Grade 'Justified'

[GregNickRyanFan]

Why did they feel the need to show the guy stomp on the woman's head in the beginning of the episode? That whole scene was uncomfortable to watch. The stomp was just a little too much, I think.

Loved Danny and Flack double teaming the big dude though, even if he did kind of kick their butts lol... the tackle looked awesome.

Adam trying to get Mac's attention was cute.

I kind of hate to say it, but if the mother did that much damage physically to those kids, then she kind of deserved what she got. He should have come forward when he was a kid though because if he showed them his wounds, I doubt there's a jury anywhere that would confict him. I'm glad the DA didn't take it to trial though. Even if he did plan it, he was really trying to save his siblings from the abuse that he went through.

 

[Country233]

...I kind of hate to say it, but if the mother did that much damage physically to those kids, then she kind of deserved what she got. He should have come forward when he was a kid though because if he showed them his wounds, I doubt there's a jury anywhere that would confict him. I'm glad the DA didn't take it to trial though. Even if he did plan it, he was really trying to save his siblings from the abuse that he went through.

My problem, as with Mac, is that he planned out her murder. It is one thing to snap in the moment of being beaten but to seek her out and stab her? I realize she wasn't going to win Mother of the Year awards, but still the kid or ole Carver should've taken charge and put her in jail rather than murdering her.

 

[Country233]

I didn't think it was that graphic, TBH. As far as the time slot goes, I don't think they should change the nature of the show because it's hour earlier. I also think the FCC goes way overboard bothering to bleep out curse words - it just draws more attention to them. When I was in London I can't remember a single time that a swear word was bleeped out - and I think that the US should adopt that policy, TBH. It'd be so much less annoying.

There are plenty of shows on at 8:00 that I wouldn't consider to be family friendly - House and Bones are often very graphic.

I agree the beeping irks the hell outta me. I mean, kids are going to notice the beeps and read their lips rather than just going on watching the show

 

[La_Guera]

"No cop fails to report his missing weapon."

Oh, really, Mac? How soon we forget Danny's failure to report the theft of his service weapon by Rikki Sandoval and his even more egregious failure to report the theft of his badge for months while it was in the hands of a deranged serial killer. You know, the failure to report that resulted in the murder of a prison guard, the abduction of said guard's family, and the death of an inmate. That one. Danny is a cop, a good one from a long line if cops if we're to swallow the ludicrous retconning of his backstory in S4/5, and yet, he failed to report the loss of his weapon and his badge for fear that it might reflect poorly on him. So, why is it so unfathomable that Ted Carver would likewise fail to report the loss of his weapon? No cop wants to appear incompetent, let alone one with aspirations of advancement who'd given his gun to a battered woman for protection.

Once again, Mac's blind, nauseating self-righteousness reared its head. Once Carver's scent was in his nose, the holier-than-thou bug clamped onto his ass and refused to let go until the nephew confessed. I firmly believe that if Jo hadn't had the balls to give him the business, Mac would have arrested Carver with nothing but his gut and a smattering of circumstantial evidence and wound up hoisted by his own petard. Mac owes Jo a debt of gratitude for refusing to allow him to run headlong into disaster, but Mac, of course, will not see it this way. In fact, he doesn't acknowledge her good advice or prudence at all, but pats himself on the back for his saintly beneficence when Jo asks about Ted Carver's fate and reveals that the nephew will get off with time served.

Since Carver was fired and stripped of his pension for dereliction of duty and failure to report his sister's murder, Mac will suffer no professional backlash for falsely accusing a superior of murder and suspecting him of another. He won't even suffer any personal recrimination because Carver isn't angry that Mac has aired his dirty laundry and arrested his nephew. In fact, he is grateful, and gladly allows Mac to be a patronizing tool. How convenient, that. The only cop that has ever had the nuts to call Mac on his patronizing douchery was Flack in S3, and even he got shamed into silence with Mac's self-righteous moralizing.

Just once, I'd like to see someone think Mac Taylor is a raging asswad even though he's one of the good guys.

Oh, Flack, I know you think you're a big dog, and most of the time you are, but watching you and Danny tussle with that hulking suspect was like watching two rat terriers trying to fell a raging wildebeest. Your poor face. Next time, use your taser and your mace and your legion of blue uniforms instead of your ego and your fists.

B- A good episode brought down by criminal amounts of Mactimony.

 

[talkingtocactus]

^ i totally agree with you about the convenient memory loss about danny's habit of misplacing things and not reporting it, and i also agree that jo saved mac from probably a significant epicfail scenario by stopping him arresting carver *and* that mac should've got it in the arse with some repercussions over pointing fingers at superiors, but y'know, i still think mac's ace

the flack/danny thing was fun tho, and that is *exactly* what it was like!

 

[ruby&theheadmen]

I am sorry that this episode, like the one about an abusive mother in CSI Miami a while back, is advocating some how that it is acceptable for children to sneak up on the abusive parent and commit murder-no matter what type of abuse a parent or caregiver does in my opinion there is always another solution for the victim besides murder and this was cold blooded, calculated murder- the young man should have been imprisoned and removed from society. I argued something similar in vain when this theme came up in an episode of CSI Miami. I have to come to the following conclusion:a story told once by a franchise or entity can be seen as just a story- twice, however, it's looking more like propaganda. Why this concept is being sold to the public I do not know, but I do find it to be reprehensible and irresponsible on the part of many parties.

New York is a great show, they don't need to go to the gutter to find story lines this one. Let's hope that such a theme will not be repeated in the future.

 

[La_Guera]

I am sorry that this episode, like the one about an abusive mother in CSI Miami a while back, is advocating some how that it is acceptable for children to sneak up on the abusive parent and commit murder-no matter what type of abuse a parent or caregiver does in my opinion there is always another solution for the victim besides murder and this was cold blooded, calculated murder- the young man should have been imprisoned and removed from society. I argued something similar in vain when this theme came up in an episode of CSI Miami. I have to come to the following conclusion:a story told once by a franchise or entity can be seen as just a story- twice, however, it's looking more like propaganda. Why this concept is being sold to the public I do not know, but I do find it to be reprehensible and irresponsible on the part of many parties.

New York is a great show, they don't need to go to the gutter to find story lines this one. Let's hope that such a theme will not be repeated in the future.

Propaganda? Really? Because they've had two shows in ten years about an abused individual killing their abuser? In an ideal world, no abused person would feel so trapped as to see no other choice but to kill their abuser, but this world is not ideal, and people who are pushed too far sometimes snap. Was it wrong of him to lie in wait and kill her? Yes, and I thought the time served solution was a bit pat, but from the nephew's perspective(the perspective of a frightened, angry, powerless fourteen-year-old boy, I might add), what choice did he have? His uncle, who was a cop, knew about the abuse and did nothing. That might have sent the message that law enforcement would be indifferent if he spoke up. After all, if your uncle can't be assed to speak up, why would an anonymous cop care? And maybe he thought that Child Protective Services would simply separate the children and ship them off to parts unknown to cope with the consequences of abuse alone.

So, no, he didn't handle it the "right way", but he handled it the only way he thought he could, and to say that the show used his situation as propaganda is mind-boggling. Carver admitted he should have handled things differently, that there was another road he should have taken. No one was celebrating this as a win for the good guys. They made the best of a messy situation. The end.

 

[talkingtocactus]

i don't think it's propaganda at all. 2 episodes in a franchise comprising *counts* about 24 seasons between the 3 branches doesn't seem excessive at all, and especially not when compared with how much more often these stories occur in real life.

as for whether an abused child/person should kill their abuser, i'm torn. i'd never advocate murder. however.... in the uk there's recently been a shift in the law about whether an abused wife that kills her husband should really be tried to the fullest extent of murder law if it comes after years of persistent abuse, and i think that's absolutely right.

i've also seen too many of my friends/friends of friends who were abused have their lives messed up to a point of really not having that many other options, so i totally sympathise. also, really, if someone is repeatedly abusive (whether it be physically or sexually or even psychologically, especially to a child in which case there is absolutely NO question of a lack of consent) do they really deserve to be viewed as a victim?

 

[HnStetlerfan]

Well, because we are friends in RL and talked about this on the phone, it won't come as a surprise to ruby that I think the kid was right in killing his evil, monster of a mother. I feel that some people are just plain bad and like the Texas saying 'need killing'. And after I saw the cuts on the kid's back, I felt the "mother" deserved what she got.

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

In an ideal world, no abused person would feel so trapped as to see no other choice but to kill their abuser, but this world is not ideal, and people who are pushed too far sometimes snap. Was it wrong of him to lie in wait and kill her? Yes, and I thought the time served solution was a bit pat, but from the nephew's perspective(the perspective of a frightened, angry, powerless fourteen-year-old boy, I might add), what choice did he have? His uncle, who was a cop, knew about the abuse and did nothing. That might have sent the message that law enforcement would be indifferent if he spoke up. After all, if your uncle can't be assed to speak up, why would an anonymous cop care? And maybe he thought that Child Protective Services would simply separate the children and ship them off to parts unknown to cope with the consequences of abuse alone.

So, no, he didn't handle it the "right way", but he handled it the only way he thought he could, and to say that the show used his situation as propaganda is mind-boggling. Carver admitted he should have handled things differently, that there was another road he should have taken. No one was celebrating this as a win for the good guys. They made the best of a messy situation. The end.

Well said, La_Guera. I agree completely. While it was wrong for the kid to do what he did, I don't think that a child who has already been so horribly scarred and abused (by his own mother, no less) should be thrown in prison where he will no doubt be even more horribly abused (this time more than physically abused). I don't think that is justice at all. While what he did WAS WRONG, the more appropriate place for him would be a mental facility. A child should not be subjected to any form of abuse and throwing an already abused child in jail would more than likely cause him to suffer even more (and in some ways, worse) abuse than what he was suffering at the hands of his mother. If he were in a mental facility, he'd be off the streets, yet getting the help he needs.

In my opinion, child abusers are in some ways murderers. They murder a child's innocence by abusing them in such vile ways. Yet, this system is so horribly screwed up that a person who has been arrested for being a child predator gets out of prison after only a few years and then goes out and abducts another child. Child abusers/molestors, etc should get life in prison without the possibility of parole. The way the system works, a kid in an abusive situation would probably think, "if I reported them, they'd only go to jail for a little while and then they'd get out of jail and come after me for revenge for turning them in". If the system wasn't broken, a child wouldn't have to worry about such a scenario.

as for whether an abused child/person should kill their abuser, i'm torn. i'd never advocate murder.

That's exactly how I feel. It is unfortunate that this boy felt like he had no other choice.

I think the kid was right in killing his evil, monster of a mother. I feel that some people are just plain bad and like the Texas saying 'need killing'. And after I saw the cuts on the kid's back, I felt the "mother" deserved what she got.

I kind of feel the same way. She deserved it, but in my opinion death was too quick (and too good) for her for what she did to those kids. She tortured those kids for years and her injuries were quicker and she was dead before she felt even close to the amount of pain that she inflicted on her own children.

 

[BauerAlmeida]

Flack is my least favorite on the show, he is just a cocky ass cop. He and Danny tackling that big oaf? Really stupid. I tweeted, "Flack is a damn fool!"

I'm curious, but how is Flack just a "cocky ass cop"? I'm sorry but if Flack is "cocky ass" then what is Danny? Or even Mac? Are they just cute teddy bears? They aren't cocky ass cops either? Mac isn't self-righteous and cocky when he's confronting suspects? Danny has never been cocky? They've all had their cocky moments, so why is Flack the only "cocky ass cop"? Is it because he's more street-smarts than the CSIs who are more science-based?

And if Flack is a damn fool, then so was Danny for joining that fight, it's not just Flack's fault. And honestly, it's not like none of the CSIs haven't done anything like that before, I don't see why Flack should be singled out, Mac, Stella, Danny, and almost all the others have done things this crazy without back-up, and Mac is even a worst offender when it comes to this kind of stunt more than anyone.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

Flack is my least favorite on the show, he is just a cocky ass cop. He and Danny tackling that big oaf? Really stupid. I tweeted, "Flack is a damn fool!"

I'm curious, but how is Flack just a "cocky ass cop"? I'm sorry but if Flack is "cocky ass" then what is Danny? Or even Mac? Are they just cute teddy bears? They aren't cocky ass cops either? Mac isn't self-righteous and cocky when he's confronting suspects? Danny has never been cocky? They've all had their cocky moments, so why is Flack the only "cocky ass cop"? Is it because he's more street-smarts than the CSIs who are more science-based?

And if Flack is a damn fool, then so was Danny for joining that fight, it's not just Flack's fault. And honestly, it's not like none of the CSIs haven't done anything like that before, I don't see why Flack should be singled out, Mac, Stella, Danny, and almost all the others have done things this crazy without back-up, and Mac is even a worst offender when it comes to this kind of stunt more than anyone.

I agree with this, and I'll throw Lindsay's hat into the ring for a "cocky" award too. With such cringe worthy scenes as the "I ROCK!" scene and lines like, "I'm smart. I'm really smart," she's just as cocky as the rest of them. As far as I'm concerned Flack isn't nearly as cocky as the other characters. In fact he's more self depreciating than the others with telling the CSI's to explain their scentific stuff to someone "with just a high school education" and other lines that have made it sound like he doesn't think he's as smart as the others.

ETA: If you watch the scene where Danny and Flack go after the big dude, you can see that Danny is the one who is all gung ho about going after the guy. Flack is hesitant and only goes in after Danny has already taken off (with a big smile on his face). I think he just went in to back up Danny and Danny was the "damn fool" for being so eager to take on the guy.

 

[Ninja0980]

While I can't condone murder,this wasn't a case of a spoiled kid killing his mom because she wouldn't let him play videogames.
This was a child who had been beaten and tortured for years,who had adults that knew or suspected what was going on and they did nothing. If you can't trust your uncle, who is also a police officer, why would you trust anyone else?
The fact he did nothing after seeing all those injuries is inexusable to me. I truly believe he felt there was no one there to protect his siblings but him.
As he said know, if he had known then what he knows now, he wouldn't have done it.
But as I said before, when you're an abused child or a victim of a stalker worry about being killed, looking towards the future is an afterthought.
Sad to say, but if he hadn't killed his mother, I truly believe that she would have killed him or one of his siblings.

 

[talkingtocactus]

While what he did WAS WRONG, the more appropriate place for him would be a mental facility. A child should not be subjected to any form of abuse and throwing an already abused child in jail would more than likely cause him to suffer even more (and in some ways, worse) abuse than what he was suffering at the hands of his mother. If he were in a mental facility, he'd be off the streets, yet getting the help he needs.

i pretty much totally agreed with la guera too, but i can't totally agree with this. i agree that prison would be wrong and would only make things worse. but y'know, mental facilities aren't a lot better/different. of course in an ideal world people in them get the help they need and all, but theory and practice are two very different things. in theory i agree with you but having seen the inside of many mental facilities (from the wrong point of view, if you know what i mean) i know they're not what they're cracked up to be.

the way i see it is that he obviously knew he'd done wrong - i know he said he had no regrets/remorse, but he knew the difference between right & wrong (which might preclude an insanity defence anyway i think), i would've thought a better option would be to get him counselling/therapy/something like that but let him continue his life. after all his mother punished him enough, without them coming down on him like a ton of bricks too.

 

[Country233]

Flack is my least favorite on the show, he is just a cocky ass cop. He and Danny tackling that big oaf? Really stupid. I tweeted, "Flack is a damn fool!"

I'm curious, but how is Flack just a "cocky ass cop"? I'm sorry but if Flack is "cocky ass" then what is Danny? Or even Mac? Are they just cute teddy bears? They aren't cocky ass cops either? Mac isn't self-righteous and cocky when he's confronting suspects? Danny has never been cocky? They've all had their cocky moments, so why is Flack the only "cocky ass cop"? Is it because he's more street-smarts than the CSIs who are more science-based?

And if Flack is a damn fool, then so was Danny for joining that fight, it's not just Flack's fault. And honestly, it's not like none of the CSIs haven't done anything like that before, I don't see why Flack should be singled out, Mac, Stella, Danny, and almost all the others have done things this crazy without back-up, and Mac is even a worst offender when it comes to this kind of stunt more than anyone.

Fine I will concede that all of them have been cocky cops. But something about Flack just rubs me the wrong way, more so than Danny or the others. He and Danny are really bad about mocking the people in the interogation room. Just bothers me, of the cast Flack is my least favorite. I realize there are alot of Flack and Danny people and I'm not saying they are wrong. I just happen to prefer Hawkes, Sid, Mac, and Lindsey over the rest of the cast.