Will the REAL Danny Messer Please Stand Up?

[Top41]

Good points everyone!

kissmesweet said:
:lol: Thanks; that cheered me up. Even though I'm a DL fan, I do see how much Danny has changed. He's turned from teasing and fun to... a little bland and a pushover. But I'm sure that CBS will do a better job in the future episodes.

I agree about the change...even if they wanted to develop the romance angle, they didn't have to turn Danny into a pushover. Any normal human being would get angry about being stood up. Danny's reaction was just downright wimpy. He could have expressed some anger/irritation initially and then still asked her what was going on at the end of the episode.

detectdevotion said:
It's possible -- maybe not probable, but possible -- that this quieter Danny is also the product of what happened to Louie. I think he's come very close to losing two very important things thanks to his temper: his job AND his brother. Rather than attributing this to Lindsay, I see it as Danny realizing that it was his immediate anger at Louie for brushing him off that night at the stadium that lead to years of strife between the two. I see Danny as realizing that his temper has cost him a promotion and came very close to costing him his job -- and more than once.

That's a really good point and one I'll admit I hadn't considered. Danny's best moment (thusfar) this season was when he was talking to Shane about his brother. It's possible Danny has been doing some thinking, and that Louie's condition is eating away at him--I'd like to see more on screen dealing with that if that is the case.

But on the other hand, I'd like to see Danny get a little fired up again -- in appropriate situations. He's a passionate, protective guy, and I'd like to see him acting as such once again. It sounds like his protective side, at least, might come out in full force from the spoilers about episode 11, and it'll be nice to see him standing up for Hawkes.

I'm looking forward to that, too. Danny getting hot under the collar and upset is just downright interesting to watch. He gets emotionally involved when things happen to his friends, and I love seeing that.

Maybe we'll see some of the old fire back, but in a way more professionally acceptable than simply shrugging off everyone's good advice and acting like a hot-headed child. Not that I didn't like Season 1 Danny, but growth in a show like this, especially for a character like that, is vital.

I agree that he needed to change some of his methods, but not necessarily his personality. His methods were flawed and he did seem to be on the fast track to getting fired in season one, but it was that passion for his job and helping people that made him so interesting to watch. Danny cares about the victims/survivors of crime, and that's what seems to drive his quest to find out the truth (think 'Dancing with the Fishes,' 'Bad Beat,' 'Hush,' etc.). When he defied Mac in 'Crime and Misdemeanor,' it was because he wanted to be certain the victim wasn't murdered, not just because he was being a brat. There's a humanity to Danny that makes him compelling, and I don't want to see that dropped in favor of making him just another CSI in lock step with the rest.

 

[dutch_treat]

Haven't seen "Open and shut" so I don't know if something particular happens in that ep that made Top41 start this topic, so my opinion is based upon everything before that.

To me it's all the REAL Danny Messer. I think the character has evolved during the most recent years of his life. Due to several factors like having a job he loves, good friends, being appreciated as a person, etc. Besides that some really shocking things have happenend to people close to him which must have made him very aware of his own vulnerability.

Do not all of us have periodes in our life where we are looking at things and behaving different than say a few years before. One day maturity comes knockin' and it still is great to let the child within come out and play every now and then, but you cannot spent your entire life as a hot headed adolescent.

And of course the temper and the anger on some level are still there and at some point we will certainly see them resurface. The combination of season 1, 2 and 3 Danny just makes him more interesting (to me).

And as for how much Carmine does or does not like to play his role we will only know for sure by asking him *raises hand to volunteer . Perhaps he does have a say in his lines/character and suggested himself to make Danny calmer. I can imagine it must be tiresome to play (and watch) a character that is just so emotional all of the time.

 

[MrsGiovinazzo]

*applauds Top for starting this thread and fully concurs with her opening remarks*

Season 3 Danny sucks. He's pleasing to the eye, but so what? So is every other guy on TV. They've made Danny's shirts tighter this season and sexed him up a bit, but they're missing the point. That's not why we want(ed?) to nail him.

What made Danny hot in seasons 1 and 2 was his passion, intensity, strength of convictions, sassiness, balls, fire. Phrase it however you like. Danny was among the best written characters on TV. He was dynamic and good at heart, though flawed. Sometimes you wanted to smack him and sometimes you wanted to lend him your shoulder, but you always responded to him in some way. He reacted (and sometimes over-reacted) to everything with passion, which in-turn made the viewer react strongly to him. Not everyone loved season 1 and 2 Danny. Some hated him as passionately as others loved him. But that's what made the character great. One way or the other, everyone had something to say about him.

That's no longer the case. The Locker Room thread is moving at the speed of molasses while the popularity of Flack and Hawkes is skyrocketing. In fact, for some, the only way to maintain interest in Danny is to fantasize about him and Flack. Why? A good percentage of Danny's fans would rather watch Flack [CENSORED] him than bother to do the deed themselves because they're just that damn bored.

Danny's recent reaction to Lindsey standing him up left many of the die-hard Danny fans scratching their heads. Is that the beginning of the end of that character as we knew him? A guy with Danny's background would have the balls to be pissed. He'd have told her to f*** off. He would never stand out in the street pathetically begging her to grab a slice of pizza and then completely defer to her, leaving the ball entirely in her court.

It's not just the Lindsey thing though. Mismatched, miscast and chemistry-less as that pairing is, Danny could potentially still be Danny even with his balls in Lindsey's purse if the rest of his character remained intact. But it's not.

Danny's energy has been replaced with a mellow maturity. In the real world, that would be great. Real people evolve and mature. Fictional characters don't have to though. That's the beauty of fiction. The characters can be larger-than-life, nuanced in a way not often seen in reality. And when a character is written as well as Danny was, it should be left unchanged.

The way Danny was initially written was as if penned specifically to play into Carmine's acting strengths. He is absolutely fantastic with the dramatic, emotional stuff. The casting and character were a seamless match. However, he falls flat with the romance and can easily blend into the background when not given strong storylines and sharp dialogue.

Bring back Danny as we knew him. Put him front and center. Let him throw an occassional fit or be a little immature. He was always interesting. Always strong and passionate. Now he's on Prozac and old Danny fans are getting bored.

 

[Springmoon]

Well-said, everyone. I feel like I'm just reiterating what several people have already said... but I'm going to weigh in anyway :lol:

The thing about Danny as a character was the feistiness and the willingness to toe that line. He was spirited, passionate, and so all-round well-developed that you empathized with him at the same time you wanted to smack him upside the head to make him think about his actions and their consequences.

It's all well and good to have the character mature, but that does not mean that maturity should come at the expense of his spirited nature. The writers could have allowed him to grow up without pussifying him (yes, there's that word again!) and now he's like a kid with ADD who's been drugged up to his eyeballs. He could be doing the nasty with Lindsay for all I care (well, I do, but that's neither here nor there) but this new Danny barely registers on my radar. I'm looking at Eddie and Hawkes and even Sid a lot more now than before because they're so much more interesting.

I would love to seem him throw a tantrum again. It may well be that all of this is leading up to some bombshell revelation about the fate of his brother that has been weighing on him for the last 5 months, but he can still show *some* emotion. Bleh. Bring back Danny!

 

[ThumpyG]

I do appreciate all of the replies thus far and to concur with a few.

Just something that I wanted to say here is that it is sad how the writers have morphed Danny into this overly mature creature from the neatherworld. :lol: It is also interesting how they are trying to beef up others character development, but at the same time they are sacrificing Danny's character, which is horribly wrong.

The more I think about it, the more I am not wanting to watch this season, because one of the main things that I like about the show is the character of Danny, the old Danny, that is. His passion for his work and what is right and wrong is something that I can identify with, and his stepping on a few toes to get something is what makes Danny unique.

 

[EllaJ]

I've lost A LOT of interest in this show and I think the changes they've made to Danny's character have a lot to do with it. I agree with everyone who's said he's fading into the background. Sure you can make him mature but at least over a gradual time period.

 

[crankyjules]

Interesting discussion people!

hidinginmyeyes said:
Now that I have seasons one and two on DVD, I'm going to watch it all in a marathon and really try to analyze the character development of Danny Messer.

I intend doing exactly that myself. I'm obviously not seeing the changes as drastically as others are, and I need to go back and compare.

It has occured to me more than once, (and I'm hope I'm wrong) that perhaps Carmine is getting tired of playing the role. Period. Not tired of how they are writing his character, but just tired of being Danny Messer. Like I said, I hope I'm wrong!!!

I hope you are too!! And I admit, this thought has crossed my mind, albeit very briefly. I've also wondered, again flittingly, if there is something in Carmine's personal life, eg falling in luuuuurv since season 2 (not starting a rumour!!! :lol: ) that has made him concentrate less on work and more on other things, or 'mellowed' him so that transfers through to Danny Just thoughts. Although, I have to say, in the email reply I got during his last 'spurt' back in July, he sounded very revved up to go. He seems like a guy who is passionate about everything he does so I'm thinking it would be out of character for him to not be putting 100% into the work.

detectdevotion said:
But I have to also agree with the fact that had Danny continued on the path he was on in Season 1, he would have been fired long ago. I think what we're seeing is an attempt to show that Messer has learned his lesson -- unfortunately, I think they didn't spend enough time developing this over time. Instead, the character we're seeing now seems a bit muted.

It's possible -- maybe not probable, but possible -- that this quieter Danny is also the product of what happened to Louie. I think he's come very close to losing two very important things thanks to his temper: his job AND his brother. Rather than attributing this to Lindsay, I see it as Danny realizing that it was his immediate anger at Louie for brushing him off that night at the stadium that lead to years of strife between the two. I see Danny as realizing that his temper has cost him a promotion and came very close to costing him his job -- and more than once.

Oh GOOD POINT!! I hadn't thought it that way. It makes perfect sense. And from the very beginning, he has invested so much of himself in proving himself to Mac. He desperately wants his approval.

MrsGiovinazzo said:
He's pleasing to the eye, but so what? So is every other guy on TV. They've made Danny's shirts tighter this season and sexed him up a bit, but they're missing the point. That's not why we want(ed?) to nail him.

We know that they have noticed the fangirl's adoration of Danny from the 'Danny-in-a-tank-top' comment on the S2 dvds And decided they'd build on the physical aspect of that ... (. They obviously don't read the boards too closely then

Danny's energy has been replaced with a mellow maturity.

THAT'S IT!!! That's the word ... 'energy'. That's what I'm missing in Danny these days. Thanks for the clarity MrsG

ThumpyG said:
It is also interesting how they are trying to beef up others character development, but at the same time they are sacrificing Danny's character, which is horribly wrong.

I recently read the old chat transcripts. I remember Hill Harper saying something about that in S3 they were going to do some development of the characters 'lower down on the food chain'. That gives me the heebies just a little because I can see them dropping the ball on Danny.

Phew. This was a long one. So much to respond to. Sorry

 

[jolein]

I still don`t see what is so bad about the changes with danny.
Saying that he isn`t the center of attention is a non argument in my opinion.
If anything I think he is even more the center of attention,but I guess not in the way most people like it on this site at least.
Lindsay is not the reason he`s changed,but i guess with a the Lindsay bashing going on people have a problem to have an unclouded judgement.
People changes,not only charaters but also actors,it`s as simple as that.

But reading this thread and some of the others threads made me realise again why I don`t come here anymore.
There is too much negativety and clouded judgement to have a decent and normal discussion

 

[keich]

I agree, Danny has changed since the first season. I'd love to see him get emotional and out of control again, but I don't mind how he is right now. Maybe Aiden's death and Lindsay's arrival had a hand in making the new Danny, but quite frankly I don't care. I like him, but I'm not crazy about him.

 

[Kimmychu]

Okay, my first post in this thread was deliberately silly. Here's my *gasp* serious take on the situation.

Change is good. It's what gives variety and excitement to life. In TV shows, change is good. If it's done right. The real issue here, I think, isn't that Danny's changing, but that he's changing too fast. Add that with the writers using the show's most popular character as a crutch of sorts to make the audience warm up as quick as possible to the new character ... and what you get is a lot of dissent and dissatisfaction among the fans of the show.

For the record, I don't dislike Lindsay. What I find disappointing is how she was introduced to the show, as well as how she's being developed so far as a major character. I'm sure there'll be others who disagree with me on this, but I think the writers definitely changed Danny's character because of Lindsay's inclusion into the show.

It was pretty blatant the writers intended her to be Danny's love interest from the instant she appeared. That's nothing to be huffy or angry about though, as a situation like this can really turn out good if it's written and acted out well. The problem is, chemistry isn't something that just pops up like magic at a writer's or actor's beck and call. This is where the writers decided overkill hints about a potential relationship between the two characters was a good idea to get the audience to accept the concept. Problem is, viewers aren't brainless. We actually think and have the capability of noticing subtle hints, ya know. And having something shoved down the throat is never fun. I don't know about anyone else, but I prefer to make up my own mind over time about relationships on the show, rather than having it overshadow everything and be forced into liking it.

As for Lindsay's character, people may not like her not so much because of her personality or quirks or anything, but because her character is unstable. It seems like the writers are having a hard time trying to decide what she should be like. So if the writers themselves are having a difficult time shaping her up, the audience would have an even more baffling time doing the same. I have a feeling they got too hung up on getting viewers to like her, figured attaching her to Danny would do the trick and thought that was enough. However, what happened is that she ended up becoming something like Danny's 'shadow'. She became a character who couldn't really stand on her own without Danny in the picture. For a new character like hers, especially one that was brought in to replace a former character who was liked by fans, that's bad news.

So, yes, I'm actually glad that the D/L relationship didn't go canon, because this will mean Lindsay will finally have the chance to grow independantly, as she should have from the start. I guess this whole fandom wank over her is great proof that first impressions really do make all the difference. And hopefully, the writers will bring back Danny's fiery persona without overshadowing the other characters and without ignoring the events he's experienced in the past seasons. Considering what he's gone through, I'm amazed he didn't become more edgy and short-fused. There's certainly nothing wrong with change in Danny's character, but not when it's at the cost of turning him into someone else completely.

 

[chaostheory08]

Yes, change is good. The problem is, change is not always for the better.

This is my major problem with the writers. The characters/actors have nothing to do with it. They are just pawns in the game played by TPTB.

One of my major problems with the writers and/or TPTB -- they make very drastic changes with a snap of the fingers. From what I'm reading, they did a 180 on Danny. That is, I guess, a shocking change -- knowing that Danny is one of the most compelling and interesting characters on the show.

For the past 2 seasons, we saw him almost being on the front and center of every episode. Seeing him on the sidelines may seem a bit off. I hope they realize not to do it again.

 

[Guest]

When I first started watching the show, I didn't like Danny all that much. I don't like hot-headed, unstable men and that's how I saw him. I started watching the show because it was CSI and because I love Gary Sinise as an actor. I used to a be bonafide born-and-raised-in-California-you-couldn't-pay-me-to-go-to-New-York kinda person, but after watching the show for two plus years, my friend and I are planning a trip there. But the character of Danny was the epitome of what I didn't like about New York. But, now, he's more stable, more mature, does more thinking and less acting out. I like that better. Maybe it's because I am a laid-back Southern Californian. Do you think it makes a difference where you're from and what kind of people you are used to being around? Hm. I realize that my former prejudice against New York was just that: prejudice and I'm glad I got over it. People can change for the better. Anyway, I think the fact that I like the mellowing of Danny Messer probably does have something to do with where I'm from and what kind of people I'm comfortable being around.

 

[MrsGiovinazzo]

hidinginmyeyes said:
When I first started watching the show, I didn't like Danny all that much. I don't like hot-headed, unstable men and that's how I saw him. ... the character of Danny was the epitome of what I didn't like about New York. But, now, he's more stable, more mature, does more thinking and less acting out. I like that better. Maybe it's because I am a laid-back Southern Californian. Do you think it makes a difference where you're from and what kind of people you are used to being around? ... I think the fact that I like the mellowing of Danny Messer probably does have something to do with where I'm from and what kind of people I'm comfortable being around.

Sure, I think that plays into it to a certain degree. People naturally gravitate to what's familiar to them. For me, part of the attraction of season 1 Danny is that in his suit and glasses he looked like every guy I've ever dated. I'm an attorney and all my relationships have been with other similarly educated/suit-wearing people. Danny looked familiar to me, but what sucked me in is that his personality was completely foreign to me. That whole hot-headed, tempermental, emotional thing is entirely outside my realm of experience. I don't know any real life Danny's. That made him unexpected and, frankly, just plain freakin' HOT to me.

Now his appearance has changed into something rougher and more overtly sexual. He no longer looks familiar to me so I'm not drawn to him in the same way. But at the same time, his personality has evolved (far too quickly) into this mellow, mature person that is exactly like every man I know. That doesn't hold my interest so much because he's no longer this volatile, passionate character who might do something unexpected. They're turning him into an average guy.

Danny was never average. His character had fire and spunk. Bring back old Danny!!!

 

[Guest]

Now see, to me I am from the south. I have a really hard time with the accent of RI, NY, Boston, etc. though I know we have a weird sound to them. BUT, there is just something about this guy that made me stop looking at NYers that way. I have ALWAYS said..."I never have a need to go to the north, I have no interest in NY and so on and so forth." Now, I think I would love to go see NY. I have always been level headed in guys. Not the bad boys thing at all. I mean....well....you know. But there is something about Danny's character that I am like....OK, now weither or not he is from NY I could get into him. I think that lil' devil in me would definately come out. :devil: I think the character seeming to touch on the side of ADHD....or so it seems to me (only b/c I have it and he does alot I do) just makes him that much more interesting. I like it when he flys by the seat of his pants. However, I like it too when he is cool and reasonable.

My hubby told me when I was 22 that I would simmer down and become more level headed once I reached my 30's. Maybe Danny has reached is "puberty" so to say in emotions and actions. It isn't always fun...but it is what makes his character what it is. Intriguing, mysterious, enchanting, overpowering, and most of all SEXY!

Perhaps maybe we will see the old Danny peep his head out and arouse our senses. I like to see that on occassion. But for now I won't nick pick, I just enjoy the view.

 

[ThumpyG]

I know and believe that people mature and that a minimal amount of maturing on Danny's part is to be expected. That is a given. I just think that the maturity that the writers have put on Danny at this point is more than I can really stand! :lol: Don't get me wrong, I still think that he is one sexy man and I would love to get a piece of that action, :lol: even if he has matured. That will never change!

I just think that there is a noticable change in Danny that greatly affects his character and who he is, hot-headed, passionate, and a little rough around the edges. In a word: HOT. Not the norm, really. As far as the types of men that I choose to date, that honestly has varied, from simmerly educated to me being much more educated.

Don't get me wrong, I like maturity, esp in a man. But Danny's maturity has just gone beyond the norm in this case, IMO. And as far as any negativity on characters and character development, I don't think that everyone here is negative, per se, it is just how people percieve it to be negative. I see it objectively and it being ones opinion. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, whether it be pro or con. That is what the greatest debates are made of: opposing opinions, and objectiveness, on both sides. I just do not understand why people are getting so sensitive about anothers OPINION. These are fictional characters, not real people that we are discussing here. I am not upset that there are ass loads of people that like the character of Lindsay, great! same with the new Danny, I think that it is great that some people like the changes in him (or don't see any difference at all). That makes for a great discussion, for those of us who don't like the changes to understand or see anothers view point.