Why Lindsay Must Go

[kinkapoodles]

Jaer said:

1CSIMfan said:
The only ship I've ever associated Lindsay with is the one that ships here out of NY.

I liked this quote. A lot. So I borrowed it with the appropriate credit and one minor spelling change. Hope you don't mind.

Nope, don't mind a bit. I didn't even notice I typed here instead of her. That's what I get for sometimes not proofreading first.

 

[audrina]

JDonne said:
Audriana, I think it is great that you like Lindsay independent of Danny, however, sadly, you are in the minority, in fact, you may be a minority of one. I don’t have a problem with anything you come in and say, I appreciate that you do come in knowing more than likely whatever you say will be scrutinized before the day is done and that it is not you we are swatting down just your ideas and opinions and in that there is no harm. The fact that you take the time to say it any way is admirable, suicidal maybe :lol:, but admirable nonetheless.

:lol:Thanks JDonne. Thanks for appreciating my bravery. Actually, I find debate interesting and that's why I posted in this thread. I hardly thought I would post an opposing view and turn you all into card-carrying Lindsay lovers.

To some of your other points yes, I see flaws in Lindsay. I thought in the beginning she was too eager, and her flashes of anger later in the season threw me off. Just to show I'm not a googly-eyed Lindsay loving zombie. Oh and yes, I understand your view on Thacker, and yes, it was a boo-boo when I considered how rarely we've seen him. As for the new det. hey, I'm always happy to see women in strong roles, so if she's written well, I'm sure I'll like her, too.

Oh, and JDonne? I'm the lone member of my circle of friends that doesn't watch Grey's Anatomy. A point of agreement maybe? Thanks for tolerating my presence and have a good day all .........

 

[Jaer]

Lyn said:
The truth is, we don't really know, so this is all speculation anyway. If she's been brought in to oust Lnidsey, then it's a curious path to take, because she isn't a CSI. Unless they're going to do the Sofia-thing and switch her over.

I don't think they need to replace Lindsay if they oust her, not with another CSI, anyway. One of the biggest complaints about S2 from pretty much everyone is the amount of screen time Hawkes got. I think they're bringing in a female because they don't want Stella to be the only one and if the new female is a detective as well....a 'new' detective....she doesn't take time away from the CSIs. Ergo: lack of females solved with the newbie and lack of Lindsay wished for.

JDonne said:
...there is a reason why JDonne does not play well with others.

Say it is not so!

:lol:

JDonne said:
You know what else is insane, the conspiracy theory that is threatening to overtake the board, because a new thread opened and the discussion focused on Flack and suddenly it became interesting that Lindsay was not being discussed. What the hell is that, I would call it paranoia, but why even bother going there. What I find interesting is that suddenly not only did the discussion shift to Lindsay’s dark secret, in a effort to keep the peace perhaps, but statements were made saying that the thread was open to discussion of any character, like that wasn’t clear from the first post in the thread. Suddenly thoughts on Lindsay’s secret were off and running and all was right in the NY forum once again. I know, here’s a thought rather than post conspiracy theories on Lindsay’s exclusion why not post your own theories about her background, I guess it is just easer to admonish people, or at least try. I for one don’t believe in appeasing children in the throes of tantrums it simply encourages them to do it more often and it is an unpleasant sight especially when the children have exited adolescence.

You know, that thread was actually interesting until it turned into a Lindsay love fest of the politically correct sort. Now it's banal.

JDonne said:
As far as Lindsay’s dark secret or her upbringing in Bozeman, etc. I have no need to feign interest or seek balance in my dislike of the character or the actress’s performance I tend to be a definitive person or in lay speak I don’t do anything half-ass. In other words, if she can be loved without compromise why can’t she be disliked without compromise.

Because that's not playing nice with others who can't stand to have their beliefs challenged.

JDonne said:
Actually, in retrospect, that was a rather civil post, I think.

Ali

I noticed. I was kind of disappointed. You should work on that. :lol:

 

[Silencer]

I don't think they need to replace Lindsay if they oust her, not with another CSI, anyway. One of the biggest complaints about S2 from pretty much everyone is the amount of screen time Hawkes got. I think they're bringing in a female because they don't want Stella to be the only one and if the new female is a detective as well....a 'new' detective....she doesn't take time away from the CSIs. Ergo: lack of females solved with the newbie and lack of Lindsay wished for.

Which was kind of my point, albeit in a roundabout and crap way. One of the rumours about Miss-New-Detective-Pants is that she's there to oust Lindsay. I find that a bit pre-emptive, to be honest. It sort of implies that the sole reason for this character's existance is Lindsay. I'm rather hoping she's been brought in as a decent character in her own right, not to correct problems with someone else. It doesn't really bode well, does it, to have the sole reason for a character's existance is to make up for another character and even up the gender imbalance. Sterling foundation there. I'm hoping there's more to her, and her being a detective rather than a CSI suggests they're playing this one a little more carefully. This gives me optimism.

As you said, Lindsay's character was somewhat pointless in the first place, because Hawkes had already been moved up. I've made that point myself several times in this thread. So I agree with you entirely.

 

[JDonne]

I don’t think her sole reason would be to oust Lindsay or even silence Lindsay, but I do think that a character with solid characterization can fix a multitude of evils. She can be used to explain away dropped storylines she can show us what the ropes are like for a newbie, albeit detective rather than CSI since that opportunity will never come again for Hawkes given the overwhelming attention Lindsay’s character received. It has never been a foreign concept in literature or especially television to have a character simply to do X or bring about Y, it is the nature of the beast and the business.

I want Lindsay to leave, make a quick and speedy exit, but if that were to happen it wouldn’t mean I would want the well-written character that facilitated that exit to leave as well, nor would I want her to be so one dimensional that her every move is an obvious one. Having said that though I do believe that TPTB heard the complaints about the show and I do believe that the new Det. is a result of complaints from not simply viewers about the show losing its NY feel, weak storylines, and ill-received characters, but internally and critically as well. So perhaps casting the new Det. in the role of curative is an injustice to her, but I don’t see how if she is well written and helps push the show back in the right direction, the two ideas need not be mutually exclusive. If she is there to oust Lindsay gradually, quickly, not at all, could she not also exist as a character in her own right with an interesting storyline all her own. I think it is possible at least the team in charge of the show could have pulled it off first season, I’m not so sure about them now.

I guess, at this point any speculation for good or for bad would be presumptive, but if the writers truly sat down and looked over all the problems that filled season 2 a new character along with solid writing is an excellent way to rebound artistically for a show that is struggling creatively. They can’t make last season a dream, because that didn’t work for Dallas so I’ve heard, but that can course correct. Utilizing new blood to do so is an excellent idea, if it is done the right way and need not be another disaster in the making.

Simply dropping storylines that fizzled or failed, such as Danny and Lindsay in my opinion, demonstrates a lack if continuity, one of my big problems with season 2, however injecting a new woman into the atmosphere doesn’t mean that Danny need run away with her, but what he can do is tease her in a fashion similar to Lindsay thereby eradicating the dreaded Danny/Lindsay.

The writers can use this opportunity to show that they can create a solid and stable character one that the audience wants to watch, one that the audience likes, and one that doesn’t cause a great schism to emerge with the viewership. I don’t believe the writers or show runners do things simply because they want to create an exciting new character, every character has an agenda, a reason behind their creation, a way that fit into the overall puzzle sometimes it works (Danny, Stella, etc.), and sometimes it doesn’t (Lindsay). Either there is a plan for this Jennifer Angell and I’m hoping there is or she is simply this season’s Vicaro or Thacker, we’ll see her once and then she’ll disappear without a trace and that is a different show entirely. I’m hoping there is a plan, I’m hoping there is a character, and I’m hoping she makes me believe that the writers are once again capable of good things after all the damage Lindsay did to the show, because as far as I’m concerned they owe us and I think they know it, perhaps payday has arrived.

As far as correcting gender balance, it is simply unrealistic to have a division of the police department that is not majority male, not that the shows make a big push for reality, but in the same vein it hardly pushes for gender equality. Nor would she actually accomplish that goal once Flack was on his feet, if she were still around.

Ali

 

[Top41]

I tend to look at the new detective as a positive thing--I'm hopeful that the writers have heard the concerns of a lot of fans this season about Lindsay. There really is no other character who is so controversial in all of the CSI-verse, and I don't mean that in a good way. Danny is a lightining rod character who sparks discussion and interest in what he'll do next--that's the kind of talk writers usually want for their characters.

Lindsay, on the other hand, inspires so much negative discussion, be it about her weak character development or her poor interaction with the other characters or Anna's scripted, stilted delivery of her lines or lack of cohesiveness with the rest of the cast. That's not the kind of discussion I would think writers would want about a character, especially in a young series that is in danger of being overshadowed by its elder siblings. If CSI: NY really wants to differentiate itself from its predecessors by being a character-driven show, then each and every character must be well-acted and compelling. Lindsay is neither.

 

[sarramaks]

^^I think you just summed it up, Top.

 

[Jaer]

Okay, I was flipping channels last night and caught Anna Belknap's face and wondered why NY was on a Thursday. Then I learned I was actually watching Without a Trace and decided to watch part of it just to see if I'd been wrong every time I'd trashed Anna Belknap's acting ability.

The answer is no. I was not wrong when I trashed her acting ability because Anna Belknap cannot act. She had that same stupid facial expression on the whole time when she was supposed to be...I think...either upset or angry. Not sure which. I think it's been called the portabella mushroom expression. Yeah, it's her only expression. Her voice didn't bother me the whole three minutes I paused to watch, but it just drove the nail in the coffin about Anna's lack of talents. Of course, it was a dramatic scene again...I think. She could have just had a bad case of indigestion.

I really hope Adam gets more screen time than Lindsay does in S3.

 

[BlueSmurfette]

“Like to the Egyptian thief at point of death,
Kill what I love.” Orsino – Twelfth Night

That, guys, is what you do...you kill what so many other CSI: New York fans love.

You hate Lindsay. You hate Anna. You hate the Danny & Lindsay ship.

Big deal. Say it once is stating an opinion of truth...restating it and being utterly cruel is just...beyond childish.

Truth be told, and I have tried, I can’t understand why you are being such idiots about Anna Belknap, and her utterly wonderful portrayal of the country-girl moving to the big city and adjusting to a life that’s worlds away from the one she left behind.

To the moderators who allow the trash that’s been posted about Anna – why? Why are you allowing, and why are some of you posting this crap? Have you no thought for the possibility that Anna, herself, or even Carmine or any of the others from the show may step onto the forum and be utterly disgusted at the horrible way you are treating someone who works her ass off each and every week?

And here you are...you just ridicule her. All of you.

As per her lack of acting...I do declare you have a lack of understanding body language, chemistry...the works. I also think you perhaps lack a life outside of this board, because clearly your vindications against this wonderfully talented woman are coming from a manifested jealousy – of whom or what, God only knows – but don’t you think it’s time you just take a step back from the nasty words you write and re-evaluate yourselves, your words, and your actions?

I do think you should, because as hurtful as it is for me to read – a mere supporter, shipper and writer of some eight years – what about everyone else? Think about how Anna herself would feel upon reading the trash you’re writing. Think about how you would feel if someone was writing this crap about you and a character you were playing the part of.

It would hurt, wouldn’t it? Why? Because it’s insulting.

At this point it just makes me thankful that not every member of the CSI: New York fandom is as shallow, callous, demeaning, and rude as those of you who post this crap are.

They say there are bad eggs in every fandom...and from what I have seen in a good number of fandoms, it is true...but this? This just takes the cake. And, you make me ashamed, you really do.

 

[kinkapoodles]

Jaer, I totally agree with you. I saw some of that eppy last night and it was the same old thing. Let's just hope that Adam (and Hawkes, Hammerback, and the new detective) does indeed get more screentime in season 3 than Lindsay. At least Adam, Hawkes, and Hammerback have chemistry with the rest of the team.

 

[Jaer]

BlueSmurfette said:
“Like to the Egyptian thief at point of death,
Kill what I love.” Orsino – Twelfth Night

That, guys, is what you do...you kill what so many other CSI: New York fans love.

If so many others loved her character, opinions like ours would not kill that love unless it were very shallow. In which case, it's a death well earned.

You hate Lindsay. You hate Anna. You hate the Danny & Lindsay ship.

Big deal. Say it once is stating an opinion of truth...restating it and being utterly cruel is just...beyond childish.

Truth be told, and I have tried, I can’t understand why you are being such idiots about Anna Belknap, and her utterly wonderful portrayal of the country-girl moving to the big city and adjusting to a life that’s worlds away from the one she left behind.

Being a country girl myself, I find her portrayal of one insulting, because we aren't thick as bricks and too stupid to know what things in the 'big city' are. As for being world's away....you know what? In the country we have these new fangle things like running water and even horseless carriages that I hear are real popular like in the big city. Dayam, ain't that sumpthin'?

To the moderators who allow the trash that’s been posted about Anna – why? Why are you allowing, and why are some of you posting this crap? Have you no thought for the possibility that Anna, herself, or even Carmine or any of the others from the show may step onto the forum and be utterly disgusted at the horrible way you are treating someone who works her ass off each and every week?

And here you are...you just ridicule her. All of you.

Holy shit, I had no idea the Pope had canonized another Saint. And I sincerely hope that Anna comes to this site and reads what we say and maybe, golly gee, it will inspire her to TAKE ACTING LESSONS. Or get another job. I hear Burger king is hiring.

As per her lack of acting...I do declare you have a lack of understanding body language, chemistry...the works. I also think you perhaps lack a life outside of this board, because clearly your vindications against this wonderfully talented woman are coming from a manifested jealousy – of whom or what, God only knows – but don’t you think it’s time you just take a step back from the nasty words you write and re-evaluate yourselves, your words, and your actions?

I will concede that perhaps my lack of understanding body language and etc is on par with Anna's. But then, I'm not paid to act in front of people who actually expect my performance to be good.

Would the life outside this board be the one where you seem to live in which free speech is obviously an alien thought process viciously suppressed at first bloom? I would return the favor and instruct you to get a life, but I fear you want Lindsay's or Anna's, I'm not sure which, and I don't condone stalking.

I do think you should, because as hurtful as it is for me to read – a mere supporter, shipper and writer of some eight years – what about everyone else? Think about how Anna herself would feel upon reading the trash you’re writing. Think about how you would feel if someone was writing this crap about you and a character you were playing the part of.

It would hurt, wouldn’t it? Why? Because it’s insulting.

I do think about how Anna feels when/if she ever reads this. I hope it's ashamed that she actually accepted the role and ruined a show that once upon a time I loved. Also, if her feelings are as easily hurt as yours seem to be, I would advise that an acting career is not for her for reasons other than her lack of talent.

You've been a writer for 8 years? Congratulations. I've been one for twenty plus. I'm also a published author and not just someone who posts poorly written fanfic. I know how to take criticism of my work and I know how to give criticism in hopes that what little talent there is may be improved on. It's called constructive criticism and only those who are misguidedly arrogant in their love of their own talents ever believe they don't need it. You stop getting critcism on your work and it's because people are bored with you and no longer care.

At this point it just makes me thankful that not every member of the CSI: New York fandom is as shallow, callous, demeaning, and rude as those of you who post this crap are.

They say there are bad eggs in every fandom...and from what I have seen in a good number of fandoms, it is true...but this? This just takes the cake. And, you make me ashamed, you really do.

Curious that you would post this in a thread clearly titled "Why Lindsay Must Go". I can't help but wonder what you thought we were discussing here. Perhaps in that meager 8 years of writing you've had you've created many misleading chapter titles without even realizing it. Allow me to elucidate for you...when we say Lindsay Must Go, we aren't talking about her taking a vacation...unless it's of the permanent sort.

Also, I must point out that as banal and insipid as I find the Lindsay love threads, I do not go there and command that they instantly start to believe the way I do or shut up. Silly me, I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion and should voice it. In fact, I embrace it when audrina comes and discusses things with us, because we do not shut her down, but we do present our own viewpoints on the same matter and have encouraged her to do so. We do not insult her for her belief, even though we do not share it. Ahhh, but you might have realized that if you'd actually read the entire thread. Your opinion I find vastly more narrowminded than her own for all that you both purport to love Lindsay. I respect audrina's opinion though I disagree with it. I cannot say the same for yours.

As for your being ashamed of us...I find I don't really care what your feelings are. You are neither my mother, nor a relative, nor actually anyone I care about. Your good opinion, to paraphrase, once lost to me is lost forever...and I find that to be far from tragic.

I do in parting, however, hope that you feel good now that you've got all that off your chest and have humbled us mere detractors of Saint Anna the Pure. I know I'll sleep better tonight for having heard it. :lol:

Also, your Shakespeare quote...none of us here have ever purported to love Lindsay, though many of us freely admit to trying.




Upon further reflection, I also find it interesting that a first time poster would attack this thread in such a familiar manner. It makes me wonder....

 

[BlueSmurfette]

Jaer said:
If so many others loved her character, opinions like ours would not kill that love unless it were very shallow. In which case, it's a death well earned.

Ah yes, and I, like many others, treasure the day when we see the well earned death of these "opinions".

Would the life outside this board be the one where you seem to live in which free speech is obviously an alien thought process viciously suppressed at first bloom? I would return the favor and instruct you to get a life, but I fear you want Lindsay's or Anna's, I'm not sure which, and I don't condone stalking.

What you misunderstand is that I'm not posting in here because I want to *be* Anna, or even Lindsay, I'm posting in here hoping that someone will finally put a stop to the cruel and heartless "opinions" that are so freely allowed to be posted.
As a matter of fact, most of what has been said is called hate propegander, and in case you hadn't heard, it's very much frowned upon on the WWW, and in the better corners of the WWW it is illegal.

You've been a writer for 8 years? Congratulations. I've been one for twenty plus. I'm also a published author and not just someone who posts poorly written fanfic. I know how to take criticism of my work and I know how to give criticism in hopes that what little talent there is may be improved on. It's called constructive criticism and only those who are misguidedly arrogant in their love of their own talents ever believe they don't need it. You stop getting critcism on your work and it's because people are bored with you and no longer care.

To close; I don't see how anything said about Anna here in this thread, such as that she was blackmailing people to get her job, and everything else you all have said can, or would ever be considered "constructive criticism".

 

[kinkapoodles]

^^Is this not a free country?? We all have the right to our opinions. I respect everyone's opinions on here and I hope everyone respects mine but I don't think it's right, or allowed on these threads, to bash people and tell them what they can or cannot think.

bluesmurfette, isn't the correct term propaganda?? Also, this is not a hate thread. Nobody has ever said they hated Lindsay. Dislike and hate are two very different things.

Just in case you didn't know (since you've only made 2 posts) there are two threads dedicated to Lindsay. They can be found here and here too

 

[Jaer]

BlueSmurfette said:
Ah yes, and I, like many others, treasure the day when we see the well earned death of these "opinions".

I sincerely hope you're not holding your breath. I fail to see, also, why you find our opinions so threatening to you that you chose to attack us, fostering in us the same condemnation for you that you heap upon us for our dislike of a poor actress. I guess tit isn't good for tat.

BlueSmurfette said:
What you misunderstand is that I'm not posting in here because I want to *be* Anna, or even Lindsay, I'm posting in here hoping that someone will finally put a stop to the cruel and heartless "opinions" that are so freely allowed to be posted.
As a matter of fact, most of what has been said is called hate propegander, and in case you hadn't heard, it's very much frowned upon on the WWW, and in the better corners of the WWW it is illegal.

Allow me to correct you...it's called opinion and free speech. I allow you your misguided and baffeling love of Anna Belknap and you allow me my right to not feel the same way. Unless, of course, you're not into that whole 'free will' thing God and the Government granted us and would prefer we live in a regime of Annaism where any dissenting voice is immediately silenced. I can picture myself as a freedom fighter daring to shout against the Monotheism of Lindsay worship. Viva la revolucion!

BlueSmurfette said:
To close; I don't see how anything said about Anna here in this thread, such as that she was blackmailing people to get her job, and everything else you all have said can, or would ever be considered "constructive criticism".

Ah, well, you have me there. But we mere mortals are allowed our little amusements, aren't we? Particularly when I don't believe anyone actually believes she slept her way to her job. We're simply baffeled as to how she did get it since talent obviously wasn't required. But feel free to pass this on to Anna from me:

1...take acting lessons.
1a..perhaps you should take lessons from a mime well schooled in facial expressions and how they can be different to convey different emotions.
2...taking voice lessons also would not be amiss. You sound shrill at times.
3...decide who Lindsay is and stick with it. Define her well enough and the writers will follow...as the rest of the cast has so admirably done with as little or less development as you've had.
4...convince anyone who will listen that you and Carmine have no chemistry and stop trying to force it. It's painful.
5...go to the country. Discover that country girls are not brainless hicks. Learn. Pass on what you have learned.
6...failing all else, if you cannot handle TV then I urge you to consider a return to theatre. I'm told you were well liked there.

 

[BlueSmurfette]

1CSIMfan, nothing I've said has had the intent of "bashing" anyone, but I will restrain from that; although I guess it's more unfortunate that Anna cannot be expressed the same politeness in kind by those who continually bash her.

Per the free country remark, I do wonder though...would, even in polite society, people be able to talk this horribly of someone? No. And why? It's slander, and it is an offense that can get one sued.