Why Lindsay Must Go

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audrina said:
You suggest that Carmine has a hard time with his "flirty" lines because he can't get into them, basically, or get behind them. Perhaps Anna seems off in her "forceful Lindsay" scenes because she as an actor feels they are incongruent with her character. I've heard CSI writers don't often give actors advance notice of future stories, so maybe Anna is having a hard time playing "haunted Lindsay" or "Lindsay with baggage" because she doesn't know Lindsay's history yet, she just knows she has "a past."
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Carmine absolutely shouldn't be excused for his weak delivery of the flirty lines. I think it shows that he's not into the relationship as its being developed, but that doesn't mean he isn't accountable for his performance. However, the writers should be taking note and wondering why an actor who is otherwise always excellent seems to be giving a flat delivery of his lines in those scenes.

The problem with Anna is that aside from the comic scenes, she's always unconvincing. With Carmine, the bad delivery is an exception, not the rule. But with Anna, she's not convincing as an investigtor working a case, as an angry detective, as an insightful CSI...she's just not working in the role. Like I said, the comic stuff was fine, and as Jaer mentioned, Anna's talents may lie in comedy. She was also somewhat convincing as a borderline psycho at the end of "Stealing Home," but I have a feeling the writers won't take the character in that direction.

I don't disagree that it's a writing problem, but I think part of the problem with that is that it's a CSI show, and the writers simply can't come up with enough comic moments to make Anna fit on the show. It's just not the right venue for her.
 
I can’t agree you more, Top 41. I never quite understand why the Danny-Lindsay ‘flirting’ scenes are so difficult to watch until I read your posts.

Perhaps the writing shouldn’t make Lindsay a girl with dark side or a sweet girl trying to be tough. There are many types of CSIs, that’s why we have Grissom, Horatio, Mac. They are different from each other yet they are still good CSIs. If they designed Lindsay to be a polite CSI, unlike others on the team, who are more strong or tough, Lindsay would be much tolerable than now. Just like Nick in CSI, I always quite like him because he is such a sweet guy with a smile, seldom play the tough roll (unlike Sara). Yet, he is still a good CSI who can solve crime and win audience's heart at the same time.

The failure of Lindsay’s character isn’t just because of the bad Danny Lindsay relationship, but the setting of her character has gone completely wrong.
 
audrina said:
Okay, I agree about the actor thing - maybe she should be able to overcome it - but then shouldn't carmine in what many have called his flat delivery of flirtatious lines with Anna?

I don't disagree that scenes that are supposedly (allegedly, I guess, since we don't know) reflecting her past are a bit clunky, I'm just a believer that the fault lies mainly on the shoulders with the writers. JMO.

Peace
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I don't disagree that there was a writing issue this past season, but the writing shouldn't affect delivery. Not to mention everyone else has managed to overcome the weak scripting this season to deliver some excellent performances, Anna simply hasn't outside of the bow and arrow scene. The writers can't make a character that investigates death and brutality cute in every scene.

Writers write storylines, the are responsible for plot, it is the actor’s job to make those lines seamless, believable, and watchable and if they don't most of the time or ever, as is the case with Anna, then they have failed. If you are a failure at your job whether it be actor, teacher, doctor, etc. you should be dismissed without apology because in the end it is the best thing for those lives you may touch. Besides, can we honestly blame every writer on staff for Anna's failure, let's see 25 writers and 1 Anna, guess what the real problem is? It's Anna.

Even in the good episodes this season she has been terrible, so terrible that she can zap all the energy from a scene. Anna delivering lines in scenes is tantamount to having a pillow forced down on your face, then even when the pillow is gone it still takes you a while to recover and find some peace or in the case of NY to begin watching without taking deep restorative breaths.

Carmine's flat delivery only exists when he's with Anna and should he shoulder some of the blame, certainly, but Anna should shoulder more. Perhaps, Carmine is bored and recognizes, like viewers, what the writers don’t – that the scenes are unconvincing, overbearing, and a distraction to good solid character development. Maybe, Carmine is simply fed up with being pimped out to save a character beyond redemption. Anna is Carmine’s green kryptonite, deadly to his delivery. Actually, she is the show’s kryptonite because rest assured NY is dying a slow and painful death right now, let’s hope that someone saves them over the summer – a pink slip would be the best way.

When a scene is especially horrible you are sure to find Anna somewhere in the vicinity. Carmine is normally an amazing talent and the fact that Anna can diminish that type of charisma is truly frightening.

I think Flack’s attitude towards Lindsay is the same as the audience’s attitude towards Anna portrayal of Lindsay a healthy contempt or maybe he’s just wondering how many bullets it would take to make her stop talking, because I know I do sometimes.

Ali
 
Well, I think we can at least agree that the writing has been lacking a bit - they seemed to be scrambling with how to handle Vanessa's departure. See, there's common ground, LOL. Thanks for your thoughtful responses.
 
I was quite pleased with Vanessa's departure when Mac fired her. Not because I didn't like her and wanted her gone but because it was nice to see someone get fired instead of killing them off. Of course, then they turned around and killed her anyway.

Now if we can just find some way for him to fire Linsday.....or someone to kill her off....

It will be interesting to see what the writers have in store for Lindsay in season 3. Although I'm not sure there is much more that can be done with her. Other than her disappearing. Let's just hope that Danny doesn't have to put up with her too much and the flirting is cut out. Carmine just doesn't have it in him to play the flirty scenes with her.
 
IMHO, I think many of you will get your wish, at least partially (I don't think Lindsay's going anywhere yet). I think we will see less of Lindsay this season. We saw more of her in S2 because I think the writers were eager for everyone to get over Aiden and embrace the new chick (this was handled badly, no matter who the actress was - too much too soon). I have also observed on every CSI board I've been to that Hill Harper is beloved, as well as Flack, and there's been an outcry about their lack of screen time. So my prediction is that we'll see a return to the more ensemble feel of S1. It's almost like the show had to find its equillibrium again. My two cents anyway.
 
Hopefully they won't force her on us in season 3. Like you said ^, less of Lindsay. Give everyone equal screen time (though we know Mac gets most of it). Shuffle them up a bit. Don't always pair Danny with Lindsay (which it seems they did in season 2). I wanna see Danny work with Flack and Hawkes. I even like Danny working with Stella. I think Lindsay works better with Mac than really anyone else. Let her keep working with him. He can pull off putting up with her.
 
1CSIMfan said:
I even like Danny working with Stella. I think Lindsay works better with Mac than really anyone else. Let her keep working with him. He can pull off putting up with her.
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I think the reason that Mac and Lindsay seem to mesh so well is that Gary can compensate for everything Anna lacks, that's why he's Gary Sinese even half-ass he's better than most. Gary can pull the viewer away from the poor and unconvincing delivery that Anna tosses at the viewers on a regular basis. Hill and Carmine couldn't do it and even when Anna works with Melina, their interactions are stiff and stale. Flack is saved from being drained by ignoring her and snarking her, now if only he would get to the shooting then he would be my forever hero. The Stella and Lindsay scenes almost feel as though they were shot at separate times and then were molded into one scene in the editing room, I never get the sense that they occupy the same space, they lack a solid and discernable connection. It concerns me that Anna doesn't mesh or flow with anyone other than Gary, the writers can't do anything about that, and it makes it apparent that Anna is the problem. The producers and show runners need to step in and recognize the problem at hand and correct it rather than being candy asses, if these same people think that LV can survive without William Peterson then they must know that My will not only survive without Anna it will thrive. You can't have a cohesive team feel when one piece just doesn't fit. So, even with improved writing, because I'm convinced it can't get worse, Anna still isn't the right actress for this show and the sooner that is acknowledged the better it will be for everyone. So, I’m still hoping that the season opens with a plane touching down in Montana with Lindsay aboard and with no plans of ever returning to NY. If not then my hopes and wishes for Lindsay will become increasingly violent.

On a side note Stella and Danny working together is one of my favorite pairings.

Ali
 
audrina said:
You suggest that Carmine has a hard time with his "flirty" lines because he can't get into them, basically, or get behind them. Perhaps Anna seems off in her "forceful Lindsay" scenes because she as an actor feels they are incongruent with her character. I've heard CSI writers don't often give actors advance notice of future stories, so maybe Anna is having a hard time playing "haunted Lindsay" or "Lindsay with baggage" because she doesn't know Lindsay's history yet, she just knows she has "a past."
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The theory that Anna is having a difficult time playing Lindsay because she doesn't know Lindsay's history would be a valid argument....if not for the fact that Eddie Cahill, Robet Joy and Hill Harper manage great performances with just as little known about their background. I think it's a measure of their skill that they are taking a character sketch on a piece of paper and making it their own. They are defining it to themselves and, as a result, to the audience. I don't think Anna is doing this. I think she keeps waiting for the writers to define Lindsay instead of taking the opportunity to define Lindsay for herself and this is what separates an excellent actor from a mediocre at best actor.

For Lindsay to become a believable, lovable character, Anna needs to define her to the point that whether the writers do or do not fill in the blanks of her past or her secret, Lindsay is an individual in her own right like Flack, Hawkes and Hammerback are. I, frankly, do not see Anna as having the talent needed to be able to do this and as such, Lindsay will remain two-dimensional...ie a character sketch on a piece of paper by a writer.
 
First time posting in this thread. :)

Saw this article in tv.com. And, impressive as her credentials are, I just can't wrap my head around the fact that it's talking about the same actress that can't seem to get Lindsay across the TV screen.

This will be the first time I've encountered Anna on screen. I probably might have been inadvertently influenced by what I've read about her acting in NY (or because I would prefer Aiden over Lindsay), but, after seeing a few episodes with her in it, nothing can't seem to convince me otherwise so far. Lindsay needs to step up and be recognized as a well-rounded character.
 
^^Interesting article. Lindsay trying to get used to New York life after leaving Montana. How is that working?? NOT!!

Looks to me like Anna needs to go back to theatre work. She clearly doesn't know how to do tv. If she was anywhere near a talented actress, it wouldn't matter if she doesn't know Linday's background. You kind of mold the character as you go. Then if they give you more background info, you blend that in. Not totally change.

I agree that Gary Sinise is talented enough to make it work when they are in scenes together. And he probably tries to make it work too. I've noticed his name in the producer credits. The rest of the cast just don't seem to have it in them to make it work. Maybe they've tried and it's just not working. I've never seen another character on any CSI shows that had this much trouble fitting in.

I agree with an earlier post, if LV can still go on without WP then NY can definately go on without Anna. Miami has went on without Rory Cochrane. Vegas has just had the luck of nobody wanting to leave...yet
 
JDonne said:
Carmine's flat delivery only exists when he's with Anna and should he shoulder some of the blame, certainly, but Anna should shoulder more. Perhaps, Carmine is bored and recognizes, like viewers, what the writers don’t – that the scenes are unconvincing, overbearing, and a distraction to good solid character development. Maybe, Carmine is simply fed up with being pimped out to save a character beyond redemption. Anna is Carmine’s green kryptonite, deadly to his delivery. Actually, she is the show’s kryptonite because rest assured NY is dying a slow and painful death right now, let’s hope that someone saves them over the summer – a pink slip would be the best way.

When a scene is especially horrible you are sure to find Anna somewhere in the vicinity. Carmine is normally an amazing talent and the fact that Anna can diminish that type of charisma is truly frightening.
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That's what bothers me a lot, because it seems like Anna takes something out of Carmine's performance. Should he be able to fake the chemistry because that's what actors do? Sure, but chemistry is the hardest thing to fake from what I can tell, because I've seen plenty of movies where the leads don't have it. Carmine did better in the beginning, but as the season went on he almost seemed to get tired of it and not have it in him anymore. Maybe he was hoping the producers would give up on the storyline and then grew disenchanted as he saw it continue to grow and eat up so much of his screentime. I'd be depressed, too.


1CSIMfan said:
I was quite pleased with Vanessa's departure when Mac fired her. Not because I didn't like her and wanted her gone but because it was nice to see someone get fired instead of killing them off. Of course, then they turned around and killed her anyway.
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I liked the initial firing too, and was disappointed when they brought Aiden back only to kill her. Someone remarked to me that it seemed to be done to put an end to the Lindsay vs. Aiden comparisons, but ah, if only the writers understood that Lindsay is disliked on her own and other characters, be it Aiden or Danny, have little to do with it.

audrina said:
IMHO, I think many of you will get your wish, at least partially (I don't think Lindsay's going anywhere yet). I think we will see less of Lindsay this season. We saw more of her in S2 because I think the writers were eager for everyone to get over Aiden and embrace the new chick (this was handled badly, no matter who the actress was - too much too soon). I have also observed on every CSI board I've been to that Hill Harper is beloved, as well as Flack, and there's been an outcry about their lack of screen time. So my prediction is that we'll see a return to the more ensemble feel of S1. It's almost like the show had to find its equillibrium again. My two cents anyway.
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If the writers are listening to the fans, that will certainly be true. I've actually heard whisperings of this, that an attempt is going to be made to even out the show a little better and bring back some of the season one qualities that so many of us liked. I was happy to hear this because I really do think the show can be fixed.

Jaer said:
The theory that Anna is having a difficult time playing Lindsay because she doesn't know Lindsay's history would be a valid argument....if not for the fact that Eddie Cahill, Robet Joy and Hill Harper manage great performances with just as little known about their background. I think it's a measure of their skill that they are taking a character sketch on a piece of paper and making it their own. They are defining it to themselves and, as a result, to the audience. I don't think Anna is doing this. I think she keeps waiting for the writers to define Lindsay instead of taking the opportunity to define Lindsay for herself and this is what separates an excellent actor from a mediocre at best actor.

For Lindsay to become a believable, lovable character, Anna needs to define her to the point that whether the writers do or do not fill in the blanks of her past or her secret, Lindsay is an individual in her own right like Flack, Hawkes and Hammerback are. I, frankly, do not see Anna as having the talent needed to be able to do this and as such, Lindsay will remain two-dimensional...ie a character sketch on a piece of paper by a writer.
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And therein lies the problem. Everyone else on this show is excellent. Everyone else has put a lot of thought into his or her character and really made these characters believeable. And then comes Anna, who clearly doesn't have handle on her character at all. And that's fine in the beginning few episodes, but after an entire season?

Take for example, if Anna had stuck with the lighter Lindsay (which would have been my preference). Instead of yelling at suspects, she might have asked her questions with a sly smile and delivered lines with a cheery affability which could have masked her skill as an investigator. Instead, Lindsay seemed to be a totally different character towards the end of the season, screaming at suspects for no good reason and getting worked up with little or no motivation. There's no thought put into her performance beyond the episode, no continuity, and very little insight into the character on Anna's part. And yes, you can blame the writers for that, but Hill seems to have a good handle on his character and has been given so much less to work with. Same with Eddie.

JDonne said:
I think Flack’s attitude towards Lindsay is the same as the audience’s attitude towards Anna portrayal of Lindsay a healthy contempt or maybe he’s just wondering how many bullets it would take to make her stop talking, because I know I do sometimes.

Ali
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On a lighter note, I think if Lindsay touches Danny, Flack will not hesitate to shoot her. He's obviously already not fond of her, and that would probably be what it takes to push him over the edge. :lol:
 
1CSIMfan said:
I agree with an earlier post, if LV can still go on without WP then NY can definately go on without Anna. Miami has went on without Rory Cochrane. Vegas has just had the luck of nobody wanting to leave...yet
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Vegas is really lucky that nobody wants to leave, because the show is perfectly balanced with the current cast, as CSI NY almost was last year. There wasn't a weak link ... they all worked together well.
 
Showtime said:
1CSIMfan said:
I agree with an earlier post, if LV can still go on without WP then NY can definately go on without Anna. Miami has went on without Rory Cochrane. Vegas has just had the luck of nobody wanting to leave...yet
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Vegas is really lucky that nobody wants to leave, because the show is perfectly balanced with the current cast, as CSI NY almost was last year. There wasn't a weak link ... they all worked together well.
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You're right last year NY was almost perfect, the cast, the writing, and the atmosphere, not so this year. The writing had its bright moments, it had the almost there moments, but mostly it suffered from how dare you do this to me moments. However, I could almost get over the poor writing if the cast had that cohesive feel that was so paramount to season one. The biggest obstacle to both the cohesive feeling and an outright enjoyment of the show, even in its crappy moments, rests squarely on Anna's shoulders. She was so offensive to me and continues to be. I tried to watch the repeat last night, a first for me, and as soon as she came on screen it felt like all air was sucked out of the room, but then I realized it was just me holding my breath waiting until her scene passed. After that, the thrill was gone and I turned off the television, so I missed the gratuitous exploitation of Carmine playing handball. I did however witness what can happen when two actors have genuine chemistry because when Melina and Carmine share the screen it draws the viewers in and makes them interested not only in the science of what they are saying but the underlying friendship and chemistry that passes between them. If the writers don’t know what chemistry, not in the romantic sense, looks like they need look no further than Stella and Danny, Flack and Danny, Stella and Flack, Mac and Danny, Hawkes and Hammerback, I could go on using various combinations of these six names – there is a name missing from my list, guess which one. You know what Danny and Vicaro had better chemistry than Danny and Lindsay, easy to do since they don’t have any, so bring back Vicaro and send Lindsay back to her wheat fields. Or see what Kelly Hu is doing and send Lindsay back to her wheat fields. . .

Ali
 
Top41 said:
Take for example, if Anna had stuck with the lighter Lindsay (which would have been my preference). Instead of yelling at suspects, she might have asked her questions with a sly smile and delivered lines with a cheery affability which could have masked her skill as an investigator.
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I think that would have worked a lot better for her. Could you imagine? In the midst of all of those hardcore CSIs, you get this nice, disarmingly polite young lady who gets a suspect to talk and they leave not sure if they've said something wrong or not. One of those girls who's smarter than she seems, who enjoys the fact that people write her off as a country bumpkin so she has the opportunity to jerk the rug out from under them and beat them with it. A girl who smiles as she delivers a fatal blow to someone's ego and politely informs a bad guy to drop his weapon or she'll be forced to shoot him in the head and, no, she won't feel a damn bit bad about it.

Sugar coated wickedness.

I don't know if Anna could pull that off, but I'd love to see it.

It would at least make for a more consistant and interesting character than what we've been given.
 
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