H/Cal #5 - DuCaine...Absence Makes The Heart Grow Fonder

Hi, first time posting!

After All In, I felt the urge to comment. First off, I love Horatio and Calleigh as a ship. But (and please don’t hate me for saying what I’m about to say)… it would have been so awkward and (semi-) inappropriate for H last night. Not that I’m saying he couldn’t have said a few words to Calleigh after/about the incident, I was dying for that all episode. But I think it would have been hard to see him comforting/ reassuring her.

It would have been sooo out of character and unrealistic. I really wanted him to say something to her also, but considering the rollercoaster we’ve been on these past few seasons, it’s hard to come by. The distance between them is just too far. In early seasons, if this happened, H wouldn’t have even hesitated to “come to her rescue” emotionally, at least say a few words.

But post-Yelina/Raymond mess, post-Marisol, post-Brazil, post-Kyle, H doesn’t know where he fits in anymore. To have gone up to her in front of Ryan and Eric, especially Eric, would have been too much, too awkward. I really wish he said something, but of all things, H knows his boundaries. Especially now. He’s not blind – he’s noticed Jake and Eric both stepping into the role, the role H used to have.

Also, the last shot of the episode shows H standing off to the side watching the kidnappers being put away; I’m sure he saw Eric and Calleigh walk/drive off together. Considering H’s character, this scene would be even more evidence that he should back off. I’m sure he’s torn. But it’s not easy to go after Calleigh, post-Marisol, especially considering Eric’s position in Calleigh’s life now, which just adds more complications to the situation.

With Jake, Eric, arguably Ryan all swarming around her, being there for her, H just doesn’t know what his place is anymore. He doesn’t know how to close the gap since Yelina, Marisol, Brazil, etc. Seeing them around Calleigh, he certainly must feel unwanted, unneeded, out of place. Like any well-crafted character, H’s struggle is internal. It’s this extra layer of complexity that makes me love the pairing of H and Calleigh. It’s not St. Valentine’s Day and Hallmark cards. Their relationship, I think, has the most depth, whether it’s romantic or not. Their relationship is the most interesting to watch, to see it develop since the first season.

Okay, I’m finished. I’m eager to hear what you think about my over-analyzing ;-) . (And justification for why H and Calleigh have had little interaction past few seasons.) Please don’t hurt me! :)
 
Hey ulysses :) We wouldn't yell at you - I think we're all yelled out on this thread ;) (Well, maybe not, but you know what I mean...)

That was one of the most insightful analyses I've seen of the H/Cal relationship in a long time, and it was very good. I almost cried reading it (yea, I'm weird), but only b/c I think you're totally right. I was sooo sad after the ending of that episode last night, and I think you nailed exactly why. I never thought of it like that before, but now it's starting to make at least a little sense...:rolleyes:

But post-Yelina/Raymond mess, post-Marisol, post-Brazil, post-Kyle, H doesn’t know where he fits in anymore. To have gone up to her in front of Ryan and Eric, especially Eric, would have been too much, too awkward. I really wish he said something, but of all things, H knows his boundaries.
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I agree w/the whole "where do I fit in" thing — and I think that one goes both ways. H had the Marisol thing, and now Julia. Cal has Jake and now Eric. Where do H and Cal stand?

The scenes they've had in the last two eps seem awkward, and that can probably be attributed to the whole Julia/Kyle thing, and the Marisol debacle. For me, the make or break moment for DuCaine was Season 4's "Under Suspicion" - Cal was trying to get Horatio to open up, and was reaching out to him. But he chose a different path - w/Marisol - and it's only led him to grief.

As for last night, I can see the awkwardness w/Eric and Ryan around too - what's H's place there, amidst all that? He's been so distant from most of the team that for him to "intrude" on that moment might've been weird. However, he could've at least had a "moment" w/her - making eye contact, standing to the side like Tripp did, saying a word or two, etc., much like you said.

Also, the last shot of the episode shows H standing off to the side watching the kidnappers being put away; I’m sure he saw Eric and Calleigh walk/drive off together. Considering H’s character, this scene would be even more evidence that he should back off. I’m sure he’s torn. But it’s not easy to go after Calleigh, post-Marisol, especially considering Eric’s position in Calleigh’s life now, which just adds more complications to the situation.
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Ummm...yea, definitely. H would never step on Eric's toes, and the whole Marisol thing complicates matters. I keep thinking about that scene of H at the end, and wonder what he's thinking. I know part of the pain he seemed to be feeling had to be b/c of the Julia/Kyle situation. But he was watching those criminals walk out - the ones who kidnapped Cal. And he had to see Eric and Cal "drive off into the sunset," so to speak.

My theory on what H was thinking: This whole experience reawakened his feelings for Calleigh, but he knows he can't act on them. Maybe his angst was b/c he watched Eric do something he never could — tell Calleigh how he truly feels about her, and how devestating it would be to lose her. He knows it could've been him riding off w/Cal if this had happened three or four years ago. She showed him in "Ambush" that she still cares for him, but he kept his distance. Almost losing her probably made him rethink some things. He could've had someone to face the day with, but he blew it.

Especially now. He’s not blind – he’s noticed Jake and Eric both stepping into the role, the role H used to have.
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That's the point - the role H used to have. Even when she was w/Hagen, H stepped in, b/c he was in that role of comforter and whatnot. I always loved their easy chemistry and relationship, and I've missed it - now I think H might be missing it to. He sees Jake, and then Eric - it's gotta be weird for him.

H and Cal used to be so close, and you know he probably wanted to be there for her in "All In," but he couldn't. That to me is what makes this one of the most heartbreaking yet deep relationships in the show. The depth of love is sooo still there - you can see it all over Cal's face as she watched him leave for Brazil. But how do they express it? They used to banter and have this "protective" thing going on - but I've always thought that once H chose Marisol, their relationship changed.

He doesn’t know how to close the gap since Yelina, Marisol, Brazil, etc. Seeing them around Calleigh, he certainly must feel unwanted, unneeded, out of place. Like any well-crafted character, H’s struggle is internal. It’s this extra layer of complexity that makes me love the pairing of H and Calleigh. It’s not St. Valentine’s Day and Hallmark cards. Their relationship, I think, has the most depth, whether it’s romantic or not. Their relationship is the most interesting to watch, to see it develop since the first season.
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Yea, we're definitely not this "bling" couple, that's for sure. DuCaine is more about healing wounds and supporting one another. I'm not sure where this leaves them, but I really hope there would be some follow-up w/Cal and H in this regard, just something said in passing.

It's odd to me b/c H has been there for every other member of the team - even Natalia, remember that crying on the shoulder scene? - but he's not there for Cal. I guess he does feel but of place. But is he unneeded and unwanted? Never. If he would've only looked back at Cal before getting into that van, he would've seen how much she wants and needs him in her life.

Man, DuCaine is breaking my heart right now. They need to sort out all this stuff, seriously!

(OK, after all that, the song "Someday" by Nickleback is playing in my head ... definitely DuCaine song of the day right now! - "How the hell'd we wind up like this? Why weren't we able to see the signs that we missed and try and turn the tables?")

Alright - DuCaine still rules, but we need H to come back down to earth, yes?
 
Hello guys, yes I know your all ready to beat me with a ballbat, I just haven't been feeling the DuCaine love, I'm really glad they've gotten a scene since how long?? and it just made me love that moment that they had. :)
 
ulysses, you are so right! H would always be here for Cal in the old days but now that Marisol is gone, I don't think he wants another woman in his life b/c he doesn't want them to get hurt. If something happened to Cal, H would take the blame, again.

Anywho (my own word, don't question me!), my DuCaine story is coming along fine. It will be posted on my website (www.csiloverzed.co.nr) and fanfiction.net withen the next 2 weeks. Finally!:lol:

A hint- It's like Cinderella... with all the CSI:Miami chacters! I know so random.:cool: Cal is Cinderella and Horatio is Prince Charming!
 
Hi!

yeah, definitely, ulysses! I have gotten to see All In and I totally agree with you. It seems to me like Horatio feels that Calleigh is 'grown-up' now. She had been leading the lab, while Eric and he were in Brazil, and she did it perfectly fine. He has seen her evoluate. Horatio doesn't like Jake that much, but he just let Calleigh cope with it, it seems like he figured Calleigh was old enough to make her own decisions, even if it were the wrong. I also agree with the 'where do I fit in'- thing. In the beginning of CSI:Miami, they were all so close. But, since Marisol and H. who wanted to deal with it 'alone' (just like he said in the last episode of season 4 and just like everyone got to see in Rio) it seems like he has taken a step away from his team. And with discovering Kyle and everything, it seems like he just doesn't know howto make that step back to his team again. His team means everything to him, practically the whole thing he has still left. And when they are in danger, he will always do everything in his power to get them out of it. But where does he fit in? I also noticed one thing while I saw Ambush and All In.
Not only the fact that I have never seen Cal so scared in all the episodes, when Seth held her down. BUT: (alright, I know Eric found the fingerprints) Horatio is the only one who sees trough Cal's messages, who realises she has left them!

I just LOVE DuCaine, but I guess there would be sooner Calleigh/Eric than Calleigh/Horatio *dissapointed* :(

Alright, g2g

LIS
 
Yep - that's one of the things we can hang onto as DuCaine fans :) - H figured out every clue Cal left behind - from the fingerprints to the cigar to the flask to the baking soda ... He put it together b/c he knows her so well, and for so long. I thought it was interesting that he was the one following all of Cal's clues - especially the baking soda thing - why didn't the others see that? B/c H knows his bullet girl better than anyone, and when the chips are down (no pun intended), he's got her back 200%.

H drove that episode, which is why I was so surprised/disappointed that there was no resolution to those emotions. In rewatching the scene w/the "group hug," I saw it as H looking at his team - I think we were looking at things from H's perspective there, just like we had seen them from Cal's and Eric's. The last shot was of what H was seeing - he was watching over his team - that's what I'm going to assume, anyway ;)

OH, and did anyone else think of Season 3's "After the Fall" when Ron slammed his head against the table - the whole police brutality thing? I totally think H was flashing back to when Cal proved he was innocent of police brutality. "Never mess w/Calleigh Duquesne." Man, you know H was pissed in that scene, not being able to find his Bullet Girl.

I really loved the scene where he fingerprinted the flask, too, and not only b/c H looked smokin' in a lab coat :drool: Did anyone else notice how he paused briefly before unsealing the paper - like, it was special b/c Calleigh handled it. And I still love that little mad look in that scene before he interrogates the guy who poisened the flask. He's sooo pissed, it's awesome.

I also thought of that scene in "Lost Son," where Horatio says, "You saved me." I bet that ran through his mind in the ep., as well as the last time he saw her - she said she'd hold down the fort. He must've felt so terrible about that - if he hadn't had to go to Brazil, he might've been able to prevent all this from happening.

Well, anyway, Eric might've driven off w/Cal, but it was H that was the driving force behind her rescue. He saved her :)

BTW - where's the rest of our crew? (EmeraldEyes, HCrazy, SpeedsDaughter - c'mon, it's not that bad to be on this "ship," is it? :lol: It's the new "ship of hope" ;) ) Oh, and welcome to ulysses and welcome BACK CathStokes ;)

Anyway, Cal and H have done so much for each other, even though they haven't said the words we want to hear them say to each other. Maybe our new motto should be, "Actions speak louder than words"?
 
I am here, Ive just been going over these last few posts & wasn't sure how to say it, but here goes anyway.
Im kinda in disagreement w/ a few things. I don't believe Horatio is in anyway unaware of how he fits in w/ the team or Calleigh's life. They have a very special bond that's loaded w/ full respect & trust.
To me, Horatio has always seen Calleigh as an adult able to make her own decisions & when he sees that she is in need of his help, that's when he steps up.
I don't think it would have been at all inappropraiate for them to hug. First of all, yes, Im assuming H knows of Jake, but that doesn't mean that they can't hug or worry about one another.
That scene w/ Eric & Ryan consoling Calleigh & not Horatio, I just didn't see it as that big of a deal. I thought it showed that the whole team was concerned & releived that it ended the way it did.
Right now, Horatio & Calleigh both have alot on thier plate in thier personal lives, most likely thats why we are seeing the "break" between them. horatio up until Ambush has been practically MIA w/ the entire team, not just Calleigh. TPTB have put a load on his character, as always. this time though its his ex lover & son, so its more personal.
Let TPTB get all this out of thier system & before ya know it, Ducaine will have thier awesome moments again. They have to tell these stories first.
In that last scene, I didn't get the impression that H was watching Eric & Calleigh leave together. Even if he did, I honestly don't think it would give Horatio the impression that there is something more there.
If half the viewers can see it as NOT romantic then why would Horatio?
Most likely all he saw (if he even did, which I dont think he did) was 2 friends/co-workers. Horatio knows all too well how close the team is & that its "family", & he would probably be more than happy to see that someone who was a close friend (like Eric) to take her home & make sure she is alright.
Co-workers & friends can "hang out", be there for one another, engage in comforting moments, take each other home...it doesn't mean that its real love or that anything will come out of it.
Overall, I dont think Horatio feels out of place & I highly doubt he can see anything between Eric & Calleigh but a brother & sister bond, the one that has always been there between them.
TPTB have always put a HUGE emphasis on this team being like family, I just think Horatio would expect that all his team would come together for Calleigh...just as they all did.
:)

Ducaine will take some time, for now I am just thrilled they are back in scenes & the "bond" is still there. I can honestly say that there is nothing I could see that would ever break that between them. Its very solid, & that just leaves them w/ a good base for thier future & whatever will come of it.
:):)

ENDGAME;)
 
Yay, just seen 'all in'. Wow! H was so cool at the start and the whole episode was brillant, until the end. However i don't think that Eric and Cal are together. If they were, surely he'd of kissed her, so DuCaine could still happen. Also was it me or did they forget that Cal got hurt. Must be just me.

And i wouldn't worry CSILoverZed about your fanfic being random. Hey if i can come up with story involving werewolves (I'm on about the big hairy monsters that snarl and howl at the moon) then why not.
 
Hey mjszud - welcome back to the DuCaine thread ;)

To me, Horatio has always seen Calleigh as an adult able to make her own decisions & when he sees that she is in need of his help, that's when he steps up.
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Yea, that I totally agree with. He never thought she was anything less than capable. I'm sure he's proud of how Calleigh helped the team find her - what an awesome CSI she's become! ;) They've been together for so long, and for him to see her use all her know-how and resources — some of which H taught her — must've been inspiring for H. It reminded me of that "hairspray" scene in camp fear, where she used the hairspray to cast the tire tracks - H said, "I like it." Well, Cal took that to a whole new level in "All In," didn't she. You know H was proud of his Bullet Girl :)

I don't believe Horatio is in anyway unaware of how he fits in w/ the team or Calleigh's life. They have a very special bond that's loaded w/ full respect & trust.
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I kind of agree and disagree. I'm totally w/you in that they have a special bond - and they trust each other completely. I do think H is having problems fitting in w/the whole team, though, including Cal. His place in her life is sort of in question, I think, b/c he hasn't had a place for the longest time :rolleyes:, at least on-screen (which is what we're talking about). So I think there's a little bit of distance here for whatever reason - my theory being the Marisol and Julia/Kyle thing. Anyway, you're still right, though - they still have that bond, and it should shine through, much like it did in this two-parter, for the most part.

In that last scene, I didn't get the impression that H was watching Eric & Calleigh leave together. Even if he did, I honestly don't think it would give Horatio the impression that there is something more there.
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I'm torn on this - I guess b/c TPTB have been playing up the E/C thing all season, and it's hard for me not to see it that way. I wish I could've seen it as just a friend consoling a friend, but the actors themselves have said they've been told to play it up romantically, so I guess I'm just assuming that's what was going on. I really hope that it was just friendly, and (w/out getting into it too much), I think for Calleigh it was. For Eric, it might be a different story b/c he's been crushing on her all season.

Anyway, I would like to think H was watching over Calleigh after all that, and that's why he was standing off to the side, just kind of watching things unfold. Maybe he asked Eric to look after her?

I don't think it would have been at all inappropraiate for them to hug. First of all, yes, Im assuming H knows of Jake, but that doesn't mean that they can't hug or worry about one another.
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It definitely would've been nice to see H put a hand on her shoulder - and a hug would've been out of this world! I mean, although we only saw it for a brief couple of seconds, Calleigh did grab H's arm in that scene in "Ambush" - she connected to him, and I just wish he would've done the same. It would've given the whole thing much more closure.

Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful for what we got, and I'm glad TPTB seem to have heard us in that we want them in scenes again, so I thank them for that :)

Ducaine will take some time, for now I am just thrilled they are back in scenes & the "bond" is still there. I can honestly say that there is nothing I could see that would ever break that between them. Its very solid, & that just leaves them w/ a good base for thier future & whatever will come of it.
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YES! Agree 100% with this :) It seemed like DuCaine was on life support for awhile - and at one point flatlined :wtf: — but it's definitely been revived and is on the mend ;)

In the end, I think everybody's bringing up interesting points here, and I'm just glad we can finally discuss our ship again - and debate their ACTUAL interaction :eek: Keep the DuCaine love alive ;)
 
Hey y'all! (Wow, I think I've written this in every thread I've posted today... sad.)

I finally got to see the two eps yesterday - All that DuCaine was absolute GOLD. When Horatio was being led off, the look on Calleigh's face was absolutely heartbreaking. I could tell that she wanted to be with him, or to save him. Horatio? He was being strong for her. :)

And in "Ambush", when Eric tells him about the kidnapping, the "We've gotta find her!" was PERFECT.

Though the best part was the "heist" scene. The sight of Eric, Frank & Ryan (almost forgot their names :lol:) at the poker had me in tears with laughter. And when Horatio cued Calleigh... just perfect. I agree with everyone, even a hand on her shoulder from H would've been nice. TPTB couldn't even give us that? Awww...
 
This is more or less what we've been saying all along, but specifically in response to mjszud. You gave me a lot to reanalyze – which I love.

I agree with you that the Eric and Calleigh ending scene is not a big deal. I think it's a bigger deal to Eric, but for Calleigh, she didn't reciprocate in anyway romantically. She saw it as friendship, I think, more than he did especially since we've seen him in a quasi-jealous state over her relationship with Jake. But all she said after his confession of "I don't know what I would've done, etc." was "okay." And I also agree that Horatio could have merely seen the whole last scene as a "family/team being there for each other" situation. Of course, whether he really saw them walking away together is an issue, but in this argument, I think it has to be assumed.

But I think the major thing that at least I've noticed is that he's there physically and definitely emotionally, but there's a distance. He is concerned from a distance (This distance is compared with earlier seasons.) He comes to the rescue of all… Ryan, Eric, Natalia, Calleigh… all of them, but then he takes a step back. Whether it's because they're all adults, whether it's because that's his character, whether it's because he has a crap ton of problems of his own is submitted for debate. Maybe he's been that way all along???

Also, hug, touch, words, contact, anything when Calleigh is found… I don't know. Horatio doesn't do that. He's not a touchy-feely guy haha. The last time he's hugged someone from his team… can't remember… did he ever hug Eric these past few seasons? The only big one I remember is, of course, H and Calleigh's hug after Speedle died. The first one. The biggest one. The most surprising and rewarding one. And it's not only because I ship H/C. But it was a private moment. Even with Natalia about her crazy ex… in the quiet of the locker room. I really can't imagine him embracing Calleigh in front of everyone, can't imagine him saying something to her in front of Ryan and Eric and Tripp. It would have blown my mind if he even did what Eric and Ryan did, which was merely touch her arm, shoulder, whatever. It's really a step out of character, out of pattern, out of what we've seen from him. That's not something he really does. If Horatio has something to say, whether it's a compliment, an encouragement, a piece of advice, a gentle interrogation, he does it in private, one on one, face to face, without anyone in earshot. The question becomes if he had something to say to her, why didn't he? If he wanted to comfort her, reassure her, why didn't he? Did we run out of minutes in the episode? Who knows.

I guess I'm looking at this as if I were the writer of the episode. If the Horatio/Calleigh relationship weren't a big deal, the episode would have ending first with the criminals being cuffed and walked to the police cars, then the Eric/Calleigh scene… Just end it there with the two driving away. Cut to credits. Except, the writer didn't do that… That could have been a perfect ending that way too, (to go along with the "family/team" thing, or even to make E/C supporters jump for joy) but the thing that plagues me is that closing shot of Horatio standing in the background. The episode didn't have to end that way, but it did. For a reason, I hope… ANY reason. I think this is just my way of trying to figure out that reason. I'd certainly hope it's not JUST because the show has gotten accustomed to end with a shot of H; I mean, that would just be horrid writing, horrid endings all around. Because he's the head of the team? Yeah, maybe, very well could be, that wouldn't shock me. Doesn't necessarily have to do with Calleigh. He's standing guard like he always is? Five o'clock and all is well… That answer wouldn't shock me either, I guess.

If the Horatio/Calleigh relationship weren't in a somewhat shaky in-between, he could have easily stepped up, at least step into the frame with Tripp, Ryan, Eric. But he doesn't, he is MIA. Considering how much time and effort and clues he picked up on and personally went over, he should have been there. The question all along has been why he wasn't. The scene could be from his POV, as someone else pointed out, but there's that distance again. Always with the distance, just watching like in the end.
 
yeah, ulysses, I do think the same about it! ;) To me it seems like Horatio is someone that shows how much he actually cares in little words. I know a lot of people who do the same. They only hug me or say something really caring when we are alone. I guess Horatio's more like that 2

LIS
 
I think H just has wayyyy too much S*&t going on in his personal & has since S4.
You are right about H though, he tends to release his concern during those one on one quiet moments. to me, its nice though because it shows his bond w/ each individual character.
I don't recall any hugs for the team except w/ cal & his "shoulder lean on" w/ Natalia. Horatio is just that guy who wants to support anyone & everyone & be there when they need someone.

I think maybe some look at Ducaine as being "distant" just simply becuase we had that awful drought for a whole season & 1/2.
That last shot of H standing "guard". My first impression was that it was just him looking out & being relieved that everything was ok & that Calleigh was saved. Thats just the impression I got from that scene. I think if TPTB were trying to express that Horatio had seen her & Eric, then they would have flashed back & forth on H, then e/c, then H again. TPTB love Horatio they always seem to end it on him anyway in some way:lol:I think thats all it was.

Overall, Ambush at least brought them a step closer to the way they used to be. he didn't get to hug her or take her home, but we still got that scene in Ambush w/ the "ive got your back" , the arm touch, & the priceless look on Calleigh's face when he was leaving. That was enough for me. That moment showed they still have the good bond, regardless that they've been off screen for over a year.

If you think about it, he hasn't been involved w/ ANY members of the team this season, he had his little heart to heart w/ Ryan, but really he hasn't shown much support for poor suffering Eric either. I just think the new story w/ Kyle & Julia is taking away what we would normally see w/ Horatio & the whole team. Julia will be gone eventually, to some extent, he'll have Kyle back & then maybe TPTB can refocus him on his team next season. Sure there will be drama :rolleyes:but hopefully it will revolve around the lab/work & bring us some good Ducaine scenes to enjoy!!!:)
 
Hi!

mjszud, I totally agree with you about H looking over at E/C (I just can't believe I said E/C ) & everything else! ;) the look on Calleigh's face as H left was so devastated! I don't actually know how to say it. Priceless. Surely. But where do they actually touch arms? Haven't seen it, I guess. :(

xx

By the way, Zed, I reviewed your story onn fanfiction.net ;) mine are nearly on every possible fanfiction site of CSI:Miami. LIS, my friend, just posted them everywhere! ;)
 
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