The Nick Stokes Timeline: Part 2

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If I may throw my two cents in. I don't have a degree in psychology, but I do believe that denial is a symptom of Post Truamtic Stress Disorder. Given his ordeal he would have PTSD. He doesn't quite know why he is acting the way he is. He needed to understand why he was put through this, and hoping Kelly Gordon might have some answers he turned to her. At the last second he became too emotional and couldn't do it. I was upset that there wan no more interaction with the rest of the group after he was rescued.
 
I'm wondering if Nick's occasional turn to "the dark side"(like in ABRTI) was in any way prefaced by what his psyche brought up during his hallucination; that is to say, I was thinking that it was interesting to see a cheerful coroner or two, and his father calmly looking at the remains of his son, and smiling even, waiting to hear what caused his death.

The whole thing led me in one direction, albeit in a two-fold sort of way. First since Nick's imagining himself as dead, it seems natural that the familiar faces of the coroners would appear. But their light-hearted and even jovial treatment of Nick's body seems to indicate that his body just isn't something they take that seriously. And so I sort of extrapolated that maybe he doesn't always feel like everyone at work takes him seriously- the "bastard stepchild" we always hear him referred to, thanks to Q.T.

Secondly, his father is also quite jovial and seemingly fine with his son's death, and even comments that he'll look good for the funeral and his mother will appreciate that, as if that's all that's important. This combined with the doctor handing him the heart and saying "Your son had a good heart" and them both nodding and smiling seems to play on that worthiness again, but this time not just by the people he works with, but also from his father now. So maybe Nick feels like he's only thought of in terms of his empathy and being a "good guy" but not much else. As though this is/was his only real value in life. Maybe he felt like he not only possibly disappointed Grissom, his pseudo-father, but his real father as well, for whatever reason. Maybe because Nick took the criminalist job, and not the "doling out of justice" type job- i.e. cop/lawyer, Nick's father thought he was "soft". And being a judge from Texas, he was probably a reasonably hard man. Maybe Nick felt like he let him down because of that.

Obviously it's hard to guess more than that without knowing a little more about Nick's upbringing and his actual relationship with his parents, but that's sort of what I took away from that scene, on top of just the general Tarentino freakiness. :)
 
^I can imagine coming to Vegas from Texas was a culture shock for Nick. His father probably is a stereo-typical, hard-nosed, Texan judge.

And the way the coroners treated his body, it symbolized to Nick that everyone thought of him as a big joke in the lab. A pretty boy with no brain.

It was a disturbing scene, but QT tends to use violence as a symbolic gesture. Like in the movie 'Pulp Fiction' when John Travolta's character turned in his seat and accidentally shot the guy in the head and the audience cracked up laughing. It was Q's way of saying that we are so densensitized to violence that we even laugh at it sometimes.

So the autopsy scene as gory as it was QT's depiction of how not only the Lab people treat Nick, but how QT thought a lot of the audience felt about Nick with exception of us fans of GE. It was brilliant. BUT QT is brilliant.
Just MHO anyway. When I heard that QT was going to direct a CSI episode, I was so excited because I knew it was going to be a good one. But I didn't even expect it to be THAT good. So good that it had my on the edge of my seat the whole time.
 
Baba-you thought of a few things that I didn't. As I begin to go back and replay the autopsy scene....I can see where you are coming from. I mean I wouldn't see Nick as weak for being a CSI. It seems like what you do for a living is how/who you are in father Stokes eyes.

I think every one has a dark side, and certain events or encouters can bring it out.
 
Baba,

I think you are right that the dream/hallucination refelcts how Nick view's himself and how he thinks other's view him. My point was that I don't know how reliable that view point is.. and again, I point to David and Robbins. In the dream they tend to take Nick's death as a joke - but we know form David's scene at the begining that David was truely upset about what happened. Moreover, we known both characters well enough to know they would never take anyone's death as a joke. To me, the fact that David and Doc Robbin's are "out of character" makes me doubt that Nick's father would be so jovial at his death.

Most of the dream I think steams from Nick's self esteam issues and boy does he have a lot of them. He has gotten better over the years, but he struggles with them. On some level he still might think of himself as just "a pretty boy," and a nice guy.

This might be one way he views how others view him...Tender-hearted Nicky. He's a nice guy, but not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer. You have to look out for him so he doesn't make a mess of things.


We know that Nick was wrong about Grissom being disappointed with him. So why can't the same be true for Papa Stokes. One way to look at is the Judge is one of those old fashion types. Not just that he has strong ideas about what is and is not "man's work" but that he - like Grissom - does not where is emotions on his sleeve. And just like with Grissom, Nick interputs his father's silence with disapporval.

There are just so many ways you can go with that scene.
 
Baba,

I think you are right that the dream/hallucination refelcts how Nick view's himself and how he thinks other's view him. My point was that I don't know how reliable that view point is.. and again, I point to David and Robbins. In the dream they tend to take Nick's death as a joke - but we know form David's scene at the begining that David was truely upset about what happened. Moreover, we known both characters well enough to know they would never take anyone's death as a joke. To me, the fact that David and Doc Robbin's are "out of character" makes me doubt that Nick's father would be so jovial at his death.
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Oh, I totally agree. They would never be that way- which is why it's showing Nick's insecurities about himself. He's sort of taking the idea and blowing it way out of proportion in his mind. Which is, again, the nature of hallucination, really. It's not showing how things are, but how a person is worried they could be, even if the images the mind produces are still way beyond reality. I just sort of looked at the whole thing as Nick's suped up version of his insecurities, done in the amusing Quentin Tarentino style. :) It's brilliant, really. Just another reason to love QT. :D
 
Sorry if this has already been discussed, but here goes. One of my favorite parts was the relationship between Nick and Warrick. I love that QT played up how close the two of them are. We saw that closeness a lot in the earlier eps, like "Anonymous" and "High and Low." They have a sibling rivalry going on, and it was great that QT had them be so emotional and show how much they care about each other. The scene where Nick reaches for Warrick's hand still gets me choked up to this day.
 
RE:Baba's point

Sorry I think my point was a little off there, I think I should of put it's how Nick thinks people think of him. But then again it was a hallucination and our brains can play pretty mean tricks on us when we are under duress. So you guys are right, it's QT's version of what Nick think other people think of him.

Which is obviously wrong because Ecklie put the entire lab on it as he would probably do if any of them were kidnapped, but Nick was out of it and his subconcious kicked in and started playing cruel tricks on him based on past events that were buried within.

Dreams are pretty funny things at times. Poor Nicky. I think when he was uncovered and sobbing, almost every female viewer that night wanted to give him a big hug. I know I did, my Aunt did when she came back to see the end, my daughter's daycare teacher did. Im sure a lot of gay men did too-but we won't go there.
 
^^^ We can go there. ;) Gay men have the same right to drool as the rest of us! :lol: And who can blame them- sexy, emotional performances bring it out in us all.

And I agree- I think Tarentino offset Nick's obvious insecurities with a full-fledged effort from everyone in the lab, including the old arch nemesis, Ecklie. It was a nice counterbalance.
 
Anybody know where there are video clips of this episode...I got to see at least a little bit of something. From what I read, I'm really missing out here. :(
 
And who can blame them- sexy, emotional performances bring it out in us all.
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I agree! This was George's time to shine. When you can pull someone right into the scene and make them feel what the character is feeling, then you have done your job as a actor as well as a director. Grave Danger was awsome!
 
I agree! This was George's time to shine. When you can pull someone right into the scene and make them feel what the character is feeling, then you have done your job as a actor as well as a director. Grave Danger was awsome!
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I got to thinking about why Nick gets more than his share of peril -- why the writers keep putting him in the line of fire more than the other CSI characters.

Having read some old interviews with George, I'm thinking that has to do with George himself. George has talked about times that he stood his ground against the writers fighting for his view of Nick's character and reactions.

The first evidence of this was in "Who are You" with the gun in the face scene. George showed TPTB his way of playing it (with tears) and showed them how beautifully he could carry it off. The writers recognized they had a real treasure in George and I think they've continued to give these stories to George's character because he can add so much to their script in his interpretation.

Who knows what we would have gotten if one of the other characters had been chosen to be the victim in Grave Danger ... perhaps we would have been introduced to some character depths we haven't had the chance to see in one of them. I'm sure glad it was given to George/Nick. It was an astounding episode -- the one that really grabbed my fandom of Nick above and apart from all the others.

Can't take my eyes off him now. In season six, I only see the character of Nick getting even more intricate. I'm sure it's because George is making sure Nick's horrific experience in Grave Danger is tinging all his actions on the cases since. George's work is certainly keeping this and several other CSI forums active.

Grave Danger was a tour de force and it's a crying shame he hasn't been recognized with an Emmy or Golden Globe nomination.
 
^^^ I hope you're right, and I hope George continues to get to add valuable and useable insight into his characters development and portrayal. :)

Here's a couple other things I noticed in G.D. The first one's not really about Nick, but I'm going to sneak it in anyway. I don't understand why Warrick's girfriend (at that time) Tina would be upset that her boyfriend, who does work for the LVPD afterall, carries a gun, and yet she has no problems going to watch the Ultimate Fighting Championship at the Spur. Have you ever watched those fights? They are CRAZY brutal! :eek:

Anyway, my other thought was, when Nick is saying his "goodbyes" on the mini-cassette recorder, why is it that he says goodbye to his parents, but neglects to mention any of his 6 siblings? I mean, surely they deserved an honourable mention? I guess it was probably just an oversight, but it still seems a bit odd to me.
 
Can't take my eyes off him now. In season six, I only see the character of Nick getting even more intricate. I'm sure it's because George is making sure Nick's horrific experience in Grave Danger is tinging all his actions on the cases since. George's work is certainly keeping this and several other CSI forums active.
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Yes!! George has taken Nick Stokes and evolved him. Grave Danger was the defining moment for Nick Stokes that had been long over due. I'm glad George pushed through with his insistance for quality in the Nick Stokes character. He pushed the envelope and gave one hell of a performance!

Hey Baba....you mention a good question. I found it strange that he didn't mention his siblings. At the same time, why not mention each of his friends instead of saying "you guys"? Then again...time content of scene..keeping things rolling probably played a part in it not being mentioned.

Still makes me wonder...is there anything else on that tape?
 
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