Why Lindsay Must Go (Part 3)

[Kimmychu]

Elwood21 said:

If great actors like Melina, Gary, Hill, Carmine, and Eddie can't bring the best out of Anna..there is no hope.

I think we've seen her best, hard as that notion is to take, and I don't think there's a better. She just don't fit, and no, no hope for her ever finding a way to make the character palatable or redeem her performances.

That's what boggles and amuses me at the same time. She's already being propped up as it is by the other members of the cast and yet her subpar acting is so apparent. What do you guys think it must be like without any propping from anyone? :wtf:

I'm figuring the main reason, after Belknap being pregnant in real life, for this Lindsay pregnancy storyline happening at all is because TPTB is acknowledging how weak an actress she is and has been forced to chain her to Danny for as long as possible. Chances are, the idea is that her having to act on her own will probably make the ratings suffer more than her being propped up.

Last season, there were two major drops in viewer rating after episodes that clearly had Drama Llama in it. (We're talking drops of over one to two million here.) And conversely, the ratings went up when Rikki was involved. (At least over a million for each time.) So in retrospect, TPTB brought Rikki back and intended for Rikki to be the pregnant one because they knew Rikki brought the ratings to the yard. Which just makes this very-last-minute change of storyline to accommodate Belknap's real life pregnancy a major disappointment in terms of story and writing. It not only undermines the whole Ruben-Rikki storyline, it also undermines the writers and the show overall.

Seriously, when you have to come up with multiple Q&As just to justify the storyline, much less explain it and how it's supposed to work, it's a surefire sign it's a bad, bad one. A good story always stands well on its own, from start to finish.

I had thought maybe that was a way for Anna to avoid shooting on location so much while pregnant, but if they were all done before that was a consideration, then maybe they were already pushing her even further to the background.

Indeed, very telling. Personally, I think it's sad as hell if TPTB decided to write in the pregnancy because they couldn't think of a damn thing for Lindsay's character and realized they had to think of something due to her on contract as a main character and nothing else.

Hella more sad, this supposedly big development involving Lindsay ... is all about Danny. :guffaw: Like some of you guys have mentioned, it's like even TPTB knows she's no good at acting and wants to minimize whatever damage she may cause to the show and its ratings by making it all about Danny. If it's all about Danny, that means Carmine will be taking the load of carrying the storyline through, and that alone says volumes.

All they can likely do is let her contract ride out. A pregnancy does not mean she's unable to meet her obligations, and also means that any work deferred for Leave is just that and not necessarily deducted from the totality of work given within the contract. Meaning she'll be back. Aside from the qualifying issue of being pregnant, even if she weren't it would generally be messy with the collective bargaining agreement with SAG to do anything other. I'm assuming she's SAG/AFTRA/Equity, one or more. I'm assuming they'd have recourse thru grievances and all to make firing difficult, arbitration or a settlement expensive, and a the whole thing a nasty headache to contemplate, despite the less than favourable impact she's had on the show.

Interesting information. If TPTB considers firing her, I can see why it would be difficult and a pain in the ass. So question time: If it gets proven she really is the reason ratings fall, do you think TPTB will do anything about it?

If they keep minimalizing Belknap's screen time I'll be happy. And if she's further reduced to only being present via being talked about by other characters with an accompanying flashback montage like in Cost of Living, I'm all for it.

I'm all for that too. Thing is, there's only so many times TPTB can pull that stunt before people start wondering why she's even there in the first place. Oh, wait. We already are.

The show didn't miss Lindsay at all for Anna's first maternity leave, certainly don't think she'll be missed this time around either. I can only guess the producers are counting the days. I am. Maybe a shooter-based weekly advent calendar would make things easier to take until she's done.

:lol: A shooter-based calendar! I like that. But seriously, I believe she was away on maternity leave the first time for about ... two to three episodes? The ratings weren't affected in any way at all by her absence, and the reviews for those episodes were generally favorable too. If I remember correctly, one of those episodes' ratings did better while she was gone. Says a whole lot right there.

It does make it look like a sudden resurging Lindsay presence and bombshell pregnancy could be all the worse for coming out of the blue, but at least I know when it's coming, and hopefully having it 'seen thru Danny's eyes' will mean she's not given much screen time to mangle.

Yep. The utter lack of build up to it will only serve to undermine its believability. For such a heavy storyline, it's going to need all the believability and all the acting chops Carmine has it can get to pull it through. (And honestly, even with all that in place, I doubt the storyline will do well.)

Faylinn said:
Basically, AJ and Bob proved themselves and their characters for a while before they got put with the regs, but they apparently gave Anna the benefit of the doubt.

Even after an audition the actress herself claimed numerous times sucked. :brickwall: It just makes TPTB look damn desperate for any actress to replace Vanessa Ferlito, like they had no time to audition other better actresses and picked the first country girl-like actress to pass their way or something.

I believe the 'with' and the 'and' are special designations - being at the end is actually a good thing, if I remember correctly.

Isn't it something like, the cast member at the very end is the most popular one/has the most credits to his or her resume after the main star? Eddie did quite a number of films and television shows before signing up for CSI:NY, popular ones too like Miracle and Sex in the City and Friends.

As a random note, I just found this article, in which it states that Mac was originally going to be named "Rick Calucci". :lol: I don't know why that's funny to me. I can't imagine Mac being anybody but, well, Mac.

:guffaw: Rick Calucci?! Mac is so not a Rick or a Calucci. I'd give a name like that to a character for Carmine, him being the Italian on the cast and all.

Elwood21 said:
Huh, interesting they had Carmine and Vanessa Ferlito locked into place while Stella was up in the air.

Always did suspect TPTB intended to pair Danny and Aiden up if it wasn't for Ferlito leaving. The flirting, including Danny outright eyeballing her and complimenting her on her looks, and great chemistry between them pointed to the possibility of them getting together later on. Danny/Aiden, I woulda gone for that like a Rottweiler on a steak. Aiden was a real woman, the genuine tough girl with a funny streak who knew exactly what she wanted, wasn't afraid to speak her mind and had no qualms about smacking people if they acted up, namely Danny. :lol:

cSiNyFrEaK30 said:
i know lindsay fans are upset that she wasn't more involved with last nights episode, citing that "they gave her stuff to do last time when she was pregnant, why not now?" it seems to me, once again, people are making excuses for her.

Yep, pretty much.

Faylinn said:
In an interview done some time last season, Anna said she was on a part time-ish schedule already, so I imagine being pregnant again, she'll probably step it back even more for the time being. She worked for a long time when she was pregnant during S3, and she came back really quickly - I'm just speculating, but it's possible she decided to take a lighter load this time, knowing as she now does what the experience is like.

That was her with just one child back in season three. This time, she'll have to take care of a toddler and a newborn baby. If she already has such minimal screen time before the baby is even born, I won't be surprised if we see next to no Lindsay in the latter half of season five, regardless of the pregnancy storyline line. Heck, I won't be surprised if TPTB comes up with some news in the future that Lindsay will become a recurring character instead.

 

[Faylinn]

I believe she was away on maternity leave the first time for about ... two to three episodes?

And did they even publicize her return? I don't think the promos for 3.18 even mentioned that she was coming back, much less that her past was being explored (did it?) - I don't think the press release made a peep about it either. We knew she was coming back, but was there anything to tell the average viewer that she would be there? I don't remember anything, but I could be wrong.

I mean hell, the promo for 5.06 on CBS spent a lot of time on Adam's job status, and I doubt that's even that big of a deal in the long-run.

 

[cSiNyFrEaK30]

I mean hell, the promo for 5.06 on CBS spent a lot of time on Adam's job status, and I doubt that's even that big of a deal in the long-run.

Kind of makes me wonder if they will bother putting Lindsay in the promos for the episode when she drops the pregnancy bomb on Danny...

The lack of her in any big promos for any of the episodes when she's had 'big" storylines is interesting though. I would think if they really were serious about the storylines and think Anna gave "jaw dropping" performance , they would advertise it a little bit more.

 

[WhosLaughingNow]

They even publicize her return? I don't think the promos for 3.18 even mentioned that she was coming back, much less that her past was being explored (did it?) - I don't think the press release made a peep about it either. We knew she was coming back, but was there anything to tell the average viewer that she would be there? I don't remember anything, but I could be wrong.

I mean hell, the promo for 5.06 on CBS spent a lot of time on Adam's job status, and I doubt that's even that big of a deal in the long-run.

Honest to God the girl doesn't seem all that promo worthy. A lot of my friends who watch CSI:NY on a fairly regular basis don't have any idea who Lindsay is until you say "She's the tart who's all up in Danny's grill"... ok well when you say something along those lines at least.

 

[Top41]

The only promos I recall highlighting her were the one where she first was on the show (for "Zoo York"), "Love Run Cold" for the convo with Danny, and "Right Next Door" for the infamous Monologue of Doom. :lol: At this point I think she's less a character than a vehicle for this Danny/Lindsay romance that TPTB or the network thinks the fans want.

And to be fair, if you look over at some other boards and read the less than grammatically correct posts, there seem to be a lot of young (teen) viewers who love the D/L pairing. That's not all the fans--obviously we've got some adult and very grammatically correct posters here who like the pairing --but I do think it's not incorrect to say that the pairing attracts young fans and buzz (certainly the latter, given responses on spoiler sites like Ausiello and Kristin).

But if you really look at the whole thing, it's always been from Danny's point of view. Maybe that's why we struggle so much with being bothered by Lindsay's reactions--we don't really see into her character at all. We always know where Danny is coming from. With Lindsay, much less so.

I don't know if it's because of Belknap's acting or because Danny is so much more interesting, but she's really become almost a non-entity, other that to create problems/drama for Danny.

 

[Kimmychu]

Very good point on the noticeable lack of Lindsay in promos. It's rather funny and sad TPTB didn't even bother publicizing her return in season three. Gotta wonder if anyone would know the difference if they'd used a life-sized cupboard figure of her for a few episodes for her scenes.

Personally, I think it was a huge mistake for TPTB to push DL, and the show in general, towards the teenage crowd. The CSI shows have always attracted an older audience, and for good reason: being a CSI/police officer is a serious job that isn't to be taken lightly at all, and there's nothing remotely funny/cool/trendy about someone getting murdered. For TPTB to even try 'lightening things up', much less turn some of the characters into shallow parodies of teenagers having flaky relationship problems that no decent professional adult would ever be, is a risky, unwise decision at best. At worst, it undermines the show and its credibility and ultimately drives away the fans who truly count for something ... the smart, intelligent ones who won't take any condescending sh*t and know when they're being given subpar material, no matter what TPTB says.

You write smart, in-depth stories that show a lot of effort, you'll attract smart, in-depth people who appreciate that effort and will put the same effort into watching the show. You write dumb, shallow stories that glorify self-centeredness and hypocrisy, you'll attract dumb, shallow people who are self-centered and hypocritical. It's simple as that.

I just think it's an awful shame TPTB chose to attract the 'trendy, hip, cool' crowd over an intelligent fanbase regardless of age. They'd be very foolish to not realize it heavily reflects on them. Then again, maybe I just don't know anything and the CSI shows are only about money, ratings and popularity and not about quality, believable stories of CSIs, police officers and their jobs, eh?

(It's no surprise to me at all that people who are in those lines of work in real life criticize the shows all the time. Yesterday, I came across an interview with a veteran hostage negotiator in the NYPD who criticized crime shows, including the CSI ones, for their lack of believability and mistakes that end up creating a very false image of the jobs for viewers who don't know any better. Then there's David Simon of what is possibly the greatest show in TV history, HBO's The Wire, who also had less-than-good things to say about the CSI shows. TPTB, why waste so much time and effort trying to cater to the wrong crowds when you could be using that time and energy to improve the really important aspects of your shows?)

Going back to Lindsay ... think you guys might find this interesting: The word on my side of the world, especially in China and Japan, is that fans are reacting very badly to the news of Lindsay being pregnant and Danny becoming a father. I was told people have already made up their minds to not watch season five at all or dump the show completely simply because of it. Not good news, my friends.

 

[privatename]

I just think it's an awful shame TPTB chose to attract the 'trendy, hip, cool' crowd over an intelligent fanbase regardless of age. They'd be very foolish to not realize it heavily reflects on them. Then again, maybe I just don't know anything and the CSI shows are only about money, ratings and popularity and not about quality, believable stories of CSIs, police officers and their jobs, eh?

Unfortunately the bottom line for most shows is that they want to make as much money as possible and someone thinks that skewing this show younger will make the more money. I don't know who makes that decision, but I am sure the bottom line is the biggest consideration even over quality.

Going back to Lindsay ... think you guys might find this interesting: The word on my side of the world, especially in China and Japan, is that fans are reacting very badly to the news of Lindsay being pregnant and Danny becoming a father. I was told people have already made up their minds to not watch season five at all or dump the show completely simply because of it. Not good news, my friends.

That is interesting. I doubt it will affect most viewers one way or the other. I still enjoy the show and all the other characters and really don't like the idea of this upcoming Lindsay storyline especially because it was a last minute decision and I am really afraid that it will not be as well-thought out as it should be. That said, if I know an episode is particularly heavy on the baby drama or too much Lindsay character, I might just skip the episode or make sure it is one that I watch after I have recorded it so I can fast forward parts. Why waste my time on something that doesn't interest me in the least and moreover one that will probably make me roll my eyes more than once with what I am sure will be its torturous process.

 

[Raven04]

Lindsay needs to go, so we can acutally get storylines for greater characters like Sid, Adam, Hawkes...no more of TPTB pushing DL down our throats.

 

[Kimmychu]

privatename said:
Unfortunately the bottom line for most shows is that they want to make as much money as possible and someone thinks that skewing this show younger will make the more money. I don't know who makes that decision, but I am sure the bottom line is the biggest consideration even over quality.

Yep, unfortunately true, hence the eyerolling. :lol: I just find it very difficult to respect any creative endeavor or person who puts money above the story. As David Simon of HBO's The Wire said in an interview regarding the comparison of his experiences of working with subscription TV (HBO for The Wire) and broadcast (NBC for Homicide: Life on the Streets):

HBO's a lot smarter than NBC. They can afford to be. They don't care if you're watching every show on HBO. If you're a subscriber and you're only getting it for two shows out of 10, they've still got your $17.95. And therein lies all the difference.

That's a model that can't exist in network TV because of the need to present the maximum number of viewers to advertisers. That leads to decisions about story, character, and theme on network TV that are just destructive. They were destructive on Homicide. Compromises had to be made.

What writer wants to make compromises with story? Story is the only reason you're in it.

Please to be making note of that last line, TPTB. Hell, please to be making note of anything David Simon says about TV writing because there's a damn good reason he's considered the best TV writer around.

I doubt it will affect most viewers one way or the other.

Definitely not the Nielsen ratings since they're only involve US viewers, right? But it's still interesting to see reactions on a global scale ... and that they're negative. Seriously, when you have viewers in China, where people go nuts over epic soap operas, dumping the show over this, something has gone very wrong somewhere.

That said, if I know an episode is particularly heavy on the baby drama or too much Lindsay character, I might just skip the episode or make sure it is one that I watch after I have recorded it so I can fast forward parts. Why waste my time on something that doesn't interest me in the least and moreover one that will probably make me roll my eyes more than once with what I am sure will be its torturous process.

Dude, you are the kind of viewer that makes the knees of TPTB tremble. :lol:

 

[jolein]

Interesting point,I was just watching the extra`s on the season 4 dvd`s and there was an interview with Anna about the whole child play episode and everything what happens afterwards.
One thing that stood out for me was how she said that Lindsay finally was happy again and with Danny what she wanted all along and now everything was falling apart again.
I didn`t quote it litterly before people say that isn`t what she said but I thought that that part stood out.

 

[privatename]

[

Yep, unfortunately true, hence the eyerolling. :lol: I just find it very difficult to respect any creative endeavor or person who puts money above the story. As David Simon of HBO's The Wire said in an interview regarding the comparison of his experiences of working with subscription TV (HBO for The Wire) and broadcast (NBC for Homicide: Life on the Streets):

HBO's a lot smarter than NBC. They can afford to be. They don't care if you're watching every show on HBO. If you're a subscriber and you're only getting it for two shows out of 10, they've still got your $17.95. And therein lies all the difference.

That's a model that can't exist in network TV because of the need to present the maximum number of viewers to advertisers. That leads to decisions about story, character, and theme on network TV that are just destructive. They were destructive on Homicide. Compromises had to be made.

What writer wants to make compromises with story? Story is the only reason you're in it.

Please to be making note of that last line, TPTB. Hell, please to be making note of anything David Simon says about TV writing because there's a damn good reason he's considered the best TV writer around.

That is an interesting point about cable vs network. I had never looked at it that way.

Definitely not the Nielsen ratings since they're only involve US viewers, right? But it's still interesting to see reactions on a global scale ... and that they're negative. Seriously, when you have viewers in China, where people go nuts over epic soap operas, dumping the show over this, something has gone very wrong somewhere.

I agree that it is very interesting to hear reactions from places outside the U.S. I didn't know that epic soap operas are big in China, but you are right that it is telling that they are dumping the show over something like this.

Dude, you are the kind of viewer that makes the knees of TPTB tremble. :lol:

I highly doubt that TPTB care one way or the other about me since I am not one of the "younger" viewers they seem to be striving so hard to attract ! :lol: That's okay, even if "CSI:NY" wants to disregard my feelings, I still have "Criminal Minds" to watch on Wednesday night.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

Faylinn posted a link to an OK magazine article in the 100th episode thread. Here's a little gem from Ms. Belknap:

Anna, who wore maternity jeans to the party, told OK! it’s made things interesting on the set: “I forget when we cut that I’m still pregnant when I walk away! It’s very weird in my head because you’re thinking in pretend when you’re acting.”

I'll be nice and assume she was trying to be funny when she said this, but reading it just makes me go :wtf: and :guffaw:. And not in the good, "Oh she's so amusing," way. :shifty:

 

[cSiNyFrEaK30]

Faylinn posted a link to an OK magazine article in the 100th episode thread. Here's a little gem from Ms. Belknap:

Anna, who wore maternity jeans to the party, told OK! it’s made things interesting on the set: “I forget when we cut that I’m still pregnant when I walk away! It’s very weird in my head because you’re thinking in pretend when you’re acting.”

I'll be nice and assume she was trying to be funny when she said this, but reading it just makes me go :wtf: and :guffaw:. And not in the good, "Oh she's so amusing," way. :shifty:

.....

::headdesk::

You "think in pretend" when you are acting? :shifty:

Maybe thats her big problem. When she's trying to be Lindsay she's thinking the whole time its all pretend. Every other actor on the show can speak of their character as a real person and know how he/she would react and behave in certain situations-they've embodied their characters. Anna doesn't seem to have gone any further than "Lindsay's pretend and all I have to do is pretend to be her!"

 

[Faylinn]

I'd have a hard time forgetting that I'm 6 months pregnant.

I think a lot of the problem with Anna in interviews is that she doesn't come across as easily or as well as the others do. It's usually easy to tell when someone else is being funny or what kind of tone they were going for, but when I read interviews with Anna, it's almost like she doesn't come across as very intelligent - and I know she's not stupid. I think video interviews serve her better than print interviews.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

I'd have a hard time forgetting that I'm 6 months pregnant.

:thinks to self: "Jeezus I'm bloated today! It must be the Taco Bell I had for lunch." :baby kicks: "Ohhhh Yeahhhh! That's right, I'm having a baby!" :shifty:

I think a lot of the problem with Anna in interviews is that she doesn't come across as easily or as well as the others do. It's usually easy to tell when someone else is being funny or what kind of tone they were going for, but when I read interviews with Anna, it's almost like she doesn't come across as very intelligent - and I know she's not stupid. I think video interviews serve her better than print interviews.

Agreed completely. At least after reading her interviews you don't have to make the Evel Knevel leap to understand why her acting is so bad. :shifty: