If Ruben's mother had been with him under the same circumstances (for sake of arguement I'll say she was an off duty cop and the scene went down exactly as it did with Danny), I'd still say she's partly responsible. No, she didn't shoot him and no she didn't intentionally let him get out of her sight, but she didn't keep him with her or keep up with him either and his well being was her responsibility. I don't think 10 is old enough to be riding a bike back to an appartment building alone, especially in this day and age in a big city. I see stories on the news all the time about young children who are hurt, abducted or killed because they were in a situation where supervision wasn't adequate. In those types of situations I always think, "where were the adults??" Of course, not all accidents or bad things can be prevented just by sticking close to an adult. One questionable decision or momentary lapse in judgement is only human, but it can have devastating consequences; and regardless of good intentions makes a person in some way responsible for the outcome. In cases where there wasn't intentional negligence/criminal behavior, the guilt, regret and blame are more punishment than what many criminals will face.
I don't think it was Danny's fault either, if he would have seen that Ruben was shot no matter how many other people there were injured or dead he would have helped Ruben first.
Exactly. I don't blame Danny for Ruben getting shot--the kid raced ahead of him, and anyone--even a parent--could be in that situation. Danny rightly chased after him and tried to catch up. Where he went wrong was in telling the kid to go home on his own. Say Ruben hadn't been shot--like PA says, there are a number of other ways a kid could get into danger a few blocks away from home. Danny knew--from Ruben's own comment!--that Rikki didn't let him ride his bike alone. It was irresponsible of Danny to send him home on his own. As for Ruben not knowing he'd been shot--I think if Danny had been with him, he would have figured it out pretty quickly. Ruben acting woozy or hell, Danny would have seen the blood--and maybe he could have done something.
I still think that if it had been his mother with him that nobody would be pointing a finger at her and saying it was her fault but yet that's what is happening to Danny. What if he was Ruben's dad? Would he still be blamed? It's hard to say what any of us would do in that situation and it's always easy to say 'should have this' or 'should have that' after the fact. Danny thought he was doing what was best for Ruben by sending him home. He was trying to protect him for more gunshots. It's not like he had hours to think about it. He acted on having to make a split second decision. Ruben had already been shot. The damage had already been done. What it all boils down to is that somebody shot a gun somewhere they shouldn't have and an innocent child got hit. Anybody could have been hit and Danny shouldn't have to shoulder that blame.
Again, if the situation was exactly the same, yes. But "blame" isn't black and white. I keep getting the feeling that people think someone saying Danny acting irresponsible and making a bad judgement call is the only reason Ruben is dead and 100% of the "blame" is Danny's. That's not it at all. Exactly, I could've very easily made the same decision in the same circumstances. Danny's human just like everyone else. But humans make mistakes and sometimes those mistakes have dire consequences. Again, it doesn't make them a horrible person, but in the end everyone is responsible for their actions and the outcome of those actions. I don't think anyone is saying Danny should shoulder the blame for someone else firing a gun into a crowded city street. Again, this isn't an "all or nothing" situation for a lot of people.
I dont think Danny should hold blame for the fact that Rueben got shot...ten year old boys rarely listen to adults, as I can say from expirience with my youngest brother. Rueben did race ahead of Danny and if he was closer to him when he got shot, I think Danny would have noticed and taken care of him. But, as I said before, ten year olds rarely listen, and when Danny told Rueben to slow down or wait up, he didn't immeadiately. Rueben was still in Danny's eyesight, and enough so that he could see anything that might cause him harm--but I'm sure he never expected a bullet. Whether it had been Danny or Rikki, i wouldn't blame either one for Rueben getting shot. Where it changes is when Danny sends Rueben home. It is obvious that he didn't know Rueben was hurt, and his decision to send him home wouldn't have been the same had he known. He believed he was doing the right thing in sending him home, and he can't be blamed for that. If it had been Rikki, the situation would have been completely different. Rikki isn't a cop, and wouldn't have seen it as her responsibility to respond to a crime scene or a gunshot. The first thing on her mind would have been finding Rueben and getting to him, not simply sending him home. So I dont think we can really compare whether or not we would blame Rikki and Danny the same in Rueben being shot. But the fact is, if Rikki had been there instead of Danny, I think not a minute would have gone by before she checked on her son, whether or not she had sent him home by himself, or run to him when she heard the shot. Danny didn't do this. Instead he went with his first instinct as a cop, and secured the scene. After, he never checked on Rueben to make sure he got home safe. Would it have made a difference if he had? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe the bullet had already done too much damage, and Rueben would have died either way. Maybe Danny could have gotten him to a hospital and saved his life. Nobody knows...and the what if's of that situation are really what are going to torture Danny. As for Rikki blaming Danny for Rueben's death, I have no doubt that she will. The person she entrusted her son's safety with, in her eyes, failed her and Rueben, and it left Rueben dead. Yes, it was the woman in the bodega that pulled the trigger, but Danny was the one that Rikki sent her son off with. If it had been my son, or my youngest brother, i don't have any doubt that i would blame Danny, or whoever it was that i had trusted to keep him safe. It wouldn't matter to me that i know my brother probably wasn't listening, or that it was a series of unforseeable events that Danny couldn't have seen coming. All that would matter was that my brother was dead, and i think Rikki has the same feelings about Danny. Maybe deep down she knows that the shooting wasn't something Danny could have prevented, but she will still blame him, at least on some level, because he was the person she trusted to keep her son safe, and in her eyes, he didn't do so.
I'm pretty sure the poll question reads "Do you hold Danny responsible for Ruben's death?" If that's not blame, then I've been terribly mislead since the day I learned the word. If the question was, "do you think sending Ruben home alone was the best decision?" then I might be backing this differently, but it's not.
This is said right above the poll. It's clarification of the question. I'm positive that means you can find him to be partly responsible without putting 100% of the blame on his shoulders.
this was Mb's response I was agree too. This was my response. In no way did I say Danny was responsible for Ruben being shot, I was agreeing with the part of getting him home safely. If my whole post had of been posted,including MB's part, you would have seen it was for getting him home. For I never said he was responsible for him being shot. But I can't change my opinion about him getting him home safely Sorry if you misunderstood This is why I try and avoid these debates, which I will from now on, it just seemed like a great discussion to be involved with.
Even if someone thinks his sending Ruben home alone was TOTALLY irresponsible, that didn't kill the boy, so I find it a pretty far stretch to think that Danny's judgment call, right or wrong, puts the blame, in any percentile, upon him.
I was simply pointing out that the poll wasn't just a yes/no, all or nothing question as you stated, but that there was opportunity and encouragement to discuss shades of grey. But in response to what you said, I'll offer this. Ruben wasn't killed instantly. If Danny had stayed with Ruben, he would've seen the boy was shot, called for help and the outcome may have been different. Even if Ruben couldn't have been saved, there would have been an attempt and he wouldn't have had to die alone in an alley.
I'm aware that the poll asked for discussion and in that discussion I'm suggesting that Danny's choice, right or wrong, didn't kill him, and that to go from judging the rectitude of Danny's choice to suggesting it AIDED in Ruben's death is a really big, and rather unfounded leap to me. You're right, Ruben wasn't killed instantly, we got to see him on his feet, or rather his bike, for about 25 seconds before he collapsed. I'd love to have seen Danny diagnose and fix him in that time span.
^Danny could have called 911. My guess is that Ruben bled out in that alley, and someone being with him and recognizing he'd been shot would have made all the difference. As PA pointed out, though the question in the poll was meant to be elaborated on. It's just a jumping off point for discussion--and I think this has been a very interesting one! And had Ruben's mother been with him, there's no way in hell she would have sent her son home on his own. Regardless, I think when you take charge of someone else's child you have an extra responsibility to make sure that child is safe. Danny was careless with that responsibility.