Louie's fate might be unknown (though I think both Lenkov and Carmine have said he's alive), but we've gotten several references to him from Danny since then. Alluding to the past in Lindsay's case would require some nuanced acting from Belknap--something that just doesn't seem to be within her range.
Except that it was alluded to in Pay Up. The fact that this was the first time in quite a while seems to say more about the writers' problems with story consistency. Aside from that episode where Danny was searching for baby names (and honestly, Louie = a name in my family - why not just
say it was his brother's name?), I think the last time we got reference to Louie was back in S3, wasn't it?
I remember him complaining about the bar mitzvah to Hawkes, but I think that's a kind of guy thing to do, and not all that weird. As for ignoring the call...I don't remember what he said when he did, but he and Hawkes were about to go question someone, weren't they? I don't know if those two little instances can speak too deeply to Danny's character. I've never really seen him as a player though.
He did seem like he was just complaining, but then Hawkes said "two hours out of your Saturday is a dealbreaker, huh?" It didn't sound like he was just reluctantly going to the party and griping about it, that made it sound like he actually dumped her rather than go to the party. I don't know what they were about to do when he got the phone call, haven't seen that episode in a while either, though I do remember his making some weird comment about how his girlfriend "loved to talk". Though I'll agree it's too brief and vague to really say much about his character, it's the only real thing we have on his other relationships.
He definitely seemed less interested in her in season four, but I don't think it was about sleeping with her and being done. If it was just a one-night stand, I doubt he would have switched shifts with her in "Snow Day."
I don't think it was quite a one-night stand either, not exactly...more like for a short time, she was a challenge that he couldn't get, and that's what seemed to make her more interesting. And then once he did get her, she wasn't a challenge anymore, he got bored. That's the way it really read to me.
I tend to think he saw something in her he didn't like, which kind of goes along with one of Carmine's CSI Files interviews, when he said something along the lines of Danny would find out "she's not everything he thought she would be" or something like that.
I have to find all these interviews! But yeah, this seems like a fair interpretation too, although it still seems to come down to the same thing. Why not dump her then if the relationship wasn't turning out as he expected? I don't know if this would've seemed less bothersome to me. But she seemed to so obviously care about him that if he was already losing interest, a quick clean break might actually have been nicer than just dragging it out until he hurt her. For the record, I don't think she would've actually gotten to the point of falling for him if he'd put the brakes on things early in S4.
No, and I don't think he came with that in mind, either. He came to support her as a friend--and she put the moves on him as soon as the trial concluded. Carmine said Danny didn't give it up until "Snow Day," but again, Danny has self-esteem issues, and might have just assumed that was what she wanted from him. She certainly didn't seem to want his support or friendship in season three--she turned to everyone but Danny to talk about her issues, and left him a card rather than telling him what was going on with her.
True, and in that light I can see how he might assume Lindsay just wanted him for sex. That scene always did bother me (couldn't the writers have just left it at the hug?), but I'm still seeing this as a breakdown in communication. She never looked to him for support or friendship, but she didn't really seem to look to anyone for this (telling Stella and Mac what happened because they're her bosses and demand an explanation, I really don't see this as counting). He, on the other hand, had made it clear that he was still interested in her through S3, and his showing up in Montana probably sent a red-light signal that he was still extremely interested - even if he was only there as a friend. So that made her interested in a relationship. I can see how it would. Like you said, she didn't seem to want his friendship in S3, all but shoved him down while she was shoving him away, but he still showed up? It's one of my favourite D/L friendship moments, but the romantic connotations to it all have ruined it completely for me.
I still think it's that Danny doesn't feel he has much to offer beyond the bedroom (or the pool table). He's an emotional, caring guy who doesn't seem to have an issue with women (thank goodness) or to disrespect them, but he also doesn't seem to know how to connect in a relationship.
I totally don't think Danny has a problem with women. So I guess yeah, I can get behind his insecurity leaving him unable to connect in a relationship. But this still leaves me all :brickwall: because it still begs the question,
why let yourself get caught in a relationship in the first place? I'm not sure how many of his girlfriends would've been satisfied had he simply let them know the score right away, but I have to think they probably would've been less affronted than they were once they were actually
in the relationship with him. Lindsay, yeah, she seemed to start really caring about him in an "I want an emotional relationship" way toward the end of S3, but I'm sure she, at least, would've still been fine with him had he let her know what he was and wasn't okay with from the start. Maybe not perfectly fine with him, but certainly more fine than she was by even "The Deep", let alone "Right Next Door".
Realistically, that's the way it would go, but I feel like all of their issues were swept under the rug to accommodate the baby story (ie, Anna Belknap's pregnancy). Though I don't think any of it has unfolded in the most healthy way, I think we're supposed to see them as happy together.
Yeah, no kidding...but it still sucks.
My pet peeve is when, in any medium, we're supposed to believe things are fine between the characters "because the writer(s) says so". It's not enough for me, especially when things are so obviously not fine like they are with D/L.
I've always suspected there was some sort of abuse in his past--emotional, physical, even sexual--that would explain the way he is. I still kind of wonder if at some point down the road that will be opened up and explored. There definitely seems to be something there, because he's a pretty messed up character.
Wow, I am in total agreement
I mean, I really think Louie tried to protect Danny from the worst of the elements in the neighbourhood they grew up in (because I think that's what Run Silent was largely about), but at the same time, I think some things would've inevitably gotten through his guard. I just wish they could expand on this a bit more. I don't know how much hope I have (I'm kind of using their promise of better character development as a life preserver, lol). But I really think this could come into play very interestingly, especially now that Danny has Lucy in his life.
I agree about the interest part, but at the same time, Danny has always been pretty caring (aside from when he was grappling with the loss of Ruben). I think she judged him overly harshly in that--I could see her thinking they wouldn't be together, but not that he'd want nothing to do with the baby. Another example of how neither really knows the other.
Well, I'm not sure I agree that they don't know each other, although certainly not enough to be in a relationship. One of the few things I liked about The Box was how Danny knew he literally had to corner Lindsay to make her talk to him about a personal problem - because that's how he's made her talk to him in the past. As for her judging him harshly, I didn't really see her looking from the perspective that he'd want nothing to do with the baby at all. I thought she just felt (not unreasonably) that he wouldn't be interested in the pregnancy aspect of things. Maybe, by a stretch, in the custody aspect of things too.
Again, I can't quite agree with that. I think he knew on some level she didn't want to deal with his messy emotions, and so he didn't go to her accordingly. I've never seen him not taking her seriously or dismissing her, aside from in "Right Next Door," when he'd already come to the conclusion that she wasn't offering up any support.
Except that she did want to deal with those emotions - she said so in RND. I never saw the problem being her not wanting to deal with those emotions. At least, not as of S4 (though, from seasons past, I can understand how Danny might've gotten the feeling that she didn't want to deal with him emotionally). The problem was always in her never going
to him and letting him know that she wanted to deal with them. She just kept waiting for him to come to her. Which he never did, and I'm still iffy on if he ever would have. There's not a lot of interaction they had in S4, but the one time before Child's Play that they did touch on something kind of emotional (Lindsay telling him she'd been worried about him, and how Hawkes was lucky to have him there), he brushed her off ("Stop goofing off, we've got work to do"). Which may well have been true, but still isn't that confidence-inspiring. Especially since I think it was the only time, ever, that Lindsay has even come close to admitting something like that. Just in general, he doesn't seem great with the emotional aspect of girlfriends.
He even talked to Angell a bit about it when she asked. Lindsay simply wasn't there for him and he knew it.
The scene with Angell was actually precisely what I had in mind when I wondered who Danny would've opened up to had they asked him. As I remember it, the only thing Danny said to Angell was "his name was Ruben", and that's when she told him she'd heard about the kid in his building who'd died. Angell said "I'm sorry", really sympathetically (it was actually one of her few good moments), and Danny shut down. He didn't say anything else after that, which is what leaves me wondering just how open he would've been to sympathy from anyone else. Even Flack seemed to have to push a bit to get anything significant out of him.
I don't think he liked her to begin with. She was replacing Aiden, she was competitive, she wasn't all that nice. I think she was interested pretty early on, but sometimes she didn't seem quite sure how to flirt with him. She would be kind of snarky or competitive with him, which he seemed to find off-putting.
Agreed. It was a bad start. Shaky is probably the most complimentary thing I could say about their beginning, and it largely seemed to go downhill from there.
Maybe--it was such a jarring 180 that it's hard to say. I imagine the Montana case had a lot to do with it, but it's not really an excuse to stand him up on a date. Why not just say "no" to begin with? I thought that really made her unsympathetic, especially when he then had to chase her down to even get a real answer.
I've always figured the date was set before (or during) Not What It Looks Like - when Lindsay was still fine with a casual flirtation with Danny. Before things got serious. Because I totally have to agree with you about the whole "just say no to begin with" - I'm having trouble believing that Lindsay (heck,
anyone) would set a date with the intention of not showing up. Just logically, it makes no sense, not in this kind of situation. It wasn't like she just stood him up - she didn't even call to say she wasn't coming. And it's not like Danny was some random stranger or blind date she'd never have to worry about seeing again, she shares an office with the guy. Obviously it was going to come up, though she did try to avoid him as long as she could. But just rationally, people don't behave that way unless an emergency or crisis comes up.
I think she bought it because she does love him. And I don't know that it was fake so much as a sign of desperation. He didn't want her to go off to Montana, have her family tell her he was no good, and lose that baby.
Yeah, I think she bought it for that exact same reason. But Lindsay's not exactly the type to kid herself for years on end - she was kidding herself regarding Danny's investment in their relationship through (I think) the first half of S4, but she did, finally, get the message that he just wasn't into her. And I think I agree about Danny's only saying "I love you" out of desperation, but for me it's still fake, because he's lying. He doesn't love her, he shouldn't be telling her he does. I know that Lucy is his primary concern right now, but how is Lindsay
not going to be hurt when (*sigh*...if, more like, thanks to the writers) she figures out he's lying? I don't think he's thinking about that at all, which may be understandable but really isn't fair to Lindsay by any standard.
Great point about Danny being the Edward Cullen of CSI: NY; Lindsay is certainly the Bella Swann that girls can imagine themselves as. Danny was definitely the babe of the show from the beginning, that's for sure.
Lol, agreed. Though for me it wasn't so much linking Lindsay with Bella Swan. It was unsurprising to see all those fangirls (I think they're all fangirls) viewing Danny as this perfect guy because Lindsay, around late S3/early S4, largely seemed to also be viewing Danny as a perfect guy too. Which does tell me that she didn't know him from...well, Adam, although I think she's gotten better at this.
I can't really see Lindsay with one of the other guys on the show, aside from maybe Mac. Flack treats her like his competition for Danny (which she is--one of my fav lines from him is "You should piss Lindsay off more often" from "Personal Foul") and Hawkes has never shown much interest in her. The only thing that really has saved Lindsay from total Mary-Sue-dom is that not every guy is falling all over her--she's something of a plain Jane, and Danny is really the only one who's ever expressed any romantic interest in her.
Oh gosh, I know - it was the only saving grace I found during those first few episodes I saw her in! And even then, I was all but screaming into a pillow when I watched Stuck on You (I think maybe the fourth episode I ever saw her in?) because for a moment it looked like one of the suspects was hitting on her and I was just like "get rid of her
now!"
But as for the ships...Mac/Lindsay, I have to admit, sends creepy-crawlies down my spine, because it's far too reminiscent of Sara/Grissom. But almost all of Flack and Lindsay's onscreen interactions have cracked me up. I don't know how much I agree that they view each other as rivals for Danny - they seem to randomly pick on each other about things completely separate from Danny. Yet at the same time, they seem to laugh when it comes to more personal things. I've actually thought that Danny was the one thing they bonded on. (And um, I have to admit that scenes like the "doll/wife" one in Sex, Lies, and Silicone, and Sam thinking they were dating in Dead Inside kind of get me in a crack-ish way. It's scenes like that [and Laughing Larry] that leave me doubting that Flack actually resents Lindsay for stealing his best friend.) I can't really see them together seriously, as in "this could be canon one day" way, but I do think they'd be cute, and that they'd work better than D/L if they did. At the very least, they're not likely to be as emotionally unstable.
I'll give you Hawkes, there doesn't seem to be any personal interest, but I just like the way they always play off of each other on their cases, and the way they kind of fed off of each other's frustration and pain in Pay Up. For a long time in S3, Hawkes seemed to replace Danny as the CSI Lindsay was friendliest with, and there was the Montana thing at the end of S4. *shrug* It's shipping. It doesn't have to make sense
