Character development or lack there of?

[CSI_Natalia]

I couldn't figure out if there was a thread to post/vent this in, so I just decided to start a new one...

My favorite episodes are ones where one of the CSI's (or a few) are central to the case (i.e. "Smoke Gets In Your CSIs", "Wolfe in Sheeps Clothing", "Internal Affairs"...etc).. but the thing that I HATE about these episodes is that there is little to know follow through afterwards...it's like the next week everything is back to normal...Calleigh's life has been at stake more times than I can count, yet she never has flash backs and/or is there mention of this?

Does anyone know what I mean and feel with me?

 

[Dynamo1]

That has been a major problem of all three of the CSI series. Continuity has been lacking. We don't know how Calleigh's dad has been doing. After Ryan took the credit from Eric in one case, everything is back to normal between them. Ryan's eye doesn't seem to bother him since the nail gun incident. Haven't seen Yelina in a while.

 

[hahagirl]

I think there is a lack of development overall. For one, yes we don't know too much about Ryan or Natalia, but I also feel like something is missing with Horatio, Eric, and Calleigh. I feel like I don't know any of the characters as much as I'd like to.

 

[CSI_Natalia]

I think there is a lack of development overall. For one, yes we don't know too much about Ryan or Natalia, but I also feel like something is missing with Horatio, Eric, and Calleigh. I feel like I don't know any of the characters as much as I'd like to.

Yea this is my main issue with the show.. I know that it's supposed to be about the crime scene, but the show has been on for how many years now? The only reason viewers come back is for the characters

 

[Ajbuckly]

That has been a major problem of all three of the CSI series. Continuity has been lacking. We don't know how Calleigh's dad has been doing. After Ryan took the credit from Eric in one case, everything is back to normal between them. Ryan's eye doesn't seem to bother him since the nail gun incident. Haven't seen Yelina in a while.

I think there is a lack of development overall. For one, yes we don't know too much about Ryan or Natalia, but I also feel like something is missing with Horatio, Eric, and Calleigh. I feel like I don't know any of the characters as much as I'd like to.

Yea this is my main issue with the show.. I know that it's supposed to be about the crime scene, but the show has been on for how many years now? The only reason viewers come back is for the characters

I have to agree with you both. I wonder if the ever changing writers might be the case. Because I still belive ( eventhough certain episodes still make me go:wtf that there has to be a main storyboard where any characterfact or storyline must be listed. But for the characters in one episode to be hurt and hospitalized and then next episode jumping up and down. Or completely forget it ever happen?

One tv- show once upon a time had a character wake up and it was all a dream but for that to happen here would soooo far out. So what criteria does writers use to decide which storyline continues and evolves/develop into more? and which storylines is just an one episode kind of a deal.? Could Ryans old eyeproblem return and get worse? Is every injury to characters the show "let go" card for later?

 

[Ajbuckly]

Well I have given it some more thought and as I am alone in here. I will rant away.


Granted the characters to some extent have to stay within the frame of stereotypical.

Let us work with an exampel:

Which character would cry over "Brokeback Mountain" ?

Horatio: Nope. Unless any head injury or loss of more beloved ones turned him to drinking. We (fans) expect certain matterns of reaction from him which sort of limit what they can add or change with any of the characters.

Natalie: Yes. Any harsh comments from her would be "out of character" sort of speak. See the above.

But IMO they could however extent the personel stories more and perhaps via that change something about the characters.

One of my fav. episodes is the one where Nat´sister gets abducted by the photografer.

1. Should have been an two episode deal. There was so much emotion left in that one. For Nat and for the rest of the team.

2. The sister dead and killer escaped would have opened a possible change in Nat IF they have some workable and interesting storylines down the line for her. She could have replaced Horatio in one of his ever returning evil/good endings.

I belive that is what they are trying to do for Jesse and the dead wife. Which will add more to that character. But they could have done so with other characters before Jesse. Especially as Nat´sister didn´t die and we had a happy ending.

But it will forever be a question of:

How stereotypical or formulabased are the writers? And how predictable does a character have to be as to keep their appeal in the fanbase?

 

[CSI_Natalia]

I don't mean that I want the characters to completely change, or to completely stay the same and be constantly predictable... I just want them to be more, I don't know how to explain it... I want life events to affect them, history to come up, traumatic experiences to actually be traumatic... the way we all are affected by real life things... People change based on life, if that makes sense...

my favorite episodes are always the ones that are character driven.. I know it would get boring if too many of those happened, but yet most shows are based on characters and not crime scenes... so there must be a better balance.


also back to the episode of Natalia and her sisters, this is a great example... why not have kept a relationship between her and her sister... at least a scene where Natalia hangs up the phone and then is like "sorry I was talking to my sister"...

just things like that. Consistency, continuity. And above all else (although this season HAS been better) just a more intimate character interaction/relationship ... something that makes the CSI's more 'real' and less robotic. I would like to feel more that they care for each other sincerely, and not just for the sake of case preservation or job reliability.

 

[Ajbuckly]

But why not add personal stuff as small titbits in a normal episode? why don´t we see them getting picked up by someone after work? or as you say them calling someone to say eg Happy bithday?

 

[CSI_Natalia]

But why not add personal stuff as small titbits in a normal episode? why don´t we see them getting picked up by someone after work? or as you say them calling someone to say eg Happy bithday?

I can't tell if you're agreeing/disagreeing or just misunderstanding me. But everything you're saying is the point I am trying to make , and I agree with you.

 

[silentdisco]

In addition to what others have mentioned, I feel like there's a bit of an invisible wall between seasons 1-3 and 4-present. It's as though the information we've learned about our characters doesn't really apply in later seasons.

Susie and Madison, for example, were never mentioned after it's presumed that Ray Jr. might've been able to donate bone marrow to Madison. Although they weren't "main characters" they were an important part of Horatio's character development and his relationship with his brother. In addition, after Raymond died, there was never really a whole lot of mourning, and I don't remember Ray Jr. making another appearance. Once Julia and Kyle came into the picture, it would've been nice to have a scene at the end of an episode with Kyle meeting Yelina, Ray Jr., Madison, and Susie. Just something as simple as Kyle shaking hands with everyone after he arrived at a restaurant where they were going to have dinner.

Other than the episode that Rory Cochrane appeared in during Season 6, and the one time Jesse mentioned him in the flashback episode, Speedle hasn't come up at all since Season 3. I liked the way they incorporated his legacy and the aftermath of his death into various episodes of Season 3. The team struggled when one of his cases was reopened, Delko had problems with risky behavior, and everyone had to adjust to Ryan coming in as the "replacement". But after that season, and the one episode in Season 6, it's as if he never existed. It would be nice to see Horatio, Calleigh, and Eric visit Speedle's grave at the end of an episode, or having dinner and toasting to his memory on his birthday or the anniversary of his death. Something simple that would take less than 30 seconds.

We haven't seen or heard about Calleigh's dad since Ryan's first episode back in Season 3.

There's still a lot we don't know about Natalia and Ryan. They each have pretty much only had one thing to go on- for Natalia, it was her abusive ex-husband, and for Ryan, it was gambling. Although both are important to their character development, they can't just be the only thing we have to go on.

 

[CSI_Natalia]

silentdisco you are so dead on with what you said.. I touched upon this sort of in the ship thread, in regards to Calliegh and delko.. but you said it much simpliar than I did, and sort of put into words what I could not...

I really see Delko getting shot as definitive time for when the disconnect really becomes apparent.

I hope that TPTB start to address this (which this season has been seemingly doing more so than any other since the point where the show abandoned ship on old history).

 

[greatfan]

It would be nice to see Horatio, Calleigh, and Eric visit Speedle's grave at the end of an episode, or having dinner and toasting to his memory on his birthday or the anniversary of his death. Something simple that would take less than 30 seconds.

That would be nice,but sometimes there is already an old orignal team vs newer team mentality that goes on with some fans.Perhaps having one the team that came after Speed inquire about him or bring up that they had heard what a great guy he was,they wish they had a chance to meet him,etc.

There's still a lot we don't know about Natalia and Ryan. They each have pretty much only had one thing to go on- for Natalia, it was her abusive ex-husband, and for Ryan, it was gambling. Although both are important to their character development, they can't just be the only thing we have to go on.

I've pretty much given up hope we will ever learn anything more.I don't think TPTB or writers care. If something new comes to light for either character,it will be something negative for Ryan and something tied to Nat's abusive husband.Heaven forbid we learn something positive about these two like they participate in charity or volunteer work.Perhaps plays an instrument(which Jonathan Togo does). I love that we know Mac from NY plays in a band,that Doc from LV sings with a band and likes Jazz,etc. If we ever see anything more for Ryan or Nat,I will be shocked!
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[MiamiWolfe]

My favorite episodes are ones where one of the CSI's (or a few) are central to the case (i.e. "Smoke Gets In Your CSIs", "Wolfe in Sheeps Clothing", "Internal Affairs"...etc).. but the thing that I HATE about these episodes is that there is little to know follow through afterwards...it's like the next week everything is back to normal...Calleigh's life has been at stake more times than I can count, yet she never has flash backs and/or is there mention of this?

Does anyone know what I mean and feel with me?

It is a bone of contention with me as well. Take SGIYCSI, Calleigh was in the hospital at one point on a ventilator not breathing on her own and then next episode..poof..it is as if nothing ever happened. I realize that this next episode isn't necessarily the next day but please... And what about WISC when Ryan is kidnapped and tortured all night and there is seemingly no last effects?!!:scream:. Maybe the writers need to keep notes or rewatch their own show

I've pretty much given up hope we will ever learn anything more.I don't think TPTB or writers care. If something new comes to light for either character,it will be something negative for Ryan and something tied to Nat's abusive husband.Heaven forbid we learn something positive about these two like they participate in charity or volunteer work.Perhaps plays an instrument(which Jonathan Togo does). I love that we know Mac from NY plays in a band,that Doc from LV sings with a band and likes Jazz,etc. If we ever see anything more for Ryan or Nat,I will be shocked!

I unfortunately have given up as well. The writers seemingly have their "special" characters they enjoy writing for and the others......Oh, Ryan will probably get a story arc when they come up with a negative storyline and I don't know about Natalia. It's too bad; both JT and ELR are decent actors and deserve better.

 

[Jag Lady]

I was so glad to find this thread. Can I join in? :scream::scream::scream:

True about Suzy and Madison. Heck, since it looks like they're already starting to recycle plots (or do stuff that's totally unbelievable), we can assume that Madison's marrow transplant took, and Suzy brought her back for something. She'd be about 10 by now. It also seems like in the early years, Calleigh's southernness and Louisiana heritage were important. Ends up both she and Walter are from Louisiana. I'd like to see a case that somehow involves a country music or Cajun zydeco festival.

Problem with bringing characters back, it seems like tptb just do it to throw us a bone. They brought back Yelina for the S7 finale, but she wasn't the same. Yelina had gone from kick-butt, sure-of-herself detective to codependent dishrag. And what happened to Ray Jr? Seems like Horatio would move Heaven and Earth for him, but we haven't seen him since Rio.

I agree about the consistency/continuity thing. If the writers were serious about that, they could keep notes on previous episodes and do keyword searches of previous scripts. For example, knowing that Ryan has OCD, they could take the time and effort to find out whether an OCD person would do something they have Ryan doing.

And for God's sake, if you're going to write out a character, make it believable. I've just started watching Criminal Minds, and I can't remember which primary character gave up on what he was doing and just got in his car and drove west, but I think that was a good way to write out someone. How they wrote out Dan Cooper is a great example of what NOT to do.

Perhaps plays an instrument(which Jonathan Togo does). I love that we know Mac from NY plays in a band,that Doc from LV sings with a band and likes Jazz,etc. If we ever see anything more for Ryan or Nat,I will be shocked!

Excellent point, MiamiWolfe. Not only that, but Miami's recurring characters would be a great untapped source of storylines, not to mention something original. I saw David Lee Smith on a Hallmark special, and not only is he a fantastic lead man, I think he even did all his own stunts. You'd never know that from the one-scene, one-line they keep giving him since S3 and the Horatio/Yelina/Stetler storyline (which also sort of disappeared after S3!:wtf.

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

They could do an episode where its one member of the team's birthday and the others bring in a cake (like Cath and the others did for Nicky in "Turn Turn Turn") or throw them a surprise party (like they did for Greg when he made CSI). It wouldn't hurt to have a little fun on this show. Often times, this show is very dark. :lol: Do we even know when the characters' birthdays are? :lol: I know Nicky's use to be in August, but for TTT they changed it and we've had mention of Grissom's birthday... but I don't think there's ever been a mention of any Miami character's birthday.