World Politics

Okay... any thoughts about Ireland?

Will Spain and Portugal fall too?

What pisses me off that people create this huge EMU and then they LIE to make their economics look better and then it's WHOOPS. And it's not about you anymore. It's about the whole damn EU and its eurocountries.

And in FInland it pisses me off that social democrats (that were PM party when we joined EU and they were so driven to get to EMU and euro as soon as possible etc.) dare to OPPOSE money given to help Ireland.

We just have to take all this crap. Responsibility that came with the currency.

Tho I do miss our mark <3
 
Ducky said:
Okay... any thoughts about Ireland?
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only that they're kinda screwed at hte moment and it's a real shame that after fighting so hard to win their sovereignty from evil oppressors (that would be us, the british) they are now losing it thanks to mismanagment by their government and banking sector. i think their recent newspaper headline pretty neatly expressed how the irish feel about it...

irish_star_useless_gobshites.jpg


CharlieInTheBox said:
I am absolutely appalled by this:

Senate Republicans block repeal of "Don't Ask; Don't Tell."
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i am too.

i'm also appalled at the behaviour of the lib dems here in britain, making the most spectacular u-turn we've seen in a long time, voting with the tories for massive hikes in university fees *and* big cuts to school education. i'm also massively proud of all the student and school protestors who've been marching and protesting in london and other cities. keep up the good work guys!
 
POLL:pRESIDENT OBAMA TOPS THE MOST-ADMIRED LIST:bolian:

Washington.. For the 3rd straight year, President Barack Obama ranks as the man most admired by people living in the U.S., according the an annual USA Today-Gallup poll. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is the most admired woman for the 9th straight year in a row, edging out former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin and TV host Oprah Winfrey, as she did last year. The poll, released Monday, asked respondents what man and what woman, living anywhere in the world, they admired the most. Rankings from 1-10 were based on total mentions and reported in percentages~

News Services~
 
Ducky said:
Okay... any thoughts about Ireland?

Will Spain and Portugal fall too?

What pisses me off that people create this huge EMU and then they LIE to make their economics look better and then it's WHOOPS. And it's not about you anymore. It's about the whole damn EU and its eurocountries.

And in FInland it pisses me off that social democrats (that were PM party when we joined EU and they were so driven to get to EMU and euro as soon as possible etc.) dare to OPPOSE money given to help Ireland.

We just have to take all this crap. Responsibility that came with the currency.

Tho I do miss our mark <3
Click to expand...

Well ....next move by the EU choose your own hospital if so and so is granted by your own government.

But never the less....now and in furture I think we have more in commen then sperates us. Would u and lisa help me make a list?

I will start same currency (for some) - free movenment of workforce and police cooperation. Perhaps you gals can help me: Which Europen Country is not based on Noeliberalist mentality?? Which as such brings forward the
"lifelong learing" concept that sweeps through EU and the educational system? Even Socialdemocrates aorund the EU repeat neoliberalistic sayings.
 
ducky said:
What pisses me off that people create this huge EMU and then they LIE to make their economics look better and then it's WHOOPS. And it's not about you anymore. It's about the whole damn EU and its eurocountries.
Click to expand...

generally i'm pro-european... erm... cooperation i guess, but i have to confess this euro crisis makes me quite glad we kept our pound. i think staying out of the eurozone completely (as many right wingers here want) is commercial suicide, but i think maybe we got a lucky escape on the single currency. we've had to help bailout ireland, but we have ties with ireland (ie we oppressed them for centuries, it's about time we tried helping them).

i don't know what will happen if spain or portugal go (especially as i read somewhere that greece's situation is worse than they thought) but it's looking extremely precarious...

Well ....next move by the EU choose your own hospital if so and so is granted by your own government.
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yep here too. blair and brown's "labour" government were pushing for it (ha, so far from labour it's scary/funny) and now the con-dem coalition are really going for it. it's pretty sad, the NHS is one thing the uk has to be really proud of. sure it doesn't always work brilliantly, it has flaws, it is problematic sometimes but all systems are, and i think having universal healthcare is something we should be very proud of. but apparently they want to pull it apart.

But never the less....now and in furture I think we have more in commen then sperates us. Would u and lisa help me make a list?
Click to expand...

i agree, globalisation is making the differences between nations so much smaller. we all still have our traditional culture which is good, but commerce is fairly standardised, those that don't fit in have to try or risk being shut out, and the same for politics as there are so many global issues now (ie islamist terrorism doesn't just affect one nation or even one part of the world, the palestine issue involves a lot of nations far from palestine, us dominance affects everyone, and then there are less man made things like climate change, pollution, overpopulation etc).

i guess you meant me (i've changed my name) but yes!

Perhaps you gals can help me: Which Europen Country is not based on Noeliberalist mentality?? Which as such brings forward the
"lifelong learing" concept that sweeps through EU and the educational system? Even Socialdemocrates aorund the EU repeat neoliberalistic sayings.
Click to expand...

that's a very good question. i think some (france, the uk, germany) have, despite having had different political structures (ie monarchy, republic, socialist, conservative etc) are pretty much based on neoliberalism. i think maybe the former soviet bloc nations are an exception, given that for so long they were under feudalism and then sovietism but i think the influence of neoliberalist nations is being felt there. god, i'd have to go back to my notes from my politics course (i did 2 years of social policy which was all this stuff, but it was about 5 years ago so i can't remember it well!)
 
Hi Lisa...new name .. no wonder I couldn´t find you on members list:lol:

Well The whole deal makes me go:vulcan:. Allright if I will buy into: All for one and one for all, then how:

The American style one president and a bunch of governers or

Same rules in all states and changing by country president as now?

I fear most the likes of Berloconi(sp?). As Italy is a democracy then he is what the majority wants but how would I like or feel in an European nation ruled by him?

I think in the end - in 30 -40 years time we will agree on:
the climate - police (fight of terror) - and social security (most Europeans left and right) "fear" the American pay for care system but will accept people with money to get special care.

We would differ still on humor(sp?) and abortion IMO as we are split between the "loose" and the "hard" christian basic system in most European Countries. (I wonder how Ireland will react to free hospital choice as a option?)

Where would we/EU like to see growth post crisis?

Sweden for some reason is showing growth rates in higher numbers then expected post crisis. Good for them should we adapt Swedish politics?
Should we or Would we accept poor areas as XXX and rich places like Sweden?
 
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Ajbuckly said:
The American style one president and a bunch of governers or

Same rules in all states and changing by country president as now?
Click to expand...

i don't think that's really likely tho, each nation is too individualistic. i think it's different from the us where they were pretty much set up that way from the start (i realise not quite from the start but from very early on, the us is a very young nation) - with the goal of having several states with their own state law but united in federalism in certain areas (defence, immigration etc). even at the time of the constitution and even after the civil war when some states weren't part of the union, there's always been a drive in the states to have a cohesive nation, albeit divided into states. even if you are loyal to your state, you have to pledge loyalty to the usa as an entity.

europe is very different, we're all such old nations, we can't just wipe out or ignore thousands of years of history. even if we do have a combined entity for commercial and legal purposes, we'll never have the same situation. we're not setting up a new country, we're not all coming into europe from other places and with a need to unify, there's not that need for cohesion that the us has had from the start.

we're all separate, and have been for centuries so even if we have a federalised influence over certain areas (like human rights, certain other legal issues, financial and immigration controls etc) we'll never have that same ethos of "we're founding a new area and we need to make the rules", we all have our own rules already and because they're so old and ingrained i doubt they'll ever be superseded by federalism. and tbh even if they were i'm not sure that'd be so bad.

I fear most the likes of Berloconi(sp?). As Italy is a democracy then he is what the majority wants but how would I like or feel in an European nation ruled by him?
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i think we ALL fear berlusconi. yes, he's voted by the majority but that's because he has such a successful propaganda campaign. actually in some ways italy is similar to the us; its news media are so owned by corporate and government interests (and especially in italy's case that's the same thing) that the people don't have so much chance to make up their own minds, to hear both sides of the stories. but i think the chances of berlusconi becoming eu president are very small. even in italy he's deeply unpopular with the media and other politicians, and outside italy even more so. i think many politicians think he's an embarrassment.

also i think the eu has some sense when it comes to choosing the leader - last time they could've gone for blair (who really wanted it) but didn't because he was too flashy, too well known, too divisive. van rompuy was a choice many people thought was silly because no one had really heard of him (and because his name is a slang term for sex in the uk) but actually he's been a good choice, he's qualified, intelligent, discreet and those are important qualities.

I think in the end - in 30 -40 years time we will agree on:
the climate - police (fight of terror) - and social security (most Europeans left and right) "fear" the American pay for care system but will accept people with money to get special care.
Click to expand...

i think many people here fear the us healthcare system, but that still seems to be the way many of our governments want to go. i guess it's true that $$$ >>> people.

i doubt these big issues will ever be agreed on - the healthcare debate's been going on for centuries. climate change is newer but so deeply divisive. i doubt all the evidence in the world could change some people's minds and ultimately as long as oil makes megabucks, they don't even want to change their minds.

as for the war on terror - well, that's a tough one because it plays into so many other things, like immigration, fear of anyone "other", racism, religious conflict, oil, history, pretty much everything. i think now it's been started it'll take a LOT to stop it. which is really really sad.

We would differ still on humor(sp?) and abortion IMO as we are split between the "loose" and the "hard" christian basic system in most European Countries. (I wonder how Ireland will react to free hospital choice as a option?)
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humor? like comedy?

as for abortion that's another one that will always split people - it has been doing so for hundreds of years. i think ireland would react surprisingly as i know the younger generation there are much more liberal and less influenced by the catholic past.

personally i think ALL these issues come down to religion one way or another - religious influence infiltrates everything from jobs to salaries, to how we raise kids, to war, to racism, to healthcare, to territorial disputes, to, well, everything, really. i'm NOT a fan of religion. i'm generally a pretty tolerant (and very liberal) person but if i could wave a magic wand (ha, the irony!) and obliterate religion, i would do so in a second. it does nothing but damage to society.

Sweden for some reason is showing growth rates in higher numbers then expected post crisis. Good for them should we adapt Swedish politics?
Should we or Would we accept poor areas as XXX and rich places like Sweden?
Click to expand...

i think sweden were doing well in terms of satisfaction of the people, they had good morale, good equality in terms of gender/politics, good healthcare etc, but the recent racist problems there (or was that norway? either way, they have similar systems) show a much darker side. then again, we have racist problems in the uk, and they most certainly do in the us.
 
Let's see how I deal with this multiquoting :p

talkingtocactus said:
ducky said:
What pisses me off that people create this huge EMU and then they LIE to make their economics look better and then it's WHOOPS. And it's not about you anymore. It's about the whole damn EU and its eurocountries.
Click to expand...

generally i'm pro-european... erm... cooperation i guess, but i have to confess this euro crisis makes me quite glad we kept our pound. i think staying out of the eurozone completely (as many right wingers here want) is commercial suicide, but i think maybe we got a lucky escape on the single currency. we've had to help bailout ireland, but we have ties with ireland (ie we oppressed them for centuries, it's about time we tried helping them).
Click to expand...

I'm not against EU itself (except huge piles of forms I have to fill every spring) but the speed really pisses me off.

Seriously, on what grounds there was to take Bulgaria and Romania tu EU? And with Euro, how way too fast it has spread. We've dealt well because depression at early 90s was horrible here and we learnt our lesson damn well. I just cannot understand when it's taken decades countries to form themselves to be what they are, we try to put everything together in short time.

Like now Estonia joined the EU. The country is basicly bankrupt (well it was 2 yrs ago at least) I cannot understand how economy like that can be accepted. Of course former Soviet Countries have potential to grow and develop in a very different way and e.g in Tallinn I've seen such a huge progress in past 10 years (visited there first in 2000, 2nd time 2006 and then 2008) And at least the capital has changed.
One farmer joked, that in the 1900s they were occupied by Russians, in the 2000s they are occupied by Finns (kind of rude to compare us to Russians, after all it's a damn lots of money and damn lots of construction that we've brought to that country)

Erm, anyways. EU is here to stay and I think once new generations come to adulthood, it (hopefully) get easier. Of course we'll never ever ever be United States of Europe. Oh god no.

Ajbuckly said:
Well The whole deal makes me go:vulcan:. Allright if I will buy into: All for one and one for all, then how:

The American style one president and a bunch of governers or

Same rules in all states and changing by country president as now?

I fear most the likes of Berloconi(sp?). As Italy is a democracy then he is what the majority wants but how would I like or feel in an European nation ruled by him?
Click to expand...

I think everyone is afraid someone like Berlusconi would rule the Europe :lol: :lol: [I think Finns still haven't forgot his insults towards Finnish food (the worst after British :p ) and the fact that we lost erm some Food Safety departmentofficesomethingsomething]

IMO the current way is good. Who leads the foreing policies (we've argued between President and Prime Minister, since we still have strong President but I think they are taking away more of his/hers power :p ) they can act together and make it work, I have no doubt. If you are PM (of chancellor or whatever) of your country, you should be strong enough to represent your own country at EU and find the same note with the others.
 
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