Character development or lack there of?

[Ajbuckly]

I orignially posted this comment in writers tread but perhaps it is valid here too.


I read in an interview in news forum that Marc and someone else created the Ryan character and determined his trades/characterslol/role on the show. So are certain writers "in charge" of certain characters? And who decides how much we get to know about the character? Producers or writers?

If Miami is based on the "comic" formula as to light, scenes and storylines then it makes sense to keep the characters as they are. They rarely call in sick or have birthdays in that genre.

 

[greatfan]

I orignially posted this comment in writers tread but perhaps it is valid here too.


I read in an interview in news forum that Marc and someone else created the Ryan character and determined his trades/characterslol/role on the show. So are certain writers "in charge" of certain characters? And who decides how much we get to know about the character? Producers or writers?

If Miami is based on the "comic" formula as to light, scenes and storylines then it makes sense to keep the characters as they are. They rarely call in sick or have birthdays in that genre.

I copied my answer from the other thread.
I don't know about the writers being in charge of certain characters. Marc did have some input initally into Ryan's character,but there has been no follow through with the development. As far as I can see there is no one in charge of the characters,or they do an incredibly bad job.Krystal sometimes does a great job,she as well as one or two others have also been the ones that make Ryan look like an ass at times, questioning his loyalty etc. They need to come up with something new(and wonderful) for him.Rather than wonder if certain writers are in charge of characters,I wonder if certain writers dislike certain characters.I also think they also prefer certain characters,and write better for them.They have shown their bias quite a bit the last few seasons.
I think it's the bias of TPTB and writers that decides how much we learn about characters and if there is a certain story being pushed.

 

[CSI_Natalia]

greatfan, I replied in the other thread as well, and am adding this here (after babbling in the other thread, then deciding to cut it out from there and paste it here..)

I am a newer CSI Miami fan..although I feel like a veteran since I have watched almost every episode and know a lot about the show due to reading reviews as I watch and looking up a lot of information..I've become quite the CSIM researcher/historian

:lol: .. I don't know what it is about the show that has me so interested but nonetheless I find many different factors that I enjoy analyzing... and then seeing if there is a correlation in writing/directing..

the directors are one of the most inconsistant variables though, and really not worth analyzing! Which I find kind of strange... although seems normal for T.V. shows.. Though I do not quite know why, nor understand a reason for it.


I had watched a handful of episodes in the past, here and there, just randomly... and suddenly a few mondays ago, nothing else was on to watch and I decided to watch CSIM (I thought I would enjoy it since I love Law & Order and other type shows...and have been watching All my children, my whole life, and always liked Eva LaRue)...funnily enough that episode was 'Die By The Sword' which had a central story line for Natalia (her hearing problem)... and instantly got me hooked... only problem was that, that episode led me to believe Natalia was a more central character than she seemingly is... -- From that monday till now I back tracked, first by watching 'Count Me Out' (which was a great episode!) then by watching all the Natalia centric episodes from season 4 to present, then by going back and watching all the other episodes from season 4 to present... then I went back to season 3 :lol: ... and now I have been watching season 1, and plan to watch every episode again and in order...

hmmm.. the chaoticness of my brain seems to work much like tptb...:guffaw:


Some observations are that Delko was underutilized in season 3. (at least I noticed this after watching some episodes in a row, and unfortunately did not write them down since my 'notes' were not with me at the time)...

There is a lack of personal connection between the CSI's... there is a playfulness in the season 1 episodes as I am watching, that I am really enjoying. We get the sense that they have been working together for a while, and have a familyesque bond.... sure we get that with the more current seasons, every now and then...but not in the same way. ( I loved in the first episode (actually the CSI episode: Cross Jurisdictions, when Delko was suiting up to go into the water, and Speed is joking around about the alligators, and Delko says "I used to have a partner.."... then Horatio takes that fatherly/boss role and is like "boys..." (cut it out!)..) ... Watching this episode was really fun and brilliant in the way it contrasted the light-heartedness of the CSI miami team with the Straight to the point L.V. team...

(i.e.
Calliegh: you got a theory on how the mother and daughter ended up all the way in Miami from L.V?
Catherine: Well we don't actually work theories do we Warrick?
Warrick: No Just evidence
Calleigh: We're much more fanciful down here. Aren't we, Horatio?
Horatio: I think that's a fair description )



Or in episode 2 the short scene in the lounge-like room:
Calleigh Duquesne: Take smells good.
Eric Delko: A little cafe cubano. Put some hair on your chest.
Calleigh Duquesne: Don't you just say the sweetes things.

We seemed to get a lot more of these teasing type quips, in the earlier episodes... not when we get them they're random and one-sided...there is lack of response or playoff from the other characters..


I've really come to love each character, separately and together..

Ryan is a character that I have grown to love, although I did not like him at some points.. and think that until this current season (8), he never fully intertwined in a way I would've liked, with the rest of the team... I still can't figure out his sincerity towards his teammates..such as if his empathy for Natalia's hearing is really him caring about her, or because of his dedication to his job.

For the most part, I love each character. And my main complaints are inconsistencies with them... just miss a more personal touch that the show could have. As well as getting the feeling that each character is well defined, knows and understands the other characters and truly care for one another, and not just for the sake of the integrity of the case and/or his/her job.

ok I'll stop babbling for now, or at least until I can put my thoughts into a more coherent ramble...

 

[Ajbuckly]

Well - IMHO - the dialogue has to be "on" the writers. But perhaps they are soo into the murdermystery part that they don´t focus to much on characterinteraction. If you(TPTB) don´t have an overall direction of characters or characterdevelopment then writers can do as they please.

It is odd that show spends so much time on getting the pictures so perfect as to light and colourtone but doesn´t pay the same attention to characters. As per the extra on DVD Miami is to have a light and bright tone to their pictures with the correct cropping of pictures as well. But do fans/we see the same in characters?

So as producers (just guessing) how would you divide the power and attention between the mysteries - storylines, characterstoryline, "showtone/style" and longivitity(?spelling). And why not have someone overseing the characters and their development?

In the "old" days drama was the B and C characters such as Nat´s sister and Yelina affecting the CSI´s but not necessiraly(?spelling again) hurting or involving the CSI him or herself. Nowadays they have been shot in the head twice and have had all sorts of troubles that create drama for an episode or two, but vanishes never to be seen again in some cases.

 

[Theresa]

With the ratings again hitting a new low this last week, it may be time again to formulate what we fans feel works or doesn't work for this show. They have tried many different approaches to win more fans through the years and are now facing a turning point. I believe this show has plenty of life left in it. When creativity suffers, that is time to get new writers. It is not a problem with the premise of the show; it is a problem with the writers.

Personally, I wish they would spend less time on the case and fancy camera work and more time on team dynamics. I love seeing the human Horatio again. Please get back to the basic core team (Horatio, Ryan, Calleigh, Natalia, and Eric) and their personal stories that have been slowly developing through the years. And please get rid of Walter and Jesse--too many characters are distracting from the strength of the core team. Why do you think Castle and NCIS are so strong--it is a perfect mix of team comraderie and story-telling. They should have the core team appearing in most every scene working together and interacting.

 

[kala79]

Well, Theresa, you have to remember, that both NCIS and Castle are much younger shows, with more potential for it's characters. Besides I think that these cast changes don't do any good to CSIM. I also think that at least one of the newbies should go. Faithful fans love those changes, but more casual viewer would like an original cast. I have that with CSI Las Vegas since Jorja Fox got back. I neither like or dislike her, but I like that the show is coming back to it's basics.
I also think that CSIM have terrible writers and as much as I love EC I think it's been dragged too long and should have a drama-free closure(well, we probably will get it). Also, they tend to make things over-dramatic(everyone is in constant danger all the time and have health issues, extremely quickly resolved). I hope they will not kill off Kyle or anyone else for that matter.
I'm glad that Eric is back; I wish Speedle wasn't killed off.
I also think that these long breaks between new episodes don't do the show any favour - it happened to me and Desperate Housewives, when they didn't show new episodes for a long time in the UK tv, I've lost my interest...

 

[greatfan]

Personally, I wish they would spend less time on the case and fancy camera work and more time on team dynamics. I love seeing the human Horatio again. Please get back to the basic core team (Horatio, Ryan, Calleigh, Natalia, and Eric) and their personal stories that have been slowly developing through the years.

Once upon a time,CSIM had great cases and great team dynamics.The earlier seasons had wonderful team comraderie, an important aspect which has been missing the last few seasons.

 

[Delynn]

With the ratings again hitting a new low this last week, it may be time again to formulate what we fans feel works or doesn't work for this show. They have tried many different approaches to win more fans through the years and are now facing a turning point. I believe this show has plenty of life left in it. When creativity suffers, that is time to get new writers. It is not a problem with the premise of the show; it is a problem with the writers.

I agree with you that the writers have to assume a lot of the responsibility for the fact that the show is sliding. But ultimate responsibility rests with the showrunner, Ann Donahue. She is the one in the driver's seat here and I think it's been clear for a couple of seasons she's either lost interest in the quality of the show or she is not reading the overall feelings of the audience very well.

Personally, I wish they would spend less time on the case and fancy camera work and more time on team dynamics. I love seeing the human Horatio again. Please get back to the basic core team (Horatio, Ryan, Calleigh, Natalia, and Eric) and their personal stories that have been slowly developing through the years. And please get rid of Walter and Jesse--too many characters are distracting from the strength of the core team. Why do you think Castle and NCIS are so strong--it is a perfect mix of team comraderie and story-telling. They should have the core team appearing in most every scene working together and interacting.

I agree completely with you about why NCIS and Castle are so strong ... and I would include Criminal Minds in that category. It is the successful team dynamic - a dynamic that CSI Miami lost some time ago. The connection has been severed between some team members, and I doubt that it can ever be recovered. With others, I suppose it's possible, but I looked at the new additions as a method of repairing the "team" and I think they've done a nice job of starting the process.

Well, Theresa, you have to remember, that both NCIS and Castle are much younger shows, with more potential for it's characters.

Actually, while Castle could still be considered new, NCIS (a spinoff of the JAG series) is in it's 7th season. Maybe you're thinking of NCIS:LA, which is very new.

NCIS just simply has the perfect blend of team, story and character development. Shane Brennan, the showrunner for NCIS (who used to write for CSI Miami) has a terrific attitude with regard to the show and how it should relate to the fans.

Besides I think that these cast changes don't do any good to CSIM. I also think that at least one of the newbies should go. Faithful fans love those changes, but more casual viewer would like an original cast. I have that with CSI Las Vegas since Jorja Fox got back. I neither like or dislike her, but I like that the show is coming back to it's basics.

You may be right, kala79, but I truly enjoy the new additions to the cast. I feel they've added new life and a needed lightness to the show and allowed the "team" to begin to repair itself. I will never buy Ryan and Eric as friends and I was thrilled for Ryan when Walter and Jesse appeared and they appeared to instantly become friends. I will never again buy Horatio and Calleigh as anything but distant associates. The close working relationship and chemistry they had is dead. I don't feel any connection on those rare occasions that we see Calleigh and Natalia working together (although I really enjoy watching Natalia work with Ryan and I LOVE how Natalia's warmth seems to soften Horatio when they work together.) I like what I see with Jesse and Natalia working together. I'm glad we seem to be past that juvenile scene of Natalia refusing to work with Jesse because he stood her up for the drink. Natalia has NEVER been that type of person.

I'd like to see more of Horatio and Jesse so I can get a better feel for their dynamic.

Walter - he's just terrific no matter how you look at it, IMHO!

I also think that CSIM have terrible writers and as much as I love EC I think it's been dragged too long and should have a drama-free closure(well, we probably will get it). Also, they tend to make things over-dramatic(everyone is in constant danger all the time and have health issues, extremely quickly resolved). I hope they will not kill off Kyle or anyone else for that matter.

I think there is an overwhelming feeling that the writers aren't doing a very good job in the last couple of seasons. I too wish for closure of E/C, but I doubt we want the same closure.

I'm glad that Eric is back; I wish Speedle wasn't killed off.

I will FOREVER miss Speed. I can't say that I'm happy that Eric is returning. Instead of moving forward, we'll be backtracking with his return.

I also think that these long breaks between new episodes don't do the show any favour - it happened to me and Desperate Housewives, when they didn't show new episodes for a long time in the UK tv, I've lost my interest...

Definitely a source of frustration that we seem to get on a roll with new episodes and just as we're picking up momentum we get multiple reruns thrown at us. I know what you mean, here.

Once upon a time,CSIM had great cases and great team dynamics.The earlier seasons had wonderful team comraderie, an important aspect which has been missing the last few seasons.

Perfectly stated, greatfan! :thumbsup:

 

[Solitaire]

I agree that tptb need to spend less time on beautifying the show and more time thinking up interesting stories. I would look to see the odd episode where there was 2 different cases- and this might allow more equal screentime as well.
I also would prefer less soap- like storylines. Personally im not into the style of romance on this show (and im not just talking e/c. I havent liked any of the romances on this show!) and the fact that one of them seems to be in danger every other episode. I would like a more realistic development of the characters, where they actually grow and learn from their mistakes.

 

[kala79]

Actually, while Castle could still be considered new, NCIS (a spinoff of the JAG series) is in it's 7th season. Maybe you're thinking of NCIS:LA, which is very new.

NCIS just simply has the perfect blend of team, story and character development. Shane Brennan, the showrunner for NCIS (who used to write for CSI Miami) has a terrific attitude with regard to the show and how it should relate to the fans.

[


Huh, I didn't know that NCIS is in it's 7th season...almost like Miami...It's either fairly new in the UK or i've missed it somehow and it seems new to me.
I'm not a fan of this show- have seen few episodes and find it boring. But I agree that CSIM needs better writers and focus less on camera work(split screens etc).

 

[Jag Lady]

I couldn't agree more about the flashiness and the split screens. I take it many of you who posted here are much younger, but when you get to middle age, that will just hurt your eyes and is very annoying either way.

No, it's the first three seasons that drew me into the show--the playfulness between Delko and Speed. The early Calleigh. She was smart, professional, yet some of the lines she came up with when talking to Horatio had me laughing. Vegas has been able to keep that, even while adding an A-lister like Laurence Fishburne, I think, but it seems like Miami threw that out somewhere in S5.

It's not just the writers, although they play a big part. I've been a big fan of Rick Stetler. I'm sure that a combination of good writing for his part and how David Lee Smith delivers have made his one of the most interesting recurring characters, love him or hate him.

Seems like in any show, the best characters are the ones you can wrap your mind around. They're consistent. eg Dan Cooper. He was someone you could figure out--wore those tacky Hawaiian shirts and was kind of a chunkhead, but a loveable chunkhead, till they totally screwed him up in S6. :wtf:

I too hate the inconsistencies, although it looks like they're trying to get things back on track. I just hope they can do it in time. I hear stories of actors wanting "their" characters to do certain things in the storyline. If that's true, it sounds like the inmates are running the asylum.

 

[Florry86]

I'm quite sure I've never posted in here before, so I think it's time to express my opinion.

As most of the American TV shows I've watched, Miami has big problems in continuity as well as in character development. While some shows tend to have continuity luck, Miami has a big problem in developing its character and the situation keeps worsening throughout the seasons. I think there's a huge efforts from TPTB to improve the situation in this last season, though I don't think they're doing such a great job

Horatio - When I first saw him I though he was one of the most compassionate cops I've ever seen on a TV show, he cared about every single victim and he did whatever he could to hlep them through their disastrous situations. He also had an odd family life (as most of the protagonists on this kind of shows) and he dedicated most of his life to Yelina and Ray Jr. not to mention that he cared deeply about his dead/alive brother. That was till s4 when every took some kind of downturn. First the marriage with Marisol, whose purpose was only to create a special bond between him and Delko. Not that I didn't like it, but certainly I didn't think it was what the show really needed at the time. Then, he had to become the superhero and, finally, they decided he needed to go back to basics and they brought Kyle. I like Kyle, actually I love him, but, in all honesty, they brought him too late. Not that Horatio isn't good with him, but something still isn't right...at least in my opinion.

Calleigh - oh boy....poor Calleigh, I would love to say. To me, she's the wrost character left on the show. Don't get me wrong, she was my fav. till last years, but they did such a bad job. I think that at the beginning of the show, she was probably the best character of the show as, at first, she repraised that kind of female role that other actresses like Marg from "CSI", Jennifer Garner from "Alias" or Andrea Parker from "The Pretender" had....the role of a strong and indipendent woman, determined to obtain what she wanted and didn't have any problems whenever she had to fight against men. She was the type of character, only she was happier and much more cheerful or optimist than the others. That was incredibely good. I know that life isn't always happy and it was pretty clear from the first 3 seasons she had a bad childhood (probably not that bad, still it wasn't good at all), but romance isn't always the best solution to develop a character and, definitely, wasn't the best solution for her. They put her with Hagen and he commited suicide in front of her. To me, that was the best ending ever of a season and, along with Timmy's death, the best way possible to develop her character....though they should have stopped right there instead of finding her *counting* 3 other men . Boy this is just crazy!!!
Also the fact that in 3 years she has to face any possible tragic, life-threatening situation isn't a good step in order to develop her character.

Delko - he was a cool character up until boy genius (whoever had that brilliant idea ) decided they had to shoot him to the brain!!!! That was the most ridiculous thing that has ever happened on the whole CSI Franchise, if not the worst thing that has ever happened on TV Drama Show. I've always hated that storyline and I will always dislike the new Eric Delko till the end of the show. As for what happened with the actor in the last year, I won't comment it.

Ryan - I always get the feeling he'll be the one to leave the show once Delko will come back full-time. The only true storyline he has ever had since his first appearence was the whole gambling stuff...then what? Only some stupid fights with Delko (btw their last episode together hinted they became friend...I'll never buy it, not when I've learned to see Delko wanting to kill him and get rid of his body somewhere in the EverGlades ). He was the typical character who could have been develeoped in a proper way with a romance. I think it's just a shame they got rid off Erica Sikes. For me that's it.

Natalia - oh man they really don't know what to do with the girl. They've tried almost anything for her, but they never went on with acertain storyline. What a shame! Wish they could decide what to do with her 'cause she's the only female character left who is possible to develop.

As for the other characters, there's nothing to say at this point.

CSI:Miami has screwed up with its own characters. No wonder it is loosing viewers. Oh well let's hope someone will improve the situation

 

[electra]

IMO the team dynamic was lost after Speed death.Natalia is a good character but they never continued her development after being found as the mole and I lost interest.Ryan has my attention but mainly becouse of the talent of the actor becouse he has being underused.They should have given more development to those 2 instead of bringing 2 new characters .Is hard for a casual viewer like me (that mostly cares about Eric or E/C) to get into such a heavy storyline like Jesse got.I have watched very little of this season but I ahve seen him more then Horatio or calleigh most of the times.Had they given a chance to Natalia or Ryan to shine I may have been interested now that I am suffering from Eric absence.

 

[Florry86]

I lost interest.Ryan has my attention but mainly becouse of the talent of the actor becouse he has being underused.

Jonathan Togo is very talented and it's such a shame that despite being the third one in the credits he has had almost zero storyline since he first came to the show . They should have given him much more instead of concentrating on useless storylines and characters, which is only ruining the show.

Boy, what a shame to see him used like this :brickwall:!!!!!

 

[greatfan]

You are right Florry, Jonathan should have been given an opportunity for a lot more.

Ryan - I always get the feeling he'll be the one to leave the show once Delko will come back full-time.

I don't think his character is leaving,but I do think Miami may rotate characters as far as their appearence like CSI:NY does with 3 of their characters.He will probably join Natalia in not being seen every episode.Again that's too bad especially if he is rotated out,and the same boring type of situation prevails on the show.