Grade 'Justified'

[Country233]

There was a case on 48 Hours last night, where an abused wife shot her husband. I was on the fence about that case, as in the fictional NY one. Sure she was an abused woman but she left the guy then went back to him. But even that wasn't the problem I had, she shot the guy 3 times. If you're shooting at an attacker, I don't know it you'd shoot that many times. Plus she said herself that he had a brain injury from a motorcycle wreck. Over time I have become much more of a pacifist and don't believe in killing anyone, so these cases trouble me. As in the NY case, abused people would be better off to tell someone; rather than creating justice for themselves. It is bad to kill, but they end up in prison, so it doesn't give them any freedom by killing the bad person.

 

[La_Guera]

There was a case on 48 Hours last night, where an abused wife shot her husband. I was on the fence about that case, as in the fictional NY one. Sure she was an abused woman but she left the guy then went back to him. But even that wasn't the problem I had, she shot the guy 3 times. If you're shooting at an attacker, I don't know it you'd shoot that many times. Plus she said herself that he had a brain injury from a motorcycle wreck. Over time I have become much more of a pacifist and don't believe in killing anyone, so these cases trouble me. As in the NY case, abused people would be better off to tell someone; rather than creating justice for themselves. It is bad to kill, but they end up in prison, so it doesn't give them any freedom by killing the bad person.

Yes, because telling people always fixes everything, and no abusers get off on technicalities or with light sentences that give them more opportunities to terrorize and abuse their prey. There are too many people who have trusted the system and died for it.

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

the way i see it is that he obviously knew he'd done wrong - i know he said he had no regrets/remorse, but he knew the difference between right & wrong (which might preclude an insanity defence anyway i think), i would've thought a better option would be to get him counselling/therapy/something like that but let him continue his life. after all his mother punished him enough, without them coming down on him like a ton of bricks too.

Well, I don't personally think a mental instution is 100% the right move either. I was just saying it would be at least a bit better than jail (where there would no doubt be a greater risk of him being violated in ways that no one, especially a child should be violated - although I'm not saying it isn't possible that something like that could happen in a mental facility as well). But I agree that he and the other kids should have gotten counseling/therapy.

Yes, because telling people always fixes everything, and no abusers get off on technicalities or with light sentences that give them more opportunities to terrorize and abuse their prey. There are too many people who have trusted the system and died for it.

Yep, and this is why the broken system needs a major reworking.

 

[Country233]

Yes, because telling people always fixes everything, and no abusers get off on technicalities or with light sentences that give them more opportunities to terrorize and abuse their prey. There are too many people who have trusted the system and died for it.

Blood thirsty people on this board. There are many bad people in the country but killing them isn't the answer. Two wrongs doesn't make a right. Since when is believing murder is wrong a sin?

 

[Country233]

Flack is my least favorite on the show, he is just a cocky ass cop. He and Danny tackling that big oaf? Really stupid. I tweeted, "Flack is a damn fool!"

I'm curious, but how is Flack just a "cocky ass cop"? I'm sorry but if Flack is "cocky ass" then what is Danny? Or even Mac? Are they just cute teddy bears? They aren't cocky ass cops either? Mac isn't self-righteous and cocky when he's confronting suspects? Danny has never been cocky? They've all had their cocky moments, so why is Flack the only "cocky ass cop"? Is it because he's more street-smarts than the CSIs who are more science-based?

And if Flack is a damn fool, then so was Danny for joining that fight, it's not just Flack's fault. And honestly, it's not like none of the CSIs haven't done anything like that before, I don't see why Flack should be singled out, Mac, Stella, Danny, and almost all the others have done things this crazy without back-up, and Mac is even a worst offender when it comes to this kind of stunt more than anyone.

I agree with this, and I'll throw Lindsay's hat into the ring for a "cocky" award too. With such cringe worthy scenes as the "I ROCK!" scene and lines like, "I'm smart. I'm really smart," she's just as cocky as the rest of them. As far as I'm concerned Flack isn't nearly as cocky as the other characters. In fact he's more self depreciating than the others with telling the CSI's to explain their scentific stuff to someone "with just a high school education" and other lines that have made it sound like he doesn't think he's as smart as the others.

ETA: If you watch the scene where Danny and Flack go after the big dude, you can see that Danny is the one who is all gung ho about going after the guy. Flack is hesitant and only goes in after Danny has already taken off (with a big smile on his face). I think he just went in to back up Danny and Danny was the "damn fool" for being so eager to take on the guy.

It is a matter of preference, we all have our favorites. Just because I don't like Flack doesn't mean the others are any better or worse than he is.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

I'm curious, but how is Flack just a "cocky ass cop"? I'm sorry but if Flack is "cocky ass" then what is Danny? Or even Mac? Are they just cute teddy bears? They aren't cocky ass cops either? Mac isn't self-righteous and cocky when he's confronting suspects? Danny has never been cocky? They've all had their cocky moments, so why is Flack the only "cocky ass cop"? Is it because he's more street-smarts than the CSIs who are more science-based?

And if Flack is a damn fool, then so was Danny for joining that fight, it's not just Flack's fault. And honestly, it's not like none of the CSIs haven't done anything like that before, I don't see why Flack should be singled out, Mac, Stella, Danny, and almost all the others have done things this crazy without back-up, and Mac is even a worst offender when it comes to this kind of stunt more than anyone.

I agree with this, and I'll throw Lindsay's hat into the ring for a "cocky" award too. With such cringe worthy scenes as the "I ROCK!" scene and lines like, "I'm smart. I'm really smart," she's just as cocky as the rest of them. As far as I'm concerned Flack isn't nearly as cocky as the other characters. In fact he's more self depreciating than the others with telling the CSI's to explain their scentific stuff to someone "with just a high school education" and other lines that have made it sound like he doesn't think he's as smart as the others.

ETA: If you watch the scene where Danny and Flack go after the big dude, you can see that Danny is the one who is all gung ho about going after the guy. Flack is hesitant and only goes in after Danny has already taken off (with a big smile on his face). I think he just went in to back up Danny and Danny was the "damn fool" for being so eager to take on the guy.

It is a matter of preference, we all have our favorites. Just because I don't like Flack doesn't mean the others are any better or worse than he is.

I didn't say anyone was "better" or "worse" than he is. I was illustrating that calling him and him alone "cocky" and a "damn fool" doesn't make a lot of sense given the canon of the show.

 

[La_Guera]

Yes, because telling people always fixes everything, and no abusers get off on technicalities or with light sentences that give them more opportunities to terrorize and abuse their prey. There are too many people who have trusted the system and died for it.

Blood thirsty people on this board. There are many bad people in the country but killing them isn't the answer. Two wrongs doesn't make a right. Since when is believing murder is wrong a sin?

It isn't, but to sit in judgment the abused and claim that people who are routinely in fear for their lives should trust in a flawed system that routinely fails them and allows them to be further brutalized and take the high road is ridiculously sheltered and idealistic. Ideally, the law would always protect the weak and abused, and it tries, but it fails too often for me to pass judgment on the abused and terrorized person who chooses to defend themselves and permanently end the threat.

 

[talkingtocactus]

^ i want a "like" button, dammit!

Sure she was an abused woman but she left the guy then went back to him.

i don't think that should be an issue when judging her for killing him. many many abused partners return to their abuser many times - this is because abuse (of any variety, sexual, physical or psychological) erodes the abused party's confidence to the point where they genuinely feel worthless and as though they would be unable to survive by themselves. of course to outsiders it seems perverse, but if someone repeatedly tells you or makes you feel that worthless, then you start to believe them. abusers frequently tell their abused that they'll never find someone else, no one else will ever find them attractive, no one else will ever see any point in their existence etc, and the abused can start to believe this even if they are a strong person and/or had self confidence to begin with. it's a classic abuse pattern, so her returning to him is more symptomatic of that than of whether her shooting him was an offence.

But even that wasn't the problem I had, she shot the guy 3 times. If you're shooting at an attacker, I don't know it you'd shoot that many times. Plus she said herself that he had a brain injury from a motorcycle wreck.

i would, i'd want to be sure!:lol: seriously tho. i think the number of shots speaks more to the rage and pent up frustration behind the shooting. one shot is very clinical, if someone is in that position of just snapping like that then multiple shots seems more likely.

as for the brain injury, well, yes it's a mitigating factor for the abuse maybe (although NOT an excuse) but that doesn't give him carte blanche. of course in an ideal world they both would've had outside help in dealing with the injury and affects thereof but that doesn't often happen when it should.

abused people would be better off to tell someone; rather than creating justice for themselves. It is bad to kill, but they end up in prison, so it doesn't give them any freedom by killing the bad person.

the problem with that is that telling people (even allegedly neutral people) rarely has much impact. unless there is actual physical/sexual violence that is reported at the time at which it happens even the authorities don't have much option but to do nothing (which, btw, is wrong and should change, but that's how things stand)

Well, I don't personally think a mental instution is 100% the right move either. I was just saying it would be at least a bit better than jail (where there would no doubt be a greater risk of him being violated in ways that no one, especially a child should be violated - although I'm not saying it isn't possible that something like that could happen in a mental facility as well). But I agree that he and the other kids should have gotten counseling/therapy.

ah, fair dos, in that case yes, i agree. actually in this country kids have just as much susceptibility to abuse in care/foster homes as from parents so it's kind of a choice between rocks or hard places, sadly

Yes, because telling people always fixes everything, and no abusers get off on technicalities or with light sentences that give them more opportunities to terrorize and abuse their prey. There are too many people who have trusted the system and died for it.

Yep, and this is why the broken system needs a major reworking.

exactly!

 

[Country233]

^ i want a "like" button, dammit!

Sure she was an abused woman but she left the guy then went back to him.

i don't think that should be an issue when judging her for killing him. many many abused partners return to their abuser many times - this is because abuse (of any variety, sexual, physical or psychological) erodes the abused party's confidence to the point where they genuinely feel worthless and as though they would be unable to survive by themselves. of course to outsiders it seems perverse, but if someone repeatedly tells you or makes you feel that worthless, then you start to believe them. abusers frequently tell their abused that they'll never find someone else, no one else will ever find them attractive, no one else will ever see any point in their existence etc, and the abused can start to believe this even if they are a strong person and/or had self confidence to begin with. it's a classic abuse pattern, so her returning to him is more symptomatic of that than of whether her shooting him was an offence.

But even that wasn't the problem I had, she shot the guy 3 times. If you're shooting at an attacker, I don't know it you'd shoot that many times. Plus she said herself that he had a brain injury from a motorcycle wreck.

i would, i'd want to be sure!:lol: seriously tho. i think the number of shots speaks more to the rage and pent up frustration behind the shooting. one shot is very clinical, if someone is in that position of just snapping like that then multiple shots seems more likely.

as for the brain injury, well, yes it's a mitigating factor for the abuse maybe (although NOT an excuse) but that doesn't give him carte blanche. of course in an ideal world they both would've had outside help in dealing with the injury and affects thereof but that doesn't often happen when it should.



the problem with that is that telling people (even allegedly neutral people) rarely has much impact. unless there is actual physical/sexual violence that is reported at the time at which it happens even the authorities don't have much option but to do nothing (which, btw, is wrong and should change, but that's how things stand)




ah, fair dos, in that case yes, i agree. actually in this country kids have just as much susceptibility to abuse in care/foster homes as from parents so it's kind of a choice between rocks or hard places, sadly

Yes, because telling people always fixes everything, and no abusers get off on technicalities or with light sentences that give them more opportunities to terrorize and abuse their prey. There are too many people who have trusted the system and died for it.

Yep, and this is why the broken system needs a major reworking.

exactly!

I give up posting about this stuff. I am not a debater and I realize my views are not typical. But quite frankly I don't really care about people all that much as a rule. Less and less as time goes by, but that stems from my own flawed views of humanity. So I withdraw from posting.

 

[La_Guera]

Ah, the misanthropic emo argument has reared its head. ~gets out her Stradivarius formed from the tears of the tragically misunderstood. Rosins bow with lack of give a damn.~

 

[Top41]

Guys, let's play nice here. Country233, you are of course entitled to your views, but when you go around calling people who disagree with you "bloodthirsty," you can't really expect to get a great response. Keep to the topic and don't make it personal by throwing out insults.

 

[Grissom rules]

I really liked this last episode!!!The case was great!!Many twists and turns plaeyd out this time.Characters' inteactions were also good!!!

It's an A!!!

 

[Ninja0980]

Like I said before,people shouldn't be given a green light to take justice into their own hands, but the sad thing is in so many cases the system that is supposed to protect those who need it the most doesn't.
There was a case in my area where a husband beat his wife with a baseball bat and put her into a coma. While she struggled to recover, he was let OUT on bail and ended up finishing the job he started. The system failed to do its job.
Another case in our area had teachers reporting child abuse of a young girl to CPS. CPS went out to the house in question and decided that her not being fed enough and being locked in her room didn't merit removal from the home. End result, she ends up dead. Another case of the system failing.
IMO, this episode is like Prey,where Dana finally killed the man who had been stalking her. When the system that is supposed to do its job doesn't, what are you supposed to do?

 

[Country233]

Guys, let's play nice here. Country233, you are of course entitled to your views, but when you go around calling people who disagree with you "bloodthirsty," you can't really expect to get a great response. Keep to the topic and don't make it personal by throwing out insults.

I was not insulting people. I think this topic about a fictional show is getting out of hand. All I stated was an opinion and everyone is on my case.

 

[Top41]

Guys, let's play nice here. Country233, you are of course entitled to your views, but when you go around calling people who disagree with you "bloodthirsty," you can't really expect to get a great response. Keep to the topic and don't make it personal by throwing out insults.

I was not insulting people. I think this topic about a fictional show is getting out of hand. All I stated was an opinion and everyone is on my case.

People disagreeing with your opinion is not the same thing as getting on your case. If they had called you names or insulted you personally, that would have been out of line. But stating that they don't agree with you and saying why is not getting on your case.

Honestly, it's an interesting debate, and people are going to bring differing opinions to the table. It's kind of cool when a fictional show can bring up a debate like this.

I fall in the camp of sympathizing with the abused person. Carver should have stepped in and done something for his nephews and niece. I can see how a fourteen-year-old kid would feel like he had no choice but to do what he did. There are times where there are mitigating circumstances, and it's nice that the show sees the shades of gray in these cases. It's not like you can look at killing an abuser and killing someone for money or jealousy or something in the same light.

I went ahead and gave the episode an A-. It was nice to see Mac being wrong for once, and I like that Jo pulled him back from the edge before he went and accused Carver without evidence. Danny and Flack tackling the suspect was silly, but it was a nice change of pace from their typical chase scenes, which have gotten pretty routine by this point.