CSI:NY Spoiler Discussion - Bring on Season 6!

[Maya316]

I just don't see that between Stella and Lindsay, perhaps because of that awkwardness.

Easy warmth is nice, and I agree it says a lot that Catherine went to Sara in that episode (think it might've been season 7). But it still looks as though they were just written to be friendly-ish coworkers, and the actors extrapolate on that. I figured Catherine went to Sara because she'd generally be more empathetic than any of the guys, and Sara has a thing about rape cases. Scenes like the one in the hospital and the phone-call to Montana make it look like the CSINY writers purposely Lindsay and Stella to be friends beyond work, and this is something consistent through the show.

It would be nice to see her grow from that, though, especially given that she's married to the most emotional character on the show. A great storyline for Lindsay would be for something terrible to happen to Danny, and for her to have to find a way to be there for him. She's married to him now--she can't pass him off on Flack or someone else who's better at dealing with Danny's emotional downs.

I totally agree. If Danny is shot in the diner, maybe we'll see work done on Lindsay's character as they deal with it. I do feel there's a lot of work to be done on both sides - Danny might actually have to, you know, go to Lindsay if he expects her to help, but then Lindsay might have to get over the feeling that she should wait until Danny comes to her, and go to him instead. Gah.

While I think it's definitely true that Hawkes has been short-changed as a character until this season, I can't agree about Flack. I think we've seen a lot of Flack's character in how he reacts to the different characters on the show. He's stepped up and been there for Mac during the 333 case, and he and Mac interact as equals, which is interesting considering the disparity in their ages. Flack knew not to condescend to or coddle Stella after what happened with Frankie in "All Access." And we've seen time and time again how he'll drop everything for Danny to be there to support him emotionally, or save him if he's in trouble. I feel like we've learned a lot about Flack in previous seasons, which has only been fleshed out and built upon this year.

Flack has been fleshed out through the show in preparation for S5, I agree, but in all those instances he was doing exactly what you mentioned Lindsay does - reacting to their storylines (Mac's/Danny's/Stella's). That's how a lot of the other characters were also fleshed out.

I think a better actress could have done much more with that material. Part of the problem with Anna Belknap is that she comes off completely cold as Lindsay--there's a hardness to her in some of those emotional scenes that I don't think the character is supposed to have. You have to be able to connect with a character when he/she is having a breakdown--Flack is one of the toughest characters on the show, but I bought it completely when he broke down over Angell's death. Belknap is a big part of what keeps me, and others, from connecting with Lindsay.

Personal opinion again, but I've always figured that Lindsay was supposed to be a bit cold in general. Always smiling, still holding people off at arm's length. Isn't that what defined the whole thing about her snapping at Danny in Zoo York and that cop who called her Dorothy in Dancing with the Fishes? I thought it was what made her tough enough to stay in New York despite being the "new kid from the country". It's what made it more believable for me when Lindsay started pushing everyone away in S3.This might, however, be the element Belknap added to the character, rather than what the writers intended.

The acting is pretty integral to the show, though. We don't need Academy Award worthy performances on a weekly basis, but when an actor or actress is given an emotional storyline, he/she needs to be able to pull that off in a convincing way--and connect to the audience while doing so. Belknap doesn't do that, at least not for a lot of us.

I can understand that, but the fact that Belknap doesn't manage to connect with a lot of you hardly means she's a disgrace to crime shows everywhere. If she didn't pull off her emotional storyline that well, she does perform her typical, job-description role of CSI in a way that's clearly worthy of the show. I've seen even people who dislike her admit that she performs well whenever they keep her away from the emotional stuff.

I was cringing through most of Stella's emotional scenes in Grounds for Deception, and I still tend to fast forward entire parts of All Access, but it doesn't stop me from looking forward to watching MK in new CSI episodes anyway. The basic acting she's supposed to do is always good. Stella's fun to watch as a CSI, I don't care what she's like as a CSI "going through things".

Miami has Valera, who has been around since the first or second season, though she's not in the main credits. Angell's popularity was nowhere near what Adam's is, no--that's definitely for sure. So yes, I'm sure when it came to deciding who to make a regular, that factored into it. But at the same time, I don't think you can ignore the detective precedent--Sofia Curtis and Yelina Salas were both written out of their respective shows, too.

Lol, that's where Yelina went. :lol: I know the detective precedent is important, but I still maintain there are ways of keeping characters on shows if enough people really want to see them. Sofia wasn't always a detective, she started off as Daytime CSI supervisor, didn't she? Hawkes was moved to the CSIs presumably to make room for a non-regular ME, never mind the mind-boggling leap of logic that required. (I know you at least have to have some police training and possibly a degree to become a CSI, being a former doctor isn't enough.) I don't know what training Angell might've had, or what other job options might be available for a Homicide Detective, but I'm sure they could've made just as big a leap if demand for Angell had been high enough. And I'm looking at the other expenses they have on the show (like virtual autopsies and bullet-proof Hummers and random famous people in every episode, and whatever else), things that could've been cut back on to keep EV on the show. Even as a still-recurring character. But things that were ultimately seen as more integral to the show than Angell. I do have to think that back in S4 when Robert Joy wasn't a regular, if it had come down to him or, you know, virtual autopsies, there would've been a little more of an issue.

They didn't exactly sulk in the way Lindsay did, and they didn't pass off unpleasant responsibilities on others, the way Lindsay did to Danny in "Oedipus Hex." There was something incredibly manipulative about the way she did that which has never sat well with me.

Yeah, I guess it could be seen as manipulative. I think I'd have to believe that Lindsay knew Danny felt something serious for her, though, before I could believe she intentionally manipulated him. Or rather, I'd have to believe Danny actually did feel something important for her before I could see this as manipulation, and not as something a friend would ask of another friend (and said friend would do).

It does seem to be a defining element of the character….I’m just not sure if that was the intent or something that happened due to more focus on the developing romance as opposed to Lindsay’s relationships with others. Ultimately, though, I think we’re supposed to see this particular team as a family of sorts, and in Lindsay’s case, it seems they’ve neglected some of the moments that could’ve made her fit in better as a member of that family.

Well, Top41 and I were discussing how Lindsay is often emotionally unavailable - people reach out to her a lot, and she doesn't reach back. It's not surprising that a casualty of that trait would be her having no emotional connection to anyone other than Danny. Danny's also the only one who kept at it with all the subtlety of a bulldozer. It's part of the reason I think he might've gotten through. Huh. Which does suggest that they spent a lot more time on developing D/L, but I can't believe it was completely unintentional that the most emotional character on the show is the only one who's gotten through to the most distant, aloof character on the show. I think that says something important about Lindsay's character, something the writers intended to say.

Stella has shown care and concern for Lindsay and seems genuinely supportive about the marriage and baby. In a way, that’s to be expected, though, -- it’s reflective of Stella’s personality and role on the team and is a positive element of the character. On the other hand, Lindsay’s lack of reciprocation is one of the things that makes her seem self-focused and less likable to me.

That might be the case, but these shows of care and concern still indicate that Stella is genuinely fond of Lindsay, even if she is awkward around her. On Lindsay's side, her lack of reciprocation makes it seem as though she's all "take and no give", but I don't believe she's completely cold when it coms to Stella either. She's gotten upset when something bad happened to Stella, she was there to help with revenge-seeking Drew. I do think a lot on this relationship has been sacrificed to focus on other things, but I'd still say there is a relationship there.

I think Lindsay has a fanbase as do all the characters on this series. Some seem to like her for her own qualities; others, perhaps because she is part of the romantic storyline. On the other side, there are those that actually dislike the character and also some who, although not particularly enamored, find her tolerable or are simply used to seeing her as part of the team. How that breaks down among the 12-13 million viewers, I don’t know….Personally, I see her as more of a supporting character and not one who is likely to be the main or primary draw for a significant number of viewers across the board. But that overall appeal is something TPIC will likely assess if they are considering reducing screen time or eliminating Lindsay or any other character for that matter.

...

Yeah, I gotta agree with what Top41 said. And I’d go even further to say that personally, I didn’t find Lindsay to be that endearing even in season 2. However, she was more interesting during that time because she came across as spunkier, more proactive, a bit competitive, and intent on impressing/pleasing Mac. The dark secret storyline didn’t make her more real to me – just more confusing and inconsistent, and the romance made me more indifferent to the character in part because I don’t’ see the chemistry between the actors/characters. I would say Lindsay really only started to grate on me this season when the romance became public and the other characters started to be pulled into its orbit.

:alienblush: Well, my point was more along the lines that many people who responded well to S2 Lindsay because they saw her as "spunky" and "attractive" are still the same people who are her fans today - and others, like yourself, put up with her because at least she was interesting when she was just spunky. Didn't mean to come across as a rabid fan myself, I was more trying to make a point about the new character. Like you said earlier, people either like or put up with spunky characteres, and therefore forgive the other characters for responding to them with special treatment. When they stop becoming so endearing (usually around the same time they're given a storyline that requires them to act less than perky 24/7), the onscreen response to them stops making as much sense, and just gets annoying. I think it's a dilemma Kaye Sullivan is going to face, which means they're either going to leave her perky and 2D forever, or she'll become the next divisive character on CSI NY.

 

[Faylinn]

My money is still on Hawkes getting killed, and I may very well lose that bet. I just have a feeling about it.

*sigh*

*shoves him into the safety of the closet* :shifty:

 

[CdfSjaI]

I actually don't think it will be Hawkes at all. He seemed the most calm when they were doing that cliffhanger video interviews (anyone know what i'm talking about?) He started joking about how Hawkes needed a girlfriend. Silly Hill. :lol: Everyone else (Carmine and Eddie especially were much more concerned) Maybe i'm reading too much into this, but that's me. Oh jeez, it could be anyone. Either way, it better be "life-changing" as they have promised.

*needs more spoilers!*

Oh and welcome Maya! I see you have lots of thoughts on Lindsay. I do too, but mine aren't good.

 

[Top41]

Good points about Anna and the pregnancies. She mentioned in an interview I read how hard it was to act perky and not pregnant while in real life she was pregnant. I think it really affected how she played the character.

And therein lies the inherent problem with Anna Belknap. She has a problem acting something other than what she is, which is kind of a problem for someone who is supposed to be an actress. Countless other actresses, like Mariska Hargitay and I think Melina herself, have had to act while pregnant and have somehow managed to pull it off. I didn't even realize Chyler Leigh on Grey's Anatomy was pregnant this season until I read about her giving birth to her baby a week or so ago. It's a little tiring to hear Anna go on and on about how hard it is for her to do her job when so many others do the same--and do it well.

It worked to her advantage in S5 when they decided to write in the baby and I think it showed a lot in how comfortable she was in the character of Lindsay.

To me it showed how comfortable Anna was with material that challenged her the least as an actress. She had to play a pregnant woman...while she was pregnant. All the meaty emotional stuff was given to Carmine--very wisely so--and when Lindsay did have one scene of contemplation (the chemicals), Anna flubbed it.

I also see redundancies between the characters of Lindsay and Hawkes. Unless Anna wants to leave the show, that is why I always go with Hawkes as the victim of the shootout. It just makes sense to in light of everything else that happened in S5.

Hill is very, very gung-ho about the show and being on the show and developing Hawkes. I just don't see him being written out, or wanting to leave. It would suck royally if they fired him, and I just don't really see that happening.

Easy warmth is nice, and I agree it says a lot that Catherine went to Sara in that episode (think it might've been season 7). But it still looks as though they were just written to be friendly-ish coworkers, and the actors extrapolate on that. I figured Catherine went to Sara because she'd generally be more empathetic than any of the guys, and Sara has a thing about rape cases. Scenes like the one in the hospital and the phone-call to Montana make it look like the CSINY writers purposely Lindsay and Stella to be friends beyond work, and this is something consistent through the show.

I think the whole arc of "Greater Good" was meant to show that the team is a family, but yes, I can see how that can be interpreted as evidence of friendship between Stella and Lindsay. The call in "Sleight Out of Hand" felt more like an plot point used to be an impetus for Danny to go to Montana, but I can see that as evidence of it, too. The lack of a natural chemistry between the two is what gives me pause more than anything.

I totally agree. If Danny is shot in the diner, maybe we'll see work done on Lindsay's character as they deal with it. I do feel there's a lot of work to be done on both sides - Danny might actually have to, you know, go to Lindsay if he expects her to help, but then Lindsay might have to get over the feeling that she should wait until Danny comes to her, and go to him instead. Gah.

Danny has constantly gone out of his way to go to her when he's sensed something off with her--I don't think it's unreasonable for him to expect her to reciprocate. He does tend to go to Flack when he's in distress, but then Flack is constantly there for him, so much so that Lindsay called Flack in "All in the Family" when Danny went missing.

Flack has been fleshed out through the show in preparation for S5, I agree, but in all those instances he was doing exactly what you mentioned Lindsay does - reacting to their storylines (Mac's/Danny's/Stella's). That's how a lot of the other characters were also fleshed out.

To some extent, but he also had his own storylines with his mentor in season one, and then his dilemma over the log book in season three. A lot of who Flack is is tied in with his sense of integrity and loyalty, so I don't think those episodes can be easily dismissed. I also think Flack's snark and wit say a lot about who he is, and that's peppered throughout all of the episodes.

Personal opinion again, but I've always figured that Lindsay was supposed to be a bit cold in general. Always smiling, still holding people off at arm's length. Isn't that what defined the whole thing about her snapping at Danny in Zoo York and that cop who called her Dorothy in Dancing with the Fishes? I thought it was what made her tough enough to stay in New York despite being the "new kid from the country". It's what made it more believable for me when Lindsay started pushing everyone away in S3.This might, however, be the element Belknap added to the character, rather than what the writers intended.

Maybe, but it's hard to reconcile "cute" and "sweet" and "enthusiastic" with "cold." I don't think Lindsay was originally intended to be a cold character--the scenes where she defended herself as a country girl were supposed to come off as "tough" and "stronger than she looks" maybe. The coldness is very off-putting in the character.

I can understand that, but the fact that Belknap doesn't manage to connect with a lot of you hardly means she's a disgrace to crime shows everywhere. If she didn't pull off her emotional storyline that well, she does perform her typical, job-description role of CSI in a way that's clearly worthy of the show. I've seen even people who dislike her admit that she performs well whenever they keep her away from the emotional stuff.

Sure, she's fine when she's reciting facts. But actors need to be able to do a little more than that, even in a crime drama. Look how A.J. took straightforward lab data lines and added an underlying nervousness to them to create a character. Or the way Danny bounces when he's excited or nervous. Or the zest with which Flack's lines are delivered. That's acting. It doesn't have to be in the big emotional storylines--it's about creating a fully realized, fleshed out character. Anna hasn't done that.

I was cringing through most of Stella's emotional scenes in Grounds for Deception, and I still tend to fast forward entire parts of All Access, but it doesn't stop me from looking forward to watching MK in new CSI episodes anyway. The basic acting she's supposed to do is always good. Stella's fun to watch as a CSI, I don't care what she's like as a CSI "going through things".

To each their own--if I didn't find Melina's acting convincing, I'd probably like Stella less as a character. Bad acting takes me out of the moment, out of the scene, and as a viewer who likes to be drawn in, I find that frustrating.

Lol, that's where Yelina went. :lol: I know the detective precedent is important, but I still maintain there are ways of keeping characters on shows if enough people really want to see them. Sofia wasn't always a detective, she started off as Daytime CSI supervisor, didn't she? Hawkes was moved to the CSIs presumably to make room for a non-regular ME, never mind the mind-boggling leap of logic that required. (I know you at least have to have some police training and possibly a degree to become a CSI, being a former doctor isn't enough.) I don't know what training Angell might've had, or what other job options might be available for a Homicide Detective, but I'm sure they could've made just as big a leap if demand for Angell had been high enough. And I'm looking at the other expenses they have on the show (like virtual autopsies and bullet-proof Hummers and random famous people in every episode, and whatever else), things that could've been cut back on to keep EV on the show. Even as a still-recurring character. But things that were ultimately seen as more integral to the show than Angell. I do have to think that back in S4 when Robert Joy wasn't a regular, if it had come down to him or, you know, virtual autopsies, there would've been a little more of an issue.

I still don't think it's any comment on Emmanuelle Vaugier, though I do think it's fair to say Angell wasn't wildly popular in the way Adam and even Sid are. Still, she was popular enough that they figured her death would have an impact on the fanbase. CSI characters who don't register, or who don't register much, are just written out, like some of the lab techs have been on the various shows.

Yeah, I guess it could be seen as manipulative. I think I'd have to believe that Lindsay knew Danny felt something serious for her, though, before I could believe she intentionally manipulated him. Or rather, I'd have to believe Danny actually did feel something important for her before I could see this as manipulation, and not as something a friend would ask of another friend (and said friend would do).

If Lindsay wasn't trying to manipulate Danny, she could have asked him to take the hard task, rather than playing on his emotions--and his feelings for her--by making him feel bad about giving her the hard task by saying, "Oh, sure, give Lindsay all the jobs no one wants" or whatever it was she said. Had she asked him as an adult, I would have had some respect for her. But she didn't--she played on his emotions in a way that, given he'd just confessed to having feelings for her two episodes ago, was pretty much just downright cruel.

 

[Maya316]

Lol, thanks for all the welcomes! :thumbsup:

I actually don't think it will be Hawkes at all. He seemed the most calm when they were doing that cliffhanger video interviews (anyone know what i'm talking about?) He started joking about how Hawkes needed a girlfriend. Silly Hill. :lol: Everyone else (Carmine and Eddie especially were much more concerned) Maybe i'm reading too much into this, but that's me. Oh jeez, it could be anyone. Either way, it better be "life-changing" as they have promised.

Curious here. Did the producers actually say that one of the team would be leaving (and I mean, after Pay Up)? Or did they just say that what happens would be life-changing? Because I know the possibility that Mac or Stella might leave the show is basically zero, but if it's one of them injured, that might be grounds for one of the others (Danny, Lindsay, Hawkes) being promoted to CSI Level 2. In which case something could happen like on Vegas, where the team was periodically split into two (Catherine, Nick, and Warrick vs Greg, Sara, and Grissom). Which would also be life-changing, and would be another good reason to bring in a new character.

Danny has constantly gone out of his way to go to her when he's sensed something off with her--I don't think it's unreasonable for him to expect her to reciprocate. He does tend to go to Flack when he's in distress, but then Flack is constantly there for him, so much so that Lindsay called Flack in "All in the Family" when Danny went missing.

I'll agree with that, though I think given the number of times Lindsay's fobbed him off with a fake "I'm fine" would have sent up signals that she wasn't great with personal problems long before "Child's Play" for Danny. But yeah, totally not getting into my problems with D/L. Just in general, they need a lot of work.

To some extent, but he also had his own storylines with his mentor in season one, and then his dilemma over the log book in season three. A lot of who Flack is is tied in with his sense of integrity and loyalty, so I don't think those episodes can be easily dismissed. I also think Flack's snark and wit say a lot about who he is, and that's peppered throughout all of the episodes.

Well yeah, I still agree that Flack's character presence is felt through all those seasons. My point was more that it was felt even with minimal, episode-long storylines. He didn't need a storyline to give his character presence, any more than Hawkes has ever needed storylines to make us feel his presence. In the same way, I believe Lindsay makes us feel her presence in each episode she's in (or rather, stronger in S2 and S4) even though she hasn't had an actual storyline since S3. If she didn't, it wouldn't irritate so many that Anna Belknap is still on the show. I don't think character presence can be judged in terms of storylines.

Maybe, but it's hard to reconcile "cute" and "sweet" and "enthusiastic" with "cold." I don't think Lindsay was originally intended to be a cold character--the scenes where she defended herself as a country girl were supposed to come off as "tough" and "stronger than she looks" maybe. The coldness is very off-putting in the character.

Feel a little embarrassed here, but it was the only way I was able to excuse Lindsay's "cuteness" and "sweetness" and "enthusiasm" - I just figured that no one can actually be that peppy, all the time, with nothing else going on underneath. It made more sense to me that she'd be friendly and smiling on the surface while still holding everybody at a distance. A defense mechanism of sorts, I suppose, to keep people from questioning too deeply.

Sure, she's fine when she's reciting facts. But actors need to be able to do a little more than that, even in a crime drama. Look how A.J. took straightforward lab data lines and added an underlying nervousness to them to create a character. Or the way Danny bounces when he's excited or nervous. Or the zest with which Flack's lines are delivered. That's acting. It doesn't have to be in the big emotional storylines--it's about creating a fully realized, fleshed out character. Anna hasn't done that.

...I guess I am looking at things from a different perspective, because I'd just figured that the whole never-reaching-back, keeping-people-at-a-distance was Lindsay's thing, like nervousness is Adam's and nervous energy is Danny's. I see a believable character there.

If Lindsay wasn't trying to manipulate Danny, she could have asked him to take the hard task, rather than playing on his emotions--and his feelings for her--by making him feel bad about giving her the hard task by saying, "Oh, sure, give Lindsay all the jobs no one wants" or whatever it was she said. Had she asked him as an adult, I would have had some respect for her. But she didn't--she played on his emotions in a way that, given he'd just confessed to having feelings for her two episodes ago, was pretty much just downright cruel.

Didn't Danny immediately ask "What's the matter with you?" kind of harshly right after she said that? When you mentioned playing on Danny's feelings, I didn't think that was the quote you meant. I thought you were referring to the part where she flat-out tells him "I need you to take this" - which I guess could be seen as manipulative if you're looking from the angle that Danny had feelings for Lindsay at that point. (I still can't see it as any more than a crush, myself, and thus can't see it as any worse than asking a favour from a friend.)

 

[Top41]

after[/I] Pay Up)? Or did they just say that what happens would be life-changing? Because I know the possibility that Mac or Stella might leave the show is basically zero, but if it's one of them injured, that might be grounds for one of the others (Danny, Lindsay, Hawkes) being promoted to CSI Level 2. In which case something could happen like on Vegas, where the team was periodically split into two (Catherine, Nick, and Warrick vs Greg, Sara, and Grissom). Which would also be life-changing, and would be another good reason to bring in a new character.

I think it's the budget issues that make people assume someone is leaving. It is odd that a series reg would be added after someone was lost for budget reasons. That's what makes me think someone might be dying/leaving. Maybe not, though if that's the case, Emmanuelle sure has reason to be pissed. :lol:

I'll agree with that, though I think given the number of times Lindsay's fobbed him off with a fake "I'm fine" would have sent up signals that she wasn't great with personal problems long before "Child's Play" for Danny. But yeah, totally not getting into my problems with D/L. Just in general, they need a lot of work.

Yeah, they do, and their communication issues are at the heart of what makes them not work as a couple. Chemistry might be in the eye of the beholder, but what is obvious is that these two don't really communicate well, and never have. Still, her not being good with emotional issues isn't really an excuse for her not to make an effort to support the person she supposedly loves.

Well yeah, I still agree that Flack's character presence is felt through all those seasons. My point was more that it was felt even with minimal, episode-long storylines. He didn't need a storyline to give his character presence, any more than Hawkes has ever needed storylines to make us feel his presence. In the same way, I believe Lindsay makes us feel her presence in each episode she's in (or rather, stronger in S2 and S4) even though she hasn't had an actual storyline since S3. If she didn't, it wouldn't irritate so many that Anna Belknap is still on the show. I don't think character presence can be judged in terms of storylines.

Oh, she's there alright--but whether that's a good thing or not is up for debate. I actually found her less annoying this season, perhaps because she largely faded into the background. Same with season four, save for her particularly grating behavior towards Danny after she deemed he was pushing her away and decided to punish him for it.

Feel a little embarrassed here, but it was the only way I was able to excuse Lindsay's "cuteness" and "sweetness" and "enthusiasm" - I just figured that no one can actually be that peppy, all the time, with nothing else going on underneath. It made more sense to me that she'd be friendly and smiling on the surface while still holding everybody at a distance. A defense mechanism of sorts, I suppose, to keep people from questioning too deeply.

But see, she wasn't really all that peppy to begin with. A little here and there in season two and whenever she does experiments on Mac, but mostly she's been brittle, cold, and abrasive.

...I guess I am looking at things from a different perspective, because I'd just figured that the whole never-reaching-back, keeping-people-at-a-distance was Lindsay's thing, like nervousness is Adam's and nervous energy is Danny's. I see a believable character there.

Eh, it's not really a character trait we see on a weekly basis, though. It's also not a particularly likable trait, either. It doesn't inform the character at every turn, the way Adam's nervousness and Danny's energy do.

Didn't Danny immediately ask "What's the matter with you?" kind of harshly right after she said that? When you mentioned playing on Danny's feelings, I didn't think that was the quote you meant. I thought you were referring to the part where she flat-out tells him "I need you to take this" - which I guess could be seen as manipulative if you're looking from the angle that Danny had feelings for Lindsay at that point. (I still can't see it as any more than a crush, myself, and thus can't see it as any worse than asking a favour from a friend.)

No, I thought the way she went about it was completely immature with the whining quote about getting all the jobs no one else wants. That led Danny to ask the question, and then to her to tell him she needed him to take the unpleasant duty, with no explanation.

As for him having a crush...I agree that it was hard to tell where they each stood at that point. In season two, it seemed like she had a crush on him, and he was oblivious until later in the season, when he started to respond to her interest in him. But it's hard to ignore that two episodes prior, he'd told her he had feelings for her. So in that context, the way she went about things in "Oedipus Hex" felt manipulative.

 

[Maya316]

Yeah, they do, and their communication issues are at the heart of what makes them not work as a couple. Chemistry might be in the eye of the beholder, but what is obvious is that these two don't really communicate well, and never have. Still, her not being good with emotional issues isn't really an excuse for her not to make an effort to support the person she supposedly loves.

Oh they communicate fine - just not when it's important. They need so much work. But yeah, she should've made more effort, though for the record I think she would've done okay had he bothered going to her for the support. But I get how it'd probably be easier to talk to Flack.

Oh, she's there alright--but whether that's a good thing or not is up for debate. I actually found her less annoying this season, perhaps because she largely faded into the background. Same with season four, save for her particularly grating behavior towards Danny after she deemed he was pushing her away and decided to punish him for it.

Lol, it'll be up for debate forever. Lindsay's always been a background character, perky S2 or perky-againS4 notwithstanding. Though I will admit I shared your frustration with the D/L epidemic of the latter half of S4, I also have to admit my frustration has more to do with the fact that it can even be perceived as punishing Danny. He was sleeping with Rikki at that point, why not stick with that, why the sudden interest in Lindsay again? I know Lindsay said she loved him, but they also implied she'd get over it. So...gah.

But see, she wasn't really all that peppy to begin with. A little here and there in season two and whenever she does experiments on Mac, but mostly she's been brittle, cold, and abrasive.

Difference of opinion, I guess. The first episode I saw Lindsay in wasn't Zoo York, it was Cool Hunter, and she was so upbeat in the episode I wanted to smack her. I think I might've been just glad to see the coldness.

Eh, it's not really a character trait we see on a weekly basis, though. It's also not a particularly likable trait, either. It doesn't inform the character at every turn, the way Adam's nervousness and Danny's energy do.

I don't think it has to be a likable trait, though, does it, so longs as it gives the character their edge? I mean because what`s likeable is so subjective, and there`s no point in trying to please everyone. I disagree that the trait necessarily has to define the character's every move. We all know Adam is nervous, but he's not nervous every second that he's onscreen. And Danny is perfectly capable of going over evidence or presenting a point without twitching with energy all the time, although we do, inevitably, get reminded of that energy. Likewise, we are constantly reminded of Lindsay`s aloofness despite her surface cheerfulness.

 

[CSI Cupcake]

Good points about Anna and the pregnancies. She mentioned in an interview I read how hard it was to act perky and not pregnant while in real life she was pregnant. I think it really affected how she played the character.

And therein lies the inherent problem with Anna Belknap. She has a problem acting something other than what she is, which is kind of a problem for someone who is supposed to be an actress. Countless other actresses, like Mariska Hargitay and I think Melina herself, have had to act while pregnant and have somehow managed to pull it off. I didn't even realize Chyler Leigh on Grey's Anatomy was pregnant this season until I read about her giving birth to her baby a week or so ago. It's a little tiring to hear Anna go on and on about how hard it is for her to do her job when so many others do the same--and do it well.

It worked to her advantage in S5 when they decided to write in the baby and I think it showed a lot in how comfortable she was in the character of Lindsay.

To me it showed how comfortable Anna was with material that challenged her the least as an actress. She had to play a pregnant woman...while she was pregnant. All the meaty emotional stuff was given to Carmine--very wisely so--and when Lindsay did have one scene of contemplation (the chemicals), Anna flubbed it.

I really really hate getting out on a limb and handing you a saw. Can I have it back please so I can find a better limb to stand on? I realize that Anna is as much the problem to you as the character of Lindsay. The only thing I will say is that I think Anna handled being pregnant much better the second time around. (Which is what I should have said in the first place) She looked swollen and puffy and miserable in Season 3 toward the end, which is when she had all the emotional scenes to do and, having gone through pregnancy twice, I can't imagine how difficult it must have been to maintain character while dealing with that. That isn't an arguement...just an observation and you're right. Other women have handled it better.

Hill is very, very gung-ho about the show and being on the show and developing Hawkes. I just don't see him being written out, or wanting to leave. It would suck royally if they fired him, and I just don't really see that happening.

I guess we'll find out since this is all speculation anyway. They could pull a fast one on us and not get rid of anyone. I think we all have our favorites that we want to save and characters that we could do without. I just think that Hawkes is an at-risk character. Nothing personal against Hill in the least. As excited and committed as he is, as they all are, the execs are going to do what they think is best for the show and the bottom-line. All charactes are chess pieces, sadly enough and we can't do a thing about it.

Danny has constantly gone out of his way to go to her when he's sensed something off with her--I don't think it's unreasonable for him to expect her to reciprocate. He does tend to go to Flack when he's in distress, but then Flack is constantly there for him, so much so that Lindsay called Flack in "All in the Family" when Danny went missing.

You have mentioned this before, saying that Lindsay passed him off to Flack instead of helping him herself. I don't know if I posted this before or tried and the computer ate it, but I see those scenes from a totally opposite viewpoint. Lindsay certainly did her share for Danny. She talked to Flack about not being able to reach Danny and he offered to go by the apartment while Lindsay volunteered to lie to Mac to cover for Danny, and when Flack came by the lab with the program from Ruben's funeral service she did some sort of test right there in the lab where it could be questioned by anyone coming in (Mac or Stella) which would have been hard to explain seeing how he was supposed to be sick with the flue and they werent working that case (in the show) at that time. I don't see that as passing him off to someone else. She couldn't very well leave the lab herself and go looking for him. They were already down one person because he wasn't there. What would you have had her do instead? I guess she could have gone to Mac or Stella but then we wouldn't have seen any good Flack and Danny scenes.

Yeah, I guess it could be seen as manipulative. I think I'd have to believe that Lindsay knew Danny felt something serious for her, though, before I could believe she intentionally manipulated him. Or rather, I'd have to believe Danny actually did feel something important for her before I could see this as manipulation, and not as something a friend would ask of another friend (and said friend would do).

If Lindsay wasn't trying to manipulate Danny, she could have asked him to take the hard task, rather than playing on his emotions--and his feelings for her--by making him feel bad about giving her the hard task by saying, "Oh, sure, give Lindsay all the jobs no one wants" or whatever it was she said. Had she asked him as an adult, I would have had some respect for her. But she didn't--she played on his emotions in a way that, given he'd just confessed to having feelings for her two episodes ago, was pretty much just downright cruel.

She did say that about getting all the jobs no one wants. And he did ask what was the matter with her. She did give him an explanation. She told him that she didn't deal well giving moms bad news...that she could give bad news to dads all day long but not moms. I didn't get the impression that Danny understood it, but he had already told her to let him know if she needed anything from him, and she did. So she asked and he helped.

Check it out...I got those quote thingies to work.

 

[Top41]

Oh they communicate fine - just not when it's important. But yeah, she should've made more effort, though for the record I think she would've done okay had he bothered going to her for the support. But I get how it'd probably be easier to talk to Flack.

Agreed--never when it's important. And to me, that's a fatal flaw in a relationship. If you can't talk about the important stuff, what can you talk about? I think she might have tried to help Danny if he'd gone to her, but when someone is hurting--especially someone as emotionally vulnerable as Danny--it helps to have someone else do the reaching out. Flack has done that before (he certainly did in "All in the Family"), and has obviously built up a level of trust with Danny to the point that Danny feels comfortable turning to him and reaching out to him for support.

Lol, it'll be up for debate forever. Lindsay's always been a background character, perky S2 or perky-againS4 notwithstanding. Though I will admit I shared your frustration with the D/L epidemic of the latter half of S4, I also have to admit my frustration has more to do with the fact that it can even be perceived as punishing Danny. He was sleeping with Rikki at that point, why not stick with that, why the sudden interest in Lindsay again? I know Lindsay said she loved him, but they also implied she'd get over it. So...gah.

I for one didn't buy for a minute that she actually believed she would "get over it"--I felt like that was said to hurt Danny. If she'd known about Rikki, I would have had a lot more sympathy for her, but she didn't. She just saw him pulling away--after she made no effort to reach out to him--and went on the offensive.

Difference of opinion, I guess. The first episode I saw Lindsay in wasn't Zoo York, it was Cool Hunter, and she was so upbeat in the episode I wanted to smack her. I think I might've been just glad to see the coldness.

Oh, I actually liked her in "Cool Hunter"! And "Stuck on You." I liked the peppiness mixed with the determination--I felt she was a much more appealing character back then. Of course, she's changed so many times, which is why I think it was difficult to really get a handle on her.

I don't think it has to be a likable trait, though, does it, so longs as it gives the character their edge? I disagree that the trait necessarily has to define the character's every move. I mean, we all know Adam is nervous, but he's not nervous every second that he's onscreen, right? And Danny is perfectly capable of going over evidence or presenting a point without twitching with energy all the time, although we do, inevitably, get reminded of that energy. Likewise, we are constantly reminded of Lindsay`s aloofness despite her surface cheerfulness.

Aloofness is a good way to describe it--seen from that point of view, yeah, I can see where you're coming from. It's transient though--sometimes she's aloof, and sometimes she's acting all chummy with Mac and putting stuff on his face. Her inconsistency is one of the things I think people are bothered by.

I really really hate getting out on a limb and handing you a saw. Can I have it back please so I can find a better limb to stand on?

LOL--sorry! For what it's worth, I'm really enjoying debating with both you and Maya.

I realize that Anna is as much the problem to you as the character of Lindsay. The only thing I will say is that I think Anna handled being pregnant much better the second time around. (Which is what I should have said in the first place) She looked swollen and puffy and miserable in Season 3 toward the end, which is when she had all the emotional scenes to do and, having gone through pregnancy twice, I can't imagine how difficult it must have been to maintain character while dealing with that. That isn't an arguement...just an observation and you're right. Other women have handled it better.

I guess it's hard for me to feel sorry for Anna. She's got it made. Plum job on a hit show, maternity leave every other year, and phoned in performances. There just doesn't seem to be any effort or depth to her performances, which can be frustrating to watch, especially when the others are clearly giving it their all.

I guess we'll find out since this is all speculation anyway. They could pull a fast one on us and not get rid of anyone. I think we all have our favorites that we want to save and characters that we could do without. I just think that Hawkes is an at-risk character. Nothing personal against Hill in the least. As excited and committed as he is, as they all are, the execs are going to do what they think is best for the show and the bottom-line. All charactes are chess pieces, sadly enough and we can't do a thing about it.

Agreed, and until spoilers start coming out, we really don't have much to go on. They could be keeping everyone, or they could be getting rid of someone. It makes for interesting speculation at the very least.

You have mentioned this before, saying that Lindsay passed him off to Flack instead of helping him herself. I don't know if I posted this before or tried and the computer ate it, but I see those scenes from a totally opposite viewpoint. Lindsay certainly did her share for Danny. She talked to Flack about not being able to reach Danny and he offered to go by the apartment while Lindsay volunteered to lie to Mac to cover for Danny, and when Flack came by the lab with the program from Ruben's funeral service she did some sort of test right there in the lab where it could be questioned by anyone coming in (Mac or Stella) which would have been hard to explain seeing how he was supposed to be sick with the flue and they werent working that case (in the show) at that time. I don't see that as passing him off to someone else. She couldn't very well leave the lab herself and go looking for him. They were already down one person because he wasn't there. What would you have had her do instead? I guess she could have gone to Mac or Stella but then we wouldn't have seen any good Flack and Danny scenes.

Oh, I agree that she went out on a limb for Danny, but she did it without having to deal with him emotionally. She left that to Flack. To be fair, Flack does it well and obviously likes riding to Danny's rescue (I've never seen him as fired up as he was in that episode!), but it also was Lindsay taking the easy way out and not dealing with her boyfriend's messy feelings. I'm not so much faulting her for that as I am observing a pattern.

She did say that about getting all the jobs no one wants. And he did ask what was the matter with her. She did give him an explanation. She told him that she didn't deal well giving moms bad news...that she could give bad news to dads all day long but not moms. I didn't get the impression that Danny understood it, but he had already told her to let him know if she needed anything from him, and she did. So she asked and he helped.

It was her initial outburst that bothered me. She immediately put him on the defensive by trying to make him feel bad for what, asking her to do her job? That seemed patently unfair.

Check it out...I got those quote thingies to work.

Very nice!

 

[Maya316]

For what it's worth, I'm really enjoying debating with both you and Maya.

Yes! :luvlove: For what it`s worth, this is the most online fun I`ve had in...years, I think.

I for one didn't buy for a minute that she actually believed she would "get over it"--I felt like that was said to hurt Danny. If she'd known about Rikki, I would have had a lot more sympathy for her, but she didn't. She just saw him pulling away--after she made no effort to reach out to him--and went on the offensive.

Well, I didn`t see Danny being in love with her at that point, so I can`t see how her telling him she`d get over him should`ve hurt him. But I`ve always felt that she did know about Rikki. Danny implied she did during The Box. Furthermore, she said ``Don`t mistake this for jealousy`` at one point during her speech, and who else could she have been referring to, other than Rikki? She wouldn`t have had a reason to be jealous of anyone else. (maybe Flack, because Danny might`ve talked to him - but she`s the one who sent Flack after him, so I`m otherwise lost.)

Oh, I actually liked her in "Cool Hunter"! And "Stuck on You." I liked the peppiness mixed with the determination--I felt she was a much more appealing character back then. Of course, she's changed so many times, which is why I think it was difficult to really get a handle on her.

Oh... I have to say Stuck on You is another episode I found Lindsay annoying in, first time I watched it. The peppiness mixed with determination - I like them in Lindsay when I see them now, but back then my Mary-Sue alarms wouldn`t stop screaming. I can see how those would be appealing character traits, but if they`re the only things I know about a character, the character quickly becomes an irritant.

 

[CSI Cupcake]

I always enjoy the back and forth of debate on this forum. As for the Danny/Lindsay/Rikki thing...well:

I saw Lindsay go after Danny in the morgue in Child's Play after he waved her off and left. She talked with Mac and then followed in Danny's path out of the room. That tells me she at least attempted to be there for him. Whether or not he allowed it is another thing.

As said previously, she did what she could while at work and not able to contact him in All in the Family with working through Flack. Perhaps because she knew if he wouldn't let her help that he would accept help from Flack. If he rejected her help in the first place, she didn't have to care at all and could have washed her hands of everything at that point.

I saw Danny as feeling completely worthless after Ruben died. He blamed himself for it and couldn't see how anyone would find him worthy of anything, let alone love him. And for the record, I don't think his sleeping with Rikki had anything to do with love or even lust. It was pain, pure and simple and he felt responsible for her pain and, for some reason, thought that making her feel good would make him feel better. Human touch is a healing thing. I think he went way too far, but this is Danny we're talking about and he always goes overboard.

Either that or the writers had too much time to think about it during the strike.

Personally I thought she was jealous of the fact that he wouldn't let her help but would let other people.

Therefore, it does make sense for her to decide that she has to let go of the love she feels if he won't let her help him and has completely shut her out. I can't blame her for saying it to him. He needed to know at that point she still found him worth loving and he needed to hear it. The shocked look on his face said to me that he was astounded that she found anything in him worth the effort. Not that she thought of herself as his girlfriend when he didn't feel the same way. Her saying she had to find a way to let it go was telling him that he had a choice to make. He could continue on the path he was on and lose more than he thought or he could choose to let her in. Sometimes, when someone has sunk that deep into despair it takes a challenge like that to jar them into conciousness again. He did insinuate in The Box that she figured out he was getting and taking comfort elsewhere and she may have realized that. That could also be the reason for her jealousy, just the fact that he turned to anyone else when she wanted to be there for him.

The only mis-step I saw in her actions was the birthday scene (can't remember the episode). I hated that she was so (can I say p*&&% on here) about the birthday. Good lord, there were so many bigger issues at hand than the fact that he missed her birthday. She was way off base there and I will freely admit that it wasn't one of Lindsay's better moments.

 

[CdfSjaI]

I actually don't think it will be Hawkes at all. He seemed the most calm when they were doing that cliffhanger video interviews (anyone know what i'm talking about?) He started joking about how Hawkes needed a girlfriend. Silly Hill. :lol: Everyone else (Carmine and Eddie especially were much more concerned) Maybe i'm reading too much into this, but that's me. Oh jeez, it could be anyone. Either way, it better be "life-changing" as they have promised.

Curious here. Did the producers actually say that one of the team would be leaving (and I mean, after Pay Up)? Or did they just say that what happens would be life-changing? Because I know the possibility that Mac or Stella might leave the show is basically zero, but if it's one of them injured, that might be grounds for one of the others (Danny, Lindsay, Hawkes) being promoted to CSI Level 2. In which case something could happen like on Vegas, where the team was periodically split into two (Catherine, Nick, and Warrick vs Greg, Sara, and Grissom). Which would also be life-changing, and would be another good reason to bring in a new character.

The spoilers we received for the season finale quite a while back did mention the life-changing/threatening event for another member of the team. And CBS posted this along with a video where the cast talks about someone leaving the show, and its quite annoying because they never specify if they are talking about the cliffhanger or the first death (Angell); this is what CBS had on the description:

This season's season finale leaves one of the team dead. We don't find out who it is until next Fall.
And here is the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThVrEKRUIcs&feature=channel_page


Now that I see it again, this video is definitely ONLY about the cliffhanger, at times it does seems like they are talking about someone dying because of the cliffhanger and then sometimes you just can't really tell if they were talking about not knowing who was dying in the beginning. So confusing! But they guys add the end does say "If you're wondering who lives and who dies, you'll have to wait until the fall premiere to find out."

It's also a possibility that CBS messed up the FIRST description I posted above. They did switch Anna's name for Lindsay's when the press release came out for "Greater Good." That still makes me :lol: :lol: I don't think they would mess up on the video though.

The video also says that the cast members don't know who it is either but I mean c'mon, you would know if your job was in jeopardy, they can't just put EVERYONE's job on hold until they decide in june/july who it is.

Is there a time maching were we can make september come faster??!

 

[CSI Cupcake]

I actually don't think it will be Hawkes at all. He seemed the most calm when they were doing that cliffhanger video interviews (anyone know what i'm talking about?) He started joking about how Hawkes needed a girlfriend. Silly Hill. :lol: Everyone else (Carmine and Eddie especially were much more concerned) Maybe i'm reading too much into this, but that's me. Oh jeez, it could be anyone. Either way, it better be "life-changing" as they have promised.

Curious here. Did the producers actually say that one of the team would be leaving (and I mean, after Pay Up)? Or did they just say that what happens would be life-changing? Because I know the possibility that Mac or Stella might leave the show is basically zero, but if it's one of them injured, that might be grounds for one of the others (Danny, Lindsay, Hawkes) being promoted to CSI Level 2. In which case something could happen like on Vegas, where the team was periodically split into two (Catherine, Nick, and Warrick vs Greg, Sara, and Grissom). Which would also be life-changing, and would be another good reason to bring in a new character.

The spoilers we received for the season finale quite a while back did mention the life-changing/threatening event for another member of the team. And CBS posted this along with a video where the cast talks about someone leaving the show, and its quite annoying because they never specify if they are talking about the cliffhanger or the first death (Angell); this is what CBS had on the description:

This season's season finale leaves one of the team dead. We don't find out who it is until next Fall.
And here is the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThVrEKRUIcs&feature=channel_page


The video seems to be ONLY about the cliffhanger, so at times it seems like they are talking about someone leaving then and then sometimes you just can't really tell if they were talking about not knowing who was dying in the beginning. So confusing!

It's also a possibility that CBS messed up the description I posted above. They did switch Anna's name for Lindsay's when the press release came out for "Greater Good" That still makes me:lol:

The video also says that the cast members don't know who it is either but I mean c'mon, you would know if your job was in jeopardy, they can't just put EVERYONE's job on hold until they decide in june/july who it is.

Is there a time maching were we can make september come faster??!

If there is a time machine I'm all for using it. I don't like these kinds of surprises when it comes to my TV shows.

As for the splitting of the team into two separate teams and promoting someone to CSI 2 the thought had occurred to me but I really didn't give it much thought because I have been under the impression that one of the CSI's would die in the beginning of S6. If they promoted Danny, as the one that has been there the longest that would be great. Finally, they could show growth in one of their characters and since Danny has settled down some it would be believable. Or it could be Hawkes which would give him a great opportunity to have a story line of his own. The team has basically been in the same positions for, what, 4 years now with no promotions or anything. Maybe it's time.

 

[Top41]

I had forgotten about that little press blurb of CBS's. Interesting...but I'm still not sure it can be taken at face value. It could be just to drum up interest in the cliffhanger and the season six premiere. It certainly has worked, though! :lol:

Yes! :luvlove: For what it`s worth, this is the most online fun I`ve had in...years, I think.

Me, too. I'm enjoying the discussion very much!

Well, I didn`t see Danny being in love with her at that point, so I can`t see how her telling him she`d get over him should`ve hurt him.

I don't think Danny was in love at that point either, but Danny is a very reactive character. He's easily hurt and cares very much about what people think about him--remember how upset he got in "On the Job" when Mac told him people had told him not to hire Danny? I think Danny's whole relationship with Lindsay has been largely reactive--her interest in him sparked his interest in her, and then her telling him she loved him similarly caused a reaction in him. Danny reacts to people desiring him--it's what he did with Rikki, and I think the same is true of Lindsay. So I do think it was intended to hurt him because let's face it, everyone knows Danny is sensitive (understatement of the year, lol).

But I`ve always felt that she did know about Rikki. Danny implied she did during The Box.

I always thought Danny was a little off base there. Nothing has ever been said or implied by Lindsay that she did.

Furthermore, she said ``Don`t mistake this for jealousy`` at one point during her speech, and who else could she have been referring to, other than Rikki? She wouldn`t have had a reason to be jealous of anyone else. (maybe Flack, because Danny might`ve talked to him - but she`s the one who sent Flack after him, so I`m otherwise lost.)

I've only seen the episode once, but didn't she say "jealous, clingy girlfriend" or something to that effect? I always thought she was telling him not to stereotype or dismiss her rather than that she knew he was sleeping with someone else. If she knew or even suspected about Rikki, why wouldn't she say that directly? She accused him of shutting her out, which is different than hooking up with someone else.

Oh... I have to say Stuck on You is another episode I found Lindsay annoying in, first time I watched it. The peppiness mixed with determination - I like them in Lindsay when I see them now, but back then my Mary-Sue alarms wouldn`t stop screaming. I can see how those would be appealing character traits, but if they`re the only things I know about a character, the character quickly becomes an irritant.

I can see that--and I know some were put off by her investigating Mac's personal life, too. I kind of saw her doing it to impress Danny, and found it somewhat endearing, in the same way I thought it was kind of cute that she made an excuse to have him carry her in "Cool Hunter" despite the fact that Mac was essentially the same height/weight. :lol: I also liked her inventive thinking, and the fact that she brought a different perspective in. I can see how that might be somewhat Mary Sue-ish...but I did find it more appealing than her bratty behavior in season three.

I always enjoy the back and forth of debate on this forum. As for the Danny/Lindsay/Rikki thing...well:

I saw Lindsay go after Danny in the morgue in Child's Play after he waved her off and left. She talked with Mac and then followed in Danny's path out of the room. That tells me she at least attempted to be there for him. Whether or not he allowed it is another thing.

I don't think he waved her off so much as was in the process of running out when she walked in and just didn't stop. She went in his direction, but long enough after he'd left that he was probably long gone. It's hard to work with what didn't happen on screen, so I guess we'll never know definitively if she went after him or caught up with him.

As said previously, she did what she could while at work and not able to contact him in All in the Family with working through Flack. Perhaps because she knew if he wouldn't let her help that he would accept help from Flack. If he rejected her help in the first place, she didn't have to care at all and could have washed her hands of everything at that point.

True, and I do think that she loves Danny in her own way...but not enough to really try to deal with him emotionally. I think he's a cipher to her in that regard, and rather than try to figure him out or really try to connect with him emotionally, she takes the easy way out and sends Flack after him. Or at least she did in that instance.

I saw Danny as feeling completely worthless after Ruben died. He blamed himself for it and couldn't see how anyone would find him worthy of anything, let alone love him. And for the record, I don't think his sleeping with Rikki had anything to do with love or even lust. It was pain, pure and simple and he felt responsible for her pain and, for some reason, thought that making her feel good would make it better. Human touch is a healing thing. I think he went way too far, but this is Danny we're talking about and he always goes overboard.

I feel the same actually. I think Danny wanted to make Rikki feel better, and she put the moves on him and he gave in, thinking giving her what she wanted would make them both feel better. Danny's sexuality is a big part of his character, and I think that he saw it as the one thing he could use to assuage Rikki's pain. Even Lindsay has reacted to him that way--the first thing she did the minute the Katums trial was over was move to kiss Danny.

Personally I thought she was jealous of the fact that he wouldn't let her help but would let other people.

Entirely possible, and I've always sensed an undercurrent of rivalry for Danny between Flack and Lindsay. Flack made that crack about how Danny should "piss Lindsay off more often" in "Personal Foul," and Lindsay would have to be blind not to know Flack is the one Danny turns to when he's in need.

Therefore, it does make sense for her to decide that she has to let go of the love she feels if he won't let her help him and has completely shut her out. I can't blame her for saying it to him.

I think at that point, it was a cruel thing to say. I don't think she knew about Rikki, so why not say to him, "I feel like I've done everything I can to reach out to you and you're shutting me out. And I can't try anymore." That would have been much kinder and more reasonable...except the problem is that we never really saw her reaching out to him in the first place.

He needed to know at that point she still found him worth loving and he needed to hear it. The shocked look on his face said to me that he was astounded that she found anything in him worth the effort. Not that she thought of herself as his girlfriend when he didn't feel the same way. Her saying she had to find a way to let it go was telling him that he had a choice to make. He could continue on the path he was on and lose more than he thought or he could choose to let her in. Sometimes, when someone has sunk that deep into despair it takes a challenge like that to jar them into conciousness again.

That's an interesting way of looking at it, and if she hadn't pushed him away for the next three episodes, I'd actually commend her for taking that route. But I don't think it was about him--it was about her not getting what she wanted from him. And given what he'd just gone through, that was a selfish perspective to take.

He did insinuate in The Box that she figured out he was getting and taking comfort elsewhere and she may have realized that. That could also be the reason for her jealousy, just the fact that he turned to anyone else when she wanted to be there for him.

I still think he was off base on that, but if we're supposed to believe that, I wish the writers had given us some clue from her. It would have made her position a lot more sympathetic and understandable.

The only mis-step I saw in her actions was the birthday scene (can't remember the episode). I hated that she was so (can I say p*&&% on here) about the birthday. Good lord, there were so many bigger issues at hand than the fact that he missed her birthday. She was way off base there and I will freely admit that it wasn't one of Lindsay's better moments.

Yeah, that was a truly terrible and self-involved moment for the character.

 

[Cyn-B-Demented]

This season's season finale leaves one of the team dead. We don't find out who it is until next Fall.
And here is the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThVrEKRUIcs&feature=channel_page


Now that I see it again, this video is definitely ONLY about the cliffhanger, at times it does seems like they are talking about someone dying because of the cliffhanger and then sometimes you just can't really tell if they were talking about not knowing who was dying in the beginning. So confusing! But they guys add the end does say "If you're wondering who lives and who dies, you'll have to wait until the fall premiere to find out."

I didn't see the videos!!! I tried your link but YouTube tells me it is not available in my country :angryrazz: I. Must. Find.

The video also says that the cast members don't know who it is either but I mean c'mon, you would know if your job was in jeopardy, they can't just put EVERYONE's job on hold until they decide in june/july who it is.

My thought exactly and that's why I'm not buying it. Some people are already in the known about it (logically IMO) and they're damn good at keeping their mouth shut! At the same time, it would highly suck to ruin the punch for everyone kinda like the HP leak on the Internetz.

If there is a time machine I'm all for using it. I don't like these kinds of surprises when it comes to my TV shows.

I hear you, sister! :beer:

...Finally, they could show growth in one of their characters and since Danny has settled down some it would be believable. Or it could be Hawkes which would give him a great opportunity to have a story line of his own. The team has basically been in the same positions for, what, 4 years now with no promotions or anything. Maybe it's time.

The show is indeed in great desperation for a progress/evolution/freshness within their characters, either in general or specifically to one. Do they think they can achieve that by bringing a new investigator?! But I have noticed that things have stalled too, yeah. Maybe that could explain why Carmine seems blasé and felt the need to take off his glasses to make his character feel fresh for him? In the first seasons, I had the impression the writers were trying to give every one a story line on a sort of rotation basis? Now it seems that's pretty much gone!!! I was dying to get Hawkes/Adam/Sid development for S5 but they left me on my appetite... I thought we were getting there with Hawkes in Yarhzeit, correct me if I'm wrong, when he talked about his uncle. There was also this story about his girlfriend being rape in one episode... can't remember what's the title...

And I don't know if it's due to the actors schedule and whatnot but they need to share the screen-time? I mean, I feel like I've been seing the same faces over and over again this past season because we only got the D/L story line, which was major considering the baby situation and they got a lot of fans that were dreaming about it, and only some good moments with the other characters. I'd like another episode that puts the character in the "spotlight" like this episode when Hawkes was being suspected of a crime! I thought it was such a good episode even though the viewers just KNEW he couldn't have done it... it was a good story nonetheless. So, as far as getting more Hawkes, he could be the one helping Flack with his grief. I don't know if it was intentional from Harper but Hawkes seems spiritual/religious (and if it was not intentional, I think it's amazing that Harper's spirituality oozes out of him that much lol) and being an ME you kinda have more perspectives about life and death. Or that might just be my opinion about MEs lol I've never talked to one in real life so all I got is what TV offers me, which is often time romanced for the sake of the show...

So... yeah!!! :lol: Sorry for my babblings! I can't wait for September to kick-in with S6. And hope they were right by bringing this new investigator in. Still no name about who will play her? I'm very curious about that lol