World Politics

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by Jacquie, Jan 28, 2010.

  1. talkingtocactus

    talkingtocactus Coroner

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    ^ you did well at multiquotes! I'll reply properly when I'm at my computer tho...

    i don't mind the speed so much as the lack of checking that's being done, and also i think it's kind of wrong that the "big" nations (ie the ones that have always been in) have no financial scrutiny or at least less scrutiny than new members. as has been proved by spain, just because you're an established member, it doesn't mean you're doing well with your finances!

    actually i didn't have a problem with those - after all they haven't been as bankrupt or corrupt as greece which was a nation that went through a lot less scrutiny to join (which is my point above). bulgaria and romania were probably brought in partly because they needed the financial input as well as the financial output - their tourism industry is now doing well (bulgaria's is nothing short of booming) and it's probably been a good thing for them to join. i think the thing is about the different amounts of time, is that there were different circumstances. i think for the former soviet bloc especially a promotion of western culture and financial ways was probably needed sooner not later. and like i said these countries arean't the ones causing problems now really, it's the old, established ones like spain (definitely established), greece an ireland (both old and established relative to the soviet bloc nations)

    i don't think it's just their economy tho, it's also about what they can bring to europe, and how they can benefit from the things that go with membership like free movement and so on. it's about being more open as well as finance. which explains why these countries are growing (economically) so fast. budget tourism has made tallinn (and places like it, riga, for instance) very prosperous and ok, that's just the capital, but that kind of prosperity has a habit of spreading to the rest of the nation. damn, i sound like a capitalist :(

    agreed. i don't think we ever could be like the US, there's too much history at stake. and i think the generations that grow up having only known the eu as it is (approximately), ie with one currency, many member states and a good spirit of cooperation but a few problems too, can learn to manage it better in financial terms. it is a very new entity (when i was a kid it didn't really exist) so of course there are teething problems but i think on the whole it's quite positive.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2011
  2. Ajbuckly

    Ajbuckly Lab Technician

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    Now that will be the day: Lisa...ahemm...Talking to Cactus = damn, i sound like a capitalist :(:p

    But IMO EU is still suffering from: We want a Union but don´t really know which sort of Union. Some members would like the package American style. And some oppose(sp?) any sort of Union. And as such not just membercountries but also political parties within the nations. Usually right - winged parties.

    But if trade is not put up front and center in Europe then we will loose to Asia or US as we have soo little of interest to anyone =export. AND if growth as in job - creation is the most important thing right now - then something is rotten in the state of EU. Yes education and enlightment(?) is important but at the moment we educate more and more youngst into unemployment.

    So where you do "see" the niche in which we/EU can find growth?

    PS Just "saw" "In to the Storm?" --- the one about Churchill(sp?). Did not he was so conservative but great movie. The Brown/Blair movie better. IMO
     
  3. Desertwind

    Desertwind Head of the Day Shift

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  4. talkingtocactus

    talkingtocactus Coroner

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    haha, yeah, i'm closer to marxism than capitalism!

    i think that's very true, i think people went into it thinking that it'd be good for trade but without really thinking of how it might pan out in the future, and that's a problem. it's also what makes it so different from the US of A - when that was begun, there was a very clear idea of where they wanted it to go and how they wanted it to work, whereas in europe i think that was lacking.

    yep, totally agree!

    well that's a tough one for europe and the us - the big euro nations and the us all made the same economic mistake, imho - we sold off our industry (mostly under the conservative govts in the 70s/80s) to try to make bigger short term profits. that created massive joblessness everywhere, an entire generation seeing government as bad because it sold off industry and put them out of work in favour of investment, and no real avenues for making money fast in any future recession. industry and new deal stuff was what sorted that out after the great depression (and here too) but now we western nations have no industry because we gave in to the rise in chinese/indian/far eastern production (which is probably of a lower quality, has far more dangerous or insanitary working conditions, but is cheaper) we have nothing to produce - and production is what makes jobs and money. so basically we all screwed ourselves. well done conservative governments!

    i don't think i've seen that. churchill was quite conservative but then i think that's another thing with things like the eu (and definitely something that's an issue in the US right now) which is that the world has changed since churchill. before WWII even relatively liberal views were still fairly conservative by modern stands, imho, and so society was relatively cohesive. for instance even liberals in the past were quite oppressive of women's rights, gay rights etc. the world has changed *so* fast in the last 50 years or so that those ideas don't fit with it any more. the question is do you change your ideas to fit changes in society (liberal/progressive) or do you try to make society go back to how it was so it fits with your ideas (conservative)? personally i'd take the liberal route every time.
     
  5. Ajbuckly

    Ajbuckly Lab Technician

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    LOL I haven´t figured out that multiquoting yet. Bummer
    As to the above couldn´t agree more. TVs -cars and berries(frossen berries here are from China). We are debating at the moment: a brigde or tunnel. Tunnel = work places stay here. Brigde = work goes to China as both steel and pay is cheaper. Costs including transport. :wtf::wtf::wtf:.
    So flying in steel or sailing from China is considered.

    But just hear on the radio that bacis of most economic growth is from farmming. And if Europe is any thing then it has to farming. Add to that the biodiesel engine. Why not cut a bit of the gas/dependence and devlope new means of olie? WEll 1. internationale politics overrides that one. Make us independ and loose fellow allies in oil producing countries. 2. Norway, Uk and DK makes money off the North Sea and natural gasses. And the Soviet Union makes off their lines. Could the ecomic status tolerate biofuel?

    But then what???
    Sorry spelling is way off. But I am really frustrated when it comes to the topic
     
  6. talkingtocactus

    talkingtocactus Coroner

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    ^ it's quite straightforward really, just takes a bit of getting the hang of :) click multi quote for each post you want to quote then within the
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2011
  7. Desertwind

    Desertwind Head of the Day Shift

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  8. Desertwind

    Desertwind Head of the Day Shift

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    42 MILLION people tuned into watch President Obama's State Of The Union speech on Tuesday. He spoke for over an hour, and said all the right things. An amazing orator~

    Some news of what's going on today~

    http://www.aolnews.com/category/politics/
     
  9. PerfectAnomaly

    PerfectAnomaly Resident Smart Ass

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    It's nice to see the priority of the House GOP is to be a bunch of misogynistic assholes.

    House GOP's Plan to Redefine Rape

    Congratulations, America, these are the idiots you voted into power in the House.
     
  10. talkingtocactus

    talkingtocactus Coroner

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    ^ yeah that really is bad, it makes me sad & angry in equal measure, and if it goes through it'll be a massive step backwards.

    some crazy stuff going down in egypt too, in the wake of tunisia. wonder if this is the beginning of the end for several mid-eastern regimes...
     
  11. Ajbuckly

    Ajbuckly Lab Technician

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    Well without someone to form a new vision for Egypt will the international comunity take over and thereby create more trouble or will it all stop with the military take over? Tanks lining(sp?) at Sharmel Shik at the moment?

    As for our economic debate even Obama says: Freeze public spending and raise education?

    But if there is no growth in jobs and economy where are people to get a job? Is westen economy Titanic?
     
  12. Ducky

    Ducky Master of the Moos Moderator

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    Erm, Soviet Union? Hasn't existed for 20yrs. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

    I was wondering the biofuel. Like with cars we now have 95E10 - I mean, I've seen stuff that it never worked in US, ruined cars there so is it really solution? Of course I think in use they used maize so I wonder if it works in different.

    Btw, when I visited Germany, the biogas, green energy and stuff is HUGE there, I wonder when it spreads here.
     
  13. talkingtocactus

    talkingtocactus Coroner

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    i don't know what'll happen but i think america are too quick to get involved. the problem is nations are supposed to have sovereignty and that sovereignty isn't supposed to be interfered with by other nations unless there is a threat of war or there's previous invitation etc. what happens within a nation's borders should be up to that nation. but because the us has been involved so deeply in the mid-east (because of oil, and by the way this goes just as much for the uk) it has made ties that would cause disaster in the us if they get broken, and so they routinely interfere in sovereign matters when it's frankly none of their business. and that is how colonialism and imperialism happened and if you look at the places that were colonised by the british empire, how they have fared since then ain't pretty on the whole. i think the us (and the uk) need to take a step back on some of these issues. of course they can't because they'd lose their precious black gold.

    also it's tough because the us put so many of these people in power - obama has been saying the us supports the democratic freedoms of the egyptian people, but who's funded the mubarak government for most of its duration? just like bush said saddam had to be stopped, but who gave saddam the means to be a tyrant? just like bush said bin laden had to be stopped, but who gave bin laden money and weapons for years? this is the crux of the problem for me - it's short term thinking; if the us (and the uk although largely just as the us' bitch) keeps making deals with (and exploiting) dodgy regimes in order to get oil discounts, then those dodgy regimes (who know they're being expolited) will keep returning to bite the west hard on the arse.

    excuse the rant but if the middle east is ever to be sorted then us foreign policy since world war 2 is a huge culprit and needs to realise its mistakes and either help in a more understanding way (ie not painting the mid easterners as "the other") and/or back off. is it really any surprise the mid east is so angry?

    good question :S

    but if putin had his way it would!

    i don't think it'll ever take off in the states really because they are so dependent on oil, addicted to it, and that's because oil makes more money than biofuel. that's why the electric car industry, which came about a long time ago, was killed off by the petroleum industry and is only just re-emerging. maybe if the states hits a huge crisis and suddenly can't get oil because the mid-east shuts it out or the stocks under alaska run out or something, but til then? no way.

    i think in europe it's more likely - over here we are less dependent on oil, more aware of environmental concerns and more keen to find alternatives. which is good :D

    btw i feel like i've been sounding really negative about the us in this post, i'm not, i love it generally, but dear god the foreign policy is shocking....
     
  14. Desertwind

    Desertwind Head of the Day Shift

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    Now on our news here, the militia has released 10,000 prisoners from jail to roam free in the streets.. great.. what's next? I had no idea that Mubarak was 85, I thought he was like 65:eek:

    http://www.aolnews.com/category/politics/
     
  15. talkingtocactus

    talkingtocactus Coroner

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    i don't really see the problem in releasing prisoners, it depends on what kind they are and i'm pretty sure it's unlikely they're the violent kind. both our nations have vastly overcrowded prisons because, frankly, we keep putting people in there that don't belong there. people who lie on insurance papers or tax (unless of course they're billionaires or corporations in which case tax evasion is just fine) or who commit relatively minor fraud or petty robbery etc really don't belong in jail, they should be getting community service and/or hefty fines.

    the prison system (including comm service and fining) is supposed to be for rehabilitation more than punishment (ha, there speaks a lefty) and putting minor, non violent offenders inside is a total waste of resources, financially speaking (especially as fines could generate revenue for the system) and in terms of actual space.

    also there are far too many people in jail who are seriously mentally ill and therefore have mitigating factors for their crimes. of course they should be punished and rehabilitated but if they have any serious mental illness (ie schizophrenia, bipolar, personality disorder* etc) then a secure hospital is the place for them, not a jail where the punishment aspect may well fall on deaf ears anyway without psychiatric input.

    the thing is unless they've released hardcore rapists, murders, child abusers etc, i think the idea of them roaming the streets has less impact "ohnoez! the people who told a lie on an insurance claim or stole some groceries from walmart are coming to get us!"

    if releasing a few (and compared to the size of your jailed population, 10,000 is a few) petty offenders makes more space for more effective rehab AND punishment of the really violent, nasty, sadistic criminals, then it's not a bad idea.

    * the exception to this being psychopaths. psychopathy is generally known as sociopathy/antisocial personality disorder these days and technically is classed as a PD. however given that it's seen as untreatable and its main feature is lack of remorse (owing to a lack of emotive capability) rehabilitation is likely to be impossible. however that means punishment is too (if you don't even know you've done wrong, how will punishment impact you?). the issue in those cases is that with no remorse/sense of right or wrong, there's a higher propensity to reoffend and thus psychopaths should be kept in jail in order to prevent reoffending.


    and yes, mubarak looks younger than he is, that black hair dye does some weird things ;)
     

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