vegaslights
Brute
Totally off topic, but I just realized that you and I live in the same county, as we get the same newspaper.
08 Presidential Elections
- Thread starter Calihan
- Start date
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Totally off topic, but I just realized that you and I live in the same county, as we get the same newspaper.
Desertwind
Head of the Day Shift
Actually vegaslights my daughter lives in Riverside, and sent me the article. I'm futhur out the San Bernardino areawhere do you reside?
PRESIDENT VISITS GERMAN CAMP urges peace~he was a big hit in Saudia Arabia
http://news.aol.com/
where do you reside?PRESIDENT VISITS GERMAN CAMP urges peace~he was a big hit in Saudia Arabia
http://news.aol.com/
talkingtocactus
Coroner
and he's absolutely spot on! i get so sick of hearing news from the states that socialism and communism are the same. i've heard socialism called "the european disease" on many occasions - well at least we have free healthcare for all, decent benefit systems (admittedly these things are massively flawed but at least we have them) and we actually give a crap about eachother! i'd rather have that disease than the one where all you care about is making more money and bombing the holy hell out of anyone that doesn't do what you want and slandering people who actually try to improve things.
[/rant - i seem to be ranting a lot today, maybe i should avoid these political threads:lol:]
Blue
Police Officer
Dear Lisa,
I am with you, you took the words just right out of my mouth!!!!!
And it frightens me , the power of media and the sometimes uncritical assumption of people!!!
It´s great that people have different opinions and that we have the right to talk about it but a little bit more information wouldn´t be bad!!
Have a great day!!!
Udonna
talkingtocactus
Coroner
the information is always out there, if you look for it. i don't think many people do though
Desertwind
Head of the Day Shift
IGNORE THE SOCIALIST MONSTER IN THE ATTIC
Don't look now, but there's a monster hiding in the attic or it is crouching behind the garden wall. Maybe it's lurking with a troll under the bridge? There are a growing number of Americans who think that socialism is a threat to our free-market economy. Now, the U.S. Chanmber of Commerce says it will commit as much as $100 million to a long-term campaign to teach the verities of capitalism and free markets. 'Supporters and critics alkie agree that capitalism is a crossroads" says U.S. chamber President and CEO Thomas J. Donohue "It's time to remind all Americans that it was a free enterprise system based on values of individual initiative, hard work, risk, inovation, and profit that built our great country" In his statement, Donohue did not mention socialism:but the implication is that it is coming in with the policies in the Obama administration. Indeed, President Obama has not been squeamish about government intervention on the market. The economic stimulus package, the bailout of the banks, GM and possibly some states the wishful "green" energy bill on Capital Hill, and front and center health care reform all add up top a fear by many Americans that the United States is headed toward European-style democratic socialism. The U.S. chamber's Campaign for Free Enterpirse will feature a grass-roots movement and a "vigorous" media and public education campaign focusing on the "economic literacy of younger Americans" It reflects a deep concern by the board of the chamber that the country really is heading down the path of Euro-socialism. The concern begs, the question, Is this so bad? Putting aside those who think Europe's social contracts of today are a kind of Marxism [which they are not] what are these fears? Mostly Europeans like their system and the Organization for economic Cooperation and Development finds that the countries of western Europe outscore the U.S. in terms of national happiness. Certainly cradle-to-grave Euro-socialism is expensive. I also stifles the business dynamic, business just as so much more to overcome to succeed and survive in Europe. If you want to start a business, do it in the United States. But if you want your opera produced, try Europe. Good and bad things come in the Europe package. The chamber will get something for it's efforts and it's the money if it admits that the door is more government was opened not by incipent socialists, but by the excesses of capital mamagers, and that the threat to American business is wrong regulation--not regulation itself. The spector of socialism is in the U.S. context is a political device to frighten the gullible~
by Llewellyn King
New York Times News Services
Don't look now, but there's a monster hiding in the attic or it is crouching behind the garden wall. Maybe it's lurking with a troll under the bridge? There are a growing number of Americans who think that socialism is a threat to our free-market economy. Now, the U.S. Chanmber of Commerce says it will commit as much as $100 million to a long-term campaign to teach the verities of capitalism and free markets. 'Supporters and critics alkie agree that capitalism is a crossroads" says U.S. chamber President and CEO Thomas J. Donohue "It's time to remind all Americans that it was a free enterprise system based on values of individual initiative, hard work, risk, inovation, and profit that built our great country" In his statement, Donohue did not mention socialism:but the implication is that it is coming in with the policies in the Obama administration. Indeed, President Obama has not been squeamish about government intervention on the market. The economic stimulus package, the bailout of the banks, GM and possibly some states the wishful "green" energy bill on Capital Hill, and front and center health care reform all add up top a fear by many Americans that the United States is headed toward European-style democratic socialism. The U.S. chamber's Campaign for Free Enterpirse will feature a grass-roots movement and a "vigorous" media and public education campaign focusing on the "economic literacy of younger Americans" It reflects a deep concern by the board of the chamber that the country really is heading down the path of Euro-socialism. The concern begs, the question, Is this so bad? Putting aside those who think Europe's social contracts of today are a kind of Marxism [which they are not] what are these fears? Mostly Europeans like their system and the Organization for economic Cooperation and Development finds that the countries of western Europe outscore the U.S. in terms of national happiness. Certainly cradle-to-grave Euro-socialism is expensive. I also stifles the business dynamic, business just as so much more to overcome to succeed and survive in Europe. If you want to start a business, do it in the United States. But if you want your opera produced, try Europe. Good and bad things come in the Europe package. The chamber will get something for it's efforts and it's the money if it admits that the door is more government was opened not by incipent socialists, but by the excesses of capital mamagers, and that the threat to American business is wrong regulation--not regulation itself. The spector of socialism is in the U.S. context is a political device to frighten the gullible~
by Llewellyn King
New York Times News Services
I wonder, does a country like Finland or Sweden have the rampant poverty that you'll find in the US?
Man, people love to over-react... or react to the wrong things. I love when I read stuff like "Did Natasha Richardson die because of Canada's socialist health care system?"
People really need to take more time to educate themselves and spend less time listening to and being disproportionately influenced by people who clearly have their own agendas (aka, their fattening wallets).
Man, people love to over-react... or react to the wrong things. I love when I read stuff like "Did Natasha Richardson die because of Canada's socialist health care system?"
People really need to take more time to educate themselves and spend less time listening to and being disproportionately influenced by people who clearly have their own agendas (aka, their fattening wallets).
happyharper13
Pathologist
I wonder, does a country like Finland or Sweden have the rampant poverty that you'll find in the US?
Man, people love to over-react... or react to the wrong things. I love when I read stuff like "Did Natasha Richardson die because of Canada's socialist health care system?"
People really need to take more time to educate themselves and spend less time listening to and being disproportionately influenced by people who clearly have their own agendas (aka, their fattening wallets).
Word. So true (sadly). To your question (not quite sure if it's hypothetical), but I know that Finland does still have some degree of poverty, particularly in the gypsy population. However, the welfare is much stronger so that few, to my knowledge, really starve (at least provided that they spend money on food rather than certain substances).
Desertwind, it would probably be a lot easier if you just copied and pasted articles rather than retyping them. It looks like you're losing a lot of the punctuation and some spelling and paragraph separations in the process of retyping, which makes it a lot more difficult to read.
Desertwind
Head of the Day Shift
Thank's for the suggestion happily but my 'paste' part is blocked out at the moment, so that's not an option. I copied if word for word, accurately just like it was typed in our local newspaper, punctuations and all. I could read it just fine, and I don't know about poverty, it's everywhere, not just in the U.S. just a fact of life~
For the record, you get that I'm essentially a Dem, right (though 'm Canadian)? I'm tired of Repubs trying to paint Obama as a socialist, like it's a terrible terrible heresy. I think you need to look at whatever works to make a better system and f$%k whatever people need to categorize it as. Truly, I am as guilty as the next person of categorizing people/things as "Republican", but...?
All I know is, I want a better day, and I don't care what makes it happen. Semantics don't matter in the end if people are happier, healthier, etc...
All I know is, I want a better day, and I don't care what makes it happen. Semantics don't matter in the end if people are happier, healthier, etc...
Desertwind
Head of the Day Shift
ELECTIONS IN IRAN, BULLETS, BARRELS REMAIN HUGH OBSTACLES TO REFORM IN IRAN
The popular uprising unfolding in Iran right now really is remarkable. It is the rarest of rare things-more rare than snow in Saudia Arabia, more unlikly than finding a ham sandwich at the Wailing Wall, more unusual than water-skiing in the Sahara. It is a popular uprising in a Middle Eastern oil state.
Why is this so unusual? Because in most Middle East states, power grows out of the barrel of a gun and out of a barrel of oil--and that combination is very hard to overthrow.
Oil is a key reason that democracy has had such a hard time emerging in the Middle East, except in one of the few states with no oil:Lebanon. Because once kings and dictators seize power, they can entrench themselves, not only by imprisioning their foes and killing their enemies, but also by buying off their people and using oil wealth to build hugh internal security apparatuses down or changed if enough Iranians vote as they did in 1979--in the street. That is what the regime fears the most.
There is only one precedent for an oil funded autocrat in the Middle east being toppled by a people's revolution, not by a military coup, and that was in..Iran. In 1979, the Iranian people rose up against the Shah of Iran in a Islamic Revolution spearheaded by the Ayatollah Khomeini. The shah controlled the Army, the SAVAK, secret-police and a vast network of oil-funded patronage. But at some point, enough people taking to the streets and defying his authority, and taking bullets as well, broke the shah's spell. The Islamic Revolution has learned from the shah. It has used it's oil wealth to buy off hugh swaths of the population with cheap housing, gov. jobs and subsidized food and gasoline. It's also used it's crude oil to erect a vast military force--namely the Revolutionary Guard and the Bbasij militia-to keep itself in power.
Therfore, the big question in Iran today is: Can the green revolution led by Mr. Hussein Moussavi, and backed by masses of street protesters, do the Islamic regime what Khomeini and the Iranian did to the shah's regime--break it's spell so all it's barrels and bullets become meaningless? Iran's ruling mullahs werre always ruthless. But they disguised it with a bit with faux elections. I says faux elections, because while the regime may have counted the votes accurately, it so tightned the of who could run. The choices were dark black and light black.
What happened this time is that the anger at the regime had reached such a level--because of near 20% unemployment and a rising youth population, tired of seeing it's life's options limited by the theocrats--that given a choice between dark black regime candidate and a light-black regime candidate, millions of Iranians turned out for light black: Moussavi. Moussavi surely less liberal than most of his followers. But just his lighter shade of black attracted and unleased so much pent-up frustration and hope for change among Iranians that ehe became an independant candidate and thus, his votes simply could not be counted because they were not just a vote for him, but were a referendum against the entire regime.
But now, having voted with their ballots, Iranians who want change will have to vote again with their bodies. A regime like Iran's can only be brought down, or changed--in the street. That is what the regime fears the most, so they shoot their own people to try and squealch this rioting in their streets.
If the reformers want change, they are going to have to from a new leadership, lay out their vision for Iran, and keep voting in the streets--over and over and over. Only if they keep showing up with their bodies, and by doing saying to their regime "We cannot be bought and we will not be cowed" will their ballots be made to count.
I am rooting for them and fearing for them. Any real moderation of Iran's leadership would be hugely positive effect on the Middle East. But we and the reformers must have no illusions aobut bullets and barrels they are up against~
Thomas Friedman.. NEW YORK TIMES NEWS SERVICES
The popular uprising unfolding in Iran right now really is remarkable. It is the rarest of rare things-more rare than snow in Saudia Arabia, more unlikly than finding a ham sandwich at the Wailing Wall, more unusual than water-skiing in the Sahara. It is a popular uprising in a Middle Eastern oil state.
Why is this so unusual? Because in most Middle East states, power grows out of the barrel of a gun and out of a barrel of oil--and that combination is very hard to overthrow.
Oil is a key reason that democracy has had such a hard time emerging in the Middle East, except in one of the few states with no oil:Lebanon. Because once kings and dictators seize power, they can entrench themselves, not only by imprisioning their foes and killing their enemies, but also by buying off their people and using oil wealth to build hugh internal security apparatuses down or changed if enough Iranians vote as they did in 1979--in the street. That is what the regime fears the most.
There is only one precedent for an oil funded autocrat in the Middle east being toppled by a people's revolution, not by a military coup, and that was in..Iran. In 1979, the Iranian people rose up against the Shah of Iran in a Islamic Revolution spearheaded by the Ayatollah Khomeini. The shah controlled the Army, the SAVAK, secret-police and a vast network of oil-funded patronage. But at some point, enough people taking to the streets and defying his authority, and taking bullets as well, broke the shah's spell. The Islamic Revolution has learned from the shah. It has used it's oil wealth to buy off hugh swaths of the population with cheap housing, gov. jobs and subsidized food and gasoline. It's also used it's crude oil to erect a vast military force--namely the Revolutionary Guard and the Bbasij militia-to keep itself in power.
Therfore, the big question in Iran today is: Can the green revolution led by Mr. Hussein Moussavi, and backed by masses of street protesters, do the Islamic regime what Khomeini and the Iranian did to the shah's regime--break it's spell so all it's barrels and bullets become meaningless? Iran's ruling mullahs werre always ruthless. But they disguised it with a bit with faux elections. I says faux elections, because while the regime may have counted the votes accurately, it so tightned the of who could run. The choices were dark black and light black.
What happened this time is that the anger at the regime had reached such a level--because of near 20% unemployment and a rising youth population, tired of seeing it's life's options limited by the theocrats--that given a choice between dark black regime candidate and a light-black regime candidate, millions of Iranians turned out for light black: Moussavi. Moussavi surely less liberal than most of his followers. But just his lighter shade of black attracted and unleased so much pent-up frustration and hope for change among Iranians that ehe became an independant candidate and thus, his votes simply could not be counted because they were not just a vote for him, but were a referendum against the entire regime.
But now, having voted with their ballots, Iranians who want change will have to vote again with their bodies. A regime like Iran's can only be brought down, or changed--in the street. That is what the regime fears the most, so they shoot their own people to try and squealch this rioting in their streets.
If the reformers want change, they are going to have to from a new leadership, lay out their vision for Iran, and keep voting in the streets--over and over and over. Only if they keep showing up with their bodies, and by doing saying to their regime "We cannot be bought and we will not be cowed" will their ballots be made to count.
I am rooting for them and fearing for them. Any real moderation of Iran's leadership would be hugely positive effect on the Middle East. But we and the reformers must have no illusions aobut bullets and barrels they are up against~
Thomas Friedman.. NEW YORK TIMES NEWS SERVICES
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I wonder, does a country like Finland or Sweden have the rampant poverty that you'll find in the US?
Man, people love to over-react... or react to the wrong things. I love when I read stuff like "Did Natasha Richardson die because of Canada's socialist health care system?"
People really need to take more time to educate themselves and spend less time listening to and being disproportionately influenced by people who clearly have their own agendas (aka, their fattening wallets).
Word. So true (sadly). To your question (not quite sure if it's hypothetical), but I know that Finland does still have some degree of poverty, particularly in the gypsy population. However, the welfare is much stronger so that few, to my knowledge, really starve (at least provided that they spend money on food rather than certain substances).
Sorry, haven't had time to answer to this earlier. Gypsies are in every country and they live quite well with all the wellfares they get from the state, they are still very much their own group even some of them try hard to work and go to study etc.
I dont' think we have much our own "poor", but beggers esp. from Romania come here and ...well they are a problem. Of course there are those who live with wellfares for some reason (sick, alcoholic etc.) but they still get healthcare, they get food - they may get food service (town pays their food and brings it home) One good example - in town next to my hometown, there is this old building that we call "a bumhouse" - there lives 2-3 of those oldermen, who are alcoholic - have been decades. Of of them was getting new glasses - when doc told him th eprice, he said "the hell I care, the town pays those - not me"
Anyways, I read the article also when it was published and it was... it was rather strange and.. I think we are doing damn well, I don't know does it just piss off US because the bad economy hit them so hard and here it hasn't been so bad.
Yes, we are evil country, because here women can be at home with their child, until the child is 3yrs old!
This the The Institution for the Finns. Dude it does everything (gives money to everything)
http://www.kela.fi/in/internet/english.nsf
Yeah, that was sort of my point. Don't dismiss the European systems as evil socialist policy unless you can prove that the US does a better job of looking after its own citizens. I rather enjoy the right wing attitude that by sending the troops off to foreign lands, they are protecting the security of its citizens back home... pfffft. They need to start at home and focus there.
Anyway... hopefully my facetiousness wasn't misunderstood when I first posted those comments above. I'm pretty far left, truth be told.
Anyway... hopefully my facetiousness wasn't misunderstood when I first posted those comments above. I'm pretty far left, truth be told.
myfuturecsi
Corpse
I'm tired of the US feeling everytime someone brings up the words 'universal health care' automatically the 'socialist' word gets thrown around.
As someone whose had health problems over the years, I shudder to think what life would have been like had I not lived in Canada and had our health care system. Many Canadians hold it very sacred and fight tooth and nail to keep it as we have our own group of "Republicans'in Canada who want to dismantle it.
As someone whose had health problems over the years, I shudder to think what life would have been like had I not lived in Canada and had our health care system. Many Canadians hold it very sacred and fight tooth and nail to keep it as we have our own group of "Republicans'in Canada who want to dismantle it.
Yeah, like it's a bad thing to be able to walk into any hospital and not have to worry about getting a hefty bill later. Ridiculous.
Ridiculous.- Status