Why Lindsay REALLY Must Go (Pt. 2)

[Top41]

It annoys me, too. I might have been able to stomach the Dindsay pairing if Danny's character hadn't been sacrificed in favor of the romance and propping up a character that wasn't worthwhile to begin with. Danny was my favorite character on the show not because of his good looks or the fact that he's got a great ass, but because the character was so damn passionate about everything he did. That's been lost or at least shoved to the side in favor of a run of the mill romance that's not even been handled very well.

Not to make assumptions about Carmine's feelings, but contrast his performance at the end of RSRD with the end of "Love Run Cold." I believed Danny was falling apart over his brother--Carmine owned that episode and that scene in particular. At the end of "Love Run Cold," I didn't buy that Danny had any enthusiasm for or attraction to Lindsay. The whole scene just fell flat.

The fact that Danny's character had to be changed to make him fit into this lame romance storyline just shows it's not serving his character--it's serving hers.

I hope Carmine's right and that he can come "out of the box like an animal" (or whatever he said) like he did in the first two seasons. But really, he needs to be freed of the albatross that is Anna/Lindsay.

The show needs to be freed of the albatross that is Anna/Lindsay.

 

[Faylinn]

During seasons one and two, that thread was very alive and well.

Actually, to be honest, the Non-Locker Room thread was not opened until December of last year. But it's easy to think that we've always had a discussion thread. After all, there was a time when the Locker Room threads had that sort of discussion mixed in with the fangirling--the steady decline in actual discussion was a long time in coming and ultimately resulted in MrsG opening a thread specifically for it. Discussion had to be in a separate thread because there just wasn't much of it and it was getting lost amid the "he's hot" squee.

And even then, most of what has been discussed in the Non-Locker Room thread is limited to Carmine's other roles, Danny's earlier development, and lamenting that this development has gone down the shitter more recently. That's not all, of course, but that's what comes to mind when I think of that thread.

Danny has become utterly generic, which fits with the utterly generic plots he's involved with. Since when is Danny Messer a pretty boy? Since when do tight shirts, designer shades, a phat pad and a (stereotypical and IMO inaccurate) 'bad boy/good girl' romance define who he is?

Carmine is fantastic, but even a fantastic Ken doll is still a Ken doll--and that doesn't appeal to me. It's a shame that Danny has been whittled down into a caricature of who he used to be, all for the sake of propping up a character who has shown no signs of standing on her own after nearly two years.

 

[Kimmychu]

Faylinn said:
Actually, to be honest, the Non-Locker Room thread was not opened until December of last year. But it's easy to think that we've always had a discussion thread. After all, there was a time when the Locker Room threads had that sort of discussion mixed in with the fangirling--the steady decline in actual discussion was a long time in coming and ultimately resulted in MrsG opening a thread specifically for it.

Whoops, me bad. Guess I subconsciously mashed the serious discussions in the old Locker Room threads with those in the official serious thread ... which would technically mean that there has been serious discussion about Carmine/Danny since the beginning.

But yeah, I am sad. The serious thread was opened less than a year ago ... and it's already teh deaded for months. What does that say?! We must go revive it again! Somehow.

 

[Faylinn]

which would technically mean that there has been serious discussion about Carmine/Danny since the beginning.

Exactly, that's what I meant--we've always had discussion about him, but there used to be enough of it to actually hold its own against the arm!porn and the ass picture. In recent months, the former has been sadly overwhelmed by the latter--hence the need for a special thread just for discussion.

I'm not sure how we'd revive it, other than re-hashing the development that they gave Danny and then pushed aside. I might not feel as annoyed by putting continuity on the back burner in favor of storylines if they treated romances the same way--they should take a backseat to continuity, if you ask me.

I really wish that Lindsay was (at the very least) a character I wasn't fond of by design, rather than being a character that I'm meant to like but just can't manage to tolerate.

 

[cSiNyFrEaK30]

Top41 said:
It annoys me, too. I might have been able to stomach the Dindsay pairing if Danny's character hadn't been sacrificed in favor of the romance and propping up a character that wasn't worthwhile to begin with. Danny was my favorite character on the show not because of his good looks or the fact that he's got a great ass, but because the character was so damn passionate about everything he did. That's been lost or at least shoved to the side in favor of a run of the mill romance that's not even been handled very well.

I totally agree. Danny Messer was my favorite character for the same reasons. When he first came around, i believed that he was the most dynamic character with the most potential, not only on CSINY but on TV at the time. He was real, he was flawed, he was human. He was always a pleasure to watch before the whole D/L thing...if it could be written to be an asset to his character, i wouldnt mind it either...but it hasn't.

The fact that Danny's character had to be changed to make him fit into this lame romance storyline just shows it's not serving his character--it's serving hers.

And its not even serving it well! Its just making her even more of an immature and undeveloped character, because she only survives because of it.

I hope Carmine's right and that he can come "out of the box like an animal" (or whatever he said) like he did in the first two seasons. But really, he needs to be freed of the albatross that is Anna/Lindsay.

The show needs to be freed of the albatross that is Anna/Lindsay.

Couldn't have said it better. Lindsay is dragging him and the show down...i really hope they are free of her soon, or else there wont be any hope in the future for my favorite show

 

[Top41]

cSiNyFrEaK30 said:
I totally agree. Danny Messer was my favorite character for the same reasons. When he first came around, i believed that he was the most dynamic character with the most potential, not only on CSINY but on TV at the time. He was real, he was flawed, he was human. He was always a pleasure to watch before the whole D/L thing...if it could be written to be an asset to his character, i wouldnt mind it either...but it hasn't.

Yeah, definitely. I didn't mind the flirting or when she was trying to get his attention. It was when he turned into a doormat with no other character development besides this blossoming "romance" that I got irritated.

What I keep coming back to is the fact that after two years on the show, Lindsay still needs propping up. Two years. That's 46 episodes (not counting the first two eps of season 2)! That's a long time. Why, if the character is so great, so essential--if Anna's acting is so strong--after all this time does she still need to be propped up by another character?

Doesn't that really say it all? I think the evidence speaks for itself.

 

[Joolz]

It's got so far as my heart sinking every time I see a mention of Lindsay in the spoilers........and on the 'Boo' spoiler, jeez. I've a feeling it's gonna be a cushion episode, not for the horror of the actual content, but for the horror of Lindsay's lame acting.....Some days I'm almost afraid of what's coming next.........I used to really look forwards to spoilers and episodes, but now, with all this time and other character denigration (Danny) It's more of a chore than a pleasure.......The only episodes last season I got a buzz from (other than the Shane Casey arc and the finale, although I was livid at THAT scene) were the ones that she was either very much in the background or gone altogether. Everything seemed to slot together so much more easily with her.

 

[althea]

Season 3 just started here (yep how sad is that?!) And already Lindsay little miss know it all's attitude is driving me to the remote control gawd the woman is absolute awful. Really nice (sarcastic) to see she still thinks she knows everything when she actually doesn't. I am so looking forward to the episodes when Anna went off to have a baby and leaves the lab a much saner place. I read that the D/L think happened simply because the actors had kind of hit it off and the writers just decided on whim to create this heaven forbid i call it a relationship! I mean the mere fact that D/L was created spontaneously just shows how under developed the entire thing has been because there had been no actual thought put into it. So what would Lindsay Monroe actually be like if there was no D/L i wonder?

 

[Faylinn]

So what would Lindsay Monroe actually be like if there was no D/L i wonder?

At this point, I'd say more useless than she already is. I don't think she does anything that another character couldn't do--and do better, probably. Except maybe the scrunch face, that's uniquely her. And being all "Me! Me! Me!"...ok, make that: I don't think she does anything constructive that another character couldn't do, and do better.

If a recurring character doesn't work, they don't come back. (How many people remember Zack? Hands? Only three of us? Thought so.) Lindsay is lucky she was a regular from the get-go if you ask me.

there had been no actual thought put into it.

I absolutely think they should have given it more thought before pushing forward with it. Anything that involves Lindsay tends to have a half-ass feeling to it. One can only hope they'll manage to pleasantly surprise some of us in season 4--Lord knows I could use something that would make me more confident about this show.

 

[althea]

Until you mentioned Zach I had actually forgotten all about him :lol: I mean when exactly did he leave? So the same can be said for Lindsay had there been no D/L ship she would have drifted off into obscurity without any of us giving a damn. Because when it comes down to it Lindsay Monroe is the most useless character around and the hardest to like.

 

[Celefinwe]

I haven't really watched the third season, which is why I haven't really contributed to this thread, but I have been avidly following this thread. I've noticed that all of the posts are passionately written and well thought about before being put down into words. I guess this just goes to show how many, heck, probably everyone on this thread really, really wants Lindsay to go. I mean, if CSI:NY was only coming to the third season, I would just simply want Anna to buck up and Lindsay to just grow up but seriously... as many have pointed out time and time again, two seasons in and a major character still needs another character to prop her up? That's just plainly a waste of television space.

Many new characters that were introduced to replace previous ones have done quite well for themselves. Jonathan Togo was introduced on Miami to replace Tim Roth. He quickly established his character and is one of the more popular characters on Miami today. I don't see this happening with Lindsay's character, do you? Either CSI:Miami has better writers that NY, or maybe Jonathan is just a better actor than Anna. Either way, CSINY is just to good a show to have a single person (actress or character) bring it down. I never missed NY season 1 and tried really hard not to miss an epi from season 2. Season 3? Hmmph. I get nosebleeds trying to ignore how annoying Anna is as Lindsay and how much it grates my nerves to have me believe that a charismatic character like Danny Messer could fall for a simpering, whiny, wishy-washy character like Lindsay Monroe.

Honestly, if the writers skim through the forums once in a while, why on earth haven't they been paying attention to this thread?

 

[althea]

Honestly, if the writers skim through the forums once in a while, why on earth haven't they been paying attention to this thread?

I think they are holding onto Anna Belknap because she is so nice. I mean in every freaking interview with someone working on CSI NY they are always saying she is sooo nice. You guys honestly I feel like this is a story of The Emperor's New Clothes. Everyone knew the dude was walking around naked but didn't say anything. Anna sucks and everyone at CSI NY is completely oblivious about it.

 

[Top41]

It's interesting that no one really goes on about her, the way they go on about the other actors. Yeah, of course there are the obligatory "she's great" comments (because really, who's going to say a co-worker sucks in public?), but you get examples and details when the other cast members are talked about.

And I think that's part of it--the rest of this cast is so damn good. Even the supporting cast--look at Adam! AJ Buckley turned Adam into a vibrant character with just a few short scenes and basically earned his slot as a regular.

Anna was basically handed the regular position--by her own admission, her audition sucked. I think they gave her the part because they thought she looked cute and sweet and midwestern, which was what they were going for with the character after they moved away from the blonde Summer Hamilton description. I think you guys are right--if she had been introduced as a recurring character and not a regular, she might be gone by now because she clearly doesn't belong.

I think they were a little too hasty in replacing Aiden.

 

[Danistheman]

althea said: I think they are holding onto Anna Belknap because she is so nice. I mean in every freaking interview with someone working on CSI NY they are always saying she is sooo nice.

A very important point, but remember sometimes when people do not want to sound negative/unprofessional/hurt someone's feelings...it's NOT what they say but what they DON'T say!
She may be a nice person but that DOES NOT automatically mean that she is a good (or even mediocre!) actress!
I'm watching Season 3 for the 2nd time (they are re-running here in the UK) and Scrunch Munroe is getting on my t*ts even more than the 1st showing. Luckily we are near the episodes when she goes on maternity leave Last night she was working with Stella in Consequences and she was sooooo goddamn lifeless in every scene. It's not just the face it's the tone (or lack of it!) in her voice.

 

[Kimmychu]

Okay, who in hades is Zack? :lol: I remember Chad and Giles and Jane but ... Zack? :lol: Oh dear, I can't remember a Zack at all.

About whether the writers visit TalkCSI forums, yes, Peter Lenkov has hinted at doing so after mentioning that he told Carmine Giovinazzo about us fangirls wanting to see him bare it all. (Aren't we a naughty bunch? :devil However, whether this particular thread gets a look through is something we can only speculate. I'd be surprised if the writers didn't browse it, seeing as Lindsay was the new addition to the cast and by default, the character who'll undergo the most scrutiny and criticsm by the viewers. I'm sure they'll be curious to know how people are responding to their Canon Sue. I mean, their awesome, infallible, supercool heroine.

As for why Anna Belknap was hired and such, it's something we can merely speculate too. Unless somebody gets the opportunity to hear the total truth from the folks over at the CSI:NY building ... we'll never know what happened. I gotta say, though, Anna herself gave us some major insight into the issue via her TalkCSI interview. It still both amuses and grates at me that she actually admitted her audition was bad and she made Hill sweet talk TPTB to get her the job. That, I believe, explains volumes about why things are the way they are on the show now.

And about Anna Belknap being so nice ... well, unless somebody who personally knows her and is honest about her speaks up, it's yet another thing we can only speculate about. I do find it kinda funny that those working on the show say the same thing about her when they're asked what they feel about her: nice. It's like they were given orders to say just that and nothing else. :lol: I remember Eddie Cahill and Hill Harper saying she was nice. I think Carmine Giovinazzo once said the same thing when he was asked about her. The one person who's sung high praises about her is ... Anthony Zuiker. :lol: :lol: :lol: Man, his 'jaw-dropping' comment about her acting in that courtroom scene still cracks me up big time. Really makes me wonder if something's going on behind the scenes, hmmm.

I know there are some people who are accusing those of us posting here of bashing Anna Belknap, saying that 'she's such a nice person and therefore, deserves the job.' To that, I say:

One, there's a huge difference between bashing and constructive criticism. I can't speak for all the posters here, but I can see the majority of the posts in this thread and the previous Why Lindsay Must go thread are carefully contemplated and stated. The fact that we've had over 1000 posts about why she should leave the show says a great deal, no?

Two, Anna Belknap may be the nicest human being on earth, and it won't make a difference because it's not her personality that's under criticism here. It's her capability as an actress that is. Her ability to convey emotion and specific behaviors as the script dictates highly influences how Lindsay is perceived on the show, as well as determine how believable Lindsay is as a character. Not only that, because this is a show with main cast of at least over a half dozen people, her acting ability will also affect how the others on the cast work.

As we've seen since the moment she joined the team ... her acting skills are subpar compared to the others. It's particularly apparent whenever she has to portray very strong emotions. Heck, sometimes she even seems to have difficulty just doing regular small talk. Think of that scene with Danny and Flack in the cellar. Danny and Flack were bouncing their dialogue off each other like a fantastic ping pong game, but the instant Lindsay had to speak, it was as if they had to purposely slow down so she wouldn't be 'left behind'. I don't quite know how else to elucidate on that.

And of course, one of the biggest gripes we have is the horrible character assassination of Danny Messer solely for the sake of integrating Lindsay into the show. The fact that Carmine Giovinazzo mentioned Danny was used to prop Lindsay up is very saddening. As many of you have said in previous posts, a main character still needing propping after two whole seasons is not good. If the writers continue to use Danny as nothing more than a doormat-come-prop, I'm afraid to say the former passionate, hot Danny we once knew isn't going to make a comeback any time soon. I'm even more afraid to say that Danny's character might be as f***ed as Lindsay's is by now, but Carmine Giovinazzo is a very skilled actor as proven by some of the best episodes of the show. I'm clinging onto the slim hope that his promise will hold true and the fiery, animalistic Danny will return.

Annnnnd I'll shut up now.