CSI:NY Spoiler Discussion - Bring on Season 6!

Easy warmth is nice, and I agree it says a lot that Catherine went to Sara in that episode (think it might've been season 7). But it still looks as though they were just written to be friendly-ish coworkers, and the actors extrapolate on that. I figured Catherine went to Sara because she'd generally be more empathetic than any of the guys, and Sara has a thing about rape cases. Scenes like the one in the hospital and the phone-call to Montana make it look like the CSINY writers purposely Lindsay and Stella to be friends beyond work, and this is something consistent through the show.

I totally agree. If Danny is shot in the diner, maybe we'll see work done on Lindsay's character as they deal with it. I do feel there's a lot of work to be done on both sides - Danny might actually have to, you know, go to Lindsay if he expects her to help, but then Lindsay might have to get over the feeling that she should wait until Danny comes to her, and go to him instead. Gah.

Flack has been fleshed out through the show in preparation for S5, I agree, but in all those instances he was doing exactly what you mentioned Lindsay does - reacting to their storylines (Mac's/Danny's/Stella's). That's how a lot of the other characters were also fleshed out.

Personal opinion again, but I've always figured that Lindsay was supposed to be a bit cold in general. Always smiling, still holding people off at arm's length. Isn't that what defined the whole thing about her snapping at Danny in Zoo York and that cop who called her Dorothy in Dancing with the Fishes? I thought it was what made her tough enough to stay in New York despite being the "new kid from the country". It's what made it more believable for me when Lindsay started pushing everyone away in S3.This might, however, be the element Belknap added to the character, rather than what the writers intended.

I can understand that, but the fact that Belknap doesn't manage to connect with a lot of you hardly means she's a disgrace to crime shows everywhere. If she didn't pull off her emotional storyline that well, she does perform her typical, job-description role of CSI in a way that's clearly worthy of the show. I've seen even people who dislike her admit that she performs well whenever they keep her away from the emotional stuff.

I was cringing through most of Stella's emotional scenes in Grounds for Deception, and I still tend to fast forward entire parts of All Access, but it doesn't stop me from looking forward to watching MK in new CSI episodes anyway. The basic acting she's supposed to do is always good. Stella's fun to watch as a CSI, I don't care what she's like as a CSI "going through things".

Lol, that's where Yelina went. :lol: I know the detective precedent is important, but I still maintain there are ways of keeping characters on shows if enough people really want to see them. Sofia wasn't always a detective, she started off as Daytime CSI supervisor, didn't she? Hawkes was moved to the CSIs presumably to make room for a non-regular ME, never mind the mind-boggling leap of logic that required. (I know you at least have to have some police training and possibly a degree to become a CSI, being a former doctor isn't enough.) I don't know what training Angell might've had, or what other job options might be available for a Homicide Detective, but I'm sure they could've made just as big a leap if demand for Angell had been high enough. And I'm looking at the other expenses they have on the show (like virtual autopsies and bullet-proof Hummers and random famous people in every episode, and whatever else), things that could've been cut back on to keep EV on the show. Even as a still-recurring character. But things that were ultimately seen as more integral to the show than Angell. I do have to think that back in S4 when Robert Joy wasn't a regular, if it had come down to him or, you know, virtual autopsies, there would've been a little more of an issue.

Yeah, I guess it could be seen as manipulative. I think I'd have to believe that Lindsay knew Danny felt something serious for her, though, before I could believe she intentionally manipulated him. Or rather, I'd have to believe Danny actually did feel something important for her before I could see this as manipulation, and not as something a friend would ask of another friend (and said friend would do).

Well, Top41 and I were discussing how Lindsay is often emotionally unavailable - people reach out to her a lot, and she doesn't reach back. It's not surprising that a casualty of that trait would be her having no emotional connection to anyone other than Danny. Danny's also the only one who kept at it with all the subtlety of a bulldozer. It's part of the reason I think he might've gotten through. Huh. Which does suggest that they spent a lot more time on developing D/L, but I can't believe it was completely unintentional that the most emotional character on the show is the only one who's gotten through to the most distant, aloof character on the show. I think that says something important about Lindsay's character, something the writers intended to say.

That might be the case, but these shows of care and concern still indicate that Stella is genuinely fond of Lindsay, even if she is awkward around her. On Lindsay's side, her lack of reciprocation makes it seem as though she's all "take and no give", but I don't believe she's completely cold when it coms to Stella either. She's gotten upset when something bad happened to Stella, she was there to help with revenge-seeking Drew. I do think a lot on this relationship has been sacrificed to focus on other things, but I'd still say there is a relationship there.

:alienblush: Well, my point was more along the lines that many people who responded well to S2 Lindsay because they saw her as "spunky" and "attractive" are still the same people who are her fans today - and others, like yourself, put up with her because at least she was interesting when she was just spunky. Didn't mean to come across as a rabid fan myself, I was more trying to make a point about the new character. Like you said earlier, people either like or put up with spunky characteres, and therefore forgive the other characters for responding to them with special treatment. When they stop becoming so endearing (usually around the same time they're given a storyline that requires them to act less than perky 24/7), the onscreen response to them stops making as much sense, and just gets annoying. I think it's a dilemma Kaye Sullivan is going to face, which means they're either going to leave her perky and 2D forever, or she'll become the next divisive character on CSI NY.

 

*sigh*

*shoves him into the safety of the closet* :shifty:

 

I actually don't think it will be Hawkes at all. He seemed the most calm when they were doing that cliffhanger video interviews (anyone know what i'm talking about?) He started joking about how Hawkes needed a girlfriend. Silly Hill. :lol: Everyone else (Carmine and Eddie especially were much more concerned) Maybe i'm reading too much into this, but that's me. Oh jeez, it could be anyone. Either way, it better be "life-changing" as they have promised.

*needs more spoilers!*

Oh and welcome Maya! I see you have lots of thoughts on Lindsay. I do too, but mine aren't good.

 

Lol, thanks for all the welcomes! :thumbsup:

Curious here. Did the producers actually say that one of the team would be leaving (and I mean, after Pay Up)? Or did they just say that what happens would be life-changing? Because I know the possibility that Mac or Stella might leave the show is basically zero, but if it's one of them injured, that might be grounds for one of the others (Danny, Lindsay, Hawkes) being promoted to CSI Level 2. In which case something could happen like on Vegas, where the team was periodically split into two (Catherine, Nick, and Warrick vs Greg, Sara, and Grissom). Which would also be life-changing, and would be another good reason to bring in a new character.

I'll agree with that, though I think given the number of times Lindsay's fobbed him off with a fake "I'm fine" would have sent up signals that she wasn't great with personal problems long before "Child's Play" for Danny. But yeah, totally not getting into my problems with D/L. Just in general, they need a lot of work.

Well yeah, I still agree that Flack's character presence is felt through all those seasons. My point was more that it was felt even with minimal, episode-long storylines. He didn't need a storyline to give his character presence, any more than Hawkes has ever needed storylines to make us feel his presence. In the same way, I believe Lindsay makes us feel her presence in each episode she's in (or rather, stronger in S2 and S4) even though she hasn't had an actual storyline since S3. If she didn't, it wouldn't irritate so many that Anna Belknap is still on the show. I don't think character presence can be judged in terms of storylines.

Feel a little embarrassed here, but it was the only way I was able to excuse Lindsay's "cuteness" and "sweetness" and "enthusiasm" - I just figured that no one can actually be that peppy, all the time, with nothing else going on underneath. It made more sense to me that she'd be friendly and smiling on the surface while still holding everybody at a distance. A defense mechanism of sorts, I suppose, to keep people from questioning too deeply.

...I guess I am looking at things from a different perspective, because I'd just figured that the whole never-reaching-back, keeping-people-at-a-distance was Lindsay's thing, like nervousness is Adam's and nervous energy is Danny's. I see a believable character there.

Didn't Danny immediately ask "What's the matter with you?" kind of harshly right after she said that? When you mentioned playing on Danny's feelings, I didn't think that was the quote you meant. I thought you were referring to the part where she flat-out tells him "I need you to take this" - which I guess could be seen as manipulative if you're looking from the angle that Danny had feelings for Lindsay at that point. (I still can't see it as any more than a crush, myself, and thus can't see it as any worse than asking a favour from a friend.)

 

Oh they communicate fine - just not when it's important. They need so much work. But yeah, she should've made more effort, though for the record I think she would've done okay had he bothered going to her for the support. But I get how it'd probably be easier to talk to Flack.

Lol, it'll be up for debate forever. Lindsay's always been a background character, perky S2 or perky-againS4 notwithstanding. Though I will admit I shared your frustration with the D/L epidemic of the latter half of S4, I also have to admit my frustration has more to do with the fact that it can even be perceived as punishing Danny. He was sleeping with Rikki at that point, why not stick with that, why the sudden interest in Lindsay again? I know Lindsay said she loved him, but they also implied she'd get over it. So...gah.

Difference of opinion, I guess. The first episode I saw Lindsay in wasn't Zoo York, it was Cool Hunter, and she was so upbeat in the episode I wanted to smack her. I think I might've been just glad to see the coldness.

I don't think it has to be a likable trait, though, does it, so longs as it gives the character their edge? I mean because what`s likeable is so subjective, and there`s no point in trying to please everyone. I disagree that the trait necessarily has to define the character's every move. We all know Adam is nervous, but he's not nervous every second that he's onscreen. And Danny is perfectly capable of going over evidence or presenting a point without twitching with energy all the time, although we do, inevitably, get reminded of that energy. Likewise, we are constantly reminded of Lindsay`s aloofness despite her surface cheerfulness.

 

I really really hate getting out on a limb and handing you a saw. Can I have it back please so I can find a better limb to stand on? I realize that Anna is as much the problem to you as the character of Lindsay. The only thing I will say is that I think Anna handled being pregnant much better the second time around. (Which is what I should have said in the first place) She looked swollen and puffy and miserable in Season 3 toward the end, which is when she had all the emotional scenes to do and, having gone through pregnancy twice, I can't imagine how difficult it must have been to maintain character while dealing with that. That isn't an arguement...just an observation and you're right. Other women have handled it better.

I guess we'll find out since this is all speculation anyway. They could pull a fast one on us and not get rid of anyone. I think we all have our favorites that we want to save and characters that we could do without. I just think that Hawkes is an at-risk character. Nothing personal against Hill in the least. As excited and committed as he is, as they all are, the execs are going to do what they think is best for the show and the bottom-line. All charactes are chess pieces, sadly enough and we can't do a thing about it.

You have mentioned this before, saying that Lindsay passed him off to Flack instead of helping him herself. I don't know if I posted this before or tried and the computer ate it, but I see those scenes from a totally opposite viewpoint. Lindsay certainly did her share for Danny. She talked to Flack about not being able to reach Danny and he offered to go by the apartment while Lindsay volunteered to lie to Mac to cover for Danny, and when Flack came by the lab with the program from Ruben's funeral service she did some sort of test right there in the lab where it could be questioned by anyone coming in (Mac or Stella) which would have been hard to explain seeing how he was supposed to be sick with the flue and they werent working that case (in the show) at that time. I don't see that as passing him off to someone else. She couldn't very well leave the lab herself and go looking for him. They were already down one person because he wasn't there. What would you have had her do instead? I guess she could have gone to Mac or Stella but then we wouldn't have seen any good Flack and Danny scenes.

She did say that about getting all the jobs no one wants. And he did ask what was the matter with her. She did give him an explanation. She told him that she didn't deal well giving moms bad news...that she could give bad news to dads all day long but not moms. I didn't get the impression that Danny understood it, but he had already told her to let him know if she needed anything from him, and she did. So she asked and he helped.

Check it out...I got those quote thingies to work.

 

Yes! :luvlove: For what it`s worth, this is the most online fun I`ve had in...years, I think.

Well, I didn`t see Danny being in love with her at that point, so I can`t see how her telling him she`d get over him should`ve hurt him. But I`ve always felt that she did know about Rikki. Danny implied she did during The Box. Furthermore, she said ``Don`t mistake this for jealousy`` at one point during her speech, and who else could she have been referring to, other than Rikki? She wouldn`t have had a reason to be jealous of anyone else. (maybe Flack, because Danny might`ve talked to him - but she`s the one who sent Flack after him, so I`m otherwise lost.)

Oh... I have to say Stuck on You is another episode I found Lindsay annoying in, first time I watched it. The peppiness mixed with determination - I like them in Lindsay when I see them now, but back then my Mary-Sue alarms wouldn`t stop screaming. I can see how those would be appealing character traits, but if they`re the only things I know about a character, the character quickly becomes an irritant.

 

I always enjoy the back and forth of debate on this forum. As for the Danny/Lindsay/Rikki thing...well:

I saw Lindsay go after Danny in the morgue in Child's Play after he waved her off and left. She talked with Mac and then followed in Danny's path out of the room. That tells me she at least attempted to be there for him. Whether or not he allowed it is another thing.

As said previously, she did what she could while at work and not able to contact him in All in the Family with working through Flack. Perhaps because she knew if he wouldn't let her help that he would accept help from Flack. If he rejected her help in the first place, she didn't have to care at all and could have washed her hands of everything at that point.

I saw Danny as feeling completely worthless after Ruben died. He blamed himself for it and couldn't see how anyone would find him worthy of anything, let alone love him. And for the record, I don't think his sleeping with Rikki had anything to do with love or even lust. It was pain, pure and simple and he felt responsible for her pain and, for some reason, thought that making her feel good would make him feel better. Human touch is a healing thing. I think he went way too far, but this is Danny we're talking about and he always goes overboard.

Either that or the writers had too much time to think about it during the strike.

Personally I thought she was jealous of the fact that he wouldn't let her help but would let other people.

Therefore, it does make sense for her to decide that she has to let go of the love she feels if he won't let her help him and has completely shut her out. I can't blame her for saying it to him. He needed to know at that point she still found him worth loving and he needed to hear it. The shocked look on his face said to me that he was astounded that she found anything in him worth the effort. Not that she thought of herself as his girlfriend when he didn't feel the same way. Her saying she had to find a way to let it go was telling him that he had a choice to make. He could continue on the path he was on and lose more than he thought or he could choose to let her in. Sometimes, when someone has sunk that deep into despair it takes a challenge like that to jar them into conciousness again. He did insinuate in The Box that she figured out he was getting and taking comfort elsewhere and she may have realized that. That could also be the reason for her jealousy, just the fact that he turned to anyone else when she wanted to be there for him.

The only mis-step I saw in her actions was the birthday scene (can't remember the episode). I hated that she was so (can I say p*&&% on here) about the birthday. Good lord, there were so many bigger issues at hand than the fact that he missed her birthday. She was way off base there and I will freely admit that it wasn't one of Lindsay's better moments.

 

The spoilers we received for the season finale quite a while back did mention the life-changing/threatening event for another member of the team. And CBS posted this along with a video where the cast talks about someone leaving the show, and its quite annoying because they never specify if they are talking about the cliffhanger or the first death (Angell); this is what CBS had on the description:

This season's season finale leaves one of the team dead. We don't find out who it is until next Fall.
And here is the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThVrEKRUIcs&feature=channel_page


Now that I see it again, this video is definitely ONLY about the cliffhanger, at times it does seems like they are talking about someone dying because of the cliffhanger and then sometimes you just can't really tell if they were talking about not knowing who was dying in the beginning. So confusing! But they guys add the end does say "If you're wondering who lives and who dies, you'll have to wait until the fall premiere to find out."

It's also a possibility that CBS messed up the FIRST description I posted above. They did switch Anna's name for Lindsay's when the press release came out for "Greater Good." That still makes me :lol: :lol: I don't think they would mess up on the video though.

The video also says that the cast members don't know who it is either but I mean c'mon, you would know if your job was in jeopardy, they can't just put EVERYONE's job on hold until they decide in june/july who it is.

Is there a time maching were we can make september come faster??!

 

If there is a time machine I'm all for using it. I don't like these kinds of surprises when it comes to my TV shows.

As for the splitting of the team into two separate teams and promoting someone to CSI 2 the thought had occurred to me but I really didn't give it much thought because I have been under the impression that one of the CSI's would die in the beginning of S6. If they promoted Danny, as the one that has been there the longest that would be great. Finally, they could show growth in one of their characters and since Danny has settled down some it would be believable. Or it could be Hawkes which would give him a great opportunity to have a story line of his own. The team has basically been in the same positions for, what, 4 years now with no promotions or anything. Maybe it's time.

 

I didn't see the videos!!! I tried your link but YouTube tells me it is not available in my country :angryrazz: I. Must. Find.

My thought exactly and that's why I'm not buying it. Some people are already in the known about it (logically IMO) and they're damn good at keeping their mouth shut! At the same time, it would highly suck to ruin the punch for everyone kinda like the HP leak on the Internetz.

I hear you, sister! :beer:

The show is indeed in great desperation for a progress/evolution/freshness within their characters, either in general or specifically to one. Do they think they can achieve that by bringing a new investigator?! But I have noticed that things have stalled too, yeah. Maybe that could explain why Carmine seems blasé and felt the need to take off his glasses to make his character feel fresh for him? In the first seasons, I had the impression the writers were trying to give every one a story line on a sort of rotation basis? Now it seems that's pretty much gone!!! I was dying to get Hawkes/Adam/Sid development for S5 but they left me on my appetite... I thought we were getting there with Hawkes in Yarhzeit, correct me if I'm wrong, when he talked about his uncle. There was also this story about his girlfriend being rape in one episode... can't remember what's the title...

And I don't know if it's due to the actors schedule and whatnot but they need to share the screen-time? I mean, I feel like I've been seing the same faces over and over again this past season because we only got the D/L story line, which was major considering the baby situation and they got a lot of fans that were dreaming about it, and only some good moments with the other characters. I'd like another episode that puts the character in the "spotlight" like this episode when Hawkes was being suspected of a crime! I thought it was such a good episode even though the viewers just KNEW he couldn't have done it... it was a good story nonetheless. So, as far as getting more Hawkes, he could be the one helping Flack with his grief. I don't know if it was intentional from Harper but Hawkes seems spiritual/religious (and if it was not intentional, I think it's amazing that Harper's spirituality oozes out of him that much lol) and being an ME you kinda have more perspectives about life and death. Or that might just be my opinion about MEs lol I've never talked to one in real life so all I got is what TV offers me, which is often time romanced for the sake of the show...

So... yeah!!! :lol: Sorry for my babblings! I can't wait for September to kick-in with S6. And hope they were right by bringing this new investigator in. Still no name about who will play her? I'm very curious about that lol