Eric/Calleigh romance - why we dislike it. **spoilers**

[Jag Lady]

Ah, yes. E/C. Where angels fear to tread. :guffaw:
Personally, I have no opinion about the whole thing. I do think TPTB in CBS have compromised the characters in order to make the romance take front and center stage.

In the early years of Miami, both Eric and Calleigh were go-getters. Eric would dive, fly helicopters, etc. I mean, he was a real go-to CSI. Now he just seems all mushy-squishy in his personality, and I get the feeling that all he really cares about anymore is what Calleigh thinks of him. That wouldn't be so bad, except I don't see much balance.

JMHO. Calleigh seemed torn between Jake and Eric for so long. Finally she gave Jake his walking papers, saying "Seems like all I've been doing is waiting." At the same time, Calleigh's been suffering from Olive Oyl Syndrome (Olive was the girl in the Popeye cartoons who could never decide which man she wanted. One was good to her while the other abused her. One would rescue her from the other. Then it would start all over again in the next cartoon).

As an old married lady, I get a bad feeling about this relationship. Okay, so Eric is having a rough time readjusting after his gunshot wound to the head. Does a strong (?) woman like Calleigh want to live with this kind of insecurity? At the same time, I see both of them flirting with other people. Clue time, Eric and Calleigh! If you're serious about one another, you're going to have to act like it! Stop batting eyelashes at that stud muffin or that Animal Control cutie!

I think one reason I was okay with the H/Y/S (Horatio/Yelina/Stetler) love triangle is because it wasn't the be-all and end-all of the show. You knew it was going on, but there was balance. I hope TPTB will sort these things out as time goes on.

 

[mjszud]

I know it may seem like more because the scenes were spread out, but realistically, Calleigh and Eric scenes haven't been adding up to even 10 minutes per episode. Just something to keep in mind.

As it's been pointed out before, it's not just the amount of time during each scene the romance is focused on. What makes it overkill, is the fact that if it isn't the romance, it's the 2 of them working in a lot of scenes, moreso than any other characters. When have we ever seen an episode where they don't share a scene? Never. There's been very few where they've only had about 2 scenes - the rest are much greater in number.

There's no rule that says E/C HAVE to have scenes in every episode. H/Cal have had very few in over 2 seasons. Sometimes, Ryan/Cal, Ryan/Nat, Eric/Nat, & Nat/H go on without scenes together for 3-4 episodes in a row without a single scene.

I've done a bit of numbers myself.

Mid-Season 5 when E/C started taking position -
From 5x15 'Man Down' to 5x24 'Born to Kill' there were 6 episodes in relation to E/C. That's 6 episodes out of 9! More than 50% E/C concentrated on, & that doesn't include the epis in between where they were just working together.

In Season 6: 11 episodes out of 21 were E/C related. Again that's half of the season, & every epi between had this couple in scenes as a "team of thier own".

Season 7 : This season has been a blurr to me, so I had a hard time going back but from what I can recall (& I'm probably missing a few) there's been 9 episodes out of the 19 we've had so far. Again, this does not include the scenes where they're just working - which have been at least 4 scenes in every episode.

So, all in all, there is plenty to take into consideration with "overkill" other than their "romantic scenes" only adding up to 10 minutes.
All of that doesn't even include the number of arcticles, interviews, & promos that have revolved around this pairing, or the times we've had to watch other actors' interviews to constantly be questioned "will they or won't they".
In a nutshell, 26 e/c related episodes out of 49 is overkill.

 

[Ginnna]

Ok, what Ginnna wrote in thread "dear writers":

I think you know how many fans support Eric & Calleigh and how many oppose Eric & Calleigh. I think you also know that both the supporters and the opposers tend to blow things out of proportion and that despite the way both sides have focused on every single detail (both positively and negatively), you're maintaining an admirable balance. Except for that whole daydream thing. Pretty much everyone agreed that it was a little weird. The E/C fans thought it was cute, but still weird.

Ginnna, i hope you don't mind that i post it here, i don't wanna write answer there

1) Nor you, nor i can't say how many people like\dislike this couple on the show. IMO, you (or any EC fan) can't say that people who like EC is more than people who don't like. And i (or any other fan who don't like EC) can't say that people who don't like EC is more than people who like this couple. No one can't say true number of EC fans and antiEC fans.

2) I disagree with you. I don't see any balance, it's overkill. Balance is when you have couple eps with EC and couple ep without it, 50% with EC and 50% without it. Thats balance in my opinion. If they made couple, they don't need to show it in every ep, and don't mention "Presumed Guilty", cuz it was one ep against many.
I hope you do not take offence at my words. I just write my opinion as you write yours.

I'm assuming that since you're allowed to respond to me in this thread, I'm allowed to respond to you in this thread. If you feel I'm out of line, folks, please do me the favor of telling me before you report me to the mods.

Thanks.

1) You're right, they may not know with 100% certainty. I'm guessing they have a pretty good idea, though. Enormous networks like this most likely have ways to keep in tune with the reactions of their audience even if most of the audience doesn't frequent message boards such as this one. Then again, they could also be completely out of touch and have absolutely no idea what their audience is and is not responding to.

2) Are you saying that if there is any hint whatsoever of the E/C relationship in an episode, it taints the entire 45 minutes and you can't enjoy one single moment of it? Because that's the only way I can understand you saying that the balance is "off". Like silentdisco said, when the E/C romantic moments are totaled up, the range of time is amounting to single-digit number of minutes (around 6½ in the last "E/C-heavy" episode). The rest of the time it's work. We (both you and I and probably most everyone else) may not enjoy the fact that they're paired off with each other to do their job more than they're paired off with other team members, or that the entire team isn't working together on more cases, but they ARE doing actual CSI work for the vast majority of the time. The bottom line is that the cases are getting solved and I thought that was the basis of the show, to solve the crimes. That's what I keep hearing, anyway. That's what I've always assumed.

Personally, I'd LOVE to see everyone jumbled up instead of being in the regular dyads of E/C and R/N or R/H, but I don't see why these dyads are making folks so upset or why the romance between E/C is being blamed. Did Eric & Calleigh's pseudo-relationship (before 714) have any influence over who was called out to which crime scene with whom? Would UST have that kind of influence over case assignment in real life? I doubt it, so I don't know why we should assume it had any influence in the CSI:M universe. Did E/C inform Horatio that they're nearly inseparable (and secretly in love with each other) and therefore won't work for the lab anymore unless they are allowed to work 70% of all cases together? I doubt it. The writers MAY have been trying to send a message by putting them together on several cases, but thinking of the CSI:M universe as though it were a real working environment, I don't think anyone or anything in REAL life - besides the pure coincidence of availability at the time when CSI's are needed - would put those two together as much as they've worked together as CSI's on the job.

So, again, unless those few short moments taint the entire episode, there has been balance, at least time-wise.

Also, starzsgirl, I'm not the one who used the term "anti". I went with "opposers of Eric & Calleigh". Y'all DO "oppose" the E/C relationship, do you not?

oppose - verb - "to be averse to"
dislike - verb - "to regard with aversion"

I felt they were similar enough that I could use one in the place of the other. If I made an error in judgment, feel free to let me know.

 

[starzsgirl]

2) Are you saying that if there is any hint whatsoever of the E/C relationship in an episode, it taints the entire 45 minutes and you can't enjoy one single moment of it? Because that's the only way I can understand you saying that the balance is "off". Like silentdisco said, when the E/C romantic moments are totaled up, the range of time is amounting to single-digit number of minutes (around 6½ in the last "E/C-heavy" episode). The rest of the time it's work. We (both you and I and probably most everyone else) may not enjoy the fact that they're paired off with each other to do their job more than they're paired off with other team members, or that the entire team isn't working together on more cases, but they ARE doing actual CSI work for the vast majority of the time. The bottom line is that the cases are getting solved and I thought that was the basis of the show, to solve the crimes. That's what I keep hearing, anyway. That's what I've always assumed.

There is more to over killing an episode than just how much time a character is on screen, there is also the mentioning by other characters. Mjszud made a great post about other eps and how everything has panned out, and frankly I agree with the research she has done.

Also, starzsgirl, I'm not the one who used the term "anti". I went with "opposers of Eric & Calleigh". Y'all DO "oppose" the E/C relationship, do you not?

oppose - verb - "to be averse to"
dislike - verb - "to regard with aversion"

I felt they were similar enough that I could use one in the place of the other. If I made an error in judgment, feel free to let me know.

I was pointing that out as a general fact to everyone, not saying that you said it so where that assumption came from I have no idea, since there have been many who like to throw out anti and hater like it's water. Plus it says dislike in the title so it would make sense that we are quite like the second definition you have provided above.

I personally have an aversion to this relationship, therefore dislike is my word of choice. There very well may be others who oppose, and that is their take on it. I used the words I did because that is how I describe my feelings towards this.

 

[Orla_Dark]

Also, starzsgirl, I'm not the one who used the term "anti". I went with "opposers of Eric & Calleigh". Y'all DO "oppose" the E/C relationship, do you not?
oppose - verb - "to be averse to"
dislike - verb - "to regard with aversion"
I felt they were similar enough that I could use one in the place of the other. If I made an error in judgment, feel free to let me know.

Maybe it strong word, but short The only reason i write it was "don't like EC" is too long Sorry, i shouldn't write that word, never happen again

1) You're right, they may not know with 100% certainty. I'm guessing they have a pretty good idea, though. Enormous networks like this most likely have ways to keep in tune with the reactions of their audience even if most of the audience doesn't frequent message boards such as this one. Then again, they could also be completely out of touch and have absolutely no idea what their audience is and is not responding to.

I know something about statistic from my university study, it's big lie, even if tptb wanna know how many people like it or not they never find out, not even close number. All they have is rating. But then again, rating show only how many people watch, rating don't say them "25% watch but unhappy with this line" (it's random number) and like i wrote in "Dear writers" thread, many people already stop watching or close to this. And i from people who don't enjoy with show like it was in past, before this storyline starts. Saying for myself, i start watching this show cuz i love watch detectives show, and when i start don't like this loveline i even don't ship anyone, i just thinking it was too much for show like this. H and Yelina had sexual tension back in season 3, but it wasn't in every ep. GSR wasn't every ep too, before they was together and after.

2) Are you saying that if there is any hint whatsoever of the E/C relationship in an episode, it taints the entire 45 minutes and you can't enjoy one single moment of it? Because that's the only way I can understand you saying that the balance is "off". Like silentdisco said, when the E/C romantic moments are totaled up, the range of time is amounting to single-digit number of minutes (around 6½ in the last "E/C-heavy" episode). The rest of the time it's work. We (both you and I and probably most everyone else) may not enjoy the fact that they're paired off with each other to do their job more than they're paired off with other team members, or that the entire team isn't working together on more cases, but they ARE doing actual CSI work for the vast majority of the time. The bottom line is that the cases are getting solved and I thought that was the basis of the show, to solve the crimes. That's what I keep hearing, anyway. That's what I've always assumed.

I don't wanna write answer on this, cuz it was the same that mjszud wrote in post above yours

Personally, I'd LOVE to see everyone jumbled up instead of being in the regular dyads of E/C and R/N or R/H, but I don't see why these dyads are making folks so upset or why the romance between E/C is being blamed.

Yeah, people upset, cuz it start play boring. The same thing in every ep, annoying and boring. And i wanna see Cal\Ryan interaction cuz they look great together as co-wokers and friends (yes, i admit, i prefer them as couple, but if it never happen it's ok with me. Seriously, tptb destroy Calleigh character that much, so i think that Ryan deserves better than that.) I wanna see Eric\Nat and Caleigh\Natalia interaction (when we last time saw Cal and Nat in one scene? I don't remember, maybe in 7x04 when they was in AV lab, searching boat ). You don't understand why people upset that it's not happen, cuz you like what you see, EC in every scene together.

So, again, unless those few short moments taint the entire episode, there has been balance, at least time-wise.

Still don't see any balance. And completely agree with mjszud.

Where other actors? For me as Ryan fan season 6 with all EC tension was like nightmare, it's better in this season, but still not the same as it was before. When Alexx come back for one ep and they show us interview with her, David and Emily, yeah, there was mention about EC. When they show in promo that in "Sink or Swim" EC kissing, we saw interview with Adam and Emily in TV guide, video interview on youtube. Now time for Ryan's storyline, and i don't see any interview or article about it. Kiss was big deal for EC romance, 7x19 and 7x20 is big deal for Ryan as character, but tptb don't pay attention for this Ann Donahue said that Adam and Emily have sexual photoshoot, again, about whole cast was forget.

 

[csiawsome]

I ship EC so I probably shouldn't even be in here, but I have to say that I agree with the people who are saying they hope it doesn't take over the show. I certainly hope the show doesn't completely revolve around them after the next episode. Even I as an EC shipper would hate that. It's fine for them to have personal lives and an episode here or there, but we can't forget about the CSI aspect or the other characters either.

I'm just going to wait and see what the rest of the season has in store before I even get really excited over this. For all we know it could be a huge disappointment, with their relationship, or with the rest of the show because of them. *shrug*

By the way this thread reminds me of the "Why Lindsay Must Go" thread on the NY forum.

OK, I am a E/C/ shipper too, but I honestly think that this is just going to go on for the rest of the season. In the beggining of Season eight, Eric and Caleigh might stil be together...great! Whatever. We would all lose interest in them. It is not the kind of relationship that is going to take over the whole show. People are just kind of happy that it is going on now, but it will be old news by next september. It has always seemed as if this show has had a theme each seaon, or a sorta main thing they show a lot. (Season 5 was Eric getting shot and recovering, season six was Horatio getting a son) but now Season seven is Caleigh and Eric getting together. New season, new theme. I can even admit I am missing the ret of the team (I like E/C more though, sorry), but the relationship ma last a long time, but showing it mainly every episode won't. I can almost garuntee it.

Sorry for waisting your time by reading an E/C fans P.O.V.
P.S. but i don't want the romance to go away completely
P.P.S. I think it is a great idea to have this post, as much as it pains me to say it.

 

[Ginnna]

My apologies, starzsgirl, I shouldn't've assumed you were referencing me in any way. I generally use "dislike" and "oppose" since I see them as synonyms. I may have used "anti" once or twice in my time at Talk CSI, but let me assure you, I don't call you folks "haters".

Also, starzsgirl, orla_dark, I saw mjszud's post. This was my response to mjszud:

Personally, I'd LOVE to see everyone jumbled up instead of being in the regular dyads of E/C and R/N or R/H, but I don't see why these dyads are making folks so upset or why the romance between E/C is being blamed. Did Eric & Calleigh's pseudo-relationship (before 714) have any influence over who was called out to which crime scene with whom? Would UST have that kind of influence over case assignment in real life? I doubt it, so I don't know why we should assume it had any influence in the CSI:M universe. Did E/C inform Horatio that they're nearly inseparable (and secretly in love with each other) and therefore won't work for the lab anymore unless they are allowed to work 70% of all cases together? I doubt it. The writers MAY have been trying to send a message by putting them together on several cases, but thinking of the CSI:M universe as though it were a real working environment, I don't think anyone or anything in REAL life - besides the pure coincidence of availability at the time when CSI's are needed - would put those two together as much as they've worked together as CSI's on the job.

Basically... I don't think their psuedo-relationship (pre-714) or their canon relationship (post-714) can be blamed for the time they spend with one another in the field, and I don't know why the time that they spend working together, really working, seems to be considered equally as offensive as what little time they spend making eyes at each other.

But like I've been told before, no one in this thread actually owes me any explanations. Your objections/dislikes don't have to make sense to me. I've said my piece and I'm going to leave. No one needs to feel compelled to respond to this post. I know I've overstayed my welcome and I won't be bothering you anymore (unless I have a complaint about E/C or another post is directed at me/made in response to something I've said).

 

[mjszud]

I'm not going to direct this post to anyone, all I'm going to say is to look at it differently for a moment. First of all, the e/c romance is nothing more than a storyline (IMO), just like the Russian Mob being a big story for this season. Now imagine if Ivan was in every episode alongside Horatio reminding everyone that this was the big story. It wouldn't matter that in every scene it wasn't focused on or threats were made - the point is that that storyline would still be rearing it's head in every episode, & that's what it feels like with the E/C romance. Imagine if the Russian Mob story played out for over 2 seasons - could anyone not tell me that they'd be bored stiff with it?! I'm pretty sure they would be wanting TPTB to move on, & move away from the same old song & dance.

People all over have noticed that Eva & Jon have had very little to do while Adam, Emily & David always get thier share of great storylines. It's absolute bullsh*t. If TPTB had already set a foundation from the beginning with e/c, then they wouldn't have had to lay it on so damn thick trying to sell this story for the past 2 seasons - & the other characters wouldn't have had to be pushed aside for it!

Miami has always had this "when one door closes, a new one opens" theme to thier show - you can see from the very first season how every incident & arc has rolled into something else - usually resulting in a new development for the characters, & new stories. E/C has been played like a revolving door though - continuing to just circle & circle, seemingly going no where.
I'm just going to put this bluntly - it's time to close the damn door!

 

[Orla_Dark]

I'm not going to direct this post to anyone, all I'm going to say is to look at it differently for a moment. First of all, the e/c romance is nothing more than a storyline (IMO), just like the Russian Mob being a big story for this season. Now imagine if Ivan was in every episode alongside Horatio reminding everyone that this was the big story. It wouldn't matter that in every scene it wasn't focused on or threats were made - the point is that that storyline would still be rearing it's head in every episode, & that's what it feels like with the E/C romance. Imagine if the Russian Mob story played out for over 2 seasons - could anyone not tell me that they'd be bored stiff with it?! I'm pretty sure they would be wanting TPTB to move on, & move away from the same old song & dance.

People all over have noticed that Eva & Jon have had very little to do while Adam, Emily & David always get thier share of great storylines. It's absolute bullsh*t. If TPTB had already set a foundation from the beginning with e/c, then they wouldn't have had to lay it on so damn thick trying to sell this story for the past 2 seasons - & the other characters wouldn't have had to be pushed aside for it!

Miami has always had this "when one door closes, a new one opens" theme to thier show - you can see from the very frist season how every incident & arc has rolled into something else - usually resulting in a new development for the characters, & new stories. E/C has been played like a revolving door though - continuing to just circle & circle, seemingly going no where.
I'm just going to put this bluntly - it's time to close the damn door!

You absolutely right! Close this door and open new one! :scream:

End this story, would it break up or they got marry and have many little children, i don't care, just bring it somewhere! And finally start storyline for others. Poor Eva, she is so talented actress, but tptb don't use it. Jon have more screentime then Eva, but still, he wait 2 seasons for his own storyline!!! And i have bad feeling tptb screw up this.

 

[mjszud]

Oh Lordy, here I go.

It's rather telling that this was the best TPTB do for a "love scene" (?) between this couple. There was far too much lacking in that scene - steam, chemistry, physical contact - these 2 couldn't even stand right smack next to each other? Yikes. It was, if anything, as romantic & passionate as those couples on the herpes commercials.

It's apparent that after 2 years all this couple is capable of is touching hands & "peck kissing". Perhaps Nickelodeon could pick up the Eric & Calleigh spin off show.

Overall, after last night's epi, I was again left with that feeling of Eric & Calleigh being in thier own little world -- their own little team. This romance, & constant "pairing off" the twosome, puts a huge wedge in between this team whether it's the writer's intentions or not.

What bothered me most was Calleigh & Eric in the last scene with Ryan.
I didn't really expect much from Eric because he's always copped attitude before - it's definitly nothing new for him. However it was Calleigh who really threw me for a loop. Old Calleigh would have taken the upper hand in that scene, removing Eric's foot from his mouth & either letting it rest or demand answers. But no, this time Calleigh keeps her mouth shut & stands there like a little girl so that Eric could look like a "man" & call the shots....which wasn't pulled off well, by the way.

It did not sit with me well considering all that Eric's done to make mistakes in the past & Calleigh covering for him. Again, I'm losing more & more respect for these 2 the more this goes on -- I do hope TPTB have intentions of fixing this & getting this team back to actually being a team....& SOON. It definitly doesn't give off a good team vibe when there's that much seperation between the team, yet E/C are seemingly attached by a cord.

 

[starzsgirl]

I won't even go into the "romantical" night/morning, it was just painful to watch, IMHO. Though it seems very superficial that they would go off and sleep together instead of looking for their teammate and friend.

What bothered me most was Calleigh & Eric in the last scene with Ryan.
I didn't really expect much from Eric because he's always copped attitude before - it's definitly nothing new for him. However it was Calleigh who really threw me for a loop. Old Calleigh would have taken the upper hand in that scene, removing Eric's foot from his mouth & either letting it rest or demand answers. But no, this time Calleigh keeps her mouth shut & stands there like a little girl so that Eric could look like a "man" & call the shots....which wasn't pulled off well, by the way.

It's so true Calleigh just stood there and looked at him like she was trying to see deep into his head and couldn't find what she wanted. If they had both taken the time to just ask what was wrong then things would have been a lot better. It's not like Ryan messed up the case, how he went about keeping the evidence just undid what he had to do. Eric and Calleigh should be thanking him that he stopped what could have been something worse, though the team is still under fire, at least Ryan stood up and did something about it.

And Eric telling Ryan to get his head in the game....excuse me?! Who is still using the bullet in their brain as a crutch and excuse? Yea thought so...Eric loves to say that he and Ryan are friends....well if they are as close as he claims then he would have known something was up from the way Ryan was sneaking clues in there whenever he had a chance....Eric and Calleigh choose to not take notice or pick up the hints.

 

[doublehelix]

Try as TPTB might, putting Delko in the shower then wrapped from the waiste down in a towel still isn't going to make the lack of chemistry and believability between Delko and Calleigh any better. It just looks as if TPTB is still trying to ram this relationship down out throat.

 

[Yumi696]

Last night was the first time I ever saw a CSI: Miami episode, but it was still kinda clear to me that something about the couple just didn't sit right... they don't seem to fit. And I was really angry that they just dissed Ryan and all he had to go through.

 

[mjszud]

Hello Yumi696, welcome to "Miami' & to the thread. Most of us here agree wholeheartidly with you - they just do not fit.

Delko in the shower then wrapped from the waiste down in a towel still isn't going to make the lack of chemistry and believability between Delko and Calleigh any better.

No kidding. I'm not seeing where the "we're soooo into each other" is coming in at. Romantically "in love" they haven't been pulling it off - seeing them in so-called "action" (thier first kiss) wasn't pulled off either - now they have this "at home bedroom/bathroom" scene & there was not a single amount of physical contact thrown in?! Yeah...they aren't pulling anything off. They simply suck at this love stuff.

And Eric telling Ryan to get his head in the game....excuse me?! Who is still using the bullet in their brain as a crutch and excuse? Yea thought so

That's the part that doesn't sit with me. Of all people, I just didn't think Eric had the right to act that way. Yes, he had reason to wonder what was going on & be pissed that Ryan messed with the case, but is it that damn hard for you to COMMUNICATE ERIC!?!??! One would think that he might have learned by now to get answers first & then make judgement, because it never fails he winds up with his foot in his mouth & looking like a jackass.

~~~~~~~~
Edit to get this off my chest.
I was always first to say that I enjoyed (to an extent) the small tiffs between Eric & Ryan. I thought it was pretty normal given thier history & at times I took Eric's side, & other times felt Ryan was in the right.

It just donned on me though why this time around it seems so different & unbearable - they've drug Calleigh into it!!

Before it was just something that fit with the individual characters, Ryan & Eric - they had problems - no biggie.
But ever since 'Resurrection', TPTB have continued to play Calleigh with Eric even when it comes down to the Eric/Ryan tiffs. It's like they're "together" on it now, when before they were at least individual colleagues viewing the situation & having thier own opinion. It further adds to the overkill of e/c, & deepens that wedge between the team.

 

[captain_nati]

And Eric telling Ryan to get his head in the game....excuse me?!

Tell me about it!! I was like :wtf: when I heard that line!

having thier own opinion

Ever since Ressurection Calleigh has no personal opinion! I was so, so pissed at the last scene, when Eric was yelling at Ryan...Calleigh was just sitting there, head down, not saying anything!The Calleigh Duquesne I know would have definitely questioned him and demand some answers!But no,no,no! Cause Calleigh is now in a serious *coughs* relationship, as TPTB constantly and unreasonally reminds us, and she just has to agree with everything Eric says, since he is the Man! I am really start loosing my respect for her....
And don't let me get started about the romantic tension that they lack! What are they twelve year olds? A kiss on the cheek and eyeing each other in the classroom?? But seriously now, these two do not fit!!!! It's frustrating that they think they do!!! :scream::scream::scream: