Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:NY

[bklynCSIfanatic]

Re: The Great Ship Debate--CSI: NY

dutch_treat said:
Now, D/S, that's one ship that has never even crossed my mind. Expecially the first season she just seemed so much more mature than him. And although they are both very passionate people I never picked up any sexual tension between them. But you, too, did give me a great reason to rewatch the first season again during the winter stop. :lol:

I find Stella and Danny packed with heat in their scenes more so than Danny and Lindsay. Danny and Lindsay are not a given. Back to Danny and Stella, they still have a vibe and flow running between them. And season 1 was the kickoff, with Danny's flirty and witty repartee to feisty and sassy Stella.

For those looking for Stella/Danny Fanfic, you can find it at the c2 Danny centric community:

http://www.fanfiction.net/c2/22886/3/1/0/


Danny and Stella Fanfic at Livejournal:

http://community.livejournal.com/dannystella/

 

[dutch_treat]

Re: The Great Ship Debate--CSI: NY

bklynCSIfanatic said:
I find Stella and Danny packed with heat in their scenes more so than Danny and Lindsay. Danny and Lindsay are not a given. Back to Danny and Stella, they still have a vibe and flow running between them. And season 1 was the kickoff, with Danny's flirty and witty repartee to feisty and sassy Stella.

There's no need to shout to try and make your point.

As I already stated I have to rewatch some of the first season to see if there could be something between S/D.

And if it was already there in the first season I certainly don't see it anymore in season two and three. They don't even share the same kind of friendship like she has with Mac or Flack. They do seem to have a lot of respect for each other but that's (imo) about it.

And sassy is not a term I would use to describe Stella's character. I always thought of her as a very private person.

 

[Faylinn]

Re: The Great Ship Debate--CSI: NY

My mistake. I skipped through "People with money" again and she had a lot more screentime than I remembered. She does sound nice and seems to like a bit sarcastic humor. So I'm with you on the fact that she deserves more screentime.
After all there are (with the exception of this week's ep) almost always two cases so they could use an extra detective. That (just occured to me) also means she will probably never be working together with Flack 'cause there never seem to be multiple detectives at the same scene.

I didn't mean to imply that you were wrong or anything, I was just stating my opinion.

I doubt that Flack and Angell will work together, but it's always possible. They had Stagnetti at the end of "Not What It Looks Like," and he's in a similar character position as Angell. It's not likely, but it could happen. And, of course, some people ship two characters without them ever having any screentime together.

It looked like she got along with Danny very well, but as long as Lindsay is around the poor girl doesn't stand a change . But Hawkes seemed to like her a lot too so maybe they should be sent to a couple of crime scenes together, see what happens.

To quote bklynCSIfanatic, "Danny and Lindsay are not a given." True, that's what the writers seem to want right now, but if the storylines that contain relationship moments between them always flop like "Love Run Cold," I don't see them concentrating on that for long. And, of course, the writers can be fickle people. What they like now they might not like in the future. No relationship is set in stone. (And I admit, for the good of the show, that I hope they change their minds about Danny/Lindsay soon. )

I find Stella and Danny packed with heat in their scenes more so than Danny and Lindsay.

I've never really shipped Danny and Stella, but I can see why people would. I also think that it was much more evident in season 1. The character changes from seasons 1 to 2 might not have all been major, but when it comes to both of these characters, they were watered down, and that had an effect on the way they interacted together.

There's no need to shout to try and make your point.

Actually, I think the end tags for the quote just got messed up. The 'dutch_treat said' was the only part that should have been bolded and italicized. (That's why I always preview my posts. :lol

 

[kinkapoodles]

Re: The Great Ship Debate--CSI: NY

There's no need to shout to try and make your point.

dutch_treat, shouting is when someone types in all capital letters, not bold. I think the bold writing and italics was just a mistake and I have corrected it.

 

[dutch_treat]

Re: The Great Ship Debate--CSI: NY

Faylinn said:
I didn't mean to imply that you were wrong or anything, I was just stating my opinion.

I didn't think you were. But I thought I was . I based my opinion only on what I remembered she looked like, but I think she has the possibility to add a lot more than just good looks to the show.

And, of course, the writers can be fickle people. What they like now they might not like in the future. No relationship is set in stone. (And I admit, for the good of the show, that I hope they change their minds about Danny/Lindsay soon. )

No relation is set in stone that's true but in the D/L case it is set on paper. I still believe that the whole pairing of those two (not that I'm complaining ) is part of the Lindsay's-dark-past-secret-story. And it will at least last until that secret is revealed (and beyond :lol: ).

And I think having romance (not per se D/L) does benefit the show. It wins over viewers who never liked watching CSI because it was all to scientific.

There's no need to shout to try and make your point.

Actually, I think the end tags for the quote just got messed up. The 'dutch_treat said' was the only part that should have been bolded and italicized. (That's why I always preview my posts. :lol

dutch_treat, shouting is when someone types in all capital letters, not bold. I think the bold writing and italics was just a mistake and I have corrected it.

I believe you are right. That post looks a lot more friendly now. bklynCSIfanatic sorry for the accusation and 1CSIMfan thanks for correcting it.

 

[kinkapoodles]

Re: The Great Ship Debate--CSI: NY

No relation is set in stone that's true but in the D/L case it is set on paper. I still believe that the whole pairing of those two (not that I'm complaining ) is part of the Lindsay's-dark-past-secret-story. And it will at least last until that secret is revealed (and beyond ).

DL may be on paper (why they even thought of it, I don't know), but paper can be burned, erased, lost, etc. I think the DL thing will last until her secret is revealed, if it lasts that long.

And I think having romance (not per se D/L) does benefit the show. It wins over viewers who never liked watching CSI because it was all to scientific.

I'm not convinced that having a romance will benefit the show. Why? If people don't like CSI because it's about the science, adding slight hints of a romance won't win anybody over. They can watch Grey's Anatomy if they want romance.

I still stand behind the belief that main characters shouldn't be canon. IMO, it takes away from the show. Does everyone in the real world who work together date each other? I don't think so. Not that it doesn't happen but they do it on all TV shows. The entire cast of Beverly Hills, 90210 practically dated each other at one point. Too unrealistic.

I would rather see any of the characters in a relationship (meaning we know they are seeing somebody), having them mention things occasionally, and (as with Stella) having them on the show sometimes. I think that's all the fans need to see.

I am just so intrigued by the way we all watch the same show and see things so differently.

 

[Top41]

Re: The Great Ship Debate--CSI: NY

1CSIMfan said:
I like the idea of Flack's feelings coming out in a tense situation. I'm thinking at first Danny would just think it was because they were such good friends but it wouldn't take long for Danny to figure out exactly how Flack feels. In my shipper mind Danny would feel exactly the same way and all would be right in the world.

But on the show, I have a feeling he wouldn't feel the same way and their friendship would somewhat be compromised. Danny would feel a little awkward working with him at first and of course, Mac would pick up on the fact that something wasn't right.

I think the unrequited way is the only way the writers would go on the show with Flack and Danny, which is why, if we're looking for happily ever after, it's best left to fanfic. I admit that I am totally intrigued by the idea of exploring Flack's feelings for Danny, if for just how original and groundbreaking the plotline would be. I like the idea of Flack's feelings coming out in a tense situation, and then they'd have to deal with it.

dutch_treat said:
I don't see this happening. There's no way that either one of them is gonna confess his feelings for the other on the show. When they (TPTB) are brave enough to do that they may as well make the whole relationship canon. And I'm sorry for all you D/F shippers but (even after this week's ep) I still don't think that is going to happen.

Although I must admit that your talking about it made me notice several (funny to me/shippy to you) things in this week's ep. And I spilled my drink laughing when I heard Danny calling "(I am right) behind you, Flack" , when they were chasing that guy down the alley.

:lol: There's a screencap of Flack behind Danny after they tackle Shane that's even more...descriptive. :lol:

Do I really think they'll go canon? No, not at all. It's an unfortunate reality that American television is pretty damn narrow-minded when it comes to same sex pairings, at least on network TV. But would it be much more original and compelling than the weak Danny and Lindsay pairing? Oh, hell yes. If just for the fact that we don't see it on every TV show out there, done over and over again, yes. And really, that's all I'm looking for. That's why I like Danny and Stella, or even Stella and Flack--it would be unexpected, something that's allowed to develop naturally. Danny and Lindsay are all formula--there is not one ounce of originality and creativity in that storyline. It's by-the-book scripted sexual tension, with a bit of the "oh we want each other but can't be together" cliche thrown in. Please, give us something better than that.

 

[dutch_treat]

Re: The Great Ship Debate--CSI: NY

1CSIMfan said:
DL may be on paper (why they even thought of it, I don't know), but paper can be burned, erased, lost, etc.

:lol: :lol: but I'd choose to copy it and put these copies up everywhere

I think the DL thing will last until her secret is revealed, if it lasts that long.

I am afraid that the revelation of the secret indeed is the end of D/L being mentioned, although I hope it will not. And when they end the on screen interaction I'm at least counting on it that they make it a GSR thing (we know it's there but that's all we know :devil

I'm not convinced that having a romance will benefit the show. Why? If people don't like CSI because it's about the science, adding slight hints of a romance won't win anybody over. They can watch Grey's Anatomy if they want romance.

I do think it will win people over. I even know of a few who never liked the show(s), but did start watching it when they heard it was not all lab talk, but people with their own fights and secrets and affairs.

Does everyone in the real world who work together date each other? I don't think so. Not that it doesn't happen but they do it on all TV shows. The entire cast of Beverly Hills, 90210 practically dated each other at one point. Too unrealistic.

Not everyone does it, but there is a lot of romance at work. Whooa BH90210 that's a blast from the past (weren't they at high school and not working yet). But I agree that was not realistic at all. And although I do like GA (I'm a romantic - I admit) that's too unrealisic for me either. I believe almost everyone has slept with everyone already .

I think that's all the fans need to see.

Well I cannot speak for all of us/them, but I do think that a lot of people like to see one or two ships go canon. I know I would and I don't think that I'm alone .

I am just so intrigued by the way we all watch the same show and see things so differently.

I know, I think that's great too. Just wish that more were coming here to discuss the many ships that are sailing in the NY waters.

Top41 said:
Do I really think they'll go canon? No, not at all. It's an unfortunate reality that American television is pretty damn narrow-minded when it comes to same sex pairings, at least on network TV. But would it be much more original and compelling than the weak Danny and Lindsay pairing? Oh, hell yes. If just for the fact that we don't see it on every TV show out there, done over and over again, yes. And really, that's all I'm looking for. That's why I like Danny and Stella, or even Stella and Flack--it would be unexpected, something that's allowed to develop naturally. Danny and Lindsay are all formula--there is not one ounce of originality and creativity in that storyline. It's by-the-book scripted sexual tension, with a bit of the "oh we want each other but can't be together" cliche thrown in. Please, give us something better than that.

I do admit that D/L are a bit cliche. But not every relationship has to be unexpected or original. And maybe the fact that you are used to mostly American television makes you want to see something else. But over here the gay and bisexual is so much in every TV show (both public and pay TV) that a nice guy/girl romance is almost more original now.

 

[AlyssaluvsDanny]

Re: The Great Ship Debate--CSI: NY

You know, I really don't think that any CSI would go with a slash pairing. And I don't want to sound like I am against it because I'm not.(In fact, I think Nick and Greg would be one hot couple.) I agree that the storyling would be groundbreaking and it would have everyone talking, but just as many people who like the idea of Danny/Flack hooking up there are just as many people are against it. There are internet fanbases and then there are off line fanbases who grow up in a conserved enviorment and might stop watching if they did put them together. And the same can be said for more people who might watch if they decide to go ahead with a storyline so big. I just think it's a big risk and I doubt it'll take the chance to do something that could have drastic effects on ratings.

I think Danny and Lindsay are a cute couple. I like the fact that they are so different. And not because he is a "player", but because he's more brass and open while Lindsay is more quiet. I wish that they would back off a little and leave some stuff for the imagination.

 

[Faylinn]

Re: The Great Ship Debate--CSI: NY

The idea of feelings between two of the male characters, unrequited or not, would definitely be an interesting plotline. However, I don't think there's a Danny/Flack fan on this site that actually expects the pairing to go canon--that doesn't make it any less interesting to discuss.

I don't think the writers will take a chance with a slash pairing, but I've never thought the comments on TalkCSI were any kind of indication for how every CSI fan feels. I know that some of the more vocal posters on this site like slash, and for NY fans, that tends to be D/F, but I've never thought that meant a lot of fans would like it. I'm sure oodles of NY fans love Danny/Lindsay and want to ooh and ahh over their relationship on the show, but I'm still going to stand by my opinion that it's not a good idea. The writers have done absolutely nothing to convince me that it's necessary or that it's going to be good for the show.

I'm sure that there are people who only tuned in to CSI:NY because of the rumors of romance, but I also know that the people who've been into the show since the beginning liked it because of the science. Is it worth alienating some viewers to gain others? Do TPTB think that the only way to entice people to watch is by trying to snag viewers from shows like Grey's Anatomy? Consider the positive reception to this week's episode of NY. There was no romance, but it was an excellent episode. That's the kind of show I hope to see when I turn on CSI:NY. I cringe at the very idea of having to sit through more scenes of Danny and Lindsay's so-called 'chemistry.' I shouldn't dread an episode because two characters are working a case together--and yet, part of me is dreading "Oedipus Hex" for that very reason. Danny and Lindsay are supposed to be professionals, but I can't believe that the writers would be able to resist some sort of line where Danny grovels and Lindsay pushes away. If they want to further Lindsay's backstory, here's a novel idea--use Lindsay to do it.

Danny and Lindsay are all formula

Very true. That's how I see it as well. Formula romance works, that's the whole idea, but sometimes it pays to step out of the box. When CSI first came out, it was an interesting take on a popular idea. Why couldn't the franchise use that same idea here? This is a scientific show, can't they mix things up and come up with a new formula?

I think Danny and Lindsay are a cute couple. I like the fact that they are so different. And not because he is a "player", but because he's more brass and open while Lindsay is more quiet.

I hear that, over and over again, to justify why this ship is so great. I'm not saying it's wrong or that people can't feel this way, it's just...Is that all it is? They're attractive people who look cute together? They come from different backgrounds, so they must be opposites and opposites attract? A relationship like this doesn't offer much chance to really push the characters, do develop them in an interesting way. What's going to happen--Lindsay will deal with her demons, she'll tell Danny she's ready to try the relationship, and their personalities will rub off on each other and all that jazz? Seen it. Repeatedly. I'm not sure it's even possible to leave this relationship to the imagination. It doesn't seem to stand on it's own beyond the shaky scenes that the writers include in the dialogue.

In any case, I have the utmost respect for differing opinions. I don't think anybody in this thread or forum or board is wrong. I just don't agree. *shrug*

I know, I think that's great too. Just wish that more were coming here to discuss the many ships that are sailing in the NY waters.

Some people don't like to discuss or debate, or to hear negative opinions about what they love. I'm clearly not one of them, but I know that a lot of the members here feel that way.

I do admit that D/L are a bit cliche. But not every relationship has to be unexpected or original.

No, but if a show is going to go with a romance between two main characters, why not make a bit more effort and do something interesting? Or, better yet, scrap the main-character romance and acknowledge that relationships are there but concentrate on the non-romantic feelings? A friendship like that between Mac and Stella is something that I'd love to see more of, and I think it would be much more intriguing to see their friendship develop than to see them fall in love and drive off into the sunset.

It's true that a more unconventional relationship is uncommon on American tv, but I'm more concerned that the two characters involved are truly compatible, regardless of their gender. Danny/Flack on the show could be interesting simply because it's not typical, but that's not why I ship it (and I've given those reasons countless times before, so I'll spare you ).

Ultimately, I prefer that ships aren't on the show. The idea of Flack having feelings for Danny would be interesting, but I have no faith that the writers would do the storyline well or continue to do it well over time.

 

[Top41]

Re: The Great Ship Debate--CSI: NY

dutch_treat said:
I do admit that D/L are a bit cliche. But not every relationship has to be unexpected or original. And maybe the fact that you are used to mostly American television makes you want to see something else. But over here the gay and bisexual is so much in every TV show (both public and pay TV) that a nice guy/girl romance is almost more original now.

I guess that's a cultural thing--American TV is sadly behind the times. I look forward to when it will be the norm.

As for a guy/girl romance--I'm all for it. Just give us something that feels natural. My biggest problem with Danny and Lindsay--well, aside from the fact that the actors have no chemistry together--is that it's so incredibly scripted. The writers' intentions have been clear from day one, and because they overwrote the interactions between Danny and Lindsay, there was no chance for it to feel like something was developing naturally. Contrast that with Catherine and Warrick in season five of CSI. That development wasn't in the cards from day one--it came up, stayed in the background for the most part, but was always there between the lines. Real chemistry doesn't require a scripted scene in every episode to remind the audience that it's there.

If the writers had sat back and let the natural pairings become apparent, it would have felt much more real. Danny and Lindsay are a paint-by-numbers romance. It might have worked if the actors had chemistry together, but the lack of that combined with some truly poor writing, just makes it painful to watch.

I agree that in general, romance is best left outside the shows, though I think CSI is doing a good job with Grissom and Sara thusfar. But really, small interactions between the characters are generally all the audience wants to see. There are soap operas for those wanting romance heavy shows.

 

[dutch_treat]

Re: The Great Ship Debate--CSI: NY

Faylinn said:
I'm sure that there are people who only tuned in to CSI:NY because of the rumors of romance, but I also know that the people who've been into the show since the beginning liked it because of the science. Is it worth alienating some viewers to gain others? Do TPTB think that the only way to entice people to watch is by trying to snag viewers from shows like Grey's Anatomy? Consider the positive reception to this week's episode of NY. There was no romance, but it was an excellent episode. That's the kind of show I hope to see when I turn on CSI:NY.

I did start watching CSI because of the science (being performed by some very attractive people ). And I do hope that the bit of romance that is being thrown in gains some new viewers. Of course it would be a shame when because of that others would stop watching, that's something I would never wanna see happen. I cannot go into the discussion about the networks using romance on their shows to compete with eachother because I know too little about the American TV schedules.

I shouldn't dread an episode because two characters are working a case together--and yet, part of me is dreading "Oedipus Hex" for that very reason.

It saddens me to read that. For you dreading to watch just because there is a good change of some non case related interaction is just not the way to be looking forward to a new ep. I like it when D/L work together but I do like to watch episodes where they are not too. As many others I thought this week's ep was great and needed no romantic angle at all.

It's true that a more unconventional relationship is uncommon on American tv, but I'm more concerned that the two characters involved are truly compatible, regardless of their gender. Danny/Flack on the show could be interesting simply because it's not typical, but that's not why I ship it (and I've given those reasons countless times before, so I'll spare you ).

Ultimately, I prefer that ships aren't on the show. The idea of Flack having feelings for Danny would be interesting, but I have no faith that the writers would do the storyline well or continue to do it well over time.

I've read a lot of reasons why people ship D/F and still the only thing I see is two guys getting along very well nothing more and nothing less. And I will be cheering with you if TPTB ever only hinted that something might be there, but for now I do believe it's best to be kept to the vivid imagination of you and your fellow shippers.

The fact that the writers can ruin it is the greatest fear I have with shipping D/L. Especially after that LRC conversation. They are making it a bit too much of a very cheap romance novel to my taste. And I do hope we get more non verbal communication :devil:.

Top41 said:
I guess that's a cultural thing--American TV is sadly behind the times. I look forward to when it will be the norm.

Although I'm proud of my country and how open minded the majority of it's population is. I just watched the 1st birthday party of the baby that was born in the Big Brother house a year ago. And at moments like that I sometimes wish we didn't always have to be the ones to explore something first (but that's completely of topic).

If the writers had sat back and let the natural pairings become apparent, it would have felt much more real. Danny and Lindsay are a paint-by-numbers romance. It might have worked if the actors had chemistry together, but the lack of that combined with some truly poor writing, just makes it painful to watch. I agree that in general, romance is best left outside the shows, though I think CSI is doing a good job with Grissom and Sara thusfar.

About the actors not having chemistry together I don't agree with you. I did see a spark between them the first scene they did together and I think it's still there. They perhaps (and I don't blame them) sometimes don't like their scripts. But I do believe that they feel comfortable together, get along very well, have fun and respect each other and that's what appeals to me.

And if there could be a GSR way of handling D/L I would be all for it.

 

[kinkapoodles]

Re: The Great Ship Debate--CSI: NY

It saddens me to read that. For you dreading to watch just because there is a good change of some non case related interaction is just not the way to be looking forward to a new ep. I like it when D/L work together but I do like to watch episodes where they are not too. As many others I thought this week's ep was great and needed no romantic angle at all.

I too almost dread the next episode. I don't wanna see another episode like Love Run Cold. Watching the DL interaction throughout that episode was just painful. Watching Danny be so whiny was nauseating. He followed her around like a little puppy. That's why we're dreading this week's episode. I don't care if DL work together but please, keep it professional.

I've read a lot of reasons why people ship D/F and still the only thing I see is two guys getting along very well nothing more and nothing less. And I will be cheering with you if TPTB ever only hinted that something might be there, but for now I do believe it's best to be kept to the vivid imagination of you and your fellow shippers.

If that's all you see between Danny and Flack, that's fine with us. I see absolutely nothing between DL (just two people working together) that isn't forced but I don't question those that do see something between them. What would be nice is if TPTB weren't afraid to take the DF route and if they knew how to do it.

About the actors not having chemistry together I don't agree with you. I did see a spark between them the first scene they did together and I think it's still there.

This is where we will NEVER agree. I see no chemistry whatsoever and the fact that Danny actually used that word made me cringe. I've never seen the tiniest spark. All I saw in their first scene together (which I watched again on Spike TV last night) was Danny picking on her and not in the nice way.

The only person I can see Danny being with on the show is Maka and she's not there anymore. They sizzled and they sparked from their first scenes. I also think that Jennifer would be a good pairing for Danny too. I saw something between them that I have never seen between DL.

 

[Faylinn]

Re: The Great Ship Debate--CSI: NY

I don't dread the next episode because of any interaction unrelated to the case, I dread it because I know the writers won't be able to resist. It won't just be two colleagues working together, it'll be something to do with their 'feelings' for each other, blah blah blah. He asked her out, she turned him down, why can't they just let it go? If they don't have a scene like that, I'll be surprised but happy--but I'm not counting on it.

I know that the writers intend for Danny and Lindsay to just have this amazing 'chemistry' that pops off the screen--but I think they put the cart before the horse when it came to developing that. Or they counted their chickens before they hatched, or whatever other cliche saying might apply. Any 'chemistry' that I see between Danny and Lindsay is limited purely to people who work together. I see nothing that would warrant rushing into a romantic entanglement. People who 'see' it claim that it's been there since the beginning, so I suppose the writers always had this in mind, but it just doesn't translate for me. The writers can put the word 'chemistry' into Danny's mouth in every episode, but it doesn't make up for the lack of it that I see when I watch the show. It's not just about dialogue, it's not just about what the writer's intend to be on the show. Carmine and Anna get along amazingly well, I'm sure, but their on-screen chemistry just doesn't sell D/L to me. Sorry.

I've never expected everyone to see what I see with Danny and Flack. There was a time that I would never have considered the relationship either. But, for whatever reason, I discovered the pairing and things went from there. The 'chemistry' that I see in this pairing is the same chemistry everyone else sees--I just choose to look beyond mere friendship (and I'm obviously not the only one who thinks that the scenes make it easy to do so ). I don't know that the writers ever intended for Danny and Flack to be good friends from the beginning, but the way that Carmine and Eddie play off of each other on screen is pure magic. It wouldn't surprise me if the writers took what was already there and expanded on it in the script. No, I don't think they intend for us to see something romantic there--but that's where the real difference is for me. I can take this tangible chemistry between Danny and Flack, these great scenes and interactions, and expand on it. With Danny and Lindsay, the scenes and interactions are cliche and (in Danny's case) out of character (because Lindsay still doesn't have a definite character in my opinion), the chemistry is clearly meant to be there but pales in comparison to what I see with Danny and Flack. I didn't like Danny/Lindsay even before I started to ship Danny/Flack, but when I compare the way the characters interact on screen, I'm not surprised that D/F, the atypical choice, is what I ended up following.

 

[chelliyah]

Re: The Great Ship Debate--CSI: NY

i have to say that the word "chemistry" is a cringey word,and i know many of you are going to disagree with me on this, but there are many different interpretations of chemistry between two people. IMO it doesnt have to be about Danny wanting to get in Lindsey's knickers, or vice versa. Danny could jus be using the term to describe how they are together, the way they interact with each other, etc.
Personally, i can see some chemistry there between them, and i want them to get together yes! lol I first got into the shows because of the cases, but i like having the excitement of "will they, wont they" ( not everyones cup of tea i know lol )

hehe as for D/F ..well, (**thinking of a way to make this not sound so .. offensive..???**) i have read the odd fic,.. but i dont think it would be a good thing for TPTB to put a D/F 'relationship' into the show. Not that i have anything against it, but i think it would be taking it too far in some sense. Each to their own i say, i have no problem with it at all.
I know that probably sounds totally wrong but i hope you understand what i mean lol