Was Danny Responsible? *Child's Play Spoilers*

I haven't had time until today to read through this thread, but having read the title I was able to give the subject itself some thought and I speculated on what kind of responses and support for those responses I would find when I finally did read the thread.

Not surprisingly, I have found a number of well thought out answers, supporting "yes" "no" and my own personal point of view "somewhat on the fence". As with others, I'm on the fence because most of what Danny did made sense "in the moment" (even giving Rueben a little "fun" by letting him ride ahead, which would have been quite harmless at any other time) but some things (like not checking to make sure he got home, for example) were clearly mistakes.

What I find interesting about this thread and the responses, is that there really is no right or wrong answer. In a way, that is not dissimilar to most of the choices Danny faced in this episode. In a split second he had to decide what to do. Unfortunately, the decisions he made did nothing to prevent a tragic outcome. On the other hand, they did nothing to contribute to the tragic outcome either. Would different decisions have helped prevent the tragic outcome? That's where the debate comes in. Because the answer to that is "maybe".

The problem with decisions is that even when you have a chance to think out all the possible consequences, something you didn't even consider may result. Then of course, you don't always know which of the possible consequences may happen. Soemtimes in spite of careful consideration, consultation with others etc., etc. the decision still winds up going wrong. Making a split second decision is just that much more risky (but sometimes as in Danny's case, is unavoidable - he really didn't have much time to think).

But I'm sure that even those who strongly feel the answer is "no" will understand why he's going to blame himself, and will understand if Rikki blames him - not that we have any evidence that she will yet. In the episode of CSI:Vegas where Brass shot the officer, I thought the widow was going to slap him when they first approached each other - instead she hugged him to show that she did not blame him. It will be interesting to see what the writers have decided in this regard (assuming we ever see Rikki again).
 
Well, he should have told Ruben to WAIT for him around the corner. He should have dialed 911, checked the vics, and then went back to Ruben.

However, I would not say he was irresponsible. Rather, he misplaced his responsibilities and priorities.
 
^Having Ruben wait for him wouldn't have been a bad call; the next second, Danny saw the shooter running away, so presumably Ruben staying with Danny would have been the safest place for him to be. Assessing the situation first before acting would have been a wise move, but one of Danny's biggest failings is his impulsiveness.

I really don't think we can know either way if Ruben would have lived or died if Danny had been with him. There are so many variables, and unless Sid had turned and said to Danny, "There's nothing you could have done; he was dead the bullet hit him," there's no way for us or Danny to know whether that would have been the case. I suspect it wasn't--Ruben didn't die instantly, and it may have taken him quite a while to die after he passed out--but that's as much speculation as those who think Ruben dropped dead the moment he turned into the alley. We just don't know; the only thing we can say is that Ruben would have had more of a chance if Danny hadn't sent him off that he did.

As for Rikki not calling; she trusted Danny. She probably thought Danny spent the day with Ruben, taking him for lunch or ice cream or hell to Coney Island. The point is that Danny was someone Rikki trusted, period. Danny sent the kid home on his own, so Danny was the one with the obligation to call.
 
I'll ask a speculative question of those who have children and don't think Danny should have any degree of responsibility. If it was your child who was in the exact same situation (with a family friend who was an off duty CSI, etc.), would you think the friend fulfilled their obligation to you and your child and their decisions had absolutely no part in the situation's outcome?
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I think you're gonna know my answer. That friend wasn't the one who put the bullet in him so , NO, I wouldn't hold them responsible. If there had never been a gunshot, Danny wouldn't have sent him home and none of this would happened. I get the feeling that everybody thinks Danny didn't really give a sh*t about Ruben and that's not true.

Well, he should have told Ruben to WAIT for him around the corner. He should have dialed 911, checked the vics, and then went back to Ruben.
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I thought about that too but Ruben still could have taken off for home since he didn't stop when Danny told him to. I thought Danny did call 911. He was on his phone asking for an ambulance. I know it was for the guy in the bodega but he still called for an ambulance. I also agree that he should have checked the vics and then went after Ruben but it's questionable if he would have lived or not.

As for Rikki not calling; she trusted Danny. She probably thought Danny spent the day with Ruben, taking him for lunch or ice cream or hell to Coney Island. The point is that Danny was someone Rikki trusted, period. Danny sent the kid home on his own, so Danny was the one with the obligation to call.
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I agree that Danny should have called, I said it before but even if she trusted Danny with Ruben, I'm still surprised she didn't call when they were gone so long. Yes, he could have spent the day with him taking him wherever but you'd think he would have called Rikki and been like, "We're going to 'wherever'". But I would have called to check up if they hadn't come back in a couple hours.
 
I get the feeling that everybody thinks Danny didn't really give a sh*t about Ruben and that's not true.
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I guess I don't see how saying Danny made a bad call and was responsible for the outcome of his actions equates to "Danny didn't really give a sh*t about Ruben." It's obvious he cared a lot about Ruben, and what happened and my thinking he's partially responsible for the outcome doesn't negate that. Again, I think it comes down to some people are seeing things in black and white while others are seeing shades of grey.

ETA: I am not saying one view is better than the other or the "right" one. I'm just interpreting from where I see the difference of opinion coming.
 
^Agreed, completely. Do I think it was highly irresponsible of Danny to send Ruben home on his own? Yes, and I do think it makes him at least partly responsible for the boy's death.

But do I think Danny "didn't really give a sh*t about Ruben"? No, of course not. Danny obviously cared deeply about the boy--he wouldn't have bothered to get his ass up after two hours of sleep to take the kid to church if he didn't. Of course Danny cared about Ruben. But that doesn't change the fact that he made a bad call, a really bad call.

I'm not a parent, but I think if that had been my kid, I would have been upset with Danny for sending him home on his own even if he had come home alright. Rikki entrusted Ruben to Danny's care; that meant she expected Danny to return Ruben to her safe and sound.
 
I guess I don't see how saying Danny made a bad call and was responsible for the outcome of his actions equates to "Danny didn't really give a sh*t about Ruben." It's obvious he cared a lot about Ruben, and what happened and my thinking he's partially responsible for the outcome doesn't negate that.
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It IS obvious he cared a lot for Ruben, the point i think CSIMFan is making here is that to just say, 'he didn't do that right.' or 'he never should have done this' implies that he really didn't hold Ruben in enough regard to make the right choice, when I personally don't believe we have to be NEGLECTFUL of something to make a 50/50 decision and have it not work out well.
 
^I think that's putting words in other's mouths. ;) I don't think anyone has implied he didn't hold Ruben in high enough regard to make the right call. He was careless and impulsive (the latter is something we've seen Danny be before, and some would argue the former as well).
 
I think to just call him 'careless', which has been said, DEFINITELY suggests he didn't have much regard for Ruben or the choices at hand.

I've had plenty of situations not work out for me DESPITE the time and effort I put into making the right choice.
 
roximonoxide said:
I think to just call his decision 'careless' which has been said, DEFINITELY suggests he didn't have much regard for Ruben or the choices at hand.
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I think it suggests he didn't have his priorities straight in that moment. It's not to say he didn't care about Ruben, but that he made a call that didn't put Ruben first.

I've had plenty of situations not work out for me DESPITE the time and effort I put into making the right choice.
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I'm sure we all have, but the fact remains that Ruben would have stood a better chance of surviving if Danny had been with him--as he was supposed to be. Even if he hadn't survived, he wouldn't have died alone in an alley.
 
I think it suggests he didn't have his priorities straight in that moment. It's not to say he didn't care about Ruben, but that he made a call that didn't put Ruben first.
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Careless, in my eyes is literally that, making choices, doing things without care. Without concern, without regard for the outcome, and I certainly wouldn't apply it here. I just mean you CAN make a wrong turn without having been CAREless.
 
roximonoxide said:
I guess I don't see how saying Danny made a bad call and was responsible for the outcome of his actions equates to "Danny didn't really give a sh*t about Ruben." It's obvious he cared a lot about Ruben, and what happened and my thinking he's partially responsible for the outcome doesn't negate that.
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It IS obvious he cared a lot for Ruben, the point i think CSIMFan is making here is that to just say, 'he didn't do that right.' or 'he never should have done this' implies that he really didn't hold Ruben in enough regard to make the right choice, when I personally don't believe we have to be NEGLECTFUL of something to make a 50/50 decision and have it not work out well.
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I still don't see that critizing Danny's decision is saying anything about his feelings/regard for Ruben. He had good intentions and a lot of concern with his decision; no one is disputing that. Once again, intentions, caring, being human, and making a judgement call don't negate responsibility for the outcome of one's actions.

It's like the Minhas case in the sense that Danny made a judgement call and did what he thought best at the time. He meant no harm, but his choices had serious ramifications. He was held accountable for his part in the outcome even though it wasn't his bullet that killed Minhas or his intention to do anything other than try to clear his name.

ETA: As far as the word "careless," it has more than one meaning. One of which is "not giving careful attention. Not giving enough careful attention to the details of something." That has nothing to do with being careless in his feeling/regard for Ruben.
 
^I think that's putting words in other's mouths.
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It's ok ;) We've both been talking about this for days on IM.

I'm not a parent, but I think if that had been my kid, I would have been upset with Danny for sending him home on his own even if he had come home alright. Rikki entrusted Ruben to Danny's care; that meant she expected Danny to return Ruben to her safe and sound.
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I am a parent and I can see why Danny sent him home...to get him away from the danger BUT he should have called it in and then went after Ruben and he didn't. That still doesn't mean he could have saved him. It would have been nice if Sid would have said how long it took for Ruben to die but he didn't but that's after the fact. Ruben took off, Danny told him to wait and he kept going and then he got shot. Kids don't always listen. Should Danny have just put him on a leash so he didn't run off? Of course Rikki expected Danny to return Ruben to her safe but then again, ACCIDENTS HAPPEN.

ETA because I'm slow :p

I still don't see that critizing Danny's decision is saying anything about his feelings/regard for Ruben. He had good intentions and a lot of concern with his decision; no one is disputing that. Once again, intentions, caring, being human, and making a judgement call don't negate responsibility for the outcome of one's actions.
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But Danny didn't pull the trigger. If that girl hadn't shot that gun, Ruben wouldn't have gotten shot. Ruben took off when Danny told him to stop or wait or whatever he said, Ruben went on around the corner and Danny ran after him. Ruben shouldn't have taken off. Kids do stuff ALL the time that they're told not to. So, Ruben not listening is not Danny's fault. His decision not to follow up with Ruben was bad judgment but still, could he have saved Ruben?
 
^ETA: You're more forgiving than I would be. Danny should have gone after Ruben, period, in my book. Accidents happen, but they often happen when someone is being careless, and ultimately by not putting his responsibility to watch out for Ruben first, the worst kind of accident happened.

PerfectAnomaly said:
I still don't see that critizing Danny's decision is saying anything about his feelings/regard for Ruben. He had good intentions and a lot of concern with his decision; no one is disputing that. Once again, intentions, caring, being human, and making a judgement call don't negate responsibility for the outcome of one's actions.

It's like the Minhas case in the sense that Danny made a judgement call and did what he thought best at the time. He meant no harm, but his choices had serious ramifications. He was held accountable for his part in the outcome even though it wasn't his bullet that killed Minhas or his intention to do anything other than try to clear his name.
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Exactly--that's a good comparison, though that's a case where I can sympathize a bit more with his decision. He chased a suspect into the subway, he yelled for people to get down, he was being shot at--it was chaos. Though it was probably reckless to have a shootout in a subway station, he didn't really have a lot of other options. He was being fired at.

But again, where Danny got himself into real trouble was when he acted impulsively--going to IAB against Mac's orders. Danny needs to stop letting his emotions and compulsions lead him...that's been a problem of his since season one. The first thing you think of isn't always the right thing to do, and sometimes--or a lot of the times in Danny's case--your gut is wrong. Danny needs to think things out more, and his lack of doing so in this case had serious ramifications.
 
Criticizing the decision isn't what I meant to call upon there, sorry, that was my mistake for not editing well enough there.

But some people, I'm not saying YOU in particular, some people have definitely come across as saying Danny was apathetic to the choice and THAT was wrong, when I hardly think thats the case.

While it might not have ended up being the best choice, I hardly think he took it lightly, is the only thing I think CSIMfan was trying to say.

ETA: As far as the word "careless," it has more than one meaning. One of which is "not giving careful attention. Not giving enough careful attention to the details of something." That has nothing to do with being careless in his feeling/regard for Ruben.
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ETA:
yep, it does have that meaning too. It also can mean a sense of apathy. "done or said heedlessly or negligently; unconsidered" which is why I'm saying when you apply careless to his DECISION it means one thing, but when applied to DANNY HIMSELF it can mean another altogether.
 
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