Your Thoughts on the upcoming Danny/Lindsay development (SPOILERS!!!)

[Elwood21]

Re: Your Thoughts on the upcoming Danny/Lindsay development (SPOILERS!

Hmm. Just finding my way back into mingling on the boards after a long absence. I left, D/L was an intense issue of debate, I come back, D/L is back on the table again. I'm still just trying to catch up on what's doing and all the spoilers.

I voted No.

I don't think it will be good for the show or the characters. Melodrama lurks and threatens to overwhelm and dilute the rest of the show.

My opinions are coloured inevitably by the fact I never gravitated to them as a couple. I have always been ambivalent about the pairing. Just never felt they had a lot of chemistry, more insipid than scintillating, and watching their interaction over the past two seasons for me has never been compelling tv.

IMO Lindsay's best time in the show was, yes, S2. Since they merged Danny & Lindsay it's dragged them both down into the poop. And I really hate poop.

I do love Adam. And something I noticed is that Lindsay has been seen more often than not in the labs, and less out at crime scenes. Adam, on the other hand, is apparently going to be seen not just in the labs but more often at crime scenes. Between the two, I'd much rather the screen time go to AJ Buckley. Hands down, no question at all. He can do more with a mere handful of words to be engaging and memorable, than Anna has managed with whole story arcs devoted to her. They might be memorable but for the wrong reasons. Just my opinion, not meaning to be disparaging.

Lindsay's character now feels mostly used to expedite explanations of evidence processing. She stirs, she mixes, she hands over a folder and off the others go. "I'm so glad that figuring this stuff out is your job," as Flack says. I'd be happy if that's where she stayed.

Well, that's not true. People have mentioned that there were spoilers talking about Lindsay moving on to have eyes for someone else. However cryptic it may seem to some, it suggests to me that the writers had determined that the course she was on was due to change, and also diverge somewhat from Danny Messer. I would have given that fair shake, welcomed that if it brought her back to a level where she started from a few years ago. That would have been interesting to me.

The same promise with Danny will also be harder pressed to materialize. He's good on screen with so many of the others, Stella, Hawkes, Adam, Angell, and not least of all Flack. I would so rather he have more scenes with them, work wise or at basketball games or whatever, than melodrama with Lindsay.

A D/L pregnancy could be more interesting perhaps if they didn't want to be romantically involved, and still had to balance raising a kid together; having & raising a child together even if they were no longer a couple. That happens to people too.

The original aims of TPTB regarding arcs for both characters sounded much more interesting to me than what they've fallen into, if only because it would have been different. This feels like an opportunistic mis-use/ further abuse/ injustice to both of their characters.

I would so love to believe this will be a good thing for the show, and a tiny part of me will hide away and wait to see what happens with it. The rest of me has no faith.

 

[Top41]

Re: Your Thoughts on the upcoming Danny/Lindsay development (SPOILERS!

TOP41 When Lindsay said " You decided to do this all on your own" he couldnt look her in the eye and dropped his head. Didnt look like he was baffled to me.

It's Danny--of course he's going to feel bad. Danny already feels horrible and guilty about the death of Ruben, and then here's Lindsay, piling on and making him feel worse--talking about her feelings and how she feels he's failed her. I did see confusion in his reaction, and yes, I do think he felt terrible, but not because he was cheating on her. No doubt he felt guilt for leading her on because being Danny, he'd rather naturally feel that was his fault.

You might not have heard it. But thats not to say it isnt a possibilty right? Especially if they didnt want anyone to know at that stage about Lindsay being pregnant. TPTB can use whatever words they want, as long as it makes sense to them. If she goes back to Montana that has been suggested, and we are supposed to learn more about her family, couldn't a Brother, or a Father, or even a Son, be whom PV was referring too? We also have to take into context the rest of PV's words, which were "she's going to come to the rescue and still be a part of that relationship" So were we meant to assume she is with Danny but also has eyes for someone else in a romantic sense. Come on I highly doubt TPTB were going to go down that road again.

I assumed Veasey meant relationship in the general sense in that case. I think if she'd meant a relative of Lindsay's, she would have used a less sexually charged phrase, something like "preoccupied by someone else" as opposed to "someone else will catch her eye." Again, I think a lot has changed since that spoiler came out.

And the exact phrasing was. "she will have eyes for someone else, he will recur for several episodes, and of course he will be incredibly attractive" See to me that could be a son. Like I said before, TPTB's words only have to make sense to them, they know the arc, we dont. Maybe thats what they wanted us to believe, that it was another man. But in theory they are not really being dishonest if turns out its a son. Are they?

I honestly doubt TPTB have decided whether or not Lindsay is having a girl or a boy yet.

In regards to Danny cheating. I cant see any other reason why TPTB had Lindsay on the other end of that phone and then had Rikki walk out of the room, if we were not meant to think he cheated. Why not have Hawkes, or Adam on the phone. Plus someone on another board has seen a copy of the script from RND and it was stated that Rikki knew whom Danny was talking to on the phone and thats why she said, she was leaving. Pretty telling hey.

Peter Lenkov who's an executive producer on the show said Danny didn't cheat. He said, "The relationship had cooled by the time Danny hooked up with Rikki."

Anna's acting is a matter of personal taste. Some people like her, some people don't. I would say the average audience, the casual viewers, the ones TPTB care about, probably don't take all that much notice to tell you the truth. As long as the show keeps them entertained.

All the same, dont see what Anna's acting has to do with "Is the pregnancy storyline good for CSI NY" though.

Her acting has everything to do with whether the story will be good for the show or not, since if she's unconvincing or flat as she's been in the past, it will make the story harder to swallow. I agree that to some extent her acting is a matter of personal taste, but sometimes bad acting is just bad acting. I've even seen her fans admit she's not always the most capable actress, and that she handles the lighter moments better.

What I am saying is, the spoilers they released back in July could still apply, it just depends how you interpret them.

I think it's a stretch, but time will tell.

Anna's acting has alot to do with it. As a viewer, I watch CSI:NY not only to be entertained, but to be convinced. When I watch Carmine Giovinazzo crying for his brother in RSRD, or AJ Buckley in panic in Snow Day, or Melina Kanakaredes in All Access, I am convinced that they are Danny, Adam, and Stella-real people in their situations. Their reactions and motions, as well as the way they present their dialogue, convinces me that they are real, believable characters. When I watch Anna, I don't see Lindsay. I see Anna, trying to be Lindsay. All Access was terrible for me-I thought it was stupid and demeaning to make her play the "terrorized by a boyfriend" part. However, even though I hated the story and hated the circumstances, Melina did an excellent job of playing Stella's fear, anxiety, and sorrow. Her acting saved that storyline for me.

Agreed. I loathe "All Access" and think it's the worst episode of any CSI show, hands down--a violent, misogynistic piece of crap--but Melina was fantastic in it.

The same goes with this storyline. Lindsay finding out she is pregnant and the ensuing pregnancy storyline might be one I hate, but if Anna was a stronger actress and could convince me with her sincerity, maybe I would be able to accept it. But Anna isn't, so I dont think i will.

Exactly. The storyline is already one many are skeptical about to begin with; Anna's inability to convey any depth of emotion doesn't make it seem any more promising.

I think that with Danny and Lindsay, they started out cute. I liked them in the beginning. But last season just turned me away from them... too much drama. And I think what's more is that neither of them are ever completely open and honest with each other. Lindsay kept the trial and her friends' murders from Danny as long as possible. Danny wouldn't let her help him after Ruben died.

Granted, both of them have been there for each other at other times, so there is some semblence of function in their relationship (interpret that term as you will). They can talk, they can hang out, but they can't make things work between them. I don't know if both of them thought hooking up was a bad idea, but Lindsay did. And if that doubt was implanted in her mind then, what's going to happen now that she's pregnant with his child?

There just doesn't seem to be any depth to their relationship. Lindsay pulled away from Danny when she needed support, and whenever Danny needs support he turns to Flack, not Lindsay. The banter in season two was cute, but if there's no depth of feeling between them, how are they going to have a meaningful relationship and raise a child together?

I think this may have been said several times, but for me, another issue of this whole thing is the instability of Danny and Lindsay as a couple. Let's be honest- everyone has their own interpretation of whether or not they're together. Some say yes, some say no, some say something in the middle. No one knows for sure what exactly's going on. To me, that's not a good environment to bring a child into.

Exactly--it's not even a stable relationship. It's definitely a bad environment for a child.

Another thing is the timing. I guess this was supposed to happen after 419, right? After Lindsay was swearing up and down (essentially) that she was done- she was trying to not be in love with Danny and told Mac she made a mistake getting involved with Danny (and before anyone jumps on it, I know those weren't her exact words, but that was the essence). After Danny basically went groveling, and she turned him away.

Impulsive is the first word that pops into my head. Impulsively after she gets his phone call, she jumps in a cab to go to his place and jump into his bed. Impulsively because he's upset, he calls her and begs her to come over. I don't think that's really fair to either character. I get that love makes you do crazy things and can make you impulsive, but that's a little over the top to me.

It makes Lindsay look pretty weak, that's for sure. The minute Danny apologizes, she comes back around. Not that she should have been so hard on him in the first place for basically grieving without turning to her--the exact same thing she did to him just a season ago. The problem with the relationship is juvenile crap like that.

 

[Kimmychu]

Re: Your Thoughts on the upcoming Danny/Lindsay development (SPOILERS!

I voted no. Considering how blatantly last minute the change of storyline was ... hell, how blatant the change itself was, I have zero expectations of this being good. The writers pushing the idea so much as 'organic/good/exciting', all it does is convince me more and more that even they think this idea is ambivalent at best. To me, the instant a writer even feels the need to explain/justify anything happening in their story via a Q&A (much less, multiple ones), it's a sure sign whatever development they're pushing will be a bad one. If it was so damn good and fits into the story, why the need for any explanation/justification at all? The story itself should be able to tell the audience that.

So until it's proven otherwise on screen, I'll be concentrating on the other characters who deserve far more attention after being shafted by Lindsay/DL for so long. Hawkes, anyone? Remember him, the intelligent, prodigy CSI who works with the team?

Elwood21 said:
A D/L pregnancy could be more interesting perhaps if they didn't want to be romantically involved, and still had to balance raising a kid together; having & raising a child together even if they were no longer a couple. That happens to people too.

The original aims of TPTB regarding arcs for both characters sounded much more interesting to me than what they've fallen into, if only because it would have been different. This feels like an opportunistic mis-use/ further abuse/ injustice to both of their characters.

I would so love to believe this will be a good thing for the show, and a tiny part of me will hide away and wait to see what happens with it. The rest of me has no faith.

Agreed with everything. At this point, what would surprise me and make this situation salvageable in any way is if Danny and Lindsay didn't get romantically involve even with the baby in the picture and moved on with other people. That certainly happens in real life. Heh, actually, that happens far more often in TV Land too than two characters getting together due to a baby. Ya gotta remember this, they're not getting together because of any feelings they have (or rather, any feelings Lindsay may have), they're getting together mainly because of the baby and obligation.

It's going to take A LOT to convince me they're suddenly 'in love with each other' and 'want to be happy together forever and ever' just because of a baby.

 

[lostladyknight]

Re: Your Thoughts on the upcoming Danny/Lindsay development (SPOILERS!

I voted that I'm not sure because in all honesty I'm not. I don't see how it's even possible that having a child between two CSI's can possibly help the show at all. It's not "Days of our Lives" it's CSI. Adding this kind of drama is only going to add another element that the show's going to have to cover all the time. I mean I'm concerned that they are going to spread themselves too thin.

We saw it happen on LV-- have you seen season 8? It's terrible. If we start making such huge changes with NY we're going to end up witha bunch of characters held together by thread and someone's going to be pushed off.

So that's why I'm against it.

Why am I for it?

Well I'm a huge fan of character. Having done theatre for ten years and been a writer since I could hold a pen I've grown to greatly appreciate characterization. Yes I think it's a sin that Lindsay's not being given the chance to develop independant of Danny, I still think this could benefit the characters involved.

It's Danny that I have in mind most when I say this. IF it's handled as well as I know the writers have the ability it could be very good for Danny. I think it'll finally give us the chance to see a side of him that we've never experienced before. Plus, I think it'll heal a few wounds for him. But, we don't need to turn him into a sniffeling woman. So, enough with the emo Harry Potter act. This has the potential to turn Danny into a man, I just worry it's going to distance him further from it.

Plus, I think it's going to effect the rest of the team a bit more than we're predicting right now. There was an episode where Stella formed a very quick bond with an infant. It wasn't evident in dialogue but it was there in body language. That has reminded me very intimately of the L&O SVU episode where Olivia admits that she'd attempted to adopt a child. I do think Stella is going to be fighting off the green eyed monster a bit. Well, or that they could go that direction. I think that would be an interesting new avenue for her character.

Also, really Lindsay is the most immature character on CSI NY-- or of any of the CSI's if you really think about it. She's still such a twelve year old tomboy in a lot of ways. I mean she's seen and been through far more than she ever should have but I think that scarred her life significantly. I'm curious how much growing up Linday will do when she learns she's pregnant. Not like Danny's becoming a man, that's a different animal. I think it's about Lindsay becoming an adult.

Then again, what do I know?

Lastly... there's the fact that I'm projecting. D/L is the only other 'ship I even slightly actively support of any CSI fandom. Obviously second to YoBling. So, now that my ship's all but completely hopeless I'm projecting those desires onto D/L. The giddy girly shipper in me can't wait. A shipper baby!? That NEVER happens. I'm so completely excited I can taste it.

So... while I get that this was critical and probably nonsense it's my thoghts. Take them or leave them.

 

[racefh853629]

Re: Your Thoughts on the upcoming Danny/Lindsay development (SPOILERS!

There just doesn't seem to be any depth to their relationship. Lindsay pulled away from Danny when she needed support, and whenever Danny needs support he turns to Flack, not Lindsay. The banter in season two was cute, but if there's no depth of feeling between them, how are they going to have a meaningful relationship and raise a child together?

Agreed. Relationships need depth, substance, whatever you want to call it. I don't see where them not exactly talking out their life issues with each other is a good, healthy relationship. They did better with that before they had sex in Snow Day.

Exactly--it's not even a stable relationship. It's definitely a bad environment for a child.

In which case, the child will grow up with their own skewed views on relationships. Children look to their parents for inspiration on how to live and what relationships should be like. If parents have healthy relationships, their kids are more likely to have healthy relationships. Studies have shown this. It doesn't matter if your parents are divorced and in healthy relationships with someone else. If you're around healthy relationships, you're likely to have healthy relationships.

It makes Lindsay look pretty weak, that's for sure. The minute Danny apologizes, she comes back around. Not that she should have been so hard on him in the first place for basically grieving without turning to her--the exact same thing she did to him just a season ago. The problem with the relationship is juvenile crap like that.

And I'm sure that as differend at TPTB wanted Lindsay to be from Aiden, I doubt they originally planned to make her weak. Danny's enough of the damsel in distress for everyone else on the show. I think you're right, though. Her being hard on him was juvenile and hypocritical. And misplaced, too. There was no need for that. I probably would've been happy he was working it out, rather than being mad that I wasn't involved.

Agreed with everything. At this point, what would surprise me and make this situation salvageable in any way is if Danny and Lindsay didn't get romantically involve even with the baby in the picture and moved on with other people. That certainly happens in real life. Heh, actually, that happens far more often in TV Land too than two characters getting together due to a baby. Ya gotta remember this, they're not getting together because of any feelings they have (or rather, any feelings Lindsay may have), they're getting together mainly because of the baby and obligation.

It's going to take A LOT to convince me they're suddenly 'in love with each other' and 'want to be happy together forever and ever' just because of a baby.

I agree. I really think they may be better off if they aren't together. They're relationship is rocky at best. Throwing a child into the mix isn't the cure-all.

ETA:

Also, really Lindsay is the most immature character on CSI NY-- or of any of the CSI's if you really think about it. She's still such a twelve year old tomboy in a lot of ways. I mean she's seen and been through far more than she ever should have but I think that scarred her life significantly. I'm curious how much growing up Linday will do when she learns she's pregnant. Not like Danny's becoming a man, that's a different animal. I think it's about Lindsay becoming an adult.

I hope that happens. I really, really do, because that would be a nice character development moment for a character that hasn't had much development. And I definitely agree- she's more immature than any of the CSIs.

 

[Shytownmofo]

Re: Your Thoughts on the upcoming Danny/Lindsay development (SPOILERS!

I voted no, for several reasons.

Number 1, it basically eliminates any character development for Lindsay outside of Danny. She's just going to be Danny's girlfriend/ex/baby momma perpetually.

It also limits Danny's character as well. The two of them will be stapled together perpetually. Given TPTB's track record with relationships, I can smell how bad it's gonna be from here.......


Number 2, as Kimmy and others have said, it's so blatantly last minute due to Anna Belknap's pregnancy.

They had so many plans to separate Danny and Lindsay this season, with Lindsay getting a new love interest (Having eyes for someone...the only time I've ever seen that is in a romantic context.), Rikki coming back, etc that were scuppered because of this....yeah. I don't quite understand why they had to do this to accomodate. Why can't there be DL drama when Lindsay finds out about Rikki? She can have a meltdown and then fly back to Montana to reassess things. That will take care of her Maternity leave, be good continuity, and everyone can be happy. Especially when Pam Veasey and Peter Lenkov have mentioned these things, then boom....

Especially because they didn the whole Ruben storyline, and now apparently that is going to be thrown by the wayside just like Louie, and so many other storylines. I honestly cannot believe that Danny will be okay with having a child after the whole Ruben thing. Where's Perfect Anomaly with her Black Hole of Continuity icon when you need her?

Number 3, it makes Danny and Lindsay both look pathetic. It makes Danny look like he craves abuse, given the way that Lindsay treated him over season 4. She was so mean to drop the "Monologue of Doom" on him while he was still grieving for Ruben. She didn't even acknowledge that, she just made it all about her. Felt like kicking a man when he was down. Then, any time he tried to talk to her about it she rejected him. It also makes him look like an opportunistic slut. Okay, Rikki moved away, here comes Montana, let's get it on.

Then, it makes Lindsay look desperate and pathetic. She said that she never should have gotten involved with a co-worker and that she needed to find a way to get over her feelings for Danny. Yeah, then go running to his bed and have unprotected sex with him....very smart, Linds.

All in all, I don't think it's a good thing for the show or the characters of Danny and Lindsay. It completely limits their characters, and turns the show into a borderline soap opera.

I don't particularly care for the character of Lindsay, and that's largely due to the way she was towards Danny during season 4. She came across as very hyporcritical to me, especially with the way she was towards him in season 3.

That being said, I'd be ambivalent if it was Rikki coming back pregnant. I'm not sure if I'd trust TPTB to handle it in a way that would be decent to both the characters.

Two of the main characters, especially two characters that have been shown to have this strange, dysfunctional, co-dependent relationship, is just a bad idea to me. Until one or both of the characters leaves the show, they're stapled together by this child. I mean, even if it was a recurring character that had Danny's baby, if it didn't work out right, they could have her leave with the baby.

Honestly, I feel that this is a potential "Jump the Shark" moment for the show. I don't see how they can handle this in a way that doesn't take over the show, or turn it into a soap opera.

 

[Faylinn]

Re: Your Thoughts on the upcoming Danny/Lindsay development (SPOILERS!

ETA: Shytownmofo posted while I was typing up this long-ass mess.

I've read through the thread, and I think pretty much everything has been said. Great points on all sides, guys!

At this point, I'm not sure. It seems obvious that the storyline has been hastily chosen, but that doesn't automatically mean it'll be done badly. However, we've seen enough half-ass storylines on this show to make me seriously doubt that this one will break the mold. It's so iffy, and in reality the only way to know for sure is to wait and see how it goes.

But where's the fun (or the speculative discussion) in that?

I think the implication that Danny and Lindsay are and have been in some kind of relationship is ludicrous. They didn't make that expressly clear, so viewers have to draw their own conclusions - and those conclusions aren't always going to fall in line with what the writers are expecting us to go along with now. If I'm supposed to buy that they're together or have been, I expect to have been shown that they are together. I'll buy that JJ and Will have been secretly dating for a year on Criminal Minds, but that's Criminal Minds. The combined total of what we've seen for Danny and Lindsay since she showed up is weak support for a Serious Relationship.

I know some people have seen it exactly as the writers intend it right now - and good for those fans, it would be nice to be right in line with TPTB's thoughts at this moment. However, I also know that there are fans that see Mac and Stella's interactions as indicating something deeper between them than friendship, and I don't think that's what the writers are going for at this moment in time. (That's just an easy example, of course.) Danny and Lindsay flirting or sleeping together or, in Lindsay's case, confessing love - none of that automatically adds up to Happy Relationship with Baby-Making Sexxorz.

There are a lot of possibilities for development for both characters - and Lindsay really needs it. As the one having the child, that should really be the most obvious character who will get something out of this storyline. But unless getting a permanent lifeline to Danny for relevance and storylines counts, I'm not seeing how this is going to help Lindsay at this point. Even the executive producers have concentrated on what this will mean for Danny. Danny's not pregnant, Danny's not living in a town across the country from his family, etc - and the big thing I would think this might mean for Danny (bringing up his guilt over Ruben and his feelings of guilt and inadequacy) is apparently being tossed into the Black Hole of Continuity for convenience.

As their relationship has been shown onscreen - fractured at best - one of the main problems I'm going to have is how they plan to deal with that relationship now that there is a child involved. Babies are born every day, and it's not always a Mommy + Daddy + Baby = Big Happy Family kind of situation. If they try to pull that on NY, it's going to ring false. A baby won't fix their damage, a baby won't smooth over their individual issues, a baby won't mend their fractured lines of communication. My worry is that it magically will, that the show will try so hard to go for that Family Ideal that it'll make characterization and past history secondary to what is Acceptable. Families in the 21st century are what they are - sometimes divorced, sometimes single parents, sometimes happily married traditional couples, sometimes happy nontraditional couples, and sometimes something completely different than any of these.

If the show is wise, it will base their interactions, their 'Family' and their relationship on what is logical for the characters as they have been portrayed so far - not the 'Do The Right Thing' ideas that just don't always work in this day and age.

So the point of my tl;dr post was basically to say: I don't think it's automatically a bad idea, but in order for it to be something good for the show, they'll have to really do it right. Telling me this is somehow 'organic' for Danny and Lindsay is not putting my mind at ease. (Unless they just mean Ejaculation + Ovulation = Fertilization, which is definitely 'organic'.)

BTW, I think it's pretty obvious that things were changed and certain storylines dropped. Just because they said that the baby is an 'organic' growth of Danny and Lindsay's relationship doesn't mean that them cooling off and seeing other people wouldn't have also been an organic growth of their relationship. Maybe they always intended to get to this point, but I can't be convinced that it was meant to happen so soon - Anna's pregnancy clearly dictated that they take a shortcut, if this was where they were going to be eventually anyway. Lindsay probably won't eye any other guys from now on, but I'm totally not buying the idea that they intended that comment to mean a relative or child. They might use a bit of coded wording sometimes, but that's taking things a bit far (and it would be kind of creepy, to be quite honest).

ETA: Oh, and acting has everything to do with the show - without good acting, the characters don't exist. Without good acting, the actions and motivations don't ring true. Without good acting, it doesn't matter how great things are in theory or how lovely they look on paper - it has to come through onscreen to matter at all.

 

[Ghawazee]

Re: Your Thoughts on the upcoming Danny/Lindsay development (SPOILERS!

That is another thing I'm worried about. There are six other characters on the show, and the spoilers we are getting have nothing to do with them, but with the pregnancy. If anything convinces me more that this pregnancy storyline will be shoved in the forefront of the rest of this season, its that, and thats exactly whats going to drive me crazy when I have to deal with that while trying to watch a crime drama....not a soap opera.

Amen. Amen and AMEN! we have interesting characters, potentially interesting relationships (real relationships) and we end here. Just i would like to know why a pregnancy was considered as a matter of life or death to give depth to a character. In special when there was debate on that character for a long long time because of the lack of ...???? how could i say it? Convincing? (sorry, i don't know the word in English). I am worried for what we are going to stand since 5.09 and further. I'm not happy. Characters are going to dissapear for this need of showing "new momma and her melodramma". Besides, the worst part, we are already suffering the side effects of this crazy idea. Because there is debate on this every day, people who love it, people who hate it. Was it really necessary? I don't think so. Besides we were increasing our audience BEFORE people knew about Melodramma Momma and her future offpring. Again i ask, was it really necessary? And Again i say: i don't think so!

I'm quite sick of this at this point (and we haven't started yet)

Debbie

ps: Fay

However, I also know that there are fans that see Mac and Stella's interactions as indicating something deeper between them than friendship, and I don't think that's what the writers are going for at this moment in time.

The big difference is Mac and Stella have a relationship .Either if you want to believe they are friends or lovers, the real thing is they DO have a bond together. Some people could believe they are only friends, others think something is happening between them (as living together i.e) but their relationship does exists. Writers won't pretend us to believe they share something because they already showed they have something (whether you call friendship or not)

Unfortunately i can't say the same about DL. They had sex, that's sure but a relationship????????????? A relationship demand respect, time, being there for each other, support, protection, the thruth when is necessary to tell difficult things..
Sorry, but i haven't seen any of that in DL issue (I resist myself to call it relationship) Just sex after a tequila round or after an argument

 

[Kimmychu]

Re: Your Thoughts on the upcoming Danny/Lindsay development (SPOILERS!

racingzombies said:
I really think they may be better off if they aren't together. They're relationship is rocky at best. Throwing a child into the mix isn't the cure-all.

Exactly. Should TPTB even attempt to portray things that way, the show will officially jump the shark and turn into the laughing stock of the franchise. There's suspension of belief, and then there's WTF-are-you-kidding-me ridiculousness. Neither one are good, but the latter is a guaranteed ratings tanker.

The problem with Lindsay 'growing up' over a baby is this: Based on TPTB's track record with her character ever since her introduction to the show, they have always shown her to be 'faultless'. It seems no matter what she does, somehow, it's always 1) someone else's fault and not hers, usually Danny's, 2) she went through bad times and therefore is exempted from any blame for any wrong she's committed or 3) she never bears any negative consequences from her actions and therefore has 'no need to grow up or develop into a better character'.

None of those point to the possibility of her character ever developing or 'growing up'. If anything, my guess is TPTB will just make Danny her permanent prop with this pregnancy storyline and turn the whole 'Danny does something wrong and has to make it up to Lindsay in some way or another' plot into a vicious, repetitive cycle. They've been doing this ever since Danny and Lindsay were stapled together, and seeing as TPTB so blatantly changed the storylines for season five to accommodate Belknap's pregnancy and continue dragging DL on ... I foresee no change in this. And you can't get more boring or predictable than that. Well, Veasey, you and the other writers are going to have to come up with something seriously good to back up your claim 'things won't be typical'. I have no faith in that though, not anymore.

Shytownmofo said:
They had so many plans to separate Danny and Lindsay this season, with Lindsay getting a new love interest (Having eyes for someone...the only time I've ever seen that is in a romantic context.), Rikki coming back, etc that were scuppered because of this....yeah. I don't quite understand why they had to do this to accomodate. Why can't there be DL drama when Lindsay finds out about Rikki? She can have a meltdown and then fly back to Montana to reassess things. That will take care of her Maternity leave, be good continuity, and everyone can be happy. Especially when Pam Veasey and Peter Lenkov have mentioned these things, then boom....

Yes, this. When fans can think of better ideas off the top of their heads to deal with the situation, something ain't right somewhere. As it is, it merely makes TPTB come across as too lazy to hide Belknap's pregnancy. And, it also comes across that the credibility of the writers and the integrity of various storylines has become undermined. Brushing off the aftermath of Ruben's death just to accommodate this, just for the sake of trying to spin it as a 'good, happy' thing? Strike one, already. A huge one. Bringing Rikki back just to push the agenda and undermine her entire storyline? Strike two, also another terrible one. Turning Danny into Lindsay's permanent prop at the cost of Lindsay's character being in his shadow for the rest of the show? Strike three. And there's more, but those are the major ones to me.

Then, it makes Lindsay look desperate and pathetic. She said that she never should have gotten involved with a co-worker and that she needed to find a way to get over her feelings for Danny. Yeah, then go running to his bed and have unprotected sex with him....very smart, Linds.

If TPTB even tries to paint her as a 'strong, independent' woman after this, I'll be here LOL'ing my head off.

That being said, I'd be ambivalent if it was Rikki coming back pregnant. I'm not sure if I'd trust TPTB to handle it in a way that would be decent to both the characters.

As of now, I'm actually glad Rikki won't be the one pregnant. Should this blow up in TPTB's face, there's no going back for Lindsay's character. But Rikki ... I can see her being TPTB's 'back up' as damage control. I just hope whatever TPTB's deciding to do with her character, they won't undermine what happened to her in season four or use her as nothing more than plot device. That would be plain insulting to her character after what happened.

I mean, even if it was a recurring character that had Danny's baby, if it didn't work out right, they could have her leave with the baby.

Exactly. With Lindsay, that's impossible. Like I said, if this blows up in TPTB's face, it's a mistake that will be shoved in their faces and in the audience's faces over and over unless they take drastic measures to fix things. I don't want to think how bad it'll be by then.

Faylinn said:
I think the implication that Danny and Lindsay are and have been in some kind of relationship is ludicrous. They didn't make that expressly clear, so viewers have to draw their own conclusions - and those conclusions aren't always going to fall in line with what the writers are expecting us to go along with now. If I'm supposed to buy that they're together or have been, I expect to have been shown that they are together. I'll buy that JJ and Will have been secretly dating for a year on Criminal Minds, but that's Criminal Minds. The combined total of what we've seen for Danny and Lindsay since she showed up is weak support for a Serious Relationship.

Agreed. The way it was handled on Criminal Minds was great. Good and logical build up, a pregnancy storyline with a recurring character, good chemistry between the characters ... CM did good there. And also, JJ isn't one of the agents, she's their PR person which means her pregnancy won't be something that'll overwhelm the show in any way. Heck, even when the wife of one of the main agents, Hotch, had a baby, all they did was show Hotch with the baby at work once, and that was it. Again, it was a main character having a baby with a recurring one, not two main characters.

Even the executive producers have concentrated on what this will mean for Danny. Danny's not pregnant, Danny's not living in a town across the country from his family, etc - and the big thing I would think this might mean for Danny (bringing up his guilt over Ruben and his feelings of guilt and inadequacy) is apparently being tossed into the Black Hole of Continuity for convenience.

To me, this is just more proof TPTB is using Danny as a prop to cover up Lindsay's/Belknap's shortcomings as a character/actress.

Telling me this is somehow 'organic' for Danny and Lindsay is not putting my mind at ease. (Unless they just mean Ejaculation + Ovulation = Fertilization, which is definitely 'organic'.)

:guffaw: :guffaw: :guffaw:

Oh, and acting has everything to do with the show - without good acting, the characters don't exist. Without good acting, the actions and motivations don't ring true. Without good acting, it doesn't matter how great things are in theory or how lovely they look on paper - it has to come through onscreen to matter at all.

Agreed wholeheartedly. How can a story be expected to be told well when the actor/actress is unable to convey what's written? You might as well be writing a blank story and hope the audience self-inserts themselves into the characters and overlook your flawed writing/the bad acting.

Oh wait.

 

[Top41]

Re: Your Thoughts on the upcoming Danny/Lindsay development (SPOILERS!

The problem with Lindsay 'growing up' over a baby is this: Based on TPTB's track record with her character ever since her introduction to the show, they have always shown her to be 'faultless'. It seems no matter what she does, somehow, it's always 1) someone else's fault and not hers, usually Danny's, 2) she went through bad times and therefore is exempted from any blame for any wrong she's committed or 3) she never bears any negative consequences from her actions and therefore has 'no need to grow up or develop into a better character'.

That's my other big concern. Danny has always been portrayed as a flawed character--he's impulsive, he's rash, he's overly emotional, he goes with his heart when he needs to listen to his head. But Lindsay has been portrayed as this little Canon Sue who can do no wrong--even when she does do wrong. She should have gotten chewed out for leaving the crime scene in "Silent Night"; instead, Stella tried to be compassionate until Lindsay was such a horrid brat that Stella finally lost her cool. Mac should have written Lindsay up for leaving evidence out in "Like Water for Murder"; instead, we get a total OOC "I'm so worried about you, Lindsay!" speech from him.

Having other characters willfully ignore or let slide Lindsay's faults and missteps makes her character less sympathetic, not more. And therein lies the problem: as lostladyknight points out, Lindsay is the most immature character on the show. She's got Danny beat by miles, because at least he owns up to it when he does wrong. Far, far more than Danny, Lindsay is the one who needs to grow and mature. If that happens with this storyline, then yes, I do think it will be a good one for her. But if it doesn't--if she's somehow painted as this paragon of womanhood and motherhood simply because she got knocked up--it's going to be really frustrating and inconsistent.

 

[melanie33]

Re: Your Thoughts on the upcoming Danny/Lindsay development (SPOILERS!

I suppose it all depends on how you interpret things. Was there ever anything stated by TPTB that Rikki would come back pregnant?

I seem to recall not long after that Veasey interview, AA released a statement that Rikki wouldn't be with child, when she returned. Was their ever any statement that D and L were not back together when Rikki returned? I wouldn't be so quick to jump to conclusions. Like I said. In the script (and no not the auditon sides the acutal script the main actors get) it was made apparent that Rikki knew about Lindsay and did indeed over hear the phonecall , it also puts into context so much more her speech to Danny "One day you will wake up and realize Ruebens death isn't your fault" In normal circumstances this wouldnt be happening between them. Danny wasn't thinking of the concequences his actions could cause. One day when his guilt and greif had subsided, there would be a path of destruction left behind. And IMO I think thats why Rikki decided to leave, she didn't want to be partly responsible for Danny ruining what he had with Lindsay. Got to admire her for that.

sidenote (If you live in LA. You can go to the Writers Guild Library and check out the RND script for yourself.)

According to PL D and L's relationship had cooled. Now cooled to me means loose intensity. Certainly doesn't imply it was over per se. He also said that the relationship had its ups and downs, and it was in a down period that D and R connected. That can be interpreted as that when the whole Rueben thing happened, Danny and Lindsay's relationship was in a down period, but the thing that cooled the actual reltionship itself was his guilt and pain over Rueben's death and the fact that he felt he needed to make it up to Rikki for the death of her son. Hence sleeping with her, because it helped with her pain as well as his.

Also PV said that when they filmed the rain walk scene, they didn't know AB was pregnant, so that tells me that what Danny said to L in that phone convo was how it was always meant to be. I'm sorry but it makes Danny look like a manipulator if the reasoning behind his words was that Rikki left.

He knew Lindsay was in love with him, so in theory he would be using her love to his own advantage because his other option was no longer available.

He also didn't seem worried or nervous when she told him how hard he was to love, seemed like relief to me. Makes sense seeing as though she had told him she had to let that go. Also its my perception that Danny wanted her to come over there so he could tell her in person how he felt about her, honestly I dont think TPTB would have him say those things to her as a ruse to get her over there, so he could break her heart by telling her he didn't love her. Especially after he had just said, he wouldn't break her heart again.

And on that. Lindsay never said loving Danny was a mistake or stupid. She said getting involved with a co worker was. But love is a powerful emotion, as try as we may to sometimes shut that off, its not that easy.

Also going over to Danny's doesnt make her easy, doesnt make her look stupid, makes her human IMO. She loves him, and apparently he loves her, since when has two people in love sleeping together become a crime?

Forgivness in this case IMO is not a sign of weakness its a sign of strength. It shows she was prepared to put things behind her and forgive Danny, even after all he had done. And yes, I still believe he cheated. If what Danny was doing wasn't wrong, why did he try to turn everything back around on her, why did he get defensive when L asked him whats wrong on the phone in RND. And seriously L's behaviour was insensitive, what was Danny's then?

I personally think Rikki was always meant as a plot device for D and L. I never saw it as anything more than that. Even if Rikki had come back pregnant, I sitll dont think Danny would have ended up with her. Because in theory wouldn't that be as bad as some of you claim here when it comes to D and L. That he would only be going back because he felt obligated for his child, not because he loved Rikki. IMO it couldnt be played any other way. Sort of makes Danny look like a bit of a di*k. I love Lindsay, no hang on a minute I love Rikki, on second thoughts I think I still love Lindsay, I mean seriously.

You cant just pick and choose part of the storyline to suit your own agenda. You have to look at the whole arc in its entirety. From CP through to PF..Dannys guilt was made apparent from the get go, both in CP and AINF, why do you think they did that? I'll tell you why. To explain what happened between R and D in RND, thats why. Rikki said it herself, her words were telling. Basically she was saying under normal circumstances what was happening between them wouldnt have been happening. To which Danny replied he didnt care. He didn't care what the consequences of his actions were, he just wanted the pain to go away for him and her. Then we have Lindsay's speech. When she said she loved him, something inside him clicked. His" I dont care" was coming back to haunt him, because there was something he cared about, and how he was faced with the real possibility of losing that. Thats when we see him try to talk to her. In PF he was becomming more desperate to talk, but by then Lindsay had closed herself off from him to protect herself from him hurting her again. Then he calls, telling her he understands now. What do you think he meant by that. IMO he meant he understood that what he had with Rikki wasn't love, it was two people trying to ease the pain over a mutal loss, exactlly what Rikki had tried to tell him in RND. You could see it when Rikki came to his door too. She looked mighty nervous until he said, she was right and what they were doing was "bad" because up until then IMO R thought D was reading more into it. Then L tells him he is breaking her heart to which he replies he knows and that he wouldn't do it again. Now Danny knows what it is like to love someone and have them close off and push you away. Thats when he gives his speech about missing her more than he can say, using that as a way to gague a reaction from Lindsay, hoping beyond hope she still feels the same way, and hadn't let her love for him go. When she replies about him being hard to love, the look on his face is one of relief not nervousness. He then asks her to come over there to tell him in person. Why would he do that? IMO its because he wanted to tell her he felt the same way. Why would Danny carry on with someone he knows loves him, if he didn't feel the same way, it makes no sense to me at all. And makes Danny look all kinds of bad.

If D and L are in a relationship like PL' suggests they are, certainly seems like its one based on love. Which would fit with AJ saying "Its about those two characters and their love" Another question if I may. How IS Danny going back to her because she is pregnant, if they are already together? I dont get that!!!

Also PL said the storyline had changed, IMO the only thing that changed was the fact Lindsay is pregnant. There is no proof that substanuates Rikki was ever coming back pregnant before or after TPTB decided to write in AB's pregnancy. And no proof that D and L still wouldn't end up together in the end. I mean seriously its TV. And as much as people want to deny it, D/L is to CSI NY what GSR was to the Mothership. There is no way in heck that TPTB are going to let that go. Just look at all the discussion it generates.

And I dont see PV or PL's words as trying to talk people into thinking its a good idea. Like PL said. "Its a first for the franchise" Dont you think they would want to play that up. People on either side of the D/L debate shouldnt give themselves too much credit. TPTB have focus groups that tells them what works and what doesn't. We can whine and whinge about things not going our way, but in the end, its the Neilson viewers that count not a group of fans on message boards.

And to end. Anna's baby is due early in next year. Now unless she has the shortest pregnancy in history, it seems TPTB have known about it for quite some time.

 

[Top41]

Re: Your Thoughts on the upcoming Danny/Lindsay development (SPOILERS!

I suppose it all depends on how you interpret things. Was there ever anything stated by TPTB that Rikki would come back pregnant?

I seem to recall not long after that Veasey interview, AA released a statement that Rikki wouldn't be with child, when she returned.

He speculated that she wouldn't be pregnant. That may very well have been true at the time--and is certainly true now--but I do wonder why the "frequency with which we'll see her" is affected if Rikki wasn't coming back pregnant, or to pick up where she and Danny left off.

Was their ever any statement that D and L were not back together when Rikki returned? I wouldn't be so quick to jump to conclusions. Like I said. In the script (and no not the auditon sides the acutal script the main actors get) it was made apparent that Rikki knew about Lindsay and did indeed over hear the phonecall , it also puts into context so much more her speech to Danny "One day you will wake up and realize Ruebens death isn't your fault" In normal circumstances this wouldnt be happening between them. Danny wasn't thinking of the concequences his actions could cause. One day when his guilt and greif had subsided, there would be a path of destruction left behind. And IMO I think thats why Rikki decided to leave, she didn't want to be partly responsible for Danny ruining what he had with Lindsay. Got to admire her for that.

sidenote (If you live in LA. You can go to the Writers Guild Library and check out the RND script for yourself.)

Did you do this? What exactly did the script say? I'd be curious, because what I saw on screen was Rikki concerned for the potential destructiveness of their behavior on herself and Danny. I never saw any indication that she knew about Lindsay, and Danny's end of the phone conversation didn't make it sound like he was talking to someone he had a particularly intimate relationship with.

According to PL D and L's relationship had cooled. Now cooled to me means loose intensity. Certainly doesn't imply it was over per se.

No, but he implied it was over at that point in time, especially since that was in response to the question, "Did Danny cheat on Lindsay?" His answer is apparently "no." Some seem to want to continue to believe Danny cheated on Lindsay, and that's obviously fine, but Lenkov's answer indicates TPTB don't feel he did.

Also PV said that when they filmed the rain walk scene, they didn't know AB was pregnant, so that tells me that what Danny said to L in that phone convo was how it was always meant to be. I'm sorry but it makes Danny look like a manipulator if the reasoning behind his words was that Rikki left.

He knew Lindsay was in love with him, so in theory he would be using her love to his own advantage because his other option was no longer available.

I wouldn't quite put it that way. I do think Danny's needy though, and that what really got to him was that Lindsay was pushing him away. It's pretty clear that nothing hurts Danny like being pushed away--we've seen it with Mac, with Louie and now Lindsay.

He also didn't seem worried or nervous when she told him how hard he was to love, seemed like relief to me. Makes sense seeing as though she had told him she had to let that go. Also its my perception that Danny wanted her to come over there so he could tell her in person how he felt about her, honestly I dont think TPTB would have him say those things to her as a ruse to get her over there, so he could break her heart by telling her he didn't love her. Especially after he had just said, he wouldn't break her heart again.

I don't think he told her he doesn't love her, but I think it's significant that he hasn't yet told her he does.

Sort of makes Danny look like a bit of a di*k. I love Lindsay, no hang on a minute I love Rikki, on second thoughts I think I still love Lindsay, I mean seriously.

Or maybe it just makes him look confused? I don't think anyone has claimed he ever said he loved Rikki, though.*I'm not sure Danny loves anyone in this whole mess--though I'm sure that will come in season five, since it will need to to fit the new storyline.

You cant just pick and choose part of the storyline to suit your own agenda. You have to look at the whole arc in its entirety. From CP through to PF..Dannys guilt was made apparent from the get go, both in CP and AINF, why do you think they did that? I'll tell you why. To explain what happened between R and D in RND, thats why. Rikki said it herself, her words were telling. Basically she was saying under normal circumstances what was happening between them wouldnt have been happening. To which Danny replied he didnt care. He didn't care what the consequences of his actions were, he just wanted the pain to go away for him and her.

Right, definitely. I certainly think Danny slept with Rikki in a misguided attempt to try to in some small way alleviate a tragedy he felt responsible for.

Then we have Lindsay's speech. When she said she loved him, something inside him clicked. His" I dont care" was coming back to haunt him, because there was something he cared about, and how he was faced with the real possibility of losing that. Thats when we see him try to talk to her. In PF he was becomming more desperate to talk, but by then Lindsay had closed herself off from him to protect herself from him hurting her again. Then he calls, telling her he understands now. What do you think he meant by that.

I think he told her what he thought she wanted to hear, because Danny hates it when people push him away.

IMO he meant he understood that what he had with Rikki wasn't love, it was two people trying to ease the pain over a mutal loss, exactlly what Rikki had tried to tell him in RND. You could see it when Rikki came to his door too. She looked mighty nervous until he said, she was right and what they were doing was "bad" because up until then IMO R thought D was reading more into it.

I think they both knew what they were doing wasn't healthy or perhaps the right solution, but I don't think that had much to do with Lindsay.

Then L tells him he is breaking her heart to which he replies he knows and that he wouldn't do it again.

Right--exactly what she wanted him to hear.

Now Danny knows what it is like to love someone and have them close off and push you away.

I think Danny learned that long before Lindsay, and that's a big part of the reason he's drawn to her. Lindsay's big thing after all is pushing Danny away whenever she feels like it.

Thats when he gives his speech about missing her more than he can say, using that as a way to gague a reaction from Lindsay, hoping beyond hope she still feels the same way, and hadn't let her love for him go. When she replies about him being hard to love, the look on his face is one of relief not nervousness.

Sure, relief because she's just reinforced everything he's always believed about himself--that he's hard to love. It's a depressing kind of relief, I'd think.

He then asks her to come over there to tell him in person. Why would he do that? IMO its because he wanted to tell her he felt the same way.

Or maybe because Danny's going to do exactly what he did with Rikki and use sex to try to fix things? Because that seems to be what Danny does. If he was going to tell her he felt the same way, he would have done it over the phone to convince her to come over and because this is television, and things like that don't happen off screen.

Why would Danny carry on with someone he knows loves him, if he didn't feel the same way, it makes no sense to me at all. And makes Danny look all kinds of bad.

Because Danny is an incredibly damaged character who seems to equate love with being hurt and uses sex as a bandage to fix things?

If D and L are in a relationship like PL' suggests they are, certainly seems like its one based on love. Which would fit with AJ saying "Its about those two characters and their love" Another question if I may. How IS Danny going back to her because she is pregnant, if they are already together? I dont get that!!!

I'm sure it will be in season five because again, the storyline has changed. I'm not saying D/L wouldn't have gotten their eventually. Lindsay is clearly already in love (well, her version of love, which apparently involves constantly pushing Danny away/making him feel bad) and Danny is just needy, but I'm sure eventually that would have translated into love. The point is that in season four, I think it's pretty clear he wasn't anywhere close. The fact that Lindsay said she loved him twice and he didn't say it back either time pretty much says it all.

Also PL said the storyline had changed, IMO the only thing that changed was the fact Lindsay is pregnant.

And the frequency with which we'd see Rikki, as Pam Veasey told TV Guide. That suggests her role was originally intended to be bigger...which also suggests the original plan on the table wasn't all roses for D/L.

And as much as people want to deny it, D/L is to CSI NY what GSR was to the Mothership.

At least we knew when GSR were together.

There is no way in heck that TPTB are going to let that go. Just look at all the discussion it generates.

Sadly, I think all the buzz and controversy is a big reason behind the whole D/L pairing continuing. Just because something's controversial doesn't make it good.

And I dont see PV or PL's words as trying to talk people into thinking its a good idea. Like PL said. "Its a first for the franchise" Dont you think they would want to play that up. People on either side of the D/L debate shouldnt give themselves too much credit. TPTB have focus groups that tells them what works and what doesn't. We can whine and whinge about things not going our way, but in the end, its the Neilson viewers that count not a group of fans on message boards.

That's definitely true--message boards make up a small percent of the fandom. At the same time, they're a great place to gage reaction to storylines, characters, episodes, etc.

And to end. Anna's baby is due early in next year. Now unless she has the shortest pregnancy in history, it seems TPTB have known about it for quite some time.

Was it released when Anna is due??? Either way, we have no way of knowing when TPTB were told.

 

[Kimmychu]

Re: Your Thoughts on the upcoming Danny/Lindsay development (SPOILERS!

In the script (and no not the auditon sides the acutal script the main actors get) it was made apparent that Rikki knew about Lindsay and did indeed over hear the phonecall , it also puts into context so much more her speech to Danny "One day you will wake up and realize Ruebens death isn't your fault" In normal circumstances this wouldnt be happening between them. Danny wasn't thinking of the concequences his actions could cause. One day when his guilt and greif had subsided, there would be a path of destruction left behind. And IMO I think thats why Rikki decided to leave, she didn't want to be partly responsible for Danny ruining what he had with Lindsay. Got to admire her for that.

Whether or not it was in the original script, the point is, it didn't come across in the final episode itself. That's where it really counts, not whether it was written in the script or not. How many people are going to bother going to a library just to read the script to prove a point for a storyline? (And to be honest, until there's cold, hard proof that really is the true script for the episode and it's posted for all to see, I'm gonna be skeptical about that.) You tell us not to jump so quickly to conclusions? You've done the same for a lot of your points.

Rikki saying, ""One day you will wake up and realize Rueben's death isn't your fault."? How does that automatically translate to her knowing about Lindsay and that whatever was happening between them wouldn't have happened in other circumstances? What that line of hers tells me is simply that she knows Danny is blaming himself for what happened and that she doesn't.

And IMO I think thats why Rikki decided to leave, she didn't want to be partly responsible for Danny ruining what he had with Lindsay.

No, what she said was she was leaving because 'the memories were too painful'. Again, nothing to do with Lindsay. Jumping way far to conclusions there. If TPTB had intended for it to have anything to do with Lindsay, why didn't Rikki just say it outright? Because it didn't. It was about her, Danny and Ruben.

He knew Lindsay was in love with him, so in theory he would be using her love to his own advantage because his other option was no longer available.

And what is so impossible about this? The reason you feel it's 'impossible' is mainly because you see the feelings between Danny and Lindsay as mutual ... which I don't. She told him twice about her feelings, and he didn't say the same in return to her either time. If he really did love her, he would have said to her. But he didn't. That phone call would have been the perfect opportunity for him to say it. But he didn't.

Oh, and I'd like to point out Lindsay's reply to him asking her to go over to his place to say to him in person. She said, "I'll talk with you later," and not in a, "Yay, the hot man I'm in love with likes me again!" way either. She clearly said it in a detached tone. So according to TPTB now, she decided to go to his apartment anyway, after Rikki came to say goodbye to Danny and Danny was evidently upset about it. So who's to say Danny didn't just have sex with Lindsay because he felt awful over Rikki leaving?

Also its my perception that Danny wanted her to come over there so he could tell her in person how he felt about her, honestly I dont think TPTB would have him say those things to her as a ruse to get her over there, so he could break her heart by telling her he didn't love her. Especially after he had just said, he wouldn't break her heart again.

He asked her to 'go over to his place to tell him how she felt in person'. He never said anything about him wanting to tell her anything. And again, what is so impossible about him saying what he believed she wanted to hear just to get her to his place? So with Rikki, the sex had to be just a means to an end, but with Lindsay, it can't be anything except 'love'? And who said he even wanted to talk to her? Well, based on how TPTB's decided to spin this, I guess he pulled the same tactic on Lindsay that he pulled on Rikki, right? Using sex to please her? Or is the double standard in play again and somehow, everything Danny does for Lindsay has to be 'love' and nothing else?

And uh ... I sure don't remember Danny ever saying 'he would never break her heart again'. :wtf: 'I won't do it ever again' is a far cry from 'I won't ever break your heart again'. Danny could very well have just meant he wouldn't push her away completely like he did again.

Also going over to Danny's doesnt make her easy, doesnt make her look stupid, makes her human IMO.

Sure, it's human to have feelings. But considering what she said to Danny herself, that she wanted to get over it and already made up her mind, even told Mac it was so stupid of her to ever get involved with a co-worker ... yeah, it does make her look foolish, and a flake who can't keep to her own word. There's love, then there's also self-respect and dignity too. What, she knows very well it's a bad thing to be involved with Danny, but at the first sign of Danny being remotely interested in her again, she jumps straight into his bed and has unprotected sex with him and we're supposed to think love exempts her from her past statements/decisions? That it's a valid excuse for her flaky behavior and the way she treated Danny like crap in season four? :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

She loves him, and apparently he loves her, since when has two people in love sleeping together become a crime?

:lol: Don't jump to conclusions, huh? She's admitted in canon to being in love with him, but for the record, he never has. He's never even admitted to being in a relationship with her, much less be in love with her.

You cant just pick and choose part of the storyline to suit your own agenda. You have to look at the whole arc in its entirety.

:guffaw: Now that's what I call extreme irony there. Accusing people of 'picking and choosing part of a storyline to suit your own agenda' isn't going to back up your claims. What makes you think we aren't looking at the whole arc in its entirety? We barely got any signs of Danny and Lindsay being in a relationship for the whole of season four. All we got was that Lindsay admitted she was in love with Danny and wanted to get over it, and that Danny was shocked at finding out about Lindsay's feelings for him. Then we were shown Lindsay avoiding him when he wanted to talk to her and basically treating him like crap simply for turning down her lunch offer and not going to her the way she expected him to do. What, a guy can't even grieve over the death of a child anymore without her specifications on how he should do it? :wtf:

Why would Danny carry on with someone he knows loves him, if he didn't feel the same way, it makes no sense to me at all.

... until we got the news Lindsay will be pregnant and Lenkov's statements that 'Danny and Lindsay are together', we've had no signs whatsoever that Danny 'carried on' with Lindsay after episode 4x19. Heck, until now, episode 5x03, we still haven't seen any sign of them being together at all.

And uh, ya know, sometimes people do stay in relationships, dysfunctional and terrible as they are, for a whole variety of reasons other than love. Personally, I think it's an extremely narrow view to assume that just because two people are in a relationship, it automatically has to be 'filled with love' and that the love 'must be mutual'. Even in TV land, that's not necessarily true for all relationships. And in this case, seeing everything that's happened, 'happy' and 'deeply in love' are hardly how I'd describe DL.

People on either side of the D/L debate shouldnt give themselves too much credit. TPTB have focus groups that tells them what works and what doesn't. We can whine and whinge about things not going our way, but in the end, its the Neilson viewers that count not a group of fans on message boards.

Interesting this line of argument only pops up whenever the situation is going in the DL direction. I guess we'll see how the ratings do once this storyline is acted out on the show.

On a side note, I should point out that we who had spoilers in advance were still shocked by this development. Can you imagine how viewers who don't read spoilers, period, will react to Lindsay suddenly being pregnant, especially if TPTB hasn't bothered to show any signs of DL being in a relationship this season until episode 9 itself? If it was shocking to us, I think it'll be a total WTF thing to viewers who have no idea what's coming up.

Anna's baby is due early in next year. Now unless she has the shortest pregnancy in history, it seems TPTB have known about it for quite some time.

And it should be noted TPTB still went on with Rikki returning possibly pregnant with Danny's baby and Lindsay moving on with another man right up until the very last minute ... which tells me Lindsay being pregnant wasn't their original plan. As to why they changed things at such a last minute, well, whatever reason it is, I don't think any of us will ever really know unless TPTB enlightens us on it.

 

[kinkapoodles]

Re: Your Thoughts on the upcoming Danny/Lindsay development (SPOILERS!

sidenote (If you live in LA. You can go to the Writers Guild Library and check out the RND script for yourself.)

So, does this mean you live in LA and you have went to this Writers Guild Library and found the script for RND? Just curious.

 

[Elsie]

Re: Your Thoughts on the upcoming Danny/Lindsay development (SPOILERS!

Regardless of what the script may say, on screen I really don't think they showed that Rikki knew about Lindsay, so Danny and Rikki's interaction is surely open to interpretation? Personally, the script makes absolutely no difference to what I think of the upcoming Danny/Lindsay development, so I'm not going to dwell on it.

I'm never going to think that this is the best storyline that they could have come up with, and from the spoilers/interviews etc. I am sure that their original plans for this season did change due to Anna's real life pregnancy. So, perhaps this is a rushed version of a plan they did have for D/L's future, or maybe not. I don't like being told that Lindsay got pregnant after 'Personal Foul', I think that if they feel the need to tell us the story rather than leaving it for people to work out for themselves then something is slightly wrong somewhere. To me, this kind of sums up the D/L relationship in general. It has been ill-defined, confusing and lacking in chemistry. Now, a baby won't change all of that, but hopefully things will become a little clearer over the course of this season.

But, being left with this storyline, it could be worse. I really think there is potential for interesting future storylines, and for development for both characters. Danny as a father? There is definite potential in that. Two CSI's parenting together? Why not? I'm hoping (and assuming) that whilst the baby will be central to an episode or two, other than that it will remain very much in the background and the other cases and characters will come to the fore.