I really liked your points here about the Adam/Stella storyline (can't believe I'm even typing that...) It was a shock, and not in a good way. It doesn't do much for Stella's character; I don't see the chemistry or the continuity there (especially after 'Grounds for Deception') I hope no more comes from it, and that is good indeed that nothing was shown! Maybe it's safe for me to watch the episode
Sorry, had to just say again, please, please, PLEASE no more Adam and Stella - I liked the crush Adam had/has on her, but no more than that. Stella is a mature woman; it doesn't fit with Adam, it doesn't fit her character or her role. Yes, I really do like Mac/Stella because of the equality of their relationship, and because of the complexities of it. I'd really like to see more go on from last season with the developments there, although I don't expect it to be a smooth road. Shocks and surprises are fine from TV shows, but not ones that make you cringe, which a one night stand, or any kind of relationship between Adam and Stella made me do. I'd love the writers and producers to develop things plausibly between Mac and Stella, it would be exciting and dynamic, and unexpected in a sort of expected way. From what I've seen of the episode (which is not a lot, granted) I like how Lindsay seems to be portrayed.
I don't want to turn this into a ship debate, but I have to bring something Fay brought up in another thread over here. How is it that, based on their work relationships, Mac/Stella is OK but Adam/Stella isn't? Mac is the boss in the lab. Stella hooking up with Mac would be a subordinate hooking up with their superior. Stella is a senior employee. Adam hooking up with Stella is a subordinate hooking up with their superior. If it's wrong for Stella/Adam to hook up then it should be wrong for Mac/Stella to hook up. It shouldn't be acceptable for one subordinate to hook up with one of their superiors and not acceptable for another subordinate to hook up with one of their superiors. Thanks again to Fay because she's the one who originally stated this.
Amen. If Faylinn was the first one to say this, kudos to her! :thumbsup: I ship Smacked -although I am well aware of the disastrous consequences it might have to the show-, but I can perfectly see the similarities between both situations. Age is a common factor too. You can say "but he's much younger!". Well, thanks to the strange changes in "Grounds for Deception", Stella is now 34 while Mac is about 45, so probably their age gap is bigger than the one existing between Adam and Stella.
Again, not trying to turn this into a ship debate (though I am a Smackie), I don't think it's an issue of a subordinate hooking up with a superior. It's more of an issue of chemistry and history. Stella has known all the other guys (Mac, Flack, Danny, Hawkes) for much longer than she has known Adam. I'm not saying that a friendship can't evolve into a relationship in 4 years, but it's more plausible if the characters have more history together. Also, we've seen little in the way of "flirting" (call it what you will) between Adam and Stella. It's obvious that she cares about him, but there have been various "flirty" scenes with her and the other guys. Kay, flirt is probably not the right word, but there's a certain dynamic that underlies the interactions between her and Flack, Hawkes, Mac, Danny, than there is with Adam. Personally, if they were looking to put her in a relationship with a co-worker for the long term and not just as a coping factor, I'd pair her with Hawkes. More history, chemistry, and dynamic than Adam, but he still has that somewhat innocent quality that contradicts all her previous relationships (or at least the ones we've seen). The show isn't ready for Mac and Stella yet, Flack is mourning, and Danny is married. So Hawkes is a better fit. The above statement is only an opinion and I do not mean to spark a shipper debate on the subject!
I hope I'm not stepping over the marks by continuing this debate, but for relationships, I also don't see it so much as a problem with it being about a relationship with a subordinate, although for Mac and Stella, they are virtually equally in command. It's more about the dynamic and the depths of feeling, and the implications of the scene at the end of 'Grounds for Deception. Why ignore that? I'd love to see more developed from that alongside everything else this season. Also, why does it have to ruin/be the end of a show if a relationship develops between two leads? I don't want it to happen overnight, but why waste the potential of an exciting pairing? Viewers are intelligent enough to take on a well-written and developed relationship. I don't watch the show just for Mac and Stella, but the chemistry between them is a big part of my enjoyment of it. I love all the characters; the characters make the show, so I like character storylines too. I'm really interested in what's going to happen to Hawkes and to Flack, and I want to see more of Sid this season as well as my two favourites.
I completely agree with that. The subordinate/superior thing didn't come into it for me at all. My main concern was that even though it's clear that Adam & Stel are close in a work colleague way, they've never given any indication that they're close outside of work. Aside from when they went out to toast Jess at the bar. But again, it was a work-related thing. Not only that but Stella's so elegant and sophisticated and Adam, well, bless his adorkable heart, he would probably look out of place in a fancy restaurant or the opera. So there's that huge difference between them, aswell. Complete polar opposites. The passion they have for their work is probably the only thing that they have in common. I think we could talk about this pairing until the cows come home. :lol:
:lol: The wonky timelines on this show are a source of endless amusement - and headaches. To toss in my two cents about the chemistry/history debate - my thought is kind of like "So what?" Not every relationship is between people with a lot of history or who are on 'equal' footing. We really have no idea what transpired between the shooting and the time Stella and Adam hooked up, but even if nothing different happened - it's not an unrealistic situation. Maybe the specifics of their relationship up to this point is exactly why the idea of hooking up seemed appealing. Maybe Stella wasn't looking for someone she has history with. Maybe she liked Adam's sweetness and the simple fact that he cares for her and is a good man. Maybe that's what appealed to her - maybe not for a long-term relationship, maybe not for a serious relationship, but people don't always make decisions after considering all of the long-term consequences of those decisions. Sometimes people don't think about that until later. Which is what could potentially make this interesting, IMO. I dunno, I guess talking about it is swaying me toward liking the idea. It's always possible that Adam or Stella could get hurt because it was a bad decision - but it's also possible that both characters can grow from the experience and maybe even discover something deeper in their interaction with each other. At the very least, we know they aren't ashamed of what happened and have openly discussed it (although I don't think Adam was thinking the same thing Stella was thinking when they did). So yeah, whether it's good or bad is entirely reliant on the dynamic and relationship between Stella and Adam - I don't see why Mac has to come into it at all. It happens. Relationships cover a broad spectrum.
Polar opposites sometimes make the best couples. And I don't think it was about having an established relationship outside of work prior to them hooking up. It was about comfort and security and I think Adam could provide those things to Stella in a way the other men in her life couldn't. Not only is Adam sweet and kind and definitely interested in Stella, but I don't have a hard time imagining Stella being able to take the lead/take control in the relationship; and that provides her with a comfort level she hasn't had in previous relationships where the guy was the one in control and it ended very badly. In another situation where her well being was not under her control (the shooting) she needed someone who would allow her to take the lead and I don't see any of the men in the main cast aside from Adam being able to do that for her. ETA: So yeah, mostly what Fay said. lol
Ooh, good point about Adam being the kind of guy Stella could be with that would allow her to sort of take the reins in the relationship.
Okay, I thought I was just imagining it, but you noticed it too! (The sneakiness coming from Haylen, I mean). I'm glad - I'm hoping that means it's deliberate, and the writers weren't just going for cute/ballsy with her; I got the feeling she really would do whatever it took to get a job in the lab. I could get behind her finding out about Stella/Adam and using it to get into the lab - not that I'd be happy seeing Adam be emotionally blackmailed, but I think I could really admire the streak of ruthlessness it would take to do that. It would definitely mean that she was flawed, rather than perfect. I hope tossing in my own two-cents won't be enough to spark a ship-debate -- truth be told, I'm about as excited for Stella/Adam as I am for Mac/Stella: nil. If I had my own way, they'd all just keep their hookups and whatnot out of the lab and not risk breaking up the team (and I'm totally looking at D/L here :shifty: who, by even the standards usually set out in CSI-verse, shouldn't be working the same shifts at all, let alone glued at the hip for 3/4ths of an episode). That said, D/L clearly works for many people. D and L knew each other for all of three minutes before the writers started setting them up, and it's gone this long. Wendy/Hodges from CSI is another odd pairing, who hadn't known each other for years on end before they started flirting, and it still clearly works. Stepping outside of CSI examples, there are examples on other shows where strangers from a one-night stand end up finding True Love (no, I did not spend the whole of last night watching Grey's Anatomy. Really :alienblush. People who've known each other for a long time starting to hook up is obviously very plausible too, but it's certainly not the only normal standard, or even the more likely standard. But perhaps the writers thought Adam/Stella (or at least, Adam's crush on Stella) also had exciting potential -- and that was the one they decided not to waste? I have no idea; I know A/S came out of left field for everyone, but I don't think it's only Mac/Stella that has the exclusive potential to be well-written or well-developed...and some viewers have taken on it just fine.
Well, there is one highly suggestive scene (no dialogue) that shows the Adam/Stella "liasion," but if you've seen the promo, you know which one it is, and hopefully, it shouldn't come as such a horrible shock. I agree that they're both supervisor/subordinate relationships and any restrictions on that type of fraternization would apply to both. Even if there aren't specific rules, these types of relationships can get complicated and are generally not considerd to be a good idea. However, I think some of the discussion about supervisor/subordinate relationships is getting a bit muddled with the issue of the power imbalance, which has more to do how the characters relate to each other. There is a distinct difference between how Mac and Stella relate to each other (personally and professionally) versus Adam and Stella, and I think this was apparent even in the latest episode. The view that Adam and Stella aren't on equal footing in terms of their experience, maturity, and self-confidence is a big part of the "ick" factor of this pairng. And it doesn't help that Stella has never previously shown any type of non-platonic or flirtatious interest in Adam. The writers can tell us that these things changed over the course of a month, but if they can't explain or show us how and why, then it's not gonna be believable. Ad Judge Judy might say, "If it doesn't make sense, then it didn't happen."
Indeed. :devil: Word. I think by trying to compare Adam/Stella to Mac/Stella, we're all just going in circles. Ultimately, it doesn't matter what Mac/Stella is or isn't, professionally or personally, in practice or in theory - certainly not with regards to the relationship TPTB have created between Stella and Adam. For better or worse, TPTB decided to have them sleep together, and I can only imagine that they'll revisit the relationship in some way, shape or form later in the season - whether as a temporary arc or a more permanent thing remains to be seen. Comparing the relationship to a relationship that never happened isn't doing much to help us discuss Stella/Adam itself. Who's in charge, who has more power, etc - all of that is relevant (and worth discussing), but I think we're wasting time trying to say whether it's better or worse than Mac/Stella. Fair enough, but not every relationship takes place between people with equal experience, maturity and/or self-confidence. Even if people want to argue that an unequal relationship isn't a good idea long-term, that doesn't mean it isn't realistic or that it's automatically a horrible thing. I know it's TV, but it's not like Adam and Stella have to get married now or never have relationships with anybody else since they slept together once. I think one 'Tru luv destined forever and ever because God brought them together and they can never be with another person now that they have met each other' relationship is enough for the show. Well, she has now. *shrug* It's gotta start somewhere. Sometimes things are gradual, sometimes they're sudden. TPTB have expected us to assume a heck of a lot about Danny and Lindsay's relationship over the past several years (as an example) - believable or not, that's how we have arrived at baby time and pep talks about umbrellas. Fact is, the stuff with Adam and Stella has taken up all of two scenes, and we're only one episode into the season. We're all sitting here talking about a lot of *ifs* and *it seems* and *if they don'ts*, but they haven't even had a chance to expand on things or explain what happened. It's really not fair of us to say 'They didn't tell us everything all at once in one episode that had so much else going on.' They have to save some stuff for the rest of the season. My guess? We'll find out the 'whole story' when their tryst becomes known to someone else (ie Mac). But hey, I could be wrong. Until something actually happens on the show, we're just talking in circles. :lol: