac is emotionally repressed rather than emotionally stunted. And Peyton breaking up with him definitely did NOT help matters. Poor Mac. Well, we won't leave him!

EDIT- Gorgeous pic of Mac and Flack, FB. *drools* I especially like the Mac Arm Porn, yum.
And I like Adam too. He's a cutie. What is it about the men of NY and their General Hotness? Seriously, there must be something in the water.

If its the water I want to take a bath in it... :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:

With Mac right? Too late, I'm already in there! :devil: :devil: *splashes happily* :devil:

 

[Top41]

Fruitbat said:

Top41 said:

Guys, please try not to bring negativity into this thread, and keep the discussion on Mac and not on posters you disagree with. If you see something said about Mac that you don't agree with, counter it in the thread or in here, but don't complain about other posters voicing their opinions. Remember they have as much a right to their opinions as you do to yours. Thanks.

What and deal with all the cr*P I got on and off list the last time NO THANKS! I will keep my comments to the Mac thread (plus I did mention PM me with any comments so as to take it off list..). I voiced my opinion before *politely I may add* on general threads and the result was not pleasent. No specifics were mentiond here as far as I can see we just commented on our general feeling for whats been posted lately....which were posted here on the Mac Thread so as not to cause an uproar. * I learned from the last time not to voice thoughts elswhere*

I'm not sure what incident you're referring to--if you feel someone has flamed or trolled you on the board for expressing an opinion, please PM me with the specifics. All I was asking is that you keep the commentary on Mac and not other posters (specifically named or not) on the board. Thanks.

 

[Fruitbat]

Now that would be....... In fact you know what, why bother.

Now back to Mac...

MacsLady said:


Oooh, Mac/Flack fest, sounds like lots of wicked fun. :devil:

:devil: Yep VERY wicked.. :devil: :devil:

Thanks. Yes, I think scenes like those in Blink and Consequences definitely show Mac is emotionally repressed rather than emotionally stunted. And Peyton breaking up with him definitely did NOT help matters. Poor Mac. Well, we won't leave him!

Nope hes stuck with us...

If its the water I want to take a bath in it... :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:

With Mac right? Too late, I'm already in there! :devil: :devil: *splashes happily* :devil:

Move over....*splash*......

 

[Seren_y_Gogledd]

I also don't think Mac is emotionally stunted. I think the woman in "Silent Night" explained it best when she said he speaks with his eyes. The emotion is definitely there, he just doesn't let it out as much as others. It could be the military training, or perhaps because he's had that much cr*p thrown at him in his life, but if he was the type to yell and scream about everything he wouldn't be the same character we know and love - and certainly not much of a leader.

Now then, is it my turn in that bath? Please?

 

[Tequesta]

But will the sprinklers be enough? :devil: He might spontaneously combust :devil:

 

[Tequesta]

As i scrolled down the page, and saw more pics, each one as good as the last, I couldn't help but grin. So all I have to say is, eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!! (by the way, who are the handcuffs for? :devil: :devil:

 

[MacsLady]

Ok, Seren, it's your turn in the Hotness Bath with Mac now. :devil:
I agree with you that Mac shows his emotion through hia eyes and just doesn't express it as often as the others. Some people have said he doesn't really know how to connect to people or be there for others, but I think we have seen him be there for his team several times throughout the show. And I think he does connect to people -certainly to some of the victims - the woman in Blink for example, and if he's unsure how to connect to people in his own team emotionally, it's because of his military training and perhaps also all the c*ap he's had thrown at him in life - he made emotional connections with Claire and she died and with peyton who dumped him. And I actually think he has a very strong emotional connection to Stella. Just because he wasn't by her side all the time in All Access doesn't make him cold or emotionally stunted - he was being there for her in the way he knew she'd want - investigating the case and clearing her, and he left Flack, someone he trusts, to be by her side. I don't think Stella would have appreciated him hovering around her all the time anyway, and he was there for her at the end of that ep. The same goes for Danny in OTJ - Mac chose to investigate the case and clear Danny rather than be by his side like Flack was. And I loved how Mac is really there for Stella in The Ride In, and Danny in RSRD. Mac doesn't physically show emotion very often (like Grissom) so when he does, it makes you sit up and take notice.
Hmmm, I'd certainly like to connect with Mac, not just emotionally, but physically... :devil:
Tequesta, the cuffs are for Mac, but ties work too... :devil:
And you're right, he might spontaneously combust, we better make him even wetter... :devil: :devil:

 

[Top41]

MacsLady said:
And I loved how Mac is really there for Stella in The Ride In, and Danny in RSRD. Mac doesn't physically show emotion very often (like Grissom) so when he does, it makes you sit up and take notice.

I definitely agree with this...because Mac doesn't show emotion a lot, when he does reach out to a member of his team, it is significant. Particularly in RSRD--I thought it was great that he held Danny while Danny cried, but I also thought smoking those cigarettes was an act of love--showing that he was putting a lot of thought into the case and clearing Danny. He was very clearly doing that for Danny, and it made me think both he and Danny learned from what happened in OtJ. Danny learned he needed to listen to Mac, and Mac learned Danny needed emotional support as well.

 

[DakotaCal]

Thanks for the welcomes! Great posts! Where to begin...

First things first, can I get a chance to take a hotness bath with Mac too? :devil:

I thought it was great that he held Danny while Danny cried, but I also thought smoking those cigarettes was an act of love--showing that he was putting a lot of thought into the case and clearing Danny. He was very clearly doing that for Danny, and it made me think both he and Danny learned from what happened in OtJ. Danny learned he needed to listen to Mac, and Mac learned Danny needed emotional support as well.

Top41, I agree - I really think that one big way that Mac is there for his team is to go the extra mile in solving their case or clearing their name. He's not outwardly emotional like Danny, but he will do what it takes to help them.

Some people have called Mac 'emotionally stunted', which I don't think he is. I think he just struggles to acknowledge his own emotions and to open up emotionally even with those closest to him, perhaps because he is frightened/worried that he will get hurt somehow. I mean, his wife died, a woman he clearly loved deeply, and whose death still effects him, and then he opens up emotionally to Peyton, and she dumps him. Also, he's a Marine and I assume that as a Marine he was told/taught to keep control of his emotions, that he had to do so in the face of war.

Macslady - so true. And I don't think this is necessarily the same as being emotionally stunted. Granted, I suppose it depends on how widely the term should be applied. He's... careful... but not incapable of emotion.

Re the emotionaly stunted comment, like you, I just cant see it - take the scene in Consiquences when Reed walks out, you can see the hurt on Mac's face, as in Blink when Mac is talking about Claire at the hospital, and at Ground Zero.

Fruitbat, Blink to this day is one of my favorite episodes. I loooovvved Mac in those scenes related to his wife - the Ground Zero, and the scene where he talked about the beach ball. *sniff* I know they got the word to lighten up the show, but I think maybe they could have just backed off of the gray/blue color tones (which I thought were too much) and kept the dark emotions instead of getting rid of both. By the way, thanks for the pic. Yum! I love Flack too, although he's second to Mac.

I also don't think Mac is emotionally stunted. I think the woman in "Silent Night" explained it best when she said he speaks with his eyes. The emotion is definitely there, he just doesn't let it out as much as others. It could be the military training, or perhaps because he's had that much cr*p thrown at him in his life, but if he was the type to yell and scream about everything he wouldn't be the same character we know and love - and certainly not much of a leader.

Seren, I also agree that you mostly see Mac's emotions in his eyes and also in extremely subtle facial and body expressions. They are so understated, it's easy to miss, but I think it's there. (Great acting by Gary.) Also, your leader comment is really important. Good leaders have to make the tough choices and must stay calm in the face of hard times. They can't be reactionary, but thinkers. I've learned this myself - not that I'm any kind of a great leader - but I've found when people come to me with worrying questions, I just stay calm and the best solution is to deal with the problem, not sit there commiserating with them. I think this is what Mac does.

 

[Seren_y_Gogledd]

Gary himself said in *that* fiveUS interview, if you're dealing with a lot of death, a lot of gruesome things, you'd have to "shut down" that part of yourself just to make it through the day. It makes sense to me, seeing all those people who have suffered violent deaths, if you're emotionally connected to every one of them, you wouldn't last a month in a job like that.

 

[MacsLady]

I agree with both of you, DakotaCal and Seren. Like you say, DakotaCal, Mac's 'careful' with his emotions, and Gary shows Mac's emotion in such a subtle way that it's easy to miss...unless you're focusing on him every minute he's on screen like us Taylor Girls are. And like you both said, I think his control of his emotions is what makes him a good leader.
DakotaCal, of course you can have a turn in the Hotness Bath, jump in! :devil:

 

[DakotaCal]

Yay! Enjoying the bath right now! Mmmm.... hotness! :devil:

Hehe - MacsLady - it's so true that I focus on Mac much more than anyone else in the show. Besides, it's a lot of fun to look for subtleties. The characters are so much richer that way. I love that name - Taylor Girls.

Seren, it does make perfect sense to have to shut down when you deal with so much pain every day. I can't imagine constantly having to deal with evil killers, grieving families, and life robbed from people too soon.

Gary himself said in *that* fiveUS interview

Just curious, what is "that" interview you're talking about?

 

[MBGrissom]

Great discussion and insight into Mac's character once again, everyone!

I don't think it's any secret that I don't find Mac the least bit emotionally stunted. As some of you have pointed out, he's usually very careful in how much emotion he lets out (of course, there are those few times when we saw him lose his temper publicly and lash out) and quite frankly, keeping your emotions a bit more tightly wrapped is one of the hallmarks, IMO, of a good leader - as many of you have also pointed out.

Contrast that to someone like Danny, the resident over-emotional Drama Queen. It works for his character (although it can be extraordinarily annoying and unlikable, IMO, if carried too far & too often) but it would NOT work for Mac's character. Who would trust or respect Mac as a leader, if he wore his heart on his sleeve so overtly as Danny? It's great that Danny can unabashedly allow himself to feel so much, so often, and so publicly...but then again, Danny (In My Opinion) is definitely not leadership material. He might be someday, who knows, but only after he has learned, like Mac, to rein his emotions in a bit more.

 

[Fruitbat]

DakotaCal said:

Fruitbat, Blink to this day is one of my favorite episodes. I loooovvved Mac in those scenes related to his wife - the Ground Zero, and the scene where he talked about the beach ball. *sniff* I know they got the word to lighten up the show, but I think maybe they could have just backed off of the gray/blue color tones (which I thought were too much) and kept the dark emotions instead of getting rid of both. By the way, thanks for the pic. Yum! I love Flack too, although he's second to Mac.

I am so glad you feel that way, I do think the storylines and the scripts were so much better in season one, I liked the grittier more New York feel to the first season. There was a much darker feel to the first season and I don’t mean the blue tint to the episodes.

Seren_y_Gogledd said:
Gary himself said in *that* fiveUS interview, if you're dealing with a lot of death, a lot of gruesome things, you'd have to "shut down" that part of yourself just to make it through the day. It makes sense to me, seeing all those people who have suffered violent deaths, if you're emotionally connected to every one of them, you wouldn't last a month in a job like that.

I know what you mean, Mac has to have a level of detachment, and if you become emotionally involved then you can’t focus on the job at hand. Of course there will be cases that get under the skin even for someone as emotionally controlled as Mac and we have seen it happen...hell we have seen it happen to them all. We have also seen on all three shows that getting too emotionally involved can jeopardize the case and the lab.

P.S. Does anyone have *that* five us interview…I would LOVE to get my hands on it>

MBGrissom said:
Who would trust or respect Mac as a leader, if he wore his heart on his sleeve so overtly as Danny? It's great that Danny can unabashedly allow himself to feel so much, so often, and so publicly...but then again, Danny (In My Opinion) is definitely not leadership material. He might be someday, who knows, but only after he has learned, like Mac, to rein his emotions in a bit more.

Exactly it’s like Danny is the opposite of Mac's character the other extreme if you may. Danny gets too emotionally involved and it can cloud his judgment. Flack is the more even handed of the two, he is more in touch with his emotions, he can be guided by them, but he doesn’t allow them to get in the way. In consequences you could see the conflict he was angry at Mac for his Black and White view but in the end he knew Mac was right and he made the right decision to hand over the book to Mac.