Why Lindsay Must Go

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Yowza, JDonne.

I can't say that Anna is an awful acress, because I've never seen her in anything else. I do think she'd work better in a lighter show, because she's not working so well in CSI. Angry/serious scenes are her weakest moments, but she's a lot easier to like in the lighter ones. The bow-and-arrow scene with Mac is a good example.

I think you're right about them trying to correct the show now would mean pulling the whole thing further off course. My point was (and I'm glad you agreed with) that had she been handled properly from the beginning, she might have come across as mildly irritating, rather than outright disliked. But she wasn't, and they've missed the boat.

Something that occurred to me this afternoon - both Lindsey and Natalia Boa Vista were introduced and immediately put into relationships with a main, popular male character. Both are disliked. However, Ryan Wolfe was introduced and allowed to develop on his own, and he's adored. Why?

I'm wondering why female characters in CSI have to be defined and shaped by their relationships with men. We've barely seen Tina in LV or Cindy in NY, but we were treated to a whole load of psycho Frankie, scum Eddie, and two-timer Hank. The list goes on. Why does Lindsey (as a character) need Danny to define who she is? Why does she has to suck up to Mac? It's patronising. (and no, I'm not a feminist!)

Would it have killed TPTB to have give us a strong woman who's actually good at her job and secure within herself? Oh wait - we had that, in Stella, and they felt the need to make her a victim. Score, TPTB.
 
Ladies, those are some epic posts! :D I agree with what JDonne says about Lindsay not really being a light, sunny character, even though at the outset I think that was the intention. Part of that is the writing and part of that is Anna--some people are naturally lovable (think Calleigh on Miami, who is both lovable and tough) and others just aren't. It kind of baffles me when people find Lindsay cute, because aside from the lone bow shooting incident in "Stuck on You" I've not seen a single cute thing about her character. That's not an insult either--Aiden wasn't "cute" but for different reasons--she was tough and capable. Lindsay is like the teacher's pet, and those types are never "cute." :lol:

Lyn said:
I think I felt so uncomfortable because it feels like I'm being forced into liking someone. Putting Lindsey on screen all of the time, putting her in a romance with the most popular character. It feels like I'm supposed to like her. Like I'm somehow bad or not "getting it" because I don't. I think I'd have found Lindsey more compelling if the writers had set out to make me hate her, because at least then it might have been more interesting.

That's what annoys me about her--how they keep trying to make us like her, and for the most part, they fail miserably. I know a lot of people hate Natalia on Miami, but the writers paint her more ambigiously. I don't think we're really supposed to like her all that much. Calleigh doesn't, and when the show's sweetheart doesn't like you, there's a problem.

But NY's show sweetheart, Danny, is supposed to like her, and I guess that's the writers way of telling us we're supposed to like her too. That and giving her a murder case that makes her sad--well, supposedly makes her sad but really just makes her scream at people obnoxiously.

I like to make up my own mind about characters, thanks, and the more I feel attempts are being made to manipulate me into liking her, the less I actually do.

Lyn said:
Something that occurred to me this afternoon - both Lindsey and Natalia Boa Vista were introduced and immediately put into relationships with a main, popular male character. Both are disliked. However, Ryan Wolfe was introduced and allowed to develop on his own, and he's adored. Why?

I'm wondering why female characters in CSI have to be defined and shaped by their relationships with men. We've barely seen Tina in LV or Cindy in NY, but we were treated to a whole load of psycho Frankie, scum Eddie, and two-timer Hank. The list goes on. Why does Lindsey (as a character) need Danny to define who she is? Why does she has to suck up to Mac? It's patronising. (and no, I'm not a feminist!)

You make an excellent point, and let's face it--there's no worse way to introduce a new character than to stick them into a romantic situation with one of the show's established and already beloved characters. Like you say above, if we were supposed to dislike her, I could buy it, but apparently we're not, so instead it's just irritating. All I know about Lindsay is that she comes from a small town and she'd like to get in Danny's pants. Oh, and she likes musicals, too. :lol: :rolleyes:

Would it have killed TPTB to have give us a strong woman who's actually good at her job and secure within herself? Oh wait - we had that, in Stella, and they felt the need to make her a victim. Score, TPTB.

No doubt Lindsay's dark secret will have to do with her being victimized too, because on CSI we love to see women victimized! :rolleyes: "All Access" was an atrocity from start to finish. I could rant about that again, but I'll refrain, and just wonder instead why the writers feel the need to take strong women down a peg or two by victimizing them.
 
Although i agree Anna's acting is poor(maybe an understatement :)),personally i find my problem with the character becoming more to do with the writing.It seems like the what the writers want the viewers to think and feel are completely opposite to what we actually do(guess i'm stating the obvious), yet they are determined to force their ideas upon us regardless.Are they writing the show for themselves?
what i thought the writers wanted me to think:
-A country girl with a dark secret moving to the big city.I can so relate.
-wow.Look at Lindsay using her super intuitive CSI skills to stalk her boss.How nice.
-If Danny 'likes'her i do too.
-She fits in so well that even though she's barely interacted with Stella she has a hissy fit over her problems.such a caring friend.
-Now that Aiden's gone for good with no hope of return,i can fully embrace the Lindsay character.

Personally,what i actually thought:
-ZZZZ...ZZZZ..ZZ...
-CREEP
-Keep your mitts off Danny!
-Get a grip and be proffessional.
-Never realised how much i liked Aiden.So the s3 finale will be the revelation that Lindsay killed her and framed Pratt.Can't wait.
 
ok.
so today, someone told me that this 3rd season is CSI: NY's last chance to prove themselves. cause apparently their ratings werent fabulous this year?
so...y'know that makes me downright upset.
so of course, you know who im blaming.
LINDSAY.
 
My God.Where did u hear that?i thought NY had good ratings. :( :( Noooo.panic overload.I too blame Lindsay :mad:-and the writers. I guess it can't be totally her fault tho she did mess with the dynamic. argh...
 
You know I was reading some of the NY threads on IMDB and came across yet again a condemnation of those that don’t like Lindsay because apparently we can’t get over Aiden’s departure and I am beyond tired of this particular ridiculous and false assumption. What are we doing, are we on bended knee by our bedside every night praying for Aiden’s miraculous rehydration from her unfortunate encounter with fire and then and only then will Lindsay be ushered off into the setting sun. Give me a break and then try again. How obtuse and arrogant do you have to be to honestly believe that those that like Lindsay are solely capable of loving Lindsay for whatever it is you see while those that find the character and actress lacking are not equally entitled to dislike her for all the reasons we’ve listed time and time again none of which include Aiden’s departure at the hands of her portrayer. Rather than counter an argument by attacking the people who disagree with you , your time would be better spent on countering the actual argument as opposed to attempting to denigrate people in your pursuit of rightness and superiority, because when your beginnings are so faulty it does nothing but tumble the rest of your words into nothingness.

Sorry for the rant everybody but I am so tired of seeing that and reading that, it has been a constant belief since early in the season and it is just tired and old at this point.

Ali
 
^no i totally agree with you!
i mean fiar enough, i think aiden was a HELL OF A LOT better. but her absence is not why i hate lindsay. lindsay should never have been added, because we had hawkes already? i dont know why the writers thought we needed someone else? bloody stupid people.
i mean hammerback replaced hawkes in the morgue and he is IMMENSE and i want his glasses, then hawkes came out onto the field.
so ehh...all lindsay seems to be doing is taking away other, much better, characters screen time.
GAWD.
 
Some of us didn't even like Aiden, until we were given Lindsey. After a season of Lindsey, I totally loved Aiden. So Lindsey made me miss Aiden. So it's all Lindsey's fault.
 
The argument that people hate Lindsay because they are mad Aiden is no longer on the show makes me laugh. It's absurd.

I loved Speed on Miami. He was far and away my favorite character on that show. I was very upset when I heard he was leaving, and getting killed off on top of that. Enter Ryan. I pretty much liked him right away, and the longer he was on the show, the more I liked him. Did I miss Speed? Sure. But that had no bearing on whether or not I liked Ryan. They're two different characters! :rolleyes:

Aiden was okay. I liked her--I certainly thought she was a good part of the show. She fit in well with the team and had a great dynamic with everyone on it. I was sorry to see her go, but nowhere near as attached to her as I was to Speed on Miami.

If Lindsay had been replacing Hillborn (a character few of us like! :lol: ), she still would have sucked. Lindsay sucks all on her own. I don't need to compare Anna's acting to Vanessa's--I can compare it to any other person on CSI: NY or any other CSI show and find it lacking.

Likewise, I can compare Lindsay to any other CSI character (even supporting ones!) and find her lacking. But really, I can just look at Lindsay all on her own--independent of Aiden or Danny or Mac or any other character and find her lacking because she's a mixture of overused cliches and isn't appealing in the least. And that has nothing to do with Aiden or any other character other than Lindsay herself.
 
Hating a character just because they replaced another is so silly! :lol: I don't get it. I mean, okay, the characters gone...Well...have a little cry and move on. That's life. Shouldn't take it out on someone else.

Don't get me wrong, I love Aiden to pieces, and the fact that they brought her back to kill her kinda made me mad, but I thought it made for a good episode ('cept Lindsay was there and acting like she'd known Aiden). But like I said, that's life. If someone were to get fired at your work, and then someone came to replace them, I wouldn't exactly say it's right to just hate them for that, eh?

If Lindsay had been replacing Hillborn (a character few of us like! ), she still would have sucked. Lindsay sucks all on her own. I don't need to compare Anna's acting to Vanessa's--I can compare it to any other person on CSI: NY or any other CSI show and find it lacking.

Likewise, I can compare Lindsay to any other CSI character (even supporting ones!) and find her lacking. But really, I can just look at Lindsay all on her own--independent of Aiden or Danny or Mac or any other character and find her lacking because she's a mixture of overused cliches and isn't appealing in the least. And that has nothing to do with Aiden or any other character other than Lindsay herself.
My thoughts exactly. Lindsay's just...blech. She's blech all by herself. She does it herself (with the writers help, o'course). It doesn't matter who she replaces.

lindsay should never have been added, because we had hawkes already? i dont know why the writers thought we needed someone else?
I think they added her so no one thought they were being sexist by getting rid of a girl and bringing in a guy. Which is ridiculous, because Stella's good at handling the guys herself. I wouldn't even have noticed there was only one lady, and even if I did, I don't think I would have cared. I'd translate it into women being able to handle more men at once rather than the show being sexist. And besides, it would give us a chance to see super-strong, I-am-woman-hear-me-roar Stella. With another female, they haven't shown that, which whould have been amusing. Ha...Stella pushing the boys around...

Sure, the show escaped the critics' wrath (but what do they know? I've found whenever the critics say something's good, it isn't, and when it's bad, it isn't (in my opinion)), but they lost many fans' support as well.

I'd like to think that the fans matter more than the critics, though.

So I figure Lindsay's the way to stay clear of any sexist remarks towards the producers. More support for that? They made her practically perfect! She's impressive, strong, stoic yet emotional at the same time, etc. And I didn't mean any of that in a flattering way, mind you.
 
I really don't see Lindsay as being practically perfect. More of the opposite, really. Nor do I see her as impressive, strong, certainly not stoic, yes, very much emotional. I've yet to see her do anything that any of the others couldn't do. As far as strength goes...inconsistent signals at best. She falls into a shrieking fit at the drop of a hat....or would that be at the flash of a cue card saying "act upset now"?

As far as the show being sexist with Stella the only female, I don't know. From what I've understood the CSIs have always been watched by more females than males. Being female, myself, I say get rid of the dead weight known as Lindsay and bring on the eyecandy with brains and badges.

More than anything, though, especially after watching the House finale which put all others to shame, I want writers who are good at their job and can tell a damn good tale.
 
Perhpas 'stoic' wasn't the best word, eh? I always have trouble picking my words...Personally, I didn't find her emotional at all (well, maybe just a little) in the beginning of the season. Towards the end, though, she does become super inconsistent. And it isn't any fun to watch. Of course, my friend would disagree there, but he never quite knows what he's talking about. :rolleyes:

While the show being sexist isn't really my opinion, I know there are those out there who would disagree because there are always less females than males. But that doesn't bother me. ESPECIALLY if that means there's more hot men to go around. ;) I still would like to see Lindsay change into a better character (not suddenly of course, or that would just...be really inconsistent), but if that's not gonna work, she should just go.

Yeah, the House finale was great! CSI:NY has its moments, but, yeah, they need writers like the House guys. I agree.
 
Another thing that really bothers me about Lindsay is how self-centered she is. The cases aren't about the victims--it's all about Lindsay. It seems much of the time she is more concerned about Danny, her own cleverness (and impressing her boss), or her own issues than she is about the victims whose deaths she is investigating. Even with the mermaid girl, it was about how Lindsay related to her, and with Lillian Stanwick it was about how seeing her dead made Lindsay feel (that terrible "She makes me feel so vulnerable" line).

I think that's a lot of the reason I dislike her so much. In a show where the characters tend to be so compassionate--Mac in "The Closer" and "Supply and Demand," Hawkes in "Corporate Warriors," Danny all the time--she really sticks out as self-centered and totally in love with herself. She makes things--like Stella's victimization--all about her.

I don't mind a character, male or female, being stoic. Stella is stoic--compassion isn't her thing. But with Stella I never get the feeling that she's investigating to show off her own cleverness. With Lindsay, I always do.
 
I have suspected for some time now that the writers know that Lindsay’s character has not meshed with the team and has not won over the show’s fans and they have desperately tried to resolve these problems throughout the season with little or no success.

We began the season with the overbearing, over eager, hyper-competitive, sycophantic, snatching, can’t take a joke, whining Lindsay. This Lindsay didn’t work, I know I know hold back your looks of shock and dismay, apparently, this sent the writers scrambling to right the wrongs they committed on a weekly basis with this character. They scoured the boards wondering where they had gone wrong. Was it when she whined about processing evidence back at the lab while the blood of dead teenagers coated every surface in sight? Was it when she snatched from Hammerback and cut off his explanation without apology or concern? Was it when she raced an unaware Danny in completing tests that could nail a criminal? An act that I’m sure the grieving family would be delighted to know occurred. I would certainly be fine with criminalists racing through tests that might give me the answers that I need for closure. I mean who cares about accuracy when there is speed to consider, not to mention, it apparently makes a great backwoods mating ritual the goal of which is to discover just what the office hottie is packing in his just for the ladies jeans. Maybe, it was when she took great liberties with her boss by smearing some rank goop under his nose in a moment reminiscent of a child balancing on one foot on a rusted balance beam with nails sticking through the surface going look at me ma look at me I’m an attention starved freak who will do anything to get people to love me. Just like the mother that continues to stare off in the distance waiting for some romance novel brooding man to take her away from it all so too does the audience await Danny’s resurfacing from his catatonia to say what we can’t – go the hell away Lindsay and please stop talking.

Alas, that did not happen, what happened was the writers ushered in the age of the kinder, quirkier, cuter, softer, teasing, smitten, schoolgirl Lindsay, with a little stalker on the side, kudos for the writers foreshadowing the full blown obsessive and unstable Lindsay. Sadly, this era brought with it the beginning of the ill fated and hopefully Titanic like ship known as obsessed Lindsay and bored Danny as portrayed by a miscast Anna and uninterested Carmine. Pimping Carmine for the sake of female viewers is one thing, hell pimp all the men you have my full support and cooperation, but doing it to manipulate your audience into liking another character is tacky, cheap, and if not beneath you, which it obviously is not, is certainly beneath me. I don’t buy the chemistry and I don’t believe TPTB buy it either if they did it would be as classy and subtle as, debatably, Warrick and Catherine or even Grissom and Sara, you don’t have to sell what pops off the screen, you don’t have to include obviously manufactured conversation to prove that there is a connection if it is genuine. Because, if it were genuine their every exchange would hold something just beneath the surface, it would have an undeniable edge, their very attraction would attract the viewer. Danny and Lindsay repel. The audience is smart enough to read subtext, but with Danny and Lindsay it can’t because the actors have zero chemistry and without the overt signs added by the writers everyone would miss it, it’s not cute it is vile.

However, we had the momentary cuteness known as the bow and arrow scene that Lindsay lovers, likers, and detractors can all agree was adorable in it’s innocence until the snatchy Lindsay reared her ugly head and stuck her hand out to demanded more arrows from the boss. The boss that she knows better than Danny because she spent her lonely NY nights shopping for green maternity prom dress circa Molly Ringwald and following Mac to prove a point to Danny in another obscure mating ritual. If only we’d been privy to Lindsay’s tactics and techniques on dating and flirting sooner, the number of times we could have scored would have been unfathomable, luckily even without her helpful guidance some of us no doubt managed to date and dare I say get laid over the years. However, I digress, let us return to the era I’ve personally dubbed heinous yet harmless Lindsay because I have few recollections of her being on the show during these episodes. Frankly, that’s the way I like it if I can’t have back in Montana Lindsay, but the memories I do have are like a sinus headache on crack, save the 10 seconds of childlike adorableness and isn’t that all can ask from the over 60,000 seconds of NY this season. Anthony, Tim, and other writers that bit about isn’t that all we can ask was sarcasm, I thought I would point it out because lately the art of writing has escaped you all as a collective.

Surprisingly that era didn’t last, you can only pretend like someone isn’t on a show for so long and that holds true for me as well as the writers who took the opportunity to kick Lindsay into high gear thinking they were safe since few were calling for her deportation or imprisonment, maybe to kick her a few times but that is basically harmless. Theoretically speaking I think we could have collected the accumulated spent carbon dioxide laden air that nationwide was expelled in sighs of grief, pain, frustration and exhaustion during the shrill (Super Men), shrieking(pick one), emotionally unstable (All Access), insensitive (Heroes), obsessive (Cool Hunter, Heroes and Stealing Home), stalkerish (Live or Let Die, RSRD and Heroes), humourless (Necrophilia Americana), necrophiliac (Stealing Home) Lindsay era, that concluded the season, and used it as an agent of biological warfare.

Now, I’ll be the first to admit that Lindsay lost any hope of me liking her by the fifth or sixth episode of the season, but if she hadn’t the last eight episodes of the season would have been a death march. I mean my death march not hers because I found her so intolerable that I just wanted someone to hit me really hard in the side of the head to end it all because if this isn’t DefCon 1 and a sign of the apocalypse I don’t know what is. I almost suffocated during this era because I would hold my breath watching and waiting for the unfortunate and painful Danny/Lindsay moment that we all knew was coming because what is an episode without it. By the way, an episode without it is tolerable, watchable, I won’t get carried away and say enjoyable because we all know the writing and show’s direction was trash this season. Again, a big thank you to Les Moonves for the savvy changes he suggested no demanded for the good of the series, which experienced little overall growth from its season premiere. However, again I digress from my true purpose, which is why Lindsay must go.

I find comfort in the knowledge that the writers constant tinkering is a sign that they too realize what the problem is and have sought tirelessly to correct it all season now here comes the condemnation perhaps they were so focused on fixing this problem that the show became neglected an afterthought in the wake if the Lindsay issue. A problem that I believe is unfixable so long as Lindsay remains because no matter what the writers come up with we still have Anna Belknap in a role she cannot fill or sell, sometimes it is better to admit an error and correct it no matter how unpleasant the solution rather than letting it fester and stink. If this is the case then the writing problem is one that is easily corrected, if you don’t have to worry about constantly morphing Lindsay so the audience embraces her character, and let me just say that after an entire season minds are pretty much made up, then when can focus on the episodes at large, character development for the neglected, storylines that intrigue and engage, plots with small holes rather than gaping ones, true chemistry between the actors, and than and only then can you resuscitate what I fear is a dying show, possibly not commercially but critically and in some small way I would hope that in the end what Anthony Zuiker wants is respect over dollar bills.

Ali
 
JDonne can I say that your post just made me your hero? :D You pointed out every single aspect on what is going wrong with this character!

*huggles*
 
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