Why Lindsay REALLY Must Go (Pt. 2)

[xfcanadian]

Carrieattheprom said:

I'm surprised they removed all the mooshy D/L moments from Boo that were in the spoliers. I'm relieved, but a little confused. It makes me wonder what will happen with the future shows, not just possible D/L moments, but all the scenes.

This is the problem with putting two main characters together, they are going to try to please everyone, but it just doesn't work. They try to cut down the scenes, and then the shippers get upset about it, and then the storyline doesn't really develop because they cut down the scenes. And because of this, the storyline just gets worse for people who really hate it.

One thing i am beginning to notice, it seems like Danny doesn't really care anymore. His acting is starting to suffer a lot. I understand that carmine might not be too happy about D/L but he should still be a professional. I am not trying to bash him, but we shouldn't be able to tell that he doesn't care for a storyline through his acting. Or maybe Danny is supposed to be acting like that, who knows. I don't read the spoilers, so i have no idea what is going to happen.

I actually don't have a problem with her lack of emotions, or her character's inability to express them. I am similar to this, so to me it just makes the show more realistic. There are unlikable people in real life, they can't all be winners. I understand that these character traits are probably the result of some bad acting, but thats ok. I do think her acting has gotten worse since she had her baby. Maybe fatigue? I can understand how this would annoy people though.

 

[Faylinn]

What I would want... a scene with Lindsey and Flack. A conversation between the "girlfriend" and the best friend.

chaos, darling, you know how that would go--the writers would include something overly contrived where Flack has big smile on his face while he was like 'Yay, I'm so happy for you guys, you guys love each other, yay, my best friend is happy with the love of his life and this makes me happy and yay!'

*snickers* Well, that would definitely convince me of the relationship's validity.

 

[Lorelai]

Faylinn said:

What I would want... a scene with Lindsey and Flack. A conversation between the "girlfriend" and the best friend.

chaos, darling, you know how that would go--the writers would include something overly contrived where Flack has big smile on his face while he was like 'Yay, I'm so happy for you guys, you guys love each other, yay, my best friend is happy with the love of his life and this makes me happy and yay!'

*snickers* Well, that would definitely convince me of the relationship's validity.

Well, they already made Carmine/Danny say the have "chemistry" ( poor man) so it wouldn't surprise me if they make Eddie/Flack say he thinks that they are born to make the perfect heart together. That would be kinda ironic. I don't know if it's true or not, but I heard a rumor about TPTB wanting to make Flack and Lindsay a couple and Eddie saying no, thanks. Again, no idea if it's true or not, but if it's true, poor Carmine, I don't think he still got a saying. :lol:

I understand that carmine might not be too happy about D/L but he should still be a professional. I am not trying to bash him, but we shouldn't be able to tell that he doesn't care for a storyline through his acting. Or maybe Danny is supposed to be acting like that, who knows. I don't read the spoilers, so i have no idea what is going to happen.

See, I think it's Danny who doesn't care anymore. I don't it's Carmine not giving a 100%, but Danny falling out of the so called love he felt for her. Why? Because Carmine is still amazing in his scenes with the others on the cast. So:
A. Danny is getting bored with Montanaaa.
B. It's too hard for Carmine to work with AB.

 

[privatename]

Faylinn said:

What I would want... a scene with Lindsey and Flack. A conversation between the "girlfriend" and the best friend.

chaos, darling, you know how that would go--the writers would include something overly contrived where Flack has big smile on his face while he was like 'Yay, I'm so happy for you guys, you guys love each other, yay, my best friend is happy with the love of his life and this makes me happy and yay!'

*snickers* Well, that would definitely convince me of the relationship's validity.

Okay, I really don't want to see this on my screen. That would be nauseating. If I get a vote (I know that I don't) but if I were to get a vote, I would vote for no big scene such as the one described between Lindsay and Flack. Actually, I don't really want to see a scene between Lindzzz and Flack, but that is just me.

 

[Top41]

xfcanadian said:
One thing i am beginning to notice, it seems like Danny doesn't really care anymore. His acting is starting to suffer a lot. I understand that carmine might not be too happy about D/L but he should still be a professional. I am not trying to bash him, but we shouldn't be able to tell that he doesn't care for a storyline through his acting. Or maybe Danny is supposed to be acting like that, who knows. I don't read the spoilers, so i have no idea what is going to happen.

On a basic level, I agree, but I feel bad for Carmine. He spent two years crafting a great character only to spend the last season and a quarter being used to prop up an actress who can't hold her own. So while it might not be the most professional response to that, I can see where he'd be frustrated, and I sympathize with him. He deserves better.

I actually don't have a problem with her lack of emotions, or her character's inability to express them. I am similar to this, so to me it just makes the show more realistic. There are unlikable people in real life, they can't all be winners. I understand that these character traits are probably the result of some bad acting, but thats ok. I do think her acting has gotten worse since she had her baby. Maybe fatigue? I can understand how this would annoy people though.

So you can excuse Anna's inferior acting but take Carmine to task for expressing frustration over a poor storyline for his character? That seems a bit hypocritical to me.

Either way, I guess it's hard to justify Anna being employed on a primetime TV show when she's clearly putting minimal effort in. Combined with her extremely limited talent, it makes for subpar acting. There are so many great actresses out there that are much more deserving of a role on CSI: NY. The world isn't always fair, but, in this case, I don't think it is ok.

As for a Flack and Lindsay scene, I'd love to see one if they played up Flack's frustration with Lindsay's egotism and the way she treats Danny. Eddie didn't turn down the storyline, but he expressed relief that it wasn't his character in Danny's position when he said something along the lines of "not for me" with regards to whether Flack would put up with Lindsay's behavior. But Flack doesn't have the low self-esteem problems Danny has.

 

[Lorelai]

On a basic level, I agree, but I feel bad for Carmine. So while it might not be the most professional response to that, I can see where he'd be frustrated, and I sympathize with him. He deserves better.

I guess we should be grateful Carmine/Danny is still on the show, and we don't have to miss him like we miss Aiden. And like I said, I see his performance with the rest of the cast just perfect .

He spent two years crafting a great character only to spend the last season and a quarter being used to prop up an actress who can't hold her own.

Gotta feel for him. S3 must have been frustrating for the actor, after such strong seasons like 1 & 2.

Eddie didn't turn down the storyline, but he expressed relief that it wasn't his character in Danny's position when he said something along the lines of "not for me" with regards to whether Flack would put up with Lindsay's behavior.

Aha.. Can't blame the man. :lol:

But Flack doesn't have the low self-esteem problems Danny has.

True. The relationship with Danny feels wrong, but with Flack it would have been impossible.

As for a Flack and Lindsay scene, I'd love to see one if they played up Flack's frustration with Lindsay's egotism and the way she treats Danny.

That won't happen ( at least not without turning Flack into a villain) as long as they try to sell us Lindsay as little miss perfect.

 

[xfcanadian]

So you can excuse Anna's inferior acting but take Carmine to task for expressing frustration over a poor storyline for his character? That seems a bit hypocritical to me.

Either way, I guess it's hard to justify Anna being employed on a primetime TV show when she's clearly putting minimal effort in. Combined with her extremely limited talent, it makes for subpar acting. There are so many great actresses out there that are much more deserving of a role on CSI: NY. The world isn't always fair, but, in this case, I don't think it is ok.

*sigh* i am sorry, i am not good at explaining things. I don't think that Anna is a bad actor, its just that is what others think is the reason her character doesn't show any emotion. I was trying to put it in relation to other poster's view point, but it didn't really work. The only reason i said she is getting worse, is because there has been one or two scenes were i have noticed some bad acting, like when she did that 'yes' thing. There is no excuse for that one. But other than that, i don't think she is bad at all. Just the way I see it. I just think the lack of emotional display is part of her character as a science geek. Hopefully that makes more sense.

 

[Top41]

xfcanadian said:
*sigh* i am sorry, i am not good at explaining things. I don't think that Anna is a bad actor, its just that is what others think is the reason her character doesn't show any emotion. I was trying to put it in relation to other poster's view point, but it didn't really work. The only reason i said she is getting worse, is because there has been one or two scenes were i have noticed some bad acting, like when she did that 'yes' thing. There is no excuse for that one. But other than that, i don't think she is bad at all. Just the way I see it. I just think the lack of emotional display is part of her character as a science geek. Hopefully that makes more sense.

I'd buy that if it weren't for the multiple hissy fits and attempts at emoting we saw in the third season. Clearly Lindsay is emotional--when it has to do with her personal issues. When it's other people's pain, she's not so concerned. I don't think she's really supposed to be like that, though--I think it's a combination of Anna's bad acting and the writers trying to figure out how to find a consistent character in all that mess. There's also a difference between being stoic and being blank. I've seen both Calleigh and Sara be stoic in different scenes, but Lindsay just comes across as blank when really, we should be getting something.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

His acting is starting to suffer a lot. I understand that carmine might not be too happy about D/L but he should still be a professional. I am not trying to bash him, but we shouldn't be able to tell that he doesn't care for a storyline through his acting. Or maybe Danny is supposed to be acting like that, who knows. I don't read the spoilers, so i have no idea what is going to happen.

I don't think Danny's behavior in S4 has anything to do with Carmine's reaction to story lines. Even though Danny's behaving differently toward Lindsay than what I'd expect, I still see Danny in those scenes. To me, it isn't coming off as Carmine acting the scene the way it always comes off as Anna Belknap acting instead of Lindsay as a character.

Plus, Carmine's last interview with Kristine indicates he has few problems with Danny's story lines or his character being used to prop up another character. If he really does have problems with it, he's professional enough to not bring them up in an interview. I'd venture a guess that he's also professional enough to keep it seperate from his performance.

 

[Carrieattheprom]

Hey Top, don't forget Lindsay did get emotional over Stella being attacked by Frankie in All Access, even though nothing had been done to establish any sort of bond between the two characters.

I'd like the D/L thing a lot more if A:Anna could actually ACT and B: If she and Carmine had believeable onscreen chemistry.

PerfectAnomaly hit the nail on the head: Carmine comes across as Danny Messer in his scenes while Anna never really becomes Lindsay Monroe. And when she does, Lindsay is a selfish and obnoxius person. I never see the "sweet" girl most of her fans refer to. That's obviously the Lindsay we're supposed to see, but I don't.

 

[Clytia]

hi,

I'm getting a little upset by this whole thread...Even if I agree with some arguments, I find some others a litte 'too much'....

I understand that carmine might not be too happy about D/L but he should still be a professional. I am not trying to bash him, but we shouldn't be able to tell that he doesn't care for a storyline through his acting. Or maybe Danny is supposed to be acting like that, who knows. I don't read the spoilers, so i have no idea what is going to happen.

See, I think it's Danny who doesn't care anymore. I don't it's Carmine not giving a 100%, but Danny falling out of the so called love he felt for her. Why? Because Carmine is still amazing in his scenes with the others on the cast. So:
A. Danny is getting bored with Montanaaa.
B. It's too hard for Carmine to work with AB.

Why oh so Why ? When it's about Carmine/Danny not being 'so good' it's because "he might not be too happy about D/L","too hard for Carmine to work with AB." or "Danny who doesn't care anymore"?
Yeah, Carmine is a very talented actor, even if, I only see him in CSI:NY...But he is also HUMAN, and he can't be the best all the time, he is not 'perfect'! Sure, I love him and he is one of my favorite characters, but still, I hope it doesn't mean you can't be objective just because you love(/hate) an actor or a character...

I've never seen anything about Carmine(or another actor in the show) having difficulties to work with Anna Belknap! Same with him not being happy about D/L....And if it was the case, it wouldn't show in his acting, or so, he wouldn't be such talented! He should keep this professional...if this is the case.

If this is Danny's storyline...We just have to Wait and See!
I also have this feeling about Carmine or Danny not giving a 100% but not just in his scenes with Anna/Lindsay! He is kind of lacking personality this season...but it's not his thread...sorry
And about Lindsay...Danny STILL cares, proofs in BOO : he is showing concern in the hospital room, and in the end, when she opens the suitcase!

When it's about Anna/Lindsay not being 'so good', it's because she is 'wooden' or bad acting, but it can't be something about lindsay personnality, or just the storyline, the character.
I never found anything bad in Anna Belknap acting. Sometimes she might not be 100%, but she never sucks! Sometimes I have problems with her character, but her acting never disturbed me.
I saw her in 3 other shows and she wasn't bad acting, in fact quit the opposite, she was Brilliant!

I don't think Anna Belknap was 'out acted' by Bailee Madison in the scene at the hospital. Or both Carmine and Anna were kind of 'out acted' in this scene! They were good but I agree, this little girl was very great, with just one line and one look!
But she is a cute little girl of seven who was playing a wounded little girl who had seen all the members of her family murdered! I figure she could have somehow 'out acted' anyone...

I find interessing a place where you can really discuss about a character(an actor)...

For that matter, Eddie/Don never convinces me when he is holding a gun (or barely)...Too bad, he is a cop in this show, but there are other things about him that are really good...But...I can't find any "Why Flack REALLY must change his job" sort of thread...
Don't get me wrong...I understand people having different opinion...But why a thread where you just talk about what is wrong about a character? I understand that must be a way to keep peace in the forum (one thread where is just all the good/another one where is just all the wrong?)...But, I find that's a shame.
Plus, I find this thread turns to be a 'how wonderful Carmine/Danny is'( 'untouchable Carmine/Danny ?') versus 'how bad Anna(/Lindsay?) is'...No?


I'm sorry, this is a long post
And I apologize to all my mistakes...I'm not an English native speaker! Hope is still comprehensible?

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

But she is a cute little girl of seven who was playing a wounded little girl who had seen all the members of her family murdered! I figure she could have somehow 'out acted' anyone...

Just because a kid is cute doesn't mean they can act. For example, the kids who played Sam and David on 7th Heaven were little cuties, but DAMN they made me cringe everytime they attempted to "act." I think many of the people who post here are more than capable of separating the cute from the talent level.

For that matter, Eddie/Don never convinces me when he is holding a gun (or barely)...Too bad, he is a cop in this show, but there are other things about him that are really good...But...I can't find any "Why Flack REALLY must change his job" sort of thread...

Anyone on the board has the right to open a thread. If you dislike Flack or Eddie Cahill's performance enough, go for it. I heard that back in the day there was an anti-Danny thread.

I find this thread turns to be a 'how wonderful Carmine/Danny is'( 'untouchable Carmine/Danny ?') versus 'how bad Anna(/Lindsay?) is'...No?

I think the comparisons come from the fact that most of Danny's development in S3 was tied to Lindsay, therefore Carmine and Anna were paired together in scenes a lot. And we were led to believe they'd be a couple in S4. If you read the entire thread, though, you will find many examples of why people dislike Anna/Lindsay that have absolutely nothing to do with Carmine/Danny.

 

[penguinpie]

Clytia, if you dislike negative sentiments so much, why did you enter and read the thread at all? Certainly, it's your right to do so, but why get upset about it? It's pretty clear from the title that this thread is not supportive of Lindsay (and, sadly, by extension, Anna Belknap). I suggest next time you just click the Back button on your browser. It's amazing how well that works.

Carmine isn't "perfect". However, he is a very competent actor, who has created in Danny Messer a complete, 3 dimensional character. I've never found anything to quibble about in his performance. He's convincing as Danny and the audience can easily connect and sympathise with him. Eddie, too, is very good in the role of Flack and always manages to hold his own alongside some pretty heavy hitting talent. Gary Sinise is no slouch, but their scenes together last year were excellently played. For the record, I think Eddie plays the tough cop very well and I can't understand why you would pick the way he holds a gun as indicative of, well, anything.

Anna, on the other hand, does not hold her own well alongside the rest of the cast. She may not be a truly terrible actor, but she clearly isn't a great one either. Perhaps some of it is the role itself; she just doesn't seem to connect with Lindsay or know what to do with her. Her performance is so uneven, it is hard to know what we are supposed to be seeing from Lindsay at any given moment. One moment, she's sparky and happy, the next she's depresso emo girl. It has often been mentioned in this thread that perhaps the writers should share some of the blame for this; they don't seem to know what to do with Lindsay either. Her emotional scenes are painful to watch and fail to convince us (at any rate) that the character is genuine. When you are so conscious of the actor's (poor) performance, it can pretty effectively blow the whole scene.

All of this is beside the point. The fact is the people on this thread are entitled to their opinion, however detrimental to a character or actor you like. You are welcome to disagree and be offended, that is your right. However, we won't be silent just because you take exception. Sorry, but that's the way it is.

 

[althea]

Clythia

For that matter, Eddie/Don never convinces me when he is holding a gun (or barely)...Too bad, he is a cop in this show, but there are other things about him that are really good...But...I can't find any "Why Flack REALLY must change his job" sort of thread...

I don't wanna go there but I feel obliged to wave the team Flack flag over here. Okay Flack does not convince you of being a cop when his holding a gun but his certainly convinced me of being a cop when he was sitting with a very traumatised Stella in All Access, in the episode The Fall he truly shined. And in every episode Eddie Cahill delivers with such ferocity whether his being witty and sarcastic or funny or down right angry that not for one second do you feel like Eddie Cahill is acting his simply being Don Flack. I've read so many other times on other threads when ppeople discuss other characters and said character does something they would not ordinarily people object and say that is so out of character. With Lindsay I wouldn't even know where to begin discussing her character because she has so many personalitiies thrown at you, you don't know who she really is.
And I can't think of one episode where Lindsay has stood out and make you go wow although with the rest of the cast I could just go on forever naming episodes where they were amazing. Mr. Anthony Zuiker did talk about a certain episode where she had really impressed him and the general consensus around here was that no she did not impress.

 

[Faylinn]

I think being a cop is, you know, kind of who Flack is.

No comments on the rest, which I know makes me terribly off-topic. Do forgive, please.