Just saying that it's interesting how a lot of Ryan fans can cut Ryan some slack even when he's done wrong but Eric is hardly ever cut any slack no matter what the reason is. That was where I was going with that. I'm not a Ryan fan but I can see where he's done good and bad. I also don't blame almost every single thing on this character just because I don't like him. No, I'm not directing that at you just trying to be clear by what I mean.
Well let's just put it in this way
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Both guys have made lots of mistakes during their life & in most of the occasions they realised it. The problems come whenever it's time to pay the consequences.
While Ryan was covered by Calleigh once, he's always been the first one to pay for his errors. When he used too much luminol, he was the CSI who got reported for destroying an evidence & immediatly asked help to Calleigh so that they could go on w/ the investigation. Same thing happened w/ the whole gambling stuff. He was the one who got fired since he broke protocol.
And I'm pretty sure that he already paid for his error in "WISC" when Delko yelled at him & Calleigh didn't care about him leaving the lab in that moment b/c they were both mad at him.
But once Eric is in trouble, he isn't the first one to pay for his troubles. It has always been Calleigh. He may understood that his cheat sheet put her in danger, but he's never been able to literally face so that he could retake his proficiencies instead of Calleigh
I mean I was stunned that some blamed them for Ryan's torture.
Actually I've never read this kind of post, but I agree w/ you since in this case you're completely right.
I only blame them for some aspect & they're all about when they're together in a scene. Since when they're separated they tend to work in a professional way, IMHO.
I think this bothers me so much because Eric was there before Ryan and I'm just tired of him being painted as the bad guy all the time...even when he's trying not to be. It gets old.
Let's say that at first I wanted Ryan literally out of the show since I couldn't stand him & I always defended Delko, but I have to admit that I've always seen people defending Eric Delko just b/c he's the older CSI there & he's the one who has more experience or just b/c Ryan Wolfe replaced Speedle.
Let me just say this:
- Timothy Speedle is dead & won't ever come back. It is useless to blame a new guy just b/c he replaced a dead person. It happens in normal life & it's pretty normal to be pissed off at first, but then it gets old & old.
- Eric Delko, right now, has a bullet in his head & some times has memory lapses. Not to mention that he once saw a ghost. He should retake his proficiencies b/c we know that sometimes he uses a cheat sheet even if he'll never admit it since he's too proud. He made some mistakes while working b/c of his injuries & he takes lots of medications. How can you always blame a person just b/c he has a bullet in his head? When he makes a mistake you have to point it out & try to teach him how not to repeat it so that he can really improve, something he's not doing, right now.
- Ryan Wolfe has all his mental capacities & right now he's more competent thatn Eric Delko. Whenever it's time for a complex mission, Horatio always goes to see Ryan first b/c he has gained his trust. How can you always blame him just b/c you feel that he's not at the same level of Delko?
Having said this, it is useless to always blame Ryan b/c he replaced Speedle, it is uselss to always blame Delko just b/c he has not all his mental capacities & it is useless to blam Ryan just b/c, at the moment, is a little bit smarter than Delko.
But people who don't pay enough attention to the show we'll always be so sneaky when it's time to blame someone they hate.
So as you blame someone for a certain thing, you should blame someone else b/c of other things. It's just a question of maturity, IMHO.
Why is Ryan still a man and Eric isn't?
Ryan isn't always a man either b/c some times he didn't even understand what kind of mistake he had just done. Same thing happens to Delko.
I think that the problem w/ Delko (trying to let you understand why I don't like him, at the moment) is that very few times he understands what kind of mistake he made & very few times offers to help the person who's trying to cover him.
I know I'll be boring taking always the cheat sheet example, but I do think it can explain my opinion in the best way possible.
In that occasion he didn't understand what the real intention of Calleigh's words was & once she said "I'll retake the proficiencies" & left the lab, he didn't go to visit Stetler & he didn't pay the consequences of HIS mistake.
But, then again, the stupid one was Calleigh, not him!
The same exact thing hapened w/ Ryan & his supernote. And again the stupid one was Caleligh & not Ryan.
Though, I think this kind of situation happened more times w/ Eric than Ryan. That's why I tend to defend Ryan, when it's possible.
I don't agree that Eric thinks he doesn't NEED to have his skills checked.
Let's just say that yeah he doesnt' think he doesn't need to have his skills checked. He some times doesn't even know what day is & most of the times doesn't even understand people want to tell him. That's the real problem w/ Eric, at this point. And I do think it has also something to do w/ his beloved bullet
Florry86 said something similar about how he doesn't even think he won't even admit that he still has a problem. Not to blame everything on the writing but this is where I think the writing has done the character a disservice.
Gotta agree also b/c I'll reapeat it till I die...IT IS IMPOSSIBLE that he came back to work w/o assistance both medical & psychological after his shooting!
That's when I blame writers!
Again, it just seems a bit much that everyone focuses on E/C being to blame here when Horatio didn't look for him, Natalia didn't, etc.
Let's just say that it was all TPTB's fault. They focused too much on Calleigh & Delko spending a night together instead of insisting on the whole team completely ignoring Ryan's missing.
And yep we tended to blame E/C, but I think we all did it just b/c that what TPTB focused on. It would have been much easier w/ Natalia eating a toast & Frank shaving his already bald head :lol:
That can be seen as good and bad. I don't necessarily think it's a good thing that Ryan is the first one H thinks of when he needs someone to betray someone else's trust within the team. It just makes Ryan look worse in my eyes because you feel like just when you start to trust him, he gives you another reason not to.
Gotta agree w/ you on this one
I know, I know we aren't ever likely to agree on that...:lol:
We're so not going to agree on this oney, but it's not a problm...at all :lol:
Eric usually almost always takes responsibility for his actions
Exactly! That's another reason why I almost threw up during that scene :lol:
Also, I disagree that it’s his fault or his mistake put Calleigh in danger. Sorry but yes, he took notes and yes he dropped them and Calleigh picked them up at a scene. At this point no one was in danger. Her life was put in danger by Cooper when HE decided to take what he had seen and put it on the internet for the world to see and then posted Calleigh’s phone number for anyone to call her.
Ok let's put in this way :lol:.
He had that cheat sheet & normally no one, who's a CSI, should have it since it should be a very competent person. This thing lead into different directions:
-some times Calleigh Duquesne can be really stupid & yeah she took that piece of paper. When she took it, Cooper saw her & saw that paper. That's exactly what gave him the brilliant idea to create that hilarious site. OFC, we all know what that site created.
- Calleigh had to retake her proficiencies b/c of it. She had to do it b/c it looked like she tempered w/ evidence & as if she didn't know what her job was like. I mean she was "The CSI w/ the cheat sheet". Her credibility sank along w/ her reputation thanks to Cooper's website.
-Calleigh took the GSR from a suspect & she couldn't used that evidence b/c oh yeah she just got suspended b/c of that sheet. This got the suspect completely free.
This is what Calleigh mean when she said "putting people in danger". What if the suspect had killed another person while our CSIs were trying to find another way to arrest him just b/c their ballistic expert got suspended?
It’s almost like blaming a published author for writing a murder scene in his/her book and then someone takes that scene and commits an actual murder.
It's not like this. B/c of his INCOMPETENCE he got a person kidnapped, a suspect freee & lots of other people in danger if Calleigh hadn't passed his exams.
IMO Cooper is the one that put her in danger…why the heck should Eric resign because Cooper was stupid
Cooper should have ended up in a jail, possibely w/ the guard throwing the keys away.
Delko should have resigned b/c his incompetence put more than one person in danger, also b/c Cooper was yeah stupid, but disfuited his incompetence & Calleigh's stupidity :lol:
Yep. Didn’t like his response here either. However, the last time he told her how he felt she ended up becoming Jake’s girlfriend that afternoon.
Let's just say that I wanted to punch that Caleligh b/c I totally understood how Delko felt in that moment, but, again, TPTB know how to show some stupidity on this show :lol:
I also don’t see the puppy dog thing. During and after Jake, I saw someone doing their job and being there when she needed his help. That’s about it. Ok so AR does really have those kind of puppy dog eyes but I didn’t really see this guy pining. Other than his little hyperventilating fit he had when he saw them kiss in reception he kept his head down and did his job.
Let's just say that we see this thing in a completely different way :lol:
My point was if he is as incompetent as a lot of people think because of ALL the mistakes he’s supposedly made (I say supposedly because I can only count three (mixing solutions, double marking blood drop, and the proficiencies) then they could have easily had Ryan run the investigation. Also, they could have just as easily had Stetler or some unknown person who ranks as high as Horatio take over the investigation.
Then, again, writers know how to write some ridiculous stuff. Because there's no way Delko would have been able to lead any kind of investigation especially if you consider he has that silver bullet in his head & came back w/o any kind of rehab or tutor
(Presumed
Guilty and Divorce Party are good examples) As a matter of fact you really wouldn’t know these two were a couple in those episodes.
And that's how I would like to watch this show since they've been the onley episodes in which you could have some doubts on whether they were together or just working together.
You're absolutely right, you couldn't say that they were together in those episodes, but they were the only examples since they have been together. There's always an E/C moment.
It would be nice to have a happy medium thread where both sides could discuss both sides and see each other’s side without starting WWIII.
As long as we keep the discussion like this, I think it's entirely possible since I'd love to see a civil discussions between the parts b/c "yes we can!"
IDK it’s almost like they can’t even be on the screen together or by themselves without some sort of negative thing said about them.
Let's just say that lots of poeple came to a point where they can't even stand a single scene together between these two also b/c in the last 3 years we have only had one episode when they have never shared a scene together. Can you believe it?
Would it be better if Eric or Calleigh left? Not unless they left together. Eric alone would end up killing Ryan. Calleigh alone would miss Eric too much.
:lol: I think you're right.
I don't want to see both go (as I've already stated, I would get rid of Calleigh.) Even one would be a trauma for the fans of that character.
It would be a really bad trauma for me, but I do wish all the best for Emily Procter so I want Caleligh to leave the show so that Emily could go on having the possibilety to get an award, something she'll never get as longs as she keeps playing Calleigh.
But I do believe that these characters can start a slow return to their basic selves. The original values, integrity and professionalism that made them so special in the beginining.
I honestly highly doubt Calleigh could ever get back to the one I used to love, even w/ a very slow return
Gosh this discussion is incredibely good! :thumbsup: