Horatio/DC#14: Even heroes have the right to bleed

[mjszud]

^^^ I think that's the only thing that got me excited in last night's epi --- Horatio is finding himself again!! wootwoot!!

All I can really say is that it was really sweet, & I hope we see more of him this way -- though preferably with Kyle & with his team!
As much as I loved it, I kept thinking how nice it would've been to see him react this way to his team -- I miss that so much. I understand he has Kyle now, & that's his flesh & blood, but I always got the fuzziest feeling when we'd see Horatio look at the team as his own family as well. Sadly, we don't see it as much. I think I'd feel like Horatio was truly back if we could see that again. *pokes tptb*

 

[Delynn]

^^^ I think that's the only thing that got me excited in last night's epi --- Horatio is finding himself again!! wootwoot!!

All I can really say is that it was really sweet, & I hope we see more of him this way -- though preferably with Kyle & with his team!
As much as I loved it, I kept thinking how nice it would've been to see him react this way to his team -- I miss that so much. I understand he has Kyle now, & that's his flesh & blood, but I always got the fuzziest feeling when we'd see Horatio look at the team as his own family as well. Sadly, we don't see it as much. I think I'd feel like Horatio was truly back if we could see that again. *pokes tptb*

I agree that I'd like to see Horatio get back to interacting the way he used to with his team. But there really hasn't been a "Team" for quite a while.

I have a suspicion that the team will be experiencing some soul searching in season 8 - if the team as we have known it even manages to exist in its present form in season 8. We'll see. I have high hopes for some changes.

Maybe once Horatio has a team again, everyone on the same page and wanting to be there working with everyone and not just a select few, we'll see that part of him come back to life as well.

 

[MaddyAnn]

As much as there was a lot I liked of Horatio in yesterday's show, there were a few things that peeved me.

Horatio was wearing blue, which is amazing. But then about ten minutes in, he changes his shirt. Understandable, seeing as the old one had blood on it. But he changes into black. Why must he always wear black?

Seriously, Horatio didn't get a scene with Kyle? The poor boy was nearly hysterical after the grenade. And the way that Horatio said, "he's shaken but fine" to Calleigh was somewhat cold. I lost the connection I felt with the character earlier in the episode.

Still, there are signs of old-Horatio. Will he ever come fully back? No, probably not. But if the writers can keep up what they've been doing with H then I'll be a happy camper.

 

[HnStetlerfan]

As much as there was a lot I liked of Horatio in yesterday's show, there were a few things that peeved me.

Horatio was wearing blue, which is amazing. But then about ten minutes in, he changes his shirt. Understandable, seeing as the old one had blood on it. But he changes into black. Why must he always wear black?

Seriously, Horatio didn't get a scene with Kyle? The poor boy was nearly hysterical after the grenade. And the way that Horatio said, "he's shaken but fine" to Calleigh was somewhat cold. I lost the connection I felt with the character earlier in the episode.

Still, there are signs of old-Horatio. Will he ever come fully back? No, probably not. But if the writers can keep up what they've been doing with H then I'll be a happy camper.

I would've liked to see a scene with Horatio talking with Kyle and asking him if he was OK. Instead we got a little too much of him interacting with the other kids IMHO. To me this was a case of too much of a good thing. I thought his scenes with the other kids seemed a little forced, too, especially the scene at the end with the little girl on the swing.

I'm hoping we get more of the natural-acting Horatio in future episodes. I sure did love the way he acted with the victim in the previous ep. That really worked for me and was exactly like how he was in early eps when comforting victims.

 

[Delynn]

As much as there was a lot I liked of Horatio in yesterday's show, there were a few things that peeved me.

Horatio was wearing blue, which is amazing. But then about ten minutes in, he changes his shirt. Understandable, seeing as the old one had blood on it. But he changes into black. Why must he always wear black?

I'm thinking that he was it light blue at the start because it would show the blood better? And I would have much preferred him to change into another light colored shirt, too. But it was not to be.

Seriously, Horatio didn't get a scene with Kyle? The poor boy was nearly hysterical after the grenade. And the way that Horatio said, "he's shaken but fine" to Calleigh was somewhat cold. I lost the connection I felt with the character earlier in the episode.

I would've liked to see a scene with Horatio talking with Kyle and asking him if he was OK. Instead we got a little too much of him interacting with the other kids IMHO. To me this was a case of too much of a good thing. I thought his scenes with the other kids seemed a little forced, too, especially the scene at the end with the little girl on the swing.

I thought the two scenes with Horatio and Calleigh were just slightly better than they've been in the attempts since whatever happened that made it so horrible happened -- but not by much. They still have A LOT of work to do. They both still look very uncomfortable with each other and not real happy to be talkin' - IMHO!

I didn't like that we didn't get to see Horatio checking on Kyle, either. That was just wrong in so many ways! Especially when they had Horatio interacting with the waitress's children a couple of times. Adorable moments and it really did envoke images of the "old" Horatio, but I would have been a little more impressed if the ending scene would have been Horatio checking on his own child rather than someone elses. And if we're supposed to fill in the blanks and just assume it happened "off-screen", then the fans got cheated again! Too much of this show requires the fans to "fill in the moments". If you're not a good fan-fiction writer, you're screwed! :lol:

Still, there are signs of old-Horatio. Will he ever come fully back? No, probably not. But if the writers can keep up what they've been doing with H then I'll be a happy camper.

I'm hoping we get more of the natural-acting Horatio in future episodes. I sure did love the way he acted with the victim in the previous ep. That really worked for me and was exactly like how he was in early eps when comforting victims.

Agree with both of you! This episode might have tried just a little TOO hard to show us the old Horatio. I would have been more impressed if we had seen Horatio showing concern for Kyle - not to others, but to Kyle. MaddyAnn, you're right. Poor Kyle was really overwhelmed when that whole scene went down. Ryan was a godsend, bless him! But a little comforting from Dad would have been nice to see.

 

[mjszud]

I didn't like it either, & I do think it should've been there, but maybe it's because of this....

Spoiler: next epi

Julia heads to the looney bin. Perhaps tptb wanted to save the good father/son moments for this occasion.
The last episode focused on how Horatio knew that the young Mother was innocent & he knew exactly where those kids belonged. That may have been a "heads up" for what we'll see in 'Dissolved', assuming that Horatio will know that this time around, the Mother (Julia) is unfit.

 

[ladyjr8]

I'm still irked we didn't get a scene of H and Kyle together esp. as the medics were checking on Kyle for injuries that would have been a good moment to pat the boys shoulders or something...I agree that this episode leads us into the next and that Julia will need to be committed and as I'm against the poor woman firing guns at the morgue again w/Kyle standing there maybe that's good that Kyle sees that his mom is unfit rather than have Dad tell him. Then we'll get to see Horatio really bonding w/Kyle and saying don't worry kid I'm here for you now???

 

[MaddyAnn]

Just saw this on the promo for the next ep...

Spoiler: Spoilers

In the promo Horatio asks Kyle if he is alright. Kyle says (I think) "she's not getting any better." So it looks like we'll get some father/son moments next week. Horatio didn't look stiff in the scene either, so now I'm really looking forward to the ep.

 

[Delynn]

Just saw this on the promo for the next ep...

Spoiler: Spoilers

In the promo Horatio asks Kyle if he is alright. Kyle says (I think) "she's not getting any better." So it looks like we'll get some father/son moments next week. Horatio didn't look stiff in the scene either, so now I'm really looking forward to the ep.

Thanks, MaddyAnn! Sounds promising.

 

[mjszud]

Saw the promo. :thumbsup:

With the finale nearing & the new season ahead, anyone have a S8 wishlist going for what they want to see in/for Horatio?

 

[ladyjr8]

Horatio mentoring Kyle in the lab-pass on some of his knowledge and experience to the boy..Horatio 'being there' more for his team in a close way-not so distant. I know H has had a tough time but he has some happiness now too by way of family so he needs to reconnect with his work family...

 

[Delynn]

Horatio mentoring Kyle in the lab-pass on some of his knowledge and experience to the boy..Horatio 'being there' more for his team in a close way-not so distant. I know H has had a tough time but he has some happiness now too by way of family so he needs to reconnect with his work family...

I'm with you, ladyjr8. I'd love to see a lot more Horatio/Kyle and the team find a way to reconnect.

I'd also like for Horatio to be given not necessarily a love interest, but a female presence on the show who is strong and supportive (I keep seeing Stella on CSI NY). He was already on his own, but since Alex left he's so much more alone than he was before (The hug that Horatio and Alex shared was so poignant. It just made his loneliness all the more obvious.)

He needs someone who is equal to him. Not a Marisol who is clingy and needy, not a Julia who is pycho, not a Rebecca who is devious, ambitious and vengeful, but someone who has his values and shares his concerns. Someone who puts others first and cares about people. Someone he can talk to and share with. So far no one in his life has been unselfish enough to share his burdens - they've been too wrapped up in themselves.

I know it will never happen, but a girl can dream!

 

[mjszud]

To answer my own question , I think overall my biggest wish for H is to have him reconnect with the team. Since Kyle is now a permanent face there in the lab, there's chances for him to be both parent to his team, & to his own son.
I wouldn't mind him having an equal, as Delynn suggested, but I'd really like for the new season to concentrate on getting Horatio back in true form.

It just made his loneliness all the more obvious.)

That's just it though - he really shouldn't be. He has a son, he has Ray Jr. & Yelina, & his team. Is Horatio distant from the team & seemingly lonely because that's what we're supposed to be feeling/sensing with the character, or is it just sloppy writing from tptb?!!

Something has to give, & SOON! Perhaps Horatio needs one very big eye-opening event involving the team so he can finally reconnect with them.

 

[Delynn]

Well Julia finally suffered the ultimate meltdown - and she did it in front of not only Horatio, Ryan and Tara, but Kyle as well. She held a gun to her head and said good-bye to her son. How horrible for Kyle.

I have a few issues with Horatio in the last couple of episodes. First, as I've stated before, where was he when the grenade went off in the morgue? His comment to Calleigh indicated that he had spoken to Kyle, so maybe my issue is with the writers, but I think Kyle was far from just shaken and suddenly he's okay! When that grenade went off he was a little more than shaken, he was tramatized! Thank God for Ryan!

This episode, his mother is shooting up the morgue with Kyle there to witness it. Not only that, but he gets to watch her hold a gun on his friends/co-workers, then his father, then put a gun to her own head and threaten to pull the trigger. And Horatio still doesn't seem to be as focused on Kyle as he should be. Kyle needs his father. I hope next season we see Horatio place more emphasis on that aspect of his life. Especially now that Kyle's mother is not a part of his day to day life.

The scene in the hall with Horatio and Kyle was very good, however. Both David and Evan were outstanding. Their interaction was natural and comfortable.

I wasn't too thrilled with some of what Horatio said to Kyle. Kyle was telling his father that he couldn't deal with his mother anymore and Horatio almost reprimands him by telling him his mother has been through a lot lately. Well so has Kyle and it would be really nice if his father would recognize that and acknowledge when his teenage son is telling him that his bi-polar mother's actions are becoming more than he can deal with.

I realize that Julia needs help. Desperately! But how much of what Horatio is doing for Julia is born of guilt for not believing her when she said she didn't try to kill Saris and she didn't steal the pills from the morgue? The guilt that his failure to believe her caused him to remove Kyle from Julia's care - an act that may have finally sent her over the edge? How much is due to the fact that she is the mother of his son? And how much is because he still cares for her?

Horatio carries the weight of the world on his shoulders. Guilt is his constant companion and there is a wealth of it that has been visited on him due to the situation with Julia. He went to the judge to work out a deal because, not only is he an extremely compassionate and empathetic man, but he felt that his failure to believe Julia when she said she didn't steal the pills or threaten Saris, significantly added to the cause of her breakdown.

Horatio admitted to Julia that he was wrong and she was right. I'm not sure that is entirely true. While Julia didn't take the pills or threaten Saris, it was definitely not beyond the realm of possibly that she was responsible and when Horatio questioned her she was hostile and argumentative. Based upon the current information he had, her past behavior and her erratic current behavior, to consider Julia a viable suspect was logical and nothing Horatio needed to apologize for. And I'm not sure Horatio ever took Saris' acusation that Julia threatened to kill him seriously. I think it was his responsibility to ask her as the investigating officer.

While I think that Horatio still cares for Julia, I don't believe that he is still in love with her. I think he cares for her as a past love, as the mother of his son and as a human being in pain.

One has to wonder if he stops to consider Julia's part in her own demise. It was her decision to discontinue taking her medications for her condition - even after both Horatio and Kyle repeatedly requested that she take her medication. Horatio repeatedly pointed out to her that her behavior was slipping and to asked her to take her meds.

Julia refused. She has been bi-polar long enough to know that she needs her medication. I think that Julia is where she needs to be. Where she can get the help she so desperately needs.

Horatio has nothing to feel guilty about, but of course that won't stop him. I hope he doesn't wallow in it for too long. It's time to focus on the team and on Kyle.

 

[Delynn]

Well, the season finale was okay for me. I had an overall sense of relief when it came to Horatio.

Again, the promos were a lie. :brickwall: This time, Thank God! :angel:

In the promos we saw Horatio standing over a helpless Ivan asking, "Do you have a God, Ivan?" and then cutting to Horatio shooting Ivan in cold blood as he lies helpless on the pavement. All as they cut back and forth with words about good cops going bad.

Instead we again get a chance to see the compassionate Horatio shine. I know there has been some negative reaction to Horatio's actions when the police officer died (kissing the officer's head). I've seen reactions ranging from "ewww" to "homo" (that one I found very offensive, to be honest).

I found that moment very sweet and sad. Horatio has always been horribly upset whenever a police officer is killed. This is another example of the Horatio that drew me to CSI Miami to begin with. For those who complain about Horatio being distant, cold-blooded, inhuman, this was his human credential.

I sincerely hope that they continue Horatio's journey back to himself in season 8. And my sincerest wish is that journey includes a path back to his team.

It was great to see Horatio and Yelina back together again, although something was still not quite right with them. I loved Yelina kissing the bad guy in front of Horatio and her throwing the drink. Too cool! She is awesome and I wish she were still a regular on the show.

But there still seems to be a distance with those two. The "rescue" was exciting, but the "Are you okay?", and "Yes, thank you." indicates the coolness that has been present with those two for a while now. I wish they would give them a scene that gives a reason for this and resolves it.

While the rescue did give us a mild version of Super H, I didn't feel that it was over-the-top.

I was, however, surprised that Horatio was left out of the big shoot-out scene - until it was over. I then realized that scene was designed entirely to be a E/C moment - so I was glad he wasn't there.

We then come to the end. Horatio and Calleigh do "appear" briefly together. Again it comes across as ice-cold. There is no attempt by Horatio to comfort Calleigh in her distress about Eric's disappearance and possible injury. He simply comments in passing an assurance that they won't lose Eric and walks away. Another example of just how broken and uncaring that relationship has become.

And again, Horatio is made to look the villian in the Horatio/Calleigh dynamic for failing to provide comfort or "be there" for poor Calleigh in her time of need. IMO, behind the scenes demands that preclude that type of action should be taken into consideration before condeming the character.