CSI:NY Season 5 Spoilers Discussion - Start Spreadin' The News!

[csimania19]

rikki's return will be an interesting twist to the story. maybe danny and lindsay had this fight and danny needed someone? haha. idk. will look forward to how this will play out.

mac and stella getting their own love interests. hmm. i don't see mac with either quinn or jordan. maybe someone new. lol. but stella. great news that this time she's gonna have a good guy. i mean come on, she deserves someone who she doesn't have to eventually kill or someone who used her to get revenge. hahaha. brett maybe? we'll see.

 

[dutch_treat]

We so need a vomitting smiley

That may come in handy every time Rikki being or getting pregnant is mentioned, too; even if Ausiello knows he sure isn't gonna tell and he now just uses it to stir up the emotions among fans.

I like the fact that Stella finally gets to meet a nice guy and I'm curious what his connection to the team or her will be.

 

[Top41]

That kid is cute and kind of looks like what I would imagine Danny and Rikki's kid might; I never would have know there was an HP connection. :lol: Anyway, hopefully we'll get new spoilers soon that indicate why Rikki is back. Four episodes is lot--it's probably a significant storyline.

I gotta say, I'm not a SMACKED shipper at all--I like them separately but can't see them together romantically. Their friendship really is a strong one, and is a big focal point of the show. I don't see them getting together ever really, but certainly not until the last season of the show, because that would kill whatever sexual tension there is there.

I think we've all learned from the example of Danny and Lindsay--whether you hate the pairing or love it--that going canon isn't really a good thing. There's no drama in a happy relationship, so the writers then have to come up with ways to separate the pair and keep them apart, going back and forth--and that just gets frustrating after a while.

Just a thought--I wouldn't be too hard on the writers for not getting Mac and Stella together, though.

 

[dutch_treat]

Top said:
I think we've all learned from the example of Danny and Lindsay--whether you hate the pairing or love it--that going canon isn't really a good thing. There's no drama in a happy relationship, so the writers then have to come up with ways to separate the pair and keep them apart, going back and forth--and that just gets frustrating after a while.

That's true, but on the other hand why does there always have to be drama in the relationships. There already is a ton of drama on the show with the victims, the suspects, their relatives, etc. Why not compensate that drama with just a carefree relationship between two main characters? It gets kinda weird and highly unbelievable that none of them is able to get or keep a 'normal' relationship with anyone.

For me D/L is not beyond saving, but I fear that with the new man and recurring woman and perhaps in the future men and women, they will indeed be turned in to CSI:NY's Ross & Rachel, Lorelai & Luke or whatever similar pairing there has been in TV-land over the years.

 

[Top41]

That's true, but on the other hand why does there always have to be drama in the relationships. There already is a ton of drama on the show with the victims, the suspects, their relatives, etc. Why not compensate that drama with just a carefree relationship between two main characters? It gets kinda weird and highly unbelievable that none of them is able to get or keep a 'normal' relationship with anyone.

Well, IRL there isn't always drama with relationships (thank goodness!) but for television, if they're going to write something, it logically needs to be a source of drama. Otherwise, why bother putting the characters together in the first place? Everything in these shows is done to create drama and interesting situations so people will tune in.

For me D/L is not beyond saving, but I fear that with the new man and recurring woman and perhaps in the future men and women, they will indeed be turned in to CSI:NY's Ross & Rachel, Lorelai & Luke or whatever similar pairing there has been in TV-land over the years.

I think there's a good chance of that, though it could go the other way as well. Eric and Natalia hooked up on CSI: Miami and even had a pregnancy scare, and then ended it, presumably permanently. Catherine and Warrick almost got together--and got tons of press attention--and then he married someone else. So the franchise doesn't always pay off those pairings long term. I guess we'll see how it unfolds; at this point, it could go either way.

 

[JellyBelly]

I gotta say, I'm not a SMACKED shipper at all--I like them separately but can't see them together romantically. Their friendship really is a strong one, and is a big focal point of the show. I don't see them getting together ever really, but certainly not until the last season of the show, because that would kill whatever sexual tension there is there.

I agree. They have a great relationship as it is. In fact close, platonic relationships between work colleagues is one that exists throughout the world in RL. Unfortunately when it comes to TV drama these relationships are all too often turned into romantic ones, then comes their downfall. I really hope this doesn't happen with Mac and Stella. They're fine as they are.

I think we've all learned from the example of Danny and Lindsay--whether you hate the pairing or love it--that going canon isn't really a good thing. There's no drama in a happy relationship, so the writers then have to come up with ways to separate the pair and keep them apart, going back and forth--and that just gets frustrating after a while.

Good lord yes!! The appeal of any romantic relationship in a TV drama starts with the anticipation of them getting together, followed by any obstacles thrown in their way once they do get together. Happy, snuggly, loving couples don't make an interesting TV show. Be warned all shippers, careful what you wish for.

For me D/L is not beyond saving, but I fear that with the new man and recurring woman and perhaps in the future men and women, they will indeed be turned in to CSI:NY's Ross & Rachel, Lorelai & Luke or whatever similar pairing there has been in TV-land over the years.

I think there's a good chance of that, though it could go the other way as well. Eric and Natalia hooked up on CSI: Miami and even had a pregnancy scare, and then ended it, presumably permanently. Catherine and Warrick almost got together--and got tons of press attention--and then he married someone else. So the franchise doesn't always pay off those pairings long term. I guess we'll see how it unfolds; at this point, it could go either way.

I agree that D/L is not beyond saving but I do question whether I want it to be saved, based on how tptb have handled the last two seasons. I think it's very likely that it will be over for the time being, it's just a case of whether it's a final break or not. Tptb have been so atrociously ambiguous that I can't help but think their main aim is to keep the debate going for as long as possible. That being the case, I imagine they will leave things open enough that there's a good chance for D/L to be together again later, irrespective of who each of them may be with in S5. But yes, that level of amibiguity really does get annoying after a while.

 

[Kimmychu]

:lol: Have I mentioned how much I love Ausiello and the spoiler folks? I got nothin' on their Tactics of Manipulative Evil™. Being able to rile people up into an angry, mindless frenzy with a single sentence, loves it. :evil:

In the case of DL, one of the most obvious clues of its eventual end was when Carmine Giovinazzo mentioned it being 'a prop for Lindsay', just like Danny's a prop for her character. Props are never meant to be permanent, and in this situation, to make the props she has as such would be devastating for her character and for Danny's.

We've all seen the proof of how much damage it's done to both characters in the past few seasons; Lindsay has almost zero background development apart from being Montana (good God, I hope we never, ever have to hear another lame hint that she's from there) and that a group of her friends were killed when she was a teenager. The court room scene should have been her 'moment' but Danny's appearance completely stole the limelight. Danny turned into her prop caused TPTB to mangle his characterization just for the sake of the 'job', to the point some viewers he was a 'lapdog without any balls'. And geez, I don't want to get started on the juvenile, OOC DL drama in seasons three and four. The drama in season four was so bad the ratings showed that it (or least it as one of the major reasons) drove millions of viewers away.

So as long as Danny and Lindsay are paired up, he will always be a prop who inadvertently grabs all attention away from Lindsay, while she will always be nothing more than his flat shadow, unable to grow because it's become such that the character people only care about is Danny and she's secondary to him. If her character is to grow and if she is to be her own independent person, she has to kept apart from Danny. The way things have been, the instant she and Danny are paired up again, she'll revert back to being nothing more than Danny's shadow.

As to whether TPTB will totally end DL for good, Carmine did say something in his last interview with CSI Files about it: Either they get really serious, or they completely end it. He didn't say 'take a break', he said completely end it. That sounds to me like a permanent end with no plans by TPTB to bring it back once it's done with. And based on the spoilers we've had so far: Rikki returning for multiple episodes, Lindsay eyeing a new man who's also returning for multiple episodes, and Lindsay herself having said to Mac she was 'so stupid for ever getting involved with Danny' ... yep, sounds to me like TPTB is finally wrapping up Danny's unfortunate role as Lindsay's prop all these years.

Oh and yeah, a ship between two main characters going canon, especially on a crime drama which has a long way to go yet, is almost always doomed to drama and an inevitable end.

 

[Shytownmofo]

We so need a vomitting smiley

That may come in handy every time Rikki being or getting pregnant is mentioned, too; even if Ausiello knows he sure isn't gonna tell and he now just uses it to stir up the emotions among fans.

I like the fact that Stella finally gets to meet a nice guy and I'm curious what his connection to the team or her will be.

Thank you for that puking smiley, D_T, but I was more referring to that HP/Voldemort joke being worthy of some rotten tomatoes, but thank you SO MUCH for letting us know your opinion of Rikki.

 

[dutch_treat]

^ You're quite welcome (in both cases), and just for the record it was not so much my opinion about Rikki (which is also no big secret), but more my opinion about the pregnancy idea.

Kimmychu said:
The drama in season four was so bad the ratings showed that it (or least it as one of the major reasons) drove millions of viewers away.

I know we discussed that before, and I still feel that it was not (just) the drama in general. It may have been a reason for some, but I think it was more of a combination of many factors including not such interesting or far-fetched plots. We have to wait and see what changes TPTB have made next season to understand what they thought or discovered caused the bad ratings.

 

[JellyBelly]

:lol: Have I mentioned how much I love Ausiello and the spoiler folks? I got nothin' on their Tactics of Manipulative Evil™. Being able to rile people up into an angry, mindless frenzy with a single sentence, loves it. :evil:

Angry, mindless frenzy? I'm assuming you're talking elsewhere on the net. Haven't seen much of that in here. Although I do think the likes of Ausiello love stiring the masses.

As to whether TPTB will totally end DL for good, Carmine did say something in his last interview with CSI Files about it: Either they get really serious, or they completely end it. He didn't say 'take a break', he said completely end it. That sounds to me like a permanent end with no plans by TPTB to bring it back once it's done with. And based on the spoilers we've had so far: Rikki returning for multiple episodes, Lindsay eyeing a new man who's also returning for multiple episodes, and Lindsay herself having said to Mac she was 'so stupid for ever getting involved with Danny' ... yep, sounds to me like TPTB is finally wrapping up Danny's unfortunate role as Lindsay's prop all these years.

I have to admit that Carmine has been spot on with some of his comments in the past so who knows, maybe he was in the know about an ultimate split. But, in other interviews he's been suitably vague, so I guess we'll have to wait and see. But, he'd also talked about not having a clue as to what was going on with D/L at one point (as did Anna) so I'm not entirely sure he's always in the know, could've just been speculating.

With regard to your reference about 'multiple' episodes, PV did say that in reference to Lindsay's 'eye candy', but so far the reports of Rikki's return have related to a 'few' episodes. Not trying to be picky but from that it seems as though the 'new man' will be around for longer than Rikki. Of course, it could mean that he'll just be seen more frequently and that Rikki's appearances may be more spaced out. Did I see someone post that Rikki is coming back in episode 2 or did I just make that up?

To be honest with you I'm no more convinced that your theory is correct than I am the people who are convinced that D/L are going to get back together and Rikki is just turning up for some sort of legal process to do with Ruben's death. It's all very confusing at this point, but then again it's supposed to be.

 

[Ghawazee]

I wasn't in the mood to post before...

well i must say i didn't pretend Mac and Stella go canon on Season 5. But when you have the type of scenes we had at the edn of Season 4 (a closeness was strongly sugested. Many comments were made in other forums and in Youtube) and then you read they will have new U.O this season it makes you ask if producers are insane

I know we have a long path until the end but a 'ship is not a bubble gum as i said inside another thread
people get tired and that's when the show goes downhill
I feel flatered Mac/Stella was compared to Mulder/Scully relationship
But as a X Phile i can say we lost our patience at the end of Season 7. There was a general discomfort regarding those last seasons .Shippers and non shippers could tell you that!!!
You can't force a relationship when they don't have chemistry at all and you can't force it either when you have a great chemistry and pretend to keep them apart.
It happened with The X Files, it almost happens with law&Order :SVU and it happened with Jag too.

Personally if you feel the chemistry or not i think it's something personal. But I felt it as many people d (even being NOn Shippers) when it's related to mac and Stella and since Day One
I want them together and i would like to watch how 2 adults start a realtionship.
I must disagree when it's said two leads cannot start a relationship.
You should watch La Femme Nikita. The relationship was the main object since the Pilot and It lasted 5 beautiful years (and only it lasted 5 years because there was a war between Warner and Usa Network that affected many show in that time)
And it's a cult series around the world now!

SO if it is well written any pairing could work

Regarding Danny and Lindsay--> well it's not a secret i'm not a fan of those 2. But i do think they need time to be apart. Lindsay needs her own background and danny needs to create new bonds as well
Its a good thing Rikki is not pregnant. It wouldn't be a good idea to put them together just because he lost his head a minute. It's not mature!
I guess she will get into trouble and she will look for Danny's help or a trial because she almost killed that jerk

Only time (and producers) will tell if Danny and Rikki or Danny and Lindsay have a future together


Debbs

 

[Elsie]

From the other spoiler thread:

#505 - The Cost of Living

This looks to be a one case episode, however I've only briefly glanced at the spoilers. It seems that the team are investigating the death of an archaeologist, but he is not quite who he appears to be.

Whilst investigating the case, Stella makes a visit to the Greek consulate.

 

[Kimmychu]

dutch_treat said:
I know we discussed that before, and I still feel that it was not (just) the drama in general. It may have been a reason for some, but I think it was more of a combination of many factors including not such interesting or far-fetched plots. We have to wait and see what changes TPTB have made next season to understand what they thought or discovered caused the bad ratings.

Hence my '(or least it as one of the major reasons)'. It's very possible it's a combo of other factors, but it still doesn't explain why the viewer count only went up after Danny and Rikki were shown on screen to 'be together', why the viewer count then plummeted by over two million when it turned out the DL drama was going to be dragged on anyway and why the viewer count went up again in the remainder of the season only one more time by over a million for an episode where Rikki returned. :lol: I must also add after Rikki's leaving in episode 4x19 seemed permanent, the viewer count dropped by over a million (which meant even less people were watching than before the viewer count rise) and never went back up, not even for the finale.

As for understanding what TPTB thinks may have caused the bad ratings ... personally, I think them bringing Rikki back, Danny having lots of things happening to him that won't involve Lindsay and having Lindsay eyeing a new man are already big clues. :lol:

JellyBelly said:
Angry, mindless frenzy? I'm assuming you're talking elsewhere on the net. Haven't seen much of that in here. Although I do think the likes of Ausiello love stiring the masses.

I think TalkCSI will take that as a compliment. And yes, I'm talking elsewhere on the internet, specifically Ausiello's posts. The comments section often make for hilarious entertainment and insight into the minds of delusional, obsessed shippers. :guffaw:

I have to admit that Carmine has been spot on with some of his comments in the past so who knows, maybe he was in the know about an ultimate split. But, in other interviews he's been suitably vague, so I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Heh, I'd say he was in the know about the split as far back as June 2007. In his interview then, he already mentioned that Danny 'will realize Lindsay is not who he thought she was and may be already looking elsewhere'. In regards to DL/a possible love triangle after being asked if Danny's going to 'cheat', he also mentioned 'he wouldn't say it goes as far as love' ... but he never specified whether he was referring to DL or the love triangle idea. Now that we have confirmed news of Rikki returning and Lindsay going for another guy and hah, Danny's WTF face when Lindsay handed him the Monologue of Doom, I think it's safe to say he was most likely referring to DL.

But, he'd also talked about not having a clue as to what was going on with D/L at one point (as did Anna) so I'm not entirely sure he's always in the know, could've just been speculating.

Yeah, he and Anna did say something like that in separate interviews, but it was that they weren't sure of the current status of DL at the time. Never said anything about not knowing at all what's coming up for their characters though. And so far, Carmine's June 2007 statements have yet to be wrong. That tells me TPTB had already thought about ending DL and possibly pair Danny up with someone else even then. So who knows, Rikki's return may have been in TPTB's books all along the instant she was set to appear on the show in episode 4x11, maybe even before then.

With regard to your reference about 'multiple' episodes, PV did say that in reference to Lindsay's 'eye candy', but so far the reports of Rikki's return have related to a 'few' episodes. Not trying to be picky but from that it seems as though the 'new man' will be around for longer than Rikki.

The word 'few' being in quotation marks. And there's also the official news that she may appear up to four episodes, and that was even before the writers officially returned to work so if they're already thinking she'll show up in up to that many, who knows how many more she may appear in by the time they've finalized the plot(s) for her.

Of course, it could mean that he'll just be seen more frequently and that Rikki's appearances may be more spaced out. Did I see someone post that Rikki is coming back in episode 2 or did I just make that up?

That too. I went to check what Veasey said about the new guy: "He'll recur for several episodes ..." That sounds to me the same as Rikki returning for a few episodes, except in Rikki's case there was a possible number mentioned. :lol:

No, I don't think there's any spoiler that says that. Only spoiler for episode 2 is the Maroon 5 appearance.

To be honest with you I'm no more convinced that your theory is correct than I am the people who are convinced that D/L are going to get back together and Rikki is just turning up for some sort of legal process to do with Ruben's death.

:lol: Can't say I blame you. But for me, there are so many signs, confirmed spoilers and canonical evidence that point at DL coming to a permanent end. 'Course, that's just my opinion.

Ghawazee said:
I must disagree when it's said two leads cannot start a relationship.
You should watch La Femme Nikita. The relationship was the main object since the Pilot and It lasted 5 beautiful years (and only it lasted 5 years because there was a war between Warner and Usa Network that affected many show in that time)
And it's a cult series around the world now!

The thing about La Femme Nikita is ... Nikita was a deadly operative in an elite, top-secret counterterrorist organization with no affiliation to any specific government called Section One, and Nikita's relationship with her trainer was always risky and secretive. Mac and Stella, on the other hand, work for the government in an occupation with strict rules about in-office fraternization (yes, I know the show's already closed an eye to this but I speak in general here :lol. Moreover, Mac is the head honcho CSI and Stella is second-in-command, so to speak. Pairing them together in canon is big step/risk for TPTB to take; if it's mishandled/doesn't work out, it'll be hell for the writers to fix. Just look at what happened to DL on the show!

 

[Curiosity]

From the other spoiler thread:

#505 - The Cost of Living

This looks to be a one case episode, however I've only briefly glanced at the spoilers. It seems that the team are investigating the death of an archaeologist, but he is not quite who he appears to be.

Whilst investigating the case, Stella makes a visit to the Greek consulate.

Yay! Another storyline for Stella. I wonder if she'll learn more about her background and/or family. Looking forward to this one.

I feel the same. I prefer Mac and Stella as very, very close friends. With them, there's always a hint of attraction, flirtiness, and the possibility for something more, that's been there for 4 years. It's subtle, different, mature, like you say, and it's amazing to watch. Mac and Stella both go through relationships that don't work out, but at the end, each is there for the other. Mac and Stella will never 'break up'.

That's a good way to describe it. I think the challenge for the writers with this type of pairing (where there may or may not be an eventual romance) is to keep some degree of ambiguity in the relationship so future options remain open. I thought they did a good job hinting at the attraction/flirting in S1 -- it seemed less obvious to me in subsequent seasons, but I guess that's because Stella and Mac were supposed to be dating other people.

Yep, gotta love that there are many possibilities to Rikki's return! I dunno, even if she does initially return due to legal issues, Matt Mitovich's spoiler that Danny and Rikki have 'a lot to catch up on' hints at much more going on between them. I don't see the writers stretching a legal issues/trial storyline across four episodes either, especially if the episodes are spread throughout the season.

Sorry, I should've been clearer. I don't think the legal issues will be the only focus of Rikki's arc. I fully expect that she and Danny will have some personal issues to address and those probably also will touch Lindsay in some way.

The reason I prefer the legal scenario is because I think it would give Jacqueline P. more to work with and also make Rikki's character and storyline more interesting if there is something more to it than the personal side. One of my big problems with Peyton is that despite all the potential of the M.E.'s role, her storyline never seemed to evolve much beyond being Mac's love interest.

I think we've all learned from the example of Danny and Lindsay--whether you hate the pairing or love it--that going canon isn't really a good thing. There's no drama in a happy relationship, so the writers then have to come up with ways to separate the pair and keep them apart, going back and forth--and that just gets frustrating after a while.

Good lord yes!! The appeal of any romantic relationship in a TV drama starts with the anticipation of them getting together, followed by any obstacles thrown in their way once they do get together. Happy, snuggly, loving couples don't make an interesting TV show.

Not necessarily. That's a trap some writers seem to fall into -- the idea that the only way to make romantic relationships appealing and dramatic is to do the angsty (and often juvenile), "will they, won't they," together then apart scenarios complete with significant obstacles along the way. Not everyone is interested in seeing that type of drama, especially on a crime series, and not every relationship, romantic or otherwise, needs to be written that way to be interesting.

I'd venture to say that one reason the Mac/Stella dynamic currently works is because it's NOT written as some major angsty, on again - off again storyline but instead as a solid, stable relationship which seems like a realistic outgrowth of their history. They still have conflicts but those tend to get resolved without really shaking the established foundation. And it really shouldn't be that difficult to take that type of relationship a step further to romance without turning it into a soap opera. That's what I meant with my comment about a different, more mature and subtle romance.

Don't get me wrong, I understand all the pros and cons of romantically pairing main characters, especially too early in the series. However, I just don't think it's the kiss of death, especially if the actors actually do have chemistry (which is a subjective thing, I know ) and the writing is strong.

I think it's very likely that it will be over for the time being, it's just a case of whether it's a final break or not. Tptb have been so atrociously ambiguous that I can't help but think their main aim is to keep the debate going for as long as possible. That being the case, I imagine they will leave things open enough that there's a good chance for D/L to be together again later, irrespective of who each of them may be with in S5.

Agreed. I'm not a fan of the D/L pairing, but I find it hard to believe there will be a final break at this point. I'd expect the producers/writers to see what the ratings and audience reactions are like with these new developments and factor that into future plans.

 

[Ceindreadh]

Hence my '(or least it as one of the major reasons)'. It's very possible it's a combo of other factors, but it still doesn't explain why the viewer count only went up after Danny and Rikki were shown on screen to 'be together', why the viewer count then plummeted by over two million when it turned out the DL drama was going to be dragged on anyway and why the viewer count went up again in the remainder of the season only one more time by over a million for an episode where Rikki returned. :lol: I must also add after Rikki's leaving in episode 4x19 seemed permanent, the viewer count dropped by over a million (which meant even less people were watching than before the viewer count rise) and never went back up, not even for the finale.

(rolls eyes) The viewer count changes are more likely to be a result of the way the writers strike screwed everything around. It's impossible to say "Oh yes, of course it's all because of Danny/Riki, or Danny/Lindsey" (depending on which ship you're on)
Short of doing a survey of all the viewers, nobody, not TPTB, not you, not anybody can say it's down to one single factor.