Your Thoughts on the upcoming Danny/Lindsay development (SPOILERS!!!)

[jolein]

Re: Your Thoughts on the upcoming Danny/Lindsay development (SPOILERS!

And on the cheating issue, if Danny and Lindsay were not together in some capacity, why did he make up excuses about her birthday, if they were not together, why would he feel the need to explain himself. Danny IMO was that caught up in his own grief and guilt, with no regard for whom he hurt in the long run. Lindsay or Rikki.

Well,the fact that she almost bite his head off when he came in,i`m not suprised he felt the need to make excuses.
Besides that,since when is forgetting a birthday,the same as being in a serious relationship.

Yes,he was grieving and feeling guilty but as far as I can see the only who made sense to be hurted was Rikki cause she lost her son but she doesn`t blame Danny.
Yet,her is Lindsay who is supposely his friend and in her mind probally her bf and she just barks at him for forgetting her birthday.
If I was Lindsay best friend and she would tell me that she did that to a guy who feels guilty,I would as a woman slapp her face for being an insensitive whining bitch and ask her were her brain is.

because

Rikki wasn't stupid. She could see that what was going on between them was only because of his guilt over Ruebens death and some day when that subsided he would see things differently, but by then it could be too late for him and Lindsay, and like I said, I think in part thats why she left. She didn't want to be a part of Danny ruining the one good thing he had in his life.

Uhm,were is it said that Rikki knows about Lindsay?
Cause I never seen in one episode involving Rikki that Danny mentioned her to Rikki.

Forgiveness=Strength not weakness. Lindsay had enough maturity to realise why Danny did what he did. So she forgave him, and gave him a second chance. Dont know how that = weak or insensitive.

No,forgiveness isn`t a weakness but the fact that she chewed him out first and he had to crawll before she forgive him shows that she isn`t a very mature character.

I kind of have a feeling a big part of the reason that that decision wasn't made in this case is because TPTB figured it could be a great storyline for Danny, and that people would be more interested in Danny's reaction to being a father than anything else. Like I've said before, we still don't know if Rikki was meant to return pregnant or not, but if she was, I have a feeling that was because there was interest in seeing Danny as a father. So in that regard, shifting the storyline from Rikki to Lindsay isn't a big deal--if Danny as a dad is the endgame, it's essentially the same difference

I think the fact that Danny is the father is the saving for this storyline cause I don`t see Lindsay as mature enough to juggle having a baby and work.
Yes,I know she is suppose to be in here thirties but that doesn`t mean that she is a right person to have a baby.

 

[Faylinn]

Re: Your Thoughts on the upcoming Danny/Lindsay development (SPOILERS!

ETA: Me = slow. I took forever to type this and jolein posted first - so I think some of my points are repetitive. Whoops.

melanie33 said:

Apart from the whole Rueben drama, I cant see what issues D and L had as a couple.

A big issue is no real, clear, definitive proof beyond some scattered scenes and interview comments from TPTB that they were a 'couple' to begin with. You're basing all of your thoughts and assumptions on the idea that they were together and it was a known fact. Unfortunately, not everybody else is on the same page with you. Those few scenes don't mean the same thing to every viewer.

Rikki wasn't stupid. She could see that what was going on between them was only because of his guilt over Ruebens death and some day when that subsided he would see things differently, but by then it could be too late for him and Lindsay, and like I said, I think in part thats why she left. She didn't want to be a part of Danny ruining the one good thing he had in his life.

I'm really not going to make the leap between 'Rikki knew what they were doing was potentially wrong' and 'Rikki just didn't want Danny to lose Lindsay'. Just as there's nothing onscreen to prove that Lindsay knew about Rikki, there's also nothing to indicate that Rikki knew about Lindsay. Some supposed script page isn't going to cut it. Maybe when Rikki comes back she'll say something to indicate she knew about Lindsay, maybe not - at this point, it's far from definite.

He cant always be the emo, hot headed, playboy. Especially on a TV show, that becomes old really quick.

Yeah, well major changes in the personality of an extremely popular character can be a tricky thing. People don't always want to see the change. How many people are still missing the way Greg Sanders used to be on CSI? A lot of people like Danny as the hot-headed CSI - straight-and-narrow Husband of the Year isn't quite so appealing for a lot of those same people.

And seriously a baby can ruin a whole show. The whole 16 million are going to stop watching, because two characters are going to become parents.! Come on really!!.

Most of us won't stop watching either, but we're still going to form opinions that might not be 100% positive. I think we all know that we're just talking on a message board - that doesn't disqualify our opinions in the discussion at hand.

The bigger issue isn't whether people will drop the show because Lindsay gets pregnant - the issue is whether people will stick with the show if it's not handled well, if it takes up too much time, etc. Considering the stellar handling of D/L so far, I think people have a right to be a bit worried that things with this baby might negatively impact the show. There are a ton of crime dramas out there, and if NY doesn't maintain the right balance, people can and will change the channel (mostly the more casual viewers - fans like us aren't the casual viewers that switch the channel halfway through the episode and cause ratings to go down in the second half-hour a lot of the time). The ratings are improving now, but there are any number of things that could change that. Personally, I don't particularly want a hasty and potentially ill-thought-out plotline involving the show's weakest character (IMO) to put the show on shaky ground. Maybe it will, maybe it won't - only time will tell. Either way, I don't feel confident that a D/L baby is a "good thing for CSI: NY", to quote the poll question.

 

[Kimmychu]

Re: Your Thoughts on the upcoming Danny/Lindsay development (SPOILERS!

For the record, the Right Next Door script at the Writer's Guild library is a revised shooting draft, NOT a final shooting script. TPTB would not be so foolish as to leave final shooting scripts for recent episodes for the public to see, especially not those that will reveal anything for upcoming major storylines. Therefore, to make speculations and assumptions based on that draft would be, well, a waste of time. Not to mention make inaccurate ones too.

Sure, forgiveness is strength, but I think Lindsay's yet to forgive him in the true sense of the word. She basically treated him like dirt for weeks to make him suffer for slighting her, and when he called her up and apologized, she never said anything about forgiving him. All she did was imply/remind him yet again that he slighted her and she didn't deserve it simply because she 'loves' him. 'Do you know how hard it is to love you?' Wow, way to kick a guy down when he's already at his lowest. Hey Lindsay, just because you 'love' someone doesn't mean you get to treat said person like crap and expect everything should go exactly your way solely because of how you feel.

You want to know what forgiveness is really like? Just take a good look at the scenes between Danny and Rikki in episode 4x16 and 4x19. That's what forgiveness is truly about.

He cant always be the emo, hot headed, playboy. Especially on a TV show, that becomes old really quick.

Danny being the pathetic lapdog with no balls became old even quicker, to the point people have stopped watching the show because it turned them off so much. Between emo-hotheaded-exciting!Danny and pathetic-lapdog!Danny ... yeah, it's a no-brainer choice there.

 

[racefh853629]

Re: Your Thoughts on the upcoming Danny/Lindsay development (SPOILERS!

And on the cheating issue, if Danny and Lindsay were not together in some capacity, why did he make up excuses about her birthday, if they were not together, why would he feel the need to explain himself.

I don't know about you, but I get upset when my friends forget my birthday, and they see me all the time. It's one thing if I'm not with them every day, but when I am, I get upset. I'm not dating them, but if they're my friend and I see them every day and work with them, I get a little upset. Maybe that's just me, though.

And I don't remember him explaining himself all that much...

And no, a baby isnt a quick fix, but sometimes it makes you face up to your own personal issues and try to resolve them. And I am talking about their seperate personal issues not their issues as a couple. Saying that, all relationships have issues at some time or another, they all go through ups and downs. We are not perfect, relationships are not perfect, thats a part of life.

Sometimes, but not all the time. A lot of people have the baby and still have their own issues that they don't resolve. They aren't perfect, relationships aren't perfect, that's true. But, as of yet, we still haven't seen any solid proof that they're together at all. If they were together, there'd be something. Calleigh and Eric in Miami are more together than Danny and Lindsay, and Calleigh and Eric aren't there yet.

Personal issues- if Lindsay matures because of a baby, that'd be great, because right now she's the most immature CSI out there. Danny may learn more about healthy relationships, and that might be good for him. But, Lindsay's track record indicates that she's more likely to continue on her path with a slight shift, and Danny will still seek out pain because he knows nothing better.

His behaviour in regards to Lindsay is not out of the norm for him, it fits with his character perfectly IMO

I actually see this, but I think that we see this from two different ways. I see this as Danny doesn't like hurting people, and so he does what he thinks is best to make everyone else happy. He tries to be altruistic in his own screwed up way, so essentially he will do and say anything to make someone happy. Also, he uses sex to make people happy.

He has a savior complex, in that he wants to save people from pain. He wants to make them feel better, wants to do something to bring them up, even if it's at a cost to him. We saw this with Lindsay's issue in season 3. He did the same thing with Adam in Snow Day. He would rather everyone be happy, even if it means he's selling himself short.

 

[kinkapoodles]

Re: Your Thoughts on the upcoming Danny/Lindsay development (SPOILERS!

Hmm..I did some checking into that Writers Guild Library and they indeed do have A script for RND but it is NOT the Final Shooting Script which means that anything before the Final Shooting Script could have been changed and whether or not the writers intended for Rikki to know about Lindsay, it was never mentioned onscreen so I don't see how anything in any script except the Final Shooting Script could count.

And on the cheating issue, if Danny and Lindsay were not together in some capacity, why did he make up excuses about her birthday, if they were not together, why would he feel the need to explain himself.

Peter Lenkov said himself that Danny didn't cheat so I don't understand why this is still being brought up. Also, we don't know when her birthday was or if they'd patched things up since then since TPTB can't seem to make up their minds. It's not unheard of for a someone to get upset over an on again off again boyfriend to forget a birthday and Lindsay is just selfish enough to only think of herself by whining about Danny forgetting it. If he felt the need to explain himself it was because she made him feel like he had to explain himself to keep her from getting more pissed off.

The only issues between D and L I saw were caused by Rubens death.

A ten year old boy died who was in Danny's care but that doesn't seem to matter. Danny blamed himself for Ruben's death but that doesn't seem to matter either. Everything that happens to Danny does NOT have to involve Lindsay. The Ruben storyline was NOT about Lindsay. It was about Danny, Ruben, and Rikki. DL weren't together when this happened, per Peter Lenkov, so how could a child's death be blamed for issues
between DL?

The picture on Lindsays phone, its a couply thing to do.

It is NOT necessarily only a couple thing to do. It could have still been one-sided. I have a picture of Carmine on my phone and last time I checked, we weren't a couple. Also, it was clear that the picture of Danny on her phone was taken at work and Danny was just goofing off. It's odd that she didn't have a picture of him outside of work but just one of him acting goofy.

And Flack mentioning L being at the game with D instead of him, but Danny had peeved Lindsay off thats why F was there.

Flack did NOT mention Lindsay being at the game instead of him. He told Danny he should piss Lindsay off more often and Danny laughed at that comment and then Flack smiled at him. (See Kimmychu's banner)

Rikki wasn't stupid. She could see that what was going on between them was only because of his guilt over Ruebens death and some day when that subsided he would see things differently, but by then it could be too late for him and Lindsay, and like I said, I think in part thats why she left. She didn't want to be a part of Danny ruining the one good thing he had in his life.

Actually, Rikki and Danny both knew what was going on between them. They'd both stated at different times that it was just sex to ease the pain but it had nothing to do with DL. Again, not everything is about DL. Rikki didn't even know about Lindsay so why would that be the reason she left? And even if she did now about her (which she didn't), we can't assume that Rikki would think that Lindsay was the one good thing he had in his life. Danny didn't come off as thinking that way so why should Rikki?

And on to the whole Danny having no b***S. Come one, he is a man in his thirties. You mature, you fall in love, you want different things out of life. He cant always be the emo, hot headed, playboy. Especially on a TV show, that becomes old really quick.

And all this DL drama hasn't become old really quick? I'd had enough of it before the end of Season 2. Danny lost his balls because he let Lindsay walk all over him. Carmine even said that Danny was a punching bag for Lindsay in season 3. If DL had a good relationship, she would not have turned Danny into her own doormat (or punching bag). She would have treated him as her equal and with some respect.

About this pregnancy storyline, I believe that TPTB changed the direction they were going with DL once they found out Anna was pregnant. Peter Lenkov acknowledged that the storylines were changed because of her pregnancy. I still believe that they were moving away from DL. If they do indeed continue with this storyline, it is my hopes that DL will not get together just because there is a baby on the way. They can both be parents without being a couple. I find it hard to believe that Danny just suddenly fell in love with Lindsay but I'm sure it will be played out that way.

 

[JellyBelly]

Re: Your Thoughts on the upcoming Danny/Lindsay development (SPOILERS!

I guess we're all selective in what we take from the spoilers/things said by tptb, I include myself in that. I don't think PL actually said D/L weren't together as such, he said they had cooled or were on a 'down turn' he also said that Danny's guilt was the wedge between them. That to me suggests that they hadn't actually had the 'what are we?' , or the 'I can't do this right now' talk that generally couple's will have if they're broken up. Of course, their status also depends on what was going on between them before Ruben's death.

Unless it's shown that D/L weren't together, or tptb state that they weren't (which they haven't) then people will still think that Danny cheated, just as until they show they were together other people will think he didn't cheat. That's why it keeps coming up and will continue to do so.

I really don't see how people can seperate the D/R/R storyline from D/L. Yes, if they had shown D/L having broken up before Ruben died or before Danny 'hooked up' with Rikki then fair enough. But they didn't. The reason for that, I believe is because tptb like having the different camps, the continual debates and discusssions and the diversity of responses to this storyline. I for one, cannot seperate D/R/R from D/L because it has a direct impact. That's what tptb were going for imo. I understand that people who liked Rikki want that storyline to be separate but the fact is all guest stars who appear are there to impact on the main character's. The fact that tptb talked about D/R in the form of a D/L bump proves that imo.

As for the upcoming storyline, I really hope tptb appreciate what a hot potato they're holding. I'm sure they do, but they have to deal with it in a way that it can safely blend into the background and not detract from the show. Personally I believe that both Carmine and Anna can deal with it, my anxiety sits with the writers.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

Re: Your Thoughts on the upcoming Danny/Lindsay development (SPOILERS!

And on the cheating issue, if Danny and Lindsay were not together in some capacity, why did he make up excuses about her birthday, if they were not together, why would he feel the need to explain himself.

I don't know about you, but I get upset when my friends forget my birthday, and they see me all the time. It's one thing if I'm not with them every day, but when I am, I get upset. I'm not dating them, but if they're my friend and I see them every day and work with them, I get a little upset. Maybe that's just me, though.

And I don't remember him explaining himself all that much...

You're right, racingzombies; he didn't explain himself.

He pulled the "I'm a guy" card and tried to diffuse the situation as being not a big deal. Lindsay was making a big, honkin' deal out of it so he had to address it. That doesn't mean they were together. It means she expected acknowledgement of her birthday, didn't get it, got pissed about it and Danny gave her an excuse and tried to appease her.

Lindsay had a right to be hurt about Danny forgetting her birthday, but considering Danny's emotional state she should have been more understanding about why he may have forgotten it. Guilt over the death of a child trumps remembering a co-worker's/f*ckbuddy's/friend's/girlfriend's/whatever-they-are-because-it's-never-actually-been-defined's birthday and for Lindsay not to recognize that and cut Danny some slack was just .

 

[jolein]

Re: Your Thoughts on the upcoming Danny/Lindsay development (SPOILERS!

I really don't see how people can seperate the D/R/R storyline from D/L.

Because it is seperated from the whole D/L thing.
The only thing which made it connected for a moment was the phonecall between them when Rikki came out of Danny`s bedroom.
Other then that I personally never saw it has triangle.

I understand that people who liked Rikki want that storyline to be separate but the fact is all guest stars who appear are there to impact on the main character's. The fact that tptb talked about D/R in the form of a D/L bump proves that imo.

Well,it`s obvious,there for are there guest stars but in this case I feel it effected Danny more then it ever effected Lindsay.
The whole D/R relationship would have effected Lindsay if she knew about Rikki but up untill now she doesn`t know about her and I have my doubts that she ever will find out about that.
Maybe I missed that cause i`m not up to date with everything but were did they stated that D/R was the bump for D/L.
As far as I read they never said anything,specific.

 

[Top41]

Re: Your Thoughts on the upcoming Danny/Lindsay development (SPOILERS!

So much great stuff to respond to here, but I only have a few minutes, so this will be quick!

The whole Lindsay pushing Danny away in LRC, I think that showed she did care about Danny. She didnt want to get involved with him while she had issues going on in her life, why get involved with him, when she couldn't invest her all in it.

Caring about somebody is walking away while he's still speaking, saying he'll be there for you if you need anything? Caring about somebody is manipulating him into taking an unpleasant job because you don't want to deal with it? Caring about somebody is taking off without saying goodbye or giving an explanation? Or, post relationship...not making much of an effort to talk to him after he's suffered a devastating loss? Guilt-tripping him over forgetting your birthday a few weeks after that loss? Refusing to speak to him after you've had your say? Lindsay always, always, always puts herself first. That's not caring.

And on the cheating issue, if Danny and Lindsay were not together in some capacity, why did he make up excuses about her birthday, if they were not together, why would he feel the need to explain himself.

Danny IMO was that consumed with grief and guilt, he didnt realise what he doing was hurting both women. Lindsay and Rikki. Lindsay because he cheated, Rikki because he made her a part of the destruction of that relationship.

Rikki just lost her son. She didn't know about Lindsay. I think Rikki and Danny actually helped each other, in a kind of screwed up way.

And on to the whole Danny having no b***S. Come one, he is a man in his thirties. You mature, you fall in love, you want different things out of life. He cant always be the emo, hot headed, playboy. Especially on a TV show, that becomes old really quick.

The whole 'playboy' label is so erroneous. We've never seen anything like that from Danny.

His behaviour in regards to Lindsay is not out of the norm for him, it fits with his character perfectly IMO

I actually see this, but I think that we see this from two different ways. I see this as Danny doesn't like hurting people, and so he does what he thinks is best to make everyone else happy. He tries to be altruistic in his own screwed up way, so essentially he will do and say anything to make someone happy. Also, he uses sex to make people happy.

He has a savior complex, in that he wants to save people from pain. He wants to make them feel better, wants to do something to bring them up, even if it's at a cost to him. We saw this with Lindsay's issue in season 3. He did the same thing with Adam in Snow Day. He would rather everyone be happy, even if it means he's selling himself short.

Agreed. I don't think Danny's been out of character with Lindsay per se, but it sure makes him look like a total doormat and her like a manipulator when they do their little dance where she treats him like crap and he comes running.

Well,it`s obvious,there for are there guest stars but in this case I feel it effected Danny more then it ever effected Lindsay.
The whole D/R relationship would have effected Lindsay if she knew about Rikki but up untill now she doesn`t know about her and I have my doubts that she ever will find out about that.
/QUOTE]

Lindsay made it about her--the fact that Danny was grieving and wasn't turning to her somehow gave her the right to chew him out. If she'd known about Rikki, I would have gotten it, but as far as we know, she didn't. She went from "not [being] very good at this sort of thing" to chewing out Danny for daring not to let her in.

Is it any wonder we'd have reservations about the guy who uses sex as a bandage and the woman who relies on emotional manipulation as her trademark tool becoming parents?

The majority of those 15-16 million viewers don't come to message boards, no. The fact that they seem to have flocked from CSI: Miami to CSI: NY suggests to me they're just looking for an hour of a satisfying mystery. I'm hopeful the baby drama won't overshadow the cases, but I could see casual viewers turned off when they tune in to see murder and instead have to watch Lindsay and Danny arguing about becoming parents.

 

[stormymac]

Re: Your Thoughts on the upcoming Danny/Lindsay development (SPOILERS!

I really don't see how people can seperate the D/R/R storyline from D/L. Yes, if they had shown D/L having broken up before Ruben died or before Danny 'hooked up' with Rikki then fair enough. But they didn't. The reason for that, I believe is because tptb like having the different camps, the continual debates and discusssions and the diversity of responses to this storyline. I for one, cannot seperate D/R/R from D/L because it has a direct impact. That's what tptb were going for imo. I understand that people who liked Rikki want that storyline to be separate but the fact is all guest stars who appear are there to impact on the main character's. The fact that tptb talked about D/R in the form of a D/L bump proves that imo.

The thing is, it did impact a main character. It impacted Danny. I think that's what bothers a lot of people. Ever since Danny has been used as prop for Lindsay, when something happens to Danny people don't talk about how it affects him but how it affects D/L. He is no longer considered a strong character in and of himself but a 1/2 of a couple. As 1CSIMfan said, when the actor thinks his once passionate character has become nothing more than a "punching bag" then something has gone terribly wrong.

I also have to say that if I let myself think that killing a 10 year old boy and shattering the life of that boy's single mother was all for the sake of providing a bump in the road of twu wuv for D/L, then what little faith I have in the writers and this storyline will be completely destroyed.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

Re: Your Thoughts on the upcoming Danny/Lindsay development (SPOILERS!

I really don't see how people can seperate the D/R/R storyline from D/L. Yes, if they had shown D/L having broken up before Ruben died or before Danny 'hooked up' with Rikki then fair enough. But they didn't. The reason for that, I believe is because tptb like having the different camps, the continual debates and discusssions and the diversity of responses to this storyline. I for one, cannot seperate D/R/R from D/L because it has a direct impact. That's what tptb were going for imo. I understand that people who liked Rikki want that storyline to be separate but the fact is all guest stars who appear are there to impact on the main character's. The fact that tptb talked about D/R in the form of a D/L bump proves that imo.

The thing is, it did impact a main character. It impacted Danny. I think that's what bothers a lot of people. Ever since Danny has been used as prop for Lindsay, when something happens to Danny people don't talk about how it affects him but how it affects D/L. He is no longer considered a strong character in and of himself but a 1/2 of a couple. As 1CSIMfan said, when the actor thinks his once passionate character has become nothing more than a "punching bag" then something has gone terribly wrong.

I also have to say that if I let myself think that killing a 10 year old boy and shattering the life of that boy's single mother was all for the sake of providing a bump in the road of twu wuv for D/L, then what little faith I have in the writers and this storyline will be completely destroyed.

Also, if TPTB wanted it to be about DL, they should have clearly established DL before they started the story arc and made their "relationship" the focus. They didn't do that. They made the story about Danny and his neighbors, so the story should have been about Danny, Rikki and Ruben. Lindsay shouldn't have been any more involved than Mac or Flack were involved. If they wanted to show some peripheral "relationship" stuff, they could've showed Lindsay being supportive of Danny like his other friends/co-workers were, but again they chose not to do that. Instead they're sending an amazing arc spiraling down into channel changing drivel in order to accommodate one character and actress.

 

[JellyBelly]

Re: Your Thoughts on the upcoming Danny/Lindsay development (SPOILERS!

Is it any wonder we'd have reservations about the guy who uses sex as a bandage and the woman who relies on emotional manipulation as her trademark tool becoming parents?

No, it isn't any wonder you'd have reservations about that. In fact I'd agree with you on some of the above although I'm in the Lindsay is 'emotionally clumsy' as opposed to the 'emotionally manipulative' camp. It all results in similar concerns for this storyline though.

The thing is, it did impact a main character. It impacted Danny. I think that's what bothers a lot of people. Ever since Danny has been used as prop for Lindsay, when something happens to Danny people don't talk about how it affects him but how it affects D/L. He is no longer considered a strong character in and of himself but a 1/2 of a couple. As 1CSIMfan said, when the actor thinks his once passionate character has become nothing more than a "punching bag" then something has gone terribly wrong.

Of course it impacted on Danny first and foremost, but his reaction impacted on Lindsay. If tptb had handled the whole D/L thing better, providing more clarity then people wouldn't automatically assume that everything impacts on D/L. The ambiguity has been damaging to both characters imo. But, while I believe Carmine DID refer to Danny's punchbag status is S3 (rightly so) I don't recall him referring to Danny as being 'nothing more than a punchbag', suggesting that is all he is. Danny is so much more than that, he's the show's most interesting and complex character and while you may not like one aspect of how his character is portrayed, to me he has so much more depth because of ALL his storylines. I struggle with the idea that D/L has killed Danny, I've loved him in all seasons and believe he is probably one of the most interesting character's on TV, I don't think Carmine will have a problem with that, even if he has had a problem with some apsects of Danny's storylines (although as far as I'm aware he's only talked of the 'Danny going to Montana' arc as being problematic for him).

I also have to say that if I let myself think that killing a 10 year old boy and shattering the life of that boy's single mother was all for the sake of providing a bump in the road of twu wuv for D/L, then what little faith I have in the writers and this storyline will be completely destroyed.

I've heard the argument against the death of a 10 year old boy being talked of as being 'disgusting' in terms of all sides of the fandom in recent months. Whichever way you look at it, be it the story was about Danny alone, Danny/Rikki or Danny/Lindsay, the argument could be made for not using the death of a ten year old to tell the story. But, this is drama, it's what it's all about, so I just don't get that viewpoint really.

Also, if TPTB wanted it to be about DL, they should have clearly established DL before they started the story arc and made their "relationship" the focus. They didn't do that. They made the story about Danny and his neighbors, so the story should have been about Danny, Rikki and Ruben. Lindsay shouldn't have been any more involved than Mac or Flack were involved. If they wanted to show some peripheral "relationship" stuff, they could've showed Lindsay being supportive of Danny like his other friends/co-workers were, but again they chose not to do that. Instead they're sending an amazing arc spiraling down into channel changing drivel in order to accommodate one character and actress.

I honestly think the reason tptb hadn't clearly established D/L because they wanted to appease as many people as possible. Maybe they hadn't chosen their direction and wanted to keep things open. The fact is, by doing that they've left the viewers to work it out for themselves. Now, they've left themselves in a position where they can't go back and make clear statements about what happened and when, all they can do is move forward, leaving fans on each side believing what they want to believe. Hence why certain discussions come up time and time again.

As for the 'amazing arc spiraling down into channel changing drivel' I doubt it's to accommodate one character, tptb have seen a story that they want to be told. I'm not entirely happy about it myself, and have concerns but I'm keeping an open mind and won't be threatening to change my channel until I'm sure that's what I want to do, and that will only come when there's nothing left of the show I love. I certainly won't be doing that based on spoilers/rumours/speculation.

 

[Shytownmofo]

Re: Your Thoughts on the upcoming Danny/Lindsay development (SPOILERS!

There's so much since I last posted, I'm not going to go into all of it but....

I agree that oftentimes we pick and choose what we interperet from the scenes onscreen. Unless it's actually spelled out and said, many things can be open to suggestions. If we want to see things one way, we will.

However, just going by what was said onscreen, Dannny never said that he had a girlfriend. He and Rikki talked about just about everything, and why what they were doing was not a very healthy thing in the longrun, however, he did not mention that there was someone else in the picture. That goes to show, at least in my opinion that whatever relationship there was was casual or non-romantic. I think there are a lot of people on the board who agree with me there.

Contrast that with Danny and Lindsay, who just going by what was onscreen, didn't talk about anything. There was nothing indicating that she showed up at his door after Rikki left. As a matter of fact, there was nothing indicating they'd even really continued their relationship after the slept together in "Snow Day." IIRC, there wasn't even the light, flirtatious banter that there was in Season Two.

The way I interpereted things, including the Condom Spray scene in "Can You Hear Me Now," the Missed Birthday Scene and the Phone Call in "RND" Was that he barely tolerated her/didn't want to deal with her, at least on an intimate or romantic level. Flack even alluded to that in "PF" that he knew Danny and Lindsay were not on good terms, and didn't mind it.

So, I don't see Danny and Lindsay having a healthy relationship. However, that doesn't really matter, IMO.

What matters is that once again, it staples Danny and Lindsay together. Lindsay has never had any character development that is independent of Danny, and now it's likely that she never will.

Also, quite frankly, Danny and Lindsay are secondary characters. They are not the stars of the show. However, with all this stuff about their relationship, and the way people have treated it, it almost seems like they should change the name of the show from "CSI: NY" to "The Danny and Lindsay Show."

It seems as though other characters, including main characters like Mac and Stella get the shaft for the sake of Danny and Lindsay. Note Mac's relationship with Peyton. Mac is a main character, and it seems as though that relationship was somewhat shelved for the Lindsay "Dark Secret" storyline.

Another thing that says thatthis is not a good idea is the number of people who feel that Lindsay pregnant with Danny's baby is either not a good idea, or aren't sure about it. That fact alone raises a red flag.

 

[JellyBelly]

Re: Your Thoughts on the upcoming Danny/Lindsay development (SPOILERS!

However, just going by what was said onscreen, Dannny never said that he had a girlfriend. He and Rikki talked about just about everything, and why what they were doing was not a very healthy thing in the longrun, however, he did not mention that there was someone else in the picture. That goes to show, at least in my opinion that whatever relationship there was was casual or non-romantic. I think there are a lot of people on the board who agree with me there.

I think it's possible that it will never be confirmed the true status of D/L at the point where Danny and Rikki hooked up. PL's response to the cheating question indicates that, he was ambiguous at best. Taking a slightly moral standpoint in this, while I get what you're saying re. Danny not mentioning a girlfriend, I think it's also possible that a man who is saturated by guilt and seeing the only way out of that as 'using sex as a bandage' [quoting Top] isn't likely to mention having a girlfriend, in fact isn't likely to even think in terms of a girlfriend. Does that necessarily make said 'girlfriend' delusional in terms of believing the exclusivity of their relationship? I'm not saying that's what happened here, because really none of it has been clear. But, if one person in a relationship doesn't think they're exclusive while one does, who's in the wrong?

Contrast that with Danny and Lindsay, who just going by what was onscreen, didn't talk about anything. There was nothing indicating that she showed up at his door after Rikki left. As a matter of fact, there was nothing indicating they'd even really continued their relationship after the slept together in "Snow Day." IIRC, there wasn't even the light, flirtatious banter that there was in Season Two.

The way I interpereted things, including the Condom Spray scene in "Can You Hear Me Now," the Missed Birthday Scene and the Phone Call in "RND" Was that he barely tolerated her/didn't want to deal with her, at least on an intimate or romantic level. Flack even alluded to that in "PF" that he knew Danny and Lindsay were not on good terms, and didn't mind it.

Actually, I thought their scenes prior to Ruben's death, altough limited in terms of frequency were pretty light hearted and bantery. Danny seemed to enjoy the condom spray demonstration, the whole batmobile vs mach 5 and the 'love handles' scenes were pretty reminiscent of their lighthearted banter. Imo he didn't want to deal with her re. the missed birthday and phone call in RND because of his guilt/grief. Again, it's all open to interpretation.

So, I don't see Danny and Lindsay having a healthy relationship. However, that doesn't really matter, IMO.

Healthy is not a word I would use to describe it at all.

What matters is that once again, it staples Danny and Lindsay together. Lindsay has never had any character development that is independent of Danny, and now it's likely that she never will.

Also, quite frankly, Danny and Lindsay are secondary characters. They are not the stars of the show. However, with all this stuff about their relationship, and the way people have treated it, it almost seems like they should change the name of the show from "CSI: NY" to "The Danny and Lindsay Show."

It seems as though other characters, including main characters like Mac and Stella get the shaft for the sake of Danny and Lindsay. Note Mac's relationship with Peyton. Mac is a main character, and it seems as though that relationship was somewhat shelved for the Lindsay "Dark Secret" storyline.

Another thing that says thatthis is not a good idea is the number of people who feel that Lindsay pregnant with Danny's baby is either not a good idea, or aren't sure about it. That fact alone raises a red flag.

Whereas this I don't agree with. I don't think Stella and Mac of all people have been shafted in favour of Danny and Lindsay. They are still the main character's and they both still have the most screen time and interesting storylines imo.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

Re: Your Thoughts on the upcoming Danny/Lindsay development (SPOILERS!

I honestly think the reason tptb hadn't clearly established D/L because they wanted to appease as many people as possible. Maybe they hadn't chosen their direction and wanted to keep things open. The fact is, by doing that they've left the viewers to work it out for themselves. Now, they've left themselves in a position where they can't go back and make clear statements about what happened and when, all they can do is move forward, leaving fans on each side believing what they want to believe. Hence why certain discussions come up time and time again.

All of their motivation is to please viewers. Without ratings there is no show. That doesn't change my opinion that if they wanted to make the Ruben storyline all about DL drama they should have defined their relationship and focused on the fallout on them as a couple instead of it being about Danny until out of nowhere Lindsay was suddenly involved and making everything about their "relationship" instead of about Danny feeling grief and guilt over the death of a child and coming to terms with those feelings.

I personally don't like having TPTB back peddal and tell me what happened on a show because they failed to actually show it. It certainly doesn't make selling the story from this point on any easier.

As for the 'amazing arc spiraling down into channel changing drivel' I doubt it's to accommodate one character, tptb have seen a story that they want to be told.

TPTB changed the entire course of the storyline when they found out Anna Belknap was pregnant. I would call that trying to accomodate one character, but that's just me.

I'm not entirely happy about it myself, and have concerns but I'm keeping an open mind and won't be threatening to change my channel until I'm sure that's what I want to do, and that will only come when there's nothing left of the show I love. I certainly won't be doing that based on spoilers/rumours/speculation.

So far I haven't said I will be changing the channel either. I fear this storyline is going to make me do so, and I can see that happening if they continue to sacrifice what I consider quality for what I consider convienence and fanservice. That's not a threat, it's not close minded, it's just truthful speculation based on what has been revealed so far. There's no need to act like you're taking some kind of high road by waiting to see what's going to happen. Most of us are doing the same. In the meantime we're expressing our opinions on what we think of the spoilers/rumors/speculation and what will happen if they come to pass.