Why Lindsay Must Go

[Jaer]

As great as the satisfaction would have been to vote the D/L ship to Hades, I'm glad someone else had the fun. I swear the whole thought of it is killing my brain cells, when I saw the post with D/H, D/F, and D/S above I went mentally Danny/Flack, Danny/Stella and Danny/Horatio and I could not figure out why someone would want to go there. The Danny/Hawkes thing took a bit.

Hawkes has got to get more time on screen.

As for Danny 'selling' Linday...Carmine's good, but I don't think even he could be that good.

 

[bklynCSIfanatic]

Top41 said:

bklynCSIfanatic said:
Lindsay is okay with me, but they need to NIX the D/L, because its really nauseating. The only Danny ships I'm for is: D/H, D/F, and D/S.

Danny pretty much has chemistry with everyone else but Lindsay. If we want to be realistic as to what we'll see on screen--I think he sparks much more with Stella or Maka, both of whom strike me as the type of woman he'd go for. I don't mind flirtation between the characters, but when it falls flat like it does between Danny and Lindsay, it's time to stop writing it. It seems like the harder the writers push it, the worse it comes out on screen.

ITA, half the time I find myself dozing off at D/L scenes in any shape or form. Danny packs more vibes with Stella and Maka, because they are more in touch with where he's at, and are not confused by it. I hope the idea of D/L is erased next season, and the show goes back to business.

 

[Top41]

Jaer said:
As for Danny 'selling' Linday...Carmine's good, but I don't think even he could be that good.

I think this season has proved a strong actor/character can't carry a weak actor/character. They tried and they tried and they tried, but it got worse as it went on. Carmine, who is usually so good and always so energetic, seemed to deflate in their scenes together. His delivery of the lines, while never anywhere near as bad as hers, came off pretty flat and unenthused. Doing that to their most popular character was a major misstep.

And Hill--this really should have been Hawkes' year. We should have gotten great story lines about him trying to reconcile being both a doctor/former ME and a CSI. Like when he tried to save the guy in "Grand Murder"--that was a fantastic moment. Instead he got shoved aside so we could watch Lindsay try fruitlessly to become part of the team.

 

[Silencer]

Top41 said:
And Hill--this really should have been Hawkes' year. We should have gotten great story lines about him trying to reconcile being both a doctor/former ME and a CSI. Like when he tried to save the guy in "Grand Murder"--that was a fantastic moment. Instead he got shoved aside so we could watch Lindsay try fruitlessly to become part of the team.

I totally agree. I know I keep saying it - but I believe that anything Lindsey brings to the show is done better by Sheldon. Emotion, compassion, that need to learn. He could have brought so much to the team - he's a doctor, for crying out loud! Him and Danny could have been an awesome team - something akin to Warrick/Nick or Delko/Speedle. Instead he was pushed aside and ended up being a glorified lab rat for most of the season.

Also - I am not a shipper. I don't usually ship. I do notice shippy moments though, and I like them to be subtle, amusing. To have them stuck up my nose and be told "LOOK, THEY SO LIKE EACH OTHER, CAN YOU SEE? CAN YOU?!" is beyond annoying, if not downright patronising. The lack of chemistry only makes it worse. It totally killed the latter half of the series for me, because I was just dreading any scene with the two of them in it.

I think I could have lived with Lindsey a whole lot better if I'd seen her work and become friends with Danny first. If she'd been introduced and intergrated properly, like Ryan was.

Maka had way more chemistry with Danny, and we barely ever see her in either series. Do I want to see Maka get it on with Danny? Hell no, but I don't mind them hinting at it. Did I enjoy the flirting? Yes, it was downright laugh-out-loud funny. So why is Lindsey/Danny so horribly painful?

 

[Guest]

Is it always painful? The painful bits are when they really don't need to put anything in there, for example the whole Hammerback "because he has a crush on you" thing. That was awful. No need for that.

 

[Silencer]

After a certain point, yes. Because I knew they were going to "treat" me to some D/L "action" at some point. Was the marriage remark painful? Yes. Was the need to have Danny carry her painful? Yes. Was the whole phone-sex-conversation painful? Yes. I winced every time. Even the finale, to a point, was me waiting for something to happen.

Non-painful bits? *thinks...*

I think, for me, there was no need to make these two even remotely couple-y. I don't understand why they did it.

 

[Top41]

vaudeville said:
Is it always painful? The painful bits are when they really don't need to put anything in there, for example the whole Hammerback "because he has a crush on you" thing. That was awful. No need for that.

Yes, because they have no chemistry. I'm all for flirting, and it makes me smile with other couples, even if I don't necessarily want to see them get together. I'm not a Mac/Stella shipper, but they made me smile at the end of "ReCycling." I love when Stella and Flack interact.

But Danny and Lindsay's flirting always feels scripted. I can sense the "insert cute line here" every time they "flirt." Danny has much better chemistry with Stella and Maka; Lindsay is much more natural with Mac.

But I wouldn't even care if the Danny and Lindsay stuff weren't so prominent, in our faces in such a juvenile way. Crushes and fishing for information after a colleague has died really don't fit in with a serious crime drama. Leave that stuff in high school where it belongs.

 

[Guest]

That was a point I was going to make in my previous post, but decided otherwise. It is scripted. It's not as great as the "chemistry" between another pair because in all likelihood that other pair is not going to go anywhere as this D/L thing probably will do. I have a feeling that it would not be so prominent (as you rightly put it) unless there is a certain direction. Thus I think it will all end with a bang (but on good terms, for the sake of the much loved team togetherness on these boards) one episode sooner or later, probably intertwined with some Lindsay backstory or something.

I'm rambling now. I probably don't know where I stand on it all now. I guess I understand and sympathise with you about it but it doesn't really bother me. It's pretty frustrating in a way!

 

[Jaer]

vaudeville said:
That was a point I was going to make in my previous post, but decided otherwise. It is scripted. It's not as great as the "chemistry" between another pair because in all likelihood that other pair is not going to go anywhere as this D/L thing probably will do. I have a feeling that it would not be so prominent (as you rightly put it) unless there is a certain direction. Thus I think it will all end with a bang (but on good terms, for the sake of the much loved team togetherness on these boards) one episode sooner or later, probably intertwined with some Lindsay backstory or something.

I'm rambling now. I probably don't know where I stand on it all now. I guess I understand and sympathise with you about it but it doesn't really bother me. It's pretty frustrating in a way!

I'm not entirely sure I understand what you're saying, so I'm going to nod and smile encouragingly.

I've tried to think of one scene where Lindsay didn't come off in various degrees as annoying to me and I can't. I think I gave her a lot more leeway in Zoo York because she was new and I really wanted to like her, but as has been said before, she's gotten worse, not better. Now it's time to stop beating the dead horse (or D/L ship) and put a fork in it, 'cause it's done. I don't care how they do it...even if they move her to the lab and out of the field and give her as much time as Adam, whatever, just get her out of the opening credits 'cause that's where I start gritting my teeth.

 

[ThumpyG]

^ I feel your pain, Jaer. During 'All Access', Lindsay's first word she spoke irritated me to the point of briefly muting the television so I wouldn't have to endure her annoying voice. She didn't irritate me nearly as much on Charge of this Post, but I was in a pretty good mood that night, so I was feeling generous.

 

[Guest]

Jaer said:
I'm not entirely sure I understand what you're saying, so I'm going to nod and smile encouragingly.

No worries. I didn't really know what I was typing either, too tired. Working crazy shifts this week.

It's probably best to ignore the first paragraph where I waffled and just read the second one.

 

[Top41]

Jaer said:
I've tried to think of one scene where Lindsay didn't come off in various degrees as annoying to me and I can't. I think I gave her a lot more leeway in Zoo York because she was new and I really wanted to like her, but as has been said before, she's gotten worse, not better. Now it's time to stop beating the dead horse (or D/L ship) and put a fork in it, 'cause it's done. I don't care how they do it...even if they move her to the lab and out of the field and give her as much time as Adam, whatever, just get her out of the opening credits 'cause that's where I start gritting my teeth.

I've tried to like the character, too. She grated a little in "Zoo York," but it was in the next few episodes where she really got on my nerves. The teacher's pet stuff really irritated me.

I guess for me her high point was around "Stuck on You" and "Cool Hunter." I was really trying hard to like her then, and I think that's around the time she was at her most likable.

After that, I think I started to notice the bad acting, and the fact that Anna was clearly reading from a script.

And when the screaming started, all bets were off. Bad acting, bad delivery, bad character...there was nothing redeeming about her for me.

To be fair, I blame the writers for most of the bad Danny/Lindsay interaction. The actors can't help that they don't have chemistry. But the writers are the ones writing the terribly trite and stupid lines they have to deliver, and the writers should have been watching the episodes and picking up on the lack of chemistry between the two. It was more evident than ever towards the end of the season, so my fingers are crossed that it will get dropped next season.

 

[JDonne]

vaudeville said:
Is it always painful? The painful bits are when they really don't need to put anything in there, for example the whole Hammerback "because he has a crush on you" thing. That was awful. No need for that.

I think it is always painful because they have never had any chemistry with one another, they don't light up the screen when they are together it is more along the lines of grit your teeth and bare it. However, when it becomes incessant and unceasing like a rash well then the anger set sin and you just want it to stop at any cost. When you couple a lack of chemistry with an unlikable character and that character is portrayed by someone that can't act, you just hope that the pain ends quickly. There was no escape, no place to turn other than your television into the off position and that is where mine will be if they continue this nonsense. Anna isn't good for the show, and I'm sorry if making the show better means her needing to look for new employment, but acting is not a secure field so she obviously isn't caught up in the idea of job stability.

I think the bottom line is that Lindsay is an awful character and truly lacks anything worthy or interesting, Anna is not a good fit for this show, and her acting leaves much to be desired.

Ali

 

[Silencer]

I know for a lot of people, we must come across as one-trick ponies, always banging on the same complaints. I don't want to dislike a character in my favourite show. I don't want to cringe and feel disppointment when I see interactions between certain characters. But I do. And for me, that indicates a major problem. At the end of series two, I was dreading seeing Danny even, because I knew where he went, Lindsey would follow and I'd have to witness another pointless scene between the two.

CSI is a crime show. I watch it because I like crime shows. If I wanted romance, I'd go watch Friends or something, because at least they'd do it well. It's not just NY - I squicked at the love triangle on Miami, and I'm still squicking over Grissom and Sara, although that particular ship was handled 100% better than the Danny/Lindsey one.

I have no problem with Anna as an actress. I think she'd be fab in something like Friends or a lighter comedy. My problem is that she was given a character that the writers themselves don't seem sure of in a crime drama and wasn't able to integrate it properly. Lindsey is an inconsistant, undeveloped character, written into a juvenile relationship with no chemistry and no basis. Flirty scenes come off as flat. Angry scenes come off as flat.

I still can't quite grasp why a character was introduced when we already had a new CSI. Saying that, I liked Lindsey for those first few eps. She was new and I was interested in her. But episode after episode of putting her soley with Danny or Mac, of pushing her forwards at the expense of Hawkes, of the same thing, over and over again - I got tired. And then the flirting scenes started. Every. Episode.

I could have coped with them had they not been so jarring, so out of place at times. Why is Lindsey getting Danny to assist her with something when they're not working together? Why do the two of them invariably end up working on cases together? Why is Lindsey asking about Danny when they're working the murder of one of his friends? To me, it wasted the potential for a Lindsey/Stella friendship. Catherine and Sara agree to disagree - it would have been nice to see a strong friendship form between two female CSIs. Same with the male CSIs - Danny and Flack have the strongest friendship in the show, bar maybe Mac & Stella. Throwing Hawkes into that mix could have been fascinating. Even Hawkes/Lindsey would have been interesting. (There are a number of cases where Danny & Lindsey work with Mac - Hawkes could have been substituted for Danny in any one of these) Even Danny and Lindsey as FRIENDS would have been more interesting than the forced romance we had to endure in season 2, the romance which seemed to envelop and swallow everything else. Take RSRD - we get close-ups of Lindsey's anxious face, when his best friend is standing there and has little or no intereaction with him throughout the whole ep. It made no sense.

Instead, we got Danny/Lindsey/Mac for umpteen episodes. They're not a team, they're a selection of individuals atm, except for Danny/Lindsey who are joined at the hip. They need to address this in series 3 - bring back the sense of cohesiveness.

The whole thing smacks of bad writing. The whole thing could have been handled so much better than it was. We could have had more interactions between Stella and Lindsey, which would have made Lindsey's outburst in "All Access" more feasible. We could have had a more gradual introduction for Lindsey, with no forced romance and stupid lines, and focused on her becoming friends with all of the characters. Have her defined by something else other than "she's the new girl" and "she likes Danny". Give her a specialisation! Give her a hobby! Give her something which makes her a character in her own right, a woman who does her job and doesn't need to be defined by who she fancies. We could have had equal amounts of screentime for all of the CSIs, so it doesn't feel like one person is dominating.

I think I felt so uncomfortable because it feels like I'm being forced into liking someone. Putting Lindsey on screen all of the time, putting her in a romance with the most popular character. It feels like I'm supposed to like her. Like I'm somehow bad or not "getting it" because I don't. I think I'd have found Lindsey more compelling if the writers had set out to make me hate her, because at least then it might have been more interesting.

 

[JDonne]

Lyn's long post inspired me to think some more on Lindsay, sorry about the lack of parahraph breaks.

I absolutly agree and believe the writers should shoulder some of the blame for the failure in Lindsay’s characterization, however I also believe Anna shares that blame with them. I don’t believe that had the writing been better it would have made Anna a better fit for NY. An actor’s job is to sell a character, bad lines, bad background, bad set up, and all. The writing was atrocious all around this season not just in the case of Lindsay and yet everyone else managed to keep their wits about them and their talent at the forefront still making me believe with each outing that I was watching Stella Bonasera, Danny Messer, Don Flack, and all the rest, but never with Anna. The limitations on her dramatic skills are apparent to me when I see her on WOT playing essentially the same person she is on NY and the same with moments on The Handler and Medical Investigations, that is because all we ever see is Anna. Anna’s inability to disappear is a detriment in dramatic roles and it makes her stick out like a sore thumb, I agree perhaps a comedic role would suit her better. I’m not convinced that the character is redeemable because what it would take to make a course correction would be so severe and so omnipresent that it would inevitably steer the show even further off course. It would dedicate yet another season to highlighting a character that is not worthy of the attention or an actress whom I believe is not fully invested in her role. They can’t back track now and do all the things they should have done when she was a new character they have spent an entire season showing us how she is acclimated and showing us what a member of the team she is that they can’t go back now and show us the emerging bonds of friendship without it looking like what it is a small inadequate band-aid on a large gaping wound. Even if they did attempt a course correction I’m not sure Anna could pull it off, nothing has indicated that she has the ability to do so. I’ve never been fond of the character and my dislike grew each week, but I don’t ever think Lindsay was supposed to be this bouncy friendly character otherwise why have her snatch, because that was the final straw for me there is unadulterated enthusiasm and there is just plain rude. Honestly, I have always found the character and little overbearing and a lot obnoxious. It certainly wasn’t helped by the writers constantly trying to convince me that I was supposed to like her, how can you not like her shtick. Rather than feeling stupid over not liking her I felt insulted and angry by the writers’ blatant manipulation tactics of pairing her with the show’s most popular character hoping that she would become popular through her mere proximity to Danny rather than going back to the drawing board mid-season and undoing the mess they made. I don’t mind little hints a romance or outside lives even on crime shows, but I do demand that they be believable, I do demand that the actors have a obvious chemistry to them, and I do finally demand that it not become so obvious that people can’t help but mention disappointment when a scene between the two characters doesn’t happen or unbridled giggly joy when one does. I mean what about the cases, what about the way the characters develop because of their cases, and the impact it has on their lives isn’t that what this show should be about every week? I have to admit I’m perplexed about why the writers fought so hard to make us believe in Danny and Lindsay this season, why it seemed to be their sole agenda, until the final episode, because I can’t think of any reason other than they hoped to make an unplanned and undeveloped character work and this was the fastest and laziest way to do so. The attempts to fill Danny and Lindsay’s conversations with sexual innuendo as they did with Danny and Aiden was sigh worthy and just plain annoying. Where as Aiden seemed game for the challenge Lindsay comes off like a confused 4th grader being introduced to the nuances of intimacy, in those scenes Lindsay comes across as the shy wall flower girl who giggles during a chaste movie kiss, and I ask myself is she just this clueless and unskilled at the art of flirtation. I find the pairing intolerable and like Lyn, I dread seeing Danny on screen because I know Lindsay is sure to follow, to come yapping at his heels as if to say I’m cute Danny loves me according to the writers so you should to, you should love me. I say to that I would settle for liking Lindsay, for liking Anna’s portrayal, sadly, I don’t and I never will.

Ali