8x04 - In Plane Sight ***CONTAINS SPOILERS***

[GregNickRyanFan]

That RPS scene was cleary a nod to the Warrick/Nick friendship. Those two always used to come up with some way to decide who got the "dirty" job. :lol: The rock paper scissor scene was clearly written to show that these two guys are becoming friends. The writers chose to do the smart (and much less annoying) thing and make these two friendly toward each other (even if it is somewhat teasing in nature).

I think guys by nature can be a bit territorial, but even putting away my "I love Ryan" hat for a second and looking at the scene objectively, I just didn't see Ryan as territorial in that scene at all. It just didn't come off that way to me at all and I don't think that's what the writers' intentions were either. I think both guys were just funning with each other.

I do think in parts of this episode, Ryan was a bit OOC though. But I don't think he was being territorial toward Jesse at all. Maybe testing him a bit like a child tests their parents, but no ill will intended. Now that Ryan has learned that Jesse isn't easily provoked into snapping at people for little things, there is a much more comfortable vibe between the two. I think that was the intention of the scene.

Guys compete with each other, it's in their nature. They can't really help it. That's why you see Tony and McGee competing with each other on NCIS, that was we saw Warrick and Nick competing with each other in the first episode (and more) of CSI Vegas. Thats why we saw Eric and Ryan competing with each other (and Eric and Speed to a lesser degree)... and this is why we see Ryan and Jesse seemingly doing the same thing. They have competitive personalities, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are being territorial or negative towards each other. It feels more like friendly competition than anything else.

The last scene proves that there's no hard feelings between them. They were on their way to hang out together after work. If Ryan was truly territorial, he wouldn't want anything to do with the new guy, so hanging out with him after work would be a "no can do". That's not what we're seeing here. I like that the writers are making them friends.

 

[symbeline]

Show writers should be like parents and love all the characters/children the same.

I agree!

I wonder, however. Is is just easier for them to write for the new characters? The new characters are fresh with no background. The canvas is there for the writers to paint with Jesse, Walter, Tom...

For the established characters it is much harder. They have bio and backgrounds that the writers must remain true to (and they aren't very good at that, to be honest).

So, is it that the new characters are favorites, that the writers are excited because they can be more creative and free with the new characters or are the writers being lazy because it's harder to remain true to the long-time characters?

I think it's probably a little of all of the above.

And I really do enjoy Jesse, Walter and Tom. I think they've brought a freshness to the show that was sorely needed.

That said, they could pull it back a little with Jesse. I love his character and I think Cibrian is doing an amazing job. But the acceptance of a majority of the fanbase could start to waiver if long-time fans feel that their favorite character is still taking a backseat and reduced screen time due to the promotion of Cibiran's character. There could be a backlash against the new characters - and I DON'T want to see that happen.

So far TPTB have done an amazing job introducing the new characters. Fans, for the most part, like and accept them. I hope hope TPTB don't screw that up by forgetting that the other characters have devoted fans as well who are truly missing them - NATALIA????? Where is my Natalia?:scream:

Changing lanes here for a moment, out of curiosity, has anyone read the review posted by Kristine Huntley? Comments are always closed for those reviews now, but after reading it I found myself wondering in some instances if I was watching the same show.

Ms. Huntley has never really been a fan of Horatio and seems to relish the opportunity to stomp on him. So I'm learning to look past her swipes at that character. But she appears to now be campaiging for Jesse over Horatio in her desire to point out that Jesse was right about Carlos while Horatio was wrong about the son. I don't know it's that she pointed it out so much as the relish she seems to take in making the point.

She presents Jesse with a halo while Ryan is presented in a less than positive light in the Rock, Paper, Scissors scene. She found Ryan to be territorial and showing attitude and Jesse "bristling" at Ryan's approach. She equates this territoriality with Ryan making sure Jesse "knows his place."

My problem with this is, as I said, I really like Jesse. I think he in fits perfectly with the team. I think Ryan and Jesse can have the friendship that was never possible with Ryan and Eric. I saw the Rock, Paper, Scissors scene as completely endearing of all three characters involved and saw it as three guys messing around and giving each other friendly grief on the job. Happens all the time where I work. I saw nothing negative about it and found it quite funny.

For how long have a significant number of us complained about perfect Super-H always being right? We are beginning to see a return to the Horatio of years past. The more compassionate, involved, connected and human character. So when he makes a human error and, in a rare moment for Horatio, chooses to give someone he's questionning the benefit of the doubt (I'm not sure he completely believed the son.), rather than seeing Horatio as human, a judgemental finger is pointed at him with the indictment, "You were WRONG! Shame on you! And Jesse was right! Na-na-na-na-na-na!"

I'm left feeling that she is trying to insinuate that Jesse is a better judge of people than Horatio (which has always been a strong character trait with Horatio) and that Ryan is a petty, territorial slacker. As I said, Horatio is always a target, so that will never change.



We are finally beginning to see a TEAM on this show. Can't we just enjoy it for a while before we try to destroy it? I really hope that Ms. Huntley's impressions/interpretations/opinions are only shared by the minority of viewers.

Have you really read her old reviews? She has always loved Horatio and David Caruso, just not Super H. And Super H is a recent change of the character. Read her reviews, seriously.

That doesn't mean that I agree with Kristine in every review because lately I don't at all -I can't stand Langston and Jesse and she likes them, for example--, but it's unfair to criticize her for something that's not true.

 

[Delynn]

Have you really read her old reviews? She has always loved Horatio and David Caruso, just not Super H. And Super H is a recent change of the character. Read her reviews, seriously.

That doesn't mean that I agree with Kristine in every review because lately I don't at all -I can't stand Langston and Jesse and she likes them, for example--, but it's unfair to criticize her for something that's not true.

It may not appear true in your opinion, but that is how I feel about her reviews. The fact that my opinion of Ms. Huntley's reviews differs from yours does not make me a liar and I would appreciate if your wouldn't word you statement to insinuate that I am.

When I have some time, I will go back look at past reviews by Ms. Huntley and see if my memory is faulty or I've forgotten one or two compliments she's given Horatio or Caruso. If so, I'll be more than willing to revise my opinion and admit I was mistaken.

 

[symbeline]

Have you really read her old reviews? She has always loved Horatio and David Caruso, just not Super H. And Super H is a recent change of the character. Read her reviews, seriously.

That doesn't mean that I agree with Kristine in every review because lately I don't at all -I can't stand Langston and Jesse and she likes them, for example--, but it's unfair to criticize her for something that's not true.

It may not appear true in your opinion, but that is how I feel about her reviews. The fact that my opinion of Ms. Huntley's reviews differs from yours does not make me a liar and I would appreciate if you wouldn't word you statement to insinuate that I am.

When I have some time, I will go back look at past reviews by Ms. Huntley and see if my memory is faulty or I've forgotten one or two compliments she's given Horatio or Caruso. If so, I'll be more than willing to revise my opinion and admit I was mistaken.

I merely suggested that you should read the reviews because you'll see that she has praised Horatio A LOT. I wasn't obviously going to transform this thread into a debate whether Kristine is a good reviewer because that's not the place

I'm sorry if you thought that I insinuated that you are a liar, but that's not what I said. I told you that you were being unfair to the reviewer if you only choose to read those parts that agree with your assessment and ignore the others. Not saying that you are consciously ignoring them --in case you think that's what I'm insinuating-- but if you do it, it's not a fair debate.

 

[BauerAlmeida]

Changing lanes here for a moment, out of curiosity, has anyone read the review posted by Kristine Huntley? Comments are always closed for those reviews now, but after reading it I found myself wondering in some instances if I was watching the same show.

Ms. Huntley has never really been a fan of Horatio and seems to relish the opportunity to stomp on him. So I'm learning to look past her swipes at that character. But she appears to now be campaiging for Jesse over Horatio in her desire to point out that Jesse was right about Carlos while Horatio was wrong about the son. I don't know it's that she pointed it out so much as the relish she seems to take in making the point.

She presents Jesse with a halo while Ryan is presented in a less than positive light in the Rock, Paper, Scissors scene. She found Ryan to be territorial and showing attitude and Jesse "bristling" at Ryan's approach. She equates this territoriality with Ryan making sure Jesse "knows his place."

My problem with this is, as I said, I really like Jesse. I think he in fits perfectly with the team. I think Ryan and Jesse can have the friendship that was never possible with Ryan and Eric. I saw the Rock, Paper, Scissors scene as completely endearing of all three characters involved and saw it as three guys messing around and giving each other friendly grief on the job. Happens all the time where I work. I saw nothing negative about it and found it quite funny.

For how long have a significant number of us complained about perfect Super-H always being right? We are beginning to see a return to the Horatio of years past. The more compassionate, involved, connected and human character. So when he makes a human error and, in a rare moment for Horatio, chooses to give someone he's questionning the benefit of the doubt (I'm not sure he completely believed the son.), rather than seeing Horatio as human, a judgemental finger is pointed at him with the indictment, "You were WRONG! Shame on you! And Jesse was right! Na-na-na-na-na-na!"

I'm left feeling that she is trying to insinuate that Jesse is a better judge of people than Horatio (which has always been a strong character trait with Horatio) and that Ryan is a petty, territorial slacker. As I said, Horatio is always a target, so that will never change.

But that is just not how I see Ryan and I think he's been portrayed in a negative light for long enough. It's time to give that character a break and I was really hoping with the postive, friendly interaction I was seeing between him and Jesse he was going to get one this season.

We are finally beginning to see a TEAM on this show. Can't we just enjoy it for a while before we try to destroy it? I really hope that Ms. Huntley's impressions/interpretations/opinions are only shared by the minority of viewers.

I agree with you on about the whole Ryan/Jesse scene, for me that did not come off as territorial, I just thought of it as two guys goofing off and trying to one-up the other, which is something that guys do alot.....it's in their nature to mess with each other.....I saw the RPS scene as something cute and funny, and it is clearly shown in the end that Ryan, Walter, and Jesse enjoys each other's company. Ryan's comment to Walter after being called "Shorty" was more of a retort, meant to be funny and not territorial.

I don't think the reviewer is trying to make Ryan a bad guy, it just so happens that she got a different vibe during that scene than others, that is neither wrong or untrue, after all, we can't make judgement on other people's feelings. There is no clear right choice in that, opinions and reviews are after all subjective, two people can see completely different things when watching the same show, this is not an uncommon thing.

As for the whole Super-H thing and the glowing reviews about Jesse, well, I can't really disagree with her statements about Jesse because I happen to agree with her opinions on how Jesse's character has progressed really well, but as for the Super-H being wrong thing, I think that may have just been her exasperations coming up. I can relate to that, for years I too have been frustrated with the whole Horatio-Knows-All moments, I would mock Horatio all the time and made fun of the character if he did something that ended up being the wrong thing. I think the reviewer is just expressing her gladness of finally having no more Super-H a bit more aggressively than most people would, but I don't think that's the end of the world. In th end, it's just a review, just her opinions, and having differing opinions is not a bad thing or else this world would be very boring.

Guys compete with each other, it's in their nature. They can't really help it. That's why you see Tony and McGee competing with each other on NCIS,

The last scene proves that there's no hard feelings between them. They were on their way to hang out together after work. If Ryan was truly territorial, he wouldn't want anything to do with the new guy, so hanging out with him after work would be a "no can do". That's not what we're seeing here. I like that the writers are making them friends.

I agree with the Tony and McGee thing, although with those two, there is also a level of mentoring going on, with Tony subtly trying to tough up McGee and being a protective big brother. As much as McGee has learned from Gibbs in the last few years, I'd say Tony has even more influenced McGee's life than Gibbs, and I think in sometimes McGee doesn't really realize how much Tony's teasings has made him stronger. But still Tony and McGee are clearly VERY close with each other, NCIS has always been good with making the team very familial like, which is a very endearing trait. Although I do have to admit things were a bit sketchy during Season 6 when it felt like the team dynamic was off that year. But hey, when Season 7 kicked into gear, the dynamic was back on!

I was quite happy that the reviewer, Ms. Huntley mentioned the cleverness of NCIS in her reviews, I agree with her that it is no coincidence that NCIS is the top rated drama on television with over 20 million viewers almost every episode!

And as for the last scene of the Miami episode, I think it just showed more hints that this trio-relationship of Walter, Jesse, and Ryan will work well and maybe the writers are gonna stick with this new trio!

 

[inthewind]

"Yes, Mac is sharp and observant, but lately he feels like the second coming of Horatio Caine, who can practically tell a guilty party just by looking at him or her.":scream:

For anyone who doubts Kristine Huntley's feelings about David Caruso/Horatio Caine, note the above comment from her review of CSI NY last night. Enough said.
On another note, I also like Eddie Cibrian/Jesse, but my feeling is *again* he's being shoved down our throats with too much, too soon. I see a backlash looming if they don't back off and play up the existing regulars who've been long neglected.

 

[Delynn]

I agree with you on about the whole Ryan/Jesse scene, for me that did not come off as territorial, I just thought of it as two guys goofing off and trying to one-up the other, which is something that guys do alot.....it's in their nature to mess with each other.....I saw the RPS scene as something cute and funny, and it is clearly shown in the end that Ryan, Walter, and Jesse enjoys each other's company. Ryan's comment to Walter after being called "Shorty" was more of a retort, meant to be funny and not territorial.

I don't think the reviewer is trying to make Ryan a bad guy, it just so happens that she got a different vibe during that scene than others, that is neither wrong or untrue, after all, we can't make judgement on other people's feelings. There is no clear right choice in that, opinions and reviews are after all subjective, two people can see completely different things when watching the same show, this is not an uncommon thing.

You're right, BauerAlmeida. A review is an opinion, just as most of what we say here is our opinion. Neither is necessarily "true" or a "lie", it is that individual's perspective on that they saw.

As for the whole Super-H thing and the glowing reviews about Jesse, well, I can't really disagree with her statements about Jesse because I happen to agree with her opinions on how Jesse's character has progressed really well, but as for the Super-H being wrong thing, I think that may have just been her exasperations coming up. I can relate to that, for years I too have been frustrated with the whole Horatio-Knows-All moments, I would mock Horatio all the time and made fun of the character if he did something that ended up being the wrong thing. I think the reviewer is just expressing her gladness of finally having no more Super-H a bit more aggressively than most people would, but I don't think that's the end of the world. In th end, it's just a review, just her opinions, and having differing opinions is not a bad thing or else this world would be very boring.

I think Jesse is a wonderful character and I really, really like him. But I'm becoming concerned that there is going to be a backlash if this character, and the hype surrounding him, doesn't settle soon. Already we are seeing complaints that we are seeing too much of him as opposed to the other characters. These complaints are coming from fans who like Jesse and are more than willing to accept him into the team.

I have been so excited at the postive response Jesse has received from a majority of the fans that I don't want to lose that and I think we might be in danger of that happening if we don't see a more even approach soon.

I understand, with Jesse's introduction, that an increased presence at the start is necessary to establish relationships with the team and give us an idea of "who" this guy is, but with the increased presence you risk alienating fans whose favorite character's time is reduced as a result. (I'm seriously missing Natalia here!)

I was never a fan of Super-H. That's why I'm so excited about Horatio this season. He's really starting to return to his humanity. But before I comment on the Super-H period of of Ms. Huntley reviews, however, I will do as I promised and re-read them.

I was quite happy that the reviewer, Ms. Huntley mentioned the cleverness of NCIS in her reviews, I agree with her that it is no coincidence that NCIS is the top rated drama on television with over 20 million viewers almost every episode!

And as for the last scene of the Miami episode, I think it just showed more hints that this trio-relationship of Walter, Jesse, and Ryan will work well and maybe the writers are gonna stick with this new trio!

I agree. NCIS is my favorite show - it actually pulled ahead of CSI Miami a couple of seasons back because it provided me with the team dynamic and character interaction that I wanted to see.

To me, NCIS is the prefect example of how to deal with an ensemble cast. (I'm trying to ignore the TIVA aspect right now, which is my only complaint! )

=========================

Have you really read her old reviews? She has always loved Horatio and David Caruso, just not Super H. And Super H is a recent change of the character. Read her reviews, seriously.

As I promised, I have started re-reading Ms. Huntley's reviews. (RL will make it slow-going however.)

The feeling I get that Ms. Huntley didn't/doesn't like Horatio/Caruso could have come from her statement in her review of "Double Cap" from season 1, where she states:

"I’m not a fan of David Caruso. In fact, his casting caused me to re-think the whole “Must watch CSI: Miami ” thing. I watched the pilot and was decidedly unimpressed – everything that bugged me about Caruso and his character in the original CSI episode they appeared in was present in the pilot."

So her own statement negates the premise that she "loves" Caruso. She does go on from that point to out that he was “really good” in that episode and “demonstrated why he has legions of fans”.

There are very few reviews from season one (5) and two (5), which I feel are the best seasons of CSI Miami, but in reading those reviews there are several positive remarks regarding Caruso, including words like "powerful presence", "effective", "compelling", even one "excellent" for the death scene in "Lost Son" (episode 1 -season 3).

As I'm proceeding, however, (currently towards the end of season 3) I'm beginning to see the reviews take on a less positive approach and what, in my perception, is sarcasm and a passive/aggressive quality when addressing Caruso/Horatio.

Her reviews of both "Golden Parachute" and "Wetfoot/Dryfoot" are current and in Golden Parachute she elects to take Horatio to task for the current evolution of his character (going off half-cocked to Brazil in "Rio"; "take out his anger on a pedophile") and laments the loss of Megan as a "counterbalance" and suggests possiblity that Horatio is close to out of control - not when "Golden Parachute" aired, but at the time she wrote the review. So yes, her frustration with Super-H is a dominate theme in a review for the first episode of the show where that manifestation of the character that she takes issue with isn't even present yet.

I'm thinking at this point a new thread for this topic will be nessary to continue. It's really too bad that comments for the actual reviews aren't allowed.

 

[symbeline]

I'm thinking at this point a new thread for this topic will be nessary to continue. It's really too bad that comments for the actual reviews aren't allowed.

You mean the old reviews or the new ones? You can comment the new ones, they are in the "News Item" section.

Kristine is one of the few reviewers that I've seen praising both Horatio and David Caruso. People tend to hate the character/actor and not because of Super H, so that's why I've always found her reviews surprising. That doesn't mean that I agree with her.

The quote about David Caruso from "Double Cap" that you cited is actually from another person, not from Kristine. Some of the early reviews are from a Patti Vickers who, I presume, is a different person.

 

[Delynn]

You mean the old reviews or the new ones? You can comment the new ones, they are in the "News Item" section.

Seeing "Comments are closed." at the end of the review accessed from the opening CSI Files page led me to believe that comments were not accepted. I'll have to find the section you're referring to and bookmark it. Thank you for letting me know it is exists.

Kristine is one of the few reviewers that I've seen praising both Horatio and David Caruso. People tend to hate the character/actor and not because of Super H, so that's why I've always found her reviews surprising. That doesn't mean that I agree with her.

Oh, I'm fully aware that is some very vocal hatred of Horatio/Caruso. I'm not sure they are so much great in numbers as much as they are focused and vocal in their feelings.

The quote about David Caruso from "Double Cap" that you cited is actually from another person, not from Kristine. Some of the early reviews are from a Patti Vickers who, I presume, is a different person.

I stand corrected. That was inexcusable of me not to notice that Ms. Vickers was responsible for three of the reviews for season one - and most especially the one where I erroneously attribute a quote to Ms. Huntley that belongs to her. My sincere apologies. As I said, absolutely no excuse for such a mistake.

That said, my comments regarding Ms. Huntley's reviews of "Golden Parachute" and "Wetfoot/Dryfoot", as well as the rest of my feelings regarding Ms. Huntley reviews of season 1-2.5 stand. I truly do not see, at this point, any indication that Ms. Huntley likes/cares for either Horatio or Caruso.

I'll keep reading - and I will look for the place to comment on reviews.

 

[greatfan]

You can comment on reviews in the CSI News Items portion of the board ..near the bottom of the page.

 

[Delynn]

You can comment on reviews in the CSI News Items portion of the board ..near the bottom of the page.

Thank you! Appreciate the directions.

 

[MyMutantRomance]

I'm i the only one who is totally loving Wolfe in the sweather vest, i guess it's just my nerd factor coming out.:lol:

Spoiler: Next weeks epi

Who was it that was in the hospital bed that Alex says is brain-dead??????

 

[Delynn]

I'm i the only one who is totally loving Wolfe in the sweather vest, i guess it's just my nerd factor coming out.:lol:

Not at all! I thought he looked "cute". Not a look I'd want to see him in all the time, but I thought it was rather endearing. Not only that, but it made for a great moment for Ryan and Jesse!

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

Ryan would look cute in a potato sack as far as I"m concerned. :lol: However, I find it odd that anyone in Miami wears anything sweater material. :lol: Especially if it's hot outside. :lol: I prefer Ryan in t-shirts though. In this game that I played once called "Jojos Fashion Show 2", one of the guy models' tops is a pink t-shirt (which Ryan's pink tee reminded me of) with a tie. I think that would look cute. Pink tee, tie, blue jeans and sneakers. It's kind of punk-rockish-cool. :lol:

 

[greatfan]

Oh no,not a tee with a tie.The writers may have him say, "oh snap" again.