The Great Ship Debate - CSI:Crime Scene Investigation

[GregNickRyanFan]

I wouldn't mind maybe them doing a storyline where the vic is an old girlfriend of Greg's that he hasn't seen in years and then them doing flashbacks of the two of them together while Greg is thinking about her after learning she's dead. I'm not necessarily talking about bedroom scenes. But, maybe like a scene of them walking hand and hand somewhere. Or just maybe kissing. We've never gotten to see him kiss anyone in 9 seasons. Everyone else has gotten to (excluding the newbies and the MEs and Ecklie). Didn't Brass kiss that woman in "Hollywood Brass"? If not then he's another who hasn't gotten to. Even Hodges has gotten to (though it was brief and in a fantasy). Then after Greg was through reflecting on the past, he'd say to himself that he would solve her murder and that he'd work overtime until he got it solved if he had to. But then of course he'd realize he couldnt' work it cause of the conflict of interest thing. :lol:

 

[jafox]

Plus, leaving characters without canon love interests makes shipping equal opportunity. People can see characters in the relationships they want rather than ones being forced down their throats on the show.

Boy, I completely disagree with this statement. I don't want the writers to cater to the likes or dislikes of the internet fans and their 'ships'. If you try to please everyone, then you please no one. How uninteresting shows would be if they didn't commit and take some risks. I think the storytelling and any character development would definitely suffer. The best shows on tv have complex characters and complex relationships. I don't like every character and every relationship on tv shows I watch, just like I don't like everyone I meet in real life; but to each his own. If a show has two characters and two actors who enjoy working together and are willing to see a relationship through till their respective roles end, then I admire their dedication.
I'll agree with you that CSI doesn't handle the relationship stuff very well at times because they want to think they are all about being a 'procedural'. But what do we end up talking about mostly on the fan boards: the characters and their relationships. But to be fair to the writers, it's not always about how a relationship has been written that is the problem, it's often about how some fans have reacted (or overreacted) on both sides, that is. That's not something the writers of the show can control.

 

[Fighter]

Personally, I can see Nick with Greg. Then again, I can pretty much see anyone with Greg, as it is entirely unfathomable to me how anyone could not be attracted to him Nick, Sara, Riley and Wendy, IMO, have had the best chemistry with him so far, so I see them all as potential Greg love interests and can see NG, Sandle, Hair Pullers and Simmers all as potential ships.

I definitely agree about Catherine though. I think she has good chemistry with just about everyone on the show except Nick. I can see her with Warrick, Grissom, Sara, Brass, Greg or Wendy, but not Nick.

I'm The Love shipper so naturally my favourite ship is Nick and Greg, but I also can see Greg with almost everyone (actually, I kinda like the idea of him being with Catherine:lol. The strange thing is, I can't see Nick with anyone except Greg. Don't know why, I should probably be able to see them both in different relationships

I haven't noticed anything between Nick and Riley or Mandy but I guess the only ship I wouldn't accept would be him and Cath. IMO, it would be kinda unrealistic if they got together after nine years of pratically no flirt scenes (I guess there were some in the 1 season but they've been completely forgotten since then). I know that people discover their feelings even after longer time but I hope that with Cath and Nick TPTB won't go this way.

Yo!Bling is definitely my favorite Cath ship, hands down. If they could do the show over again, the thing I wish they would do differently is develop Warrick's character more and make Cath/Warrick the big canon ship of CSI. They made such an intriguing couple from the start of the series. Warrick was the complex almost-bad-boy maverick (pre-McCain/Palin-usage) and Cath was this amazingly strong but still complex woman (which, of course, she still is)... there was something about the idea of them -- two dynamic and intriguing characters with dark sides -- together that was just so interesting... and hot. Man, I wish Warrick wasn't dead

Yo!Bling... Oh, how I miss thee... I get that Cath and Warrick couldn't have got together at the beginning of the 6 season because GSR became canon and I guess TPTB decided it would be too many ships but still, I wish they continued flirting and finally ended up in a relationship. They had so much chemistry that IMO it's really a waste we got that little I really felt for Cath when she learnt about Warrick's marriage and then the next person I thought she was interested in (Keppler) got killed and then when Warrick was free again he's also dead :/ Cath definitely needs some loving, maybe TPTB plan to pair her with Langston? While I don't like the amount of screentime LF gets, I think I could see him with Cath.

That being said, I agree with happyharper13: I don't really want to see any relationships for a while. I'm afraid it would take the attention from the show and those characters who wouldn't be romantically involved. I know they may make Hodges and Wendy an item (not that I'm very happy because I love Wendy and have quite mixed feelings about Hodges) but as they are not the main cast I think it could work. I'm just afraid that if TPTB decide to put two CSIs together, they would feel like they need to concentrate on it and everything will start revolving around just two people. Also, my biggest beef with canon ships is that characters may be dancing around each other for a long time, but when they finally get together TPTB feel like they need to create some problems for the now established couple.

Plus, leaving characters without canon love interests makes shipping equal opportunity. People can see characters in the relationships they want rather than ones being forced down their throats on the show.

Boy, I completely disagree with this statement. I don't want the writers to cater to the likes or dislikes of the internet fans and their 'ships'. If you try to please everyone, then you please no one. How uninteresting shows would be if they didn't commit and take some risks. I think the storytelling and any character development would definitely suffer. The best shows on tv have complex characters and complex relationships. I don't like every character and every relationship on tv shows I watch, just like I don't like everyone I meet in real life; but to each his own. If a show has two characters and two actors who enjoy working together and are willing to see a relationship through till their respective roles end, then I admire their dedication.
I'll agree with you that CSI doesn't handle the relationship stuff very well at times because they try to pretend they are all about being a 'procedural'. But what do we end up talking about mostly on the fan boards: the characters and their relationships.

Well, I can see where happyharper13 is coming from. Yes, we do talk about ships but IMO they may be (at least for the time being) left to our imagination. I do not want to see TPTB's decision ruled by the fans but I also don't want to see my favourite show ruined by some forced relationship or unreasonable plot twist. As I said above, I'm afraid that if a ship is not well written, the whole show (and not just the people who were against this particular ship) will suffer. I see nothing wrong in not pairing the main CSis so that fans could be happy. They can always go for someone outside the main cast (like it seems they're doing with H and W) if they want to have a ship in the show.

I like complex characters but IMO relationships are not the only way to develop them. TPTB've already shown they have problems with handling relationships, plus (I know I'm digressing here) they have really serious problems with the equal division of the screentime between the main cast and, with the introduction of Ray, they seemed to forget all the rules concerning Level 1 CSI, conflict of interests etc. IMO they should listen to the fans in this case. I'd rather they addressed these issues first than involved themselves in a ship that may not work out well.

 

[myfuturecsi]

The strange thing is, I can't see Nick with anyone except Greg. Don't know why, I should probably be able to see them both in different relationships

You see I see the complete opposite.

Nick has always had a flirtatious manner with Catherine, Mandy and Sara. Remember in Rashomona when she was holding some up lingerie and she said, "I need your hands." and Nick said, "I thought you'd never ask." Then Catherine made a remark about being being careful and Nick said, "Cover your ass?" and she said, "Yeah." and he said, "Loved too." He's always been very flirty with the ladies. Mandy and he have the cutest of flirty scenes starting with Mandy Dandy in Burked and then onto "Oh Mandy" in Happenstance.

However, with Greg, he's much more of a brother to him. Much more of leader. I've never seen anything that indicates there's a romantic stuff between them. If anything Nick finds Greg very annoying at times.

Greg and Riley have flirted a few times together and Greg had a huge crush on Sara for eons. We kind of got that inkling in Fannysmackin' when he told Sara he'd know her 'scent anywhere.' That's indicative of a crush. He hit on her plain and clear in the very first season.

But everyone sees what they want to see, even I. And I certainly hope I don't get flamed for this. After all, the writers' in the end will do what they want to do with the show, it doens't matter how we feel or who we hope the characters wind up with. TPTB will do what they want and how they see fit with the show.

And someone can point out the whole argument about subtext, but subtext is subjective. It's not a science. I never saw any subtext with GSR because it was a well known fact Grissom was going to wind up with Sara, it was a question of when it would happen. It happened to take too long for it be canon, but it was there. The arc was very cleary. TPTB simply teased the audience for eons about where things stood with Sara and Grissom.

As for Nick and Greg, there have never been any clear cut signs saying there was more to their friendship than it was. Nick's a bit more obvious with his emotions, so I think it would have been much clearer if there was a romantic relationship because of how Nick is with his emotions. He's an open window.

I know there was some talk of him being 'jealou' in Leave Out All The Rest' when he snapped at Riley and Greg, but they were pushing the professional boundary with their sex talk and he told them to back off for each other's own protection, there was no jealousy there at all.

 

[Jessica_Lynne]

The strange thing is, I can't see Nick with anyone except Greg. Don't know why, I should probably be able to see them both in different relationships

You see I see the complete opposite.

Nick has always had a flirtatious manner with Catherine, Mandy and Sara. Remember in Rashomona when she was holding some up lingerie and she said, "I need your hands." and Nick said, "I thought you'd never ask." Then Catherine made a remark about being being careful and Nick said, "Cover your ass?" and she said, "Yeah." and he said, "Loved too." He's always been very flirty with the ladies. Mandy and he have the cutest of flirty scenes starting with Mandy Dandy in Burked and then onto "Oh Mandy" in Happenstance.

However, with Greg, he's much more of a brother to him. Much more of leader. I've never seen anything that indicates there's a romantic stuff between them. If anything Nick finds Greg very annoying at times.

Greg and Riley have flirted a few times together and Greg had a huge crush on Sara for eons. We kind of got that inkling in Fannysmackin' when he told Sara he'd know her 'scent anywhere.' That's indicative of a crush. He hit on her plain and clear in the very first season.

But everyone sees what they want to see, even I. And I certainly hope I don't get flamed for this. After all, the writers' in the end will do what they want to do with the show, it doens't matter how we feel or who we hope the characters wind up with. TPTB will do what they want and how they see fit with the show.

And someone can point out the whole argument about subtext, but subtext is subjective. It's not a science. I never saw any subtext with GSR because it was a well known fact Grissom was going to wind up with Sara, it was a question of when it would happen. It happened to take too long for it be canon, but it was there. The arc was very cleary. TPTB simply teased the audience for eons about where things stood with Sara and Grissom.

As for Nick and Greg, there have never been any clear cut signs saying there was more to their friendship than it was. Nick's a bit more obvious with his emotions, so I think it would have been much clearer if there was a romantic relationship because of how Nick is with his emotions. He's an open window.

I know there was some talk of him being 'jealou' in Leave Out All The Rest' when he snapped at Riley and Greg, but they were pushing the professional boundary with their sex talk and he told them to back off for each other's own protection, there was no jealousy there at all.

I...think I love you.
That's everything I was thinking, but my attention span would prevent me from typing it all out in one setting. :guffaw:
But kudos to you for it
Yeah, I see Nick and Greg as like funhearted brothers.
Like Nick being the older jock brother and Greg being the younger geeky brother. I can see them joking around and Nick giving Greg a noogie...or wedgie, whichever you'd prefer to see
I do like Riley and Greg together...although I can see her giving Greggo a noogie as well :lol:
As for Mandy and Nick...well shoot, that's just plain cute right there

 

[NickyFan]

The strange thing is, I can't see Nick with anyone except Greg. Don't know why, I should probably be able to see them both in different relationships

You see I see the complete opposite.

Nick has always had a flirtatious manner with Catherine, Mandy and Sara. Remember in Rashomona when she was holding some up lingerie and she said, "I need your hands." and Nick said, "I thought you'd never ask." Then Catherine made a remark about being being careful and Nick said, "Cover your ass?" and she said, "Yeah." and he said, "Loved too." He's always been very flirty with the ladies. Mandy and he have the cutest of flirty scenes starting with Mandy Dandy in Burked and then onto "Oh Mandy" in Happenstance.

However, with Greg, he's much more of a brother to him. Much more of leader. I've never seen anything that indicates there's a romantic stuff between them. If anything Nick finds Greg very annoying at times.

Greg and Riley have flirted a few times together and Greg had a huge crush on Sara for eons. We kind of got that inkling in Fannysmackin' when he told Sara he'd know her 'scent anywhere.' That's indicative of a crush. He hit on her plain and clear in the very first season.

But everyone sees what they want to see, even I. And I certainly hope I don't get flamed for this. After all, the writers' in the end will do what they want to do with the show, it doens't matter how we feel or who we hope the characters wind up with. TPTB will do what they want and how they see fit with the show.

And someone can point out the whole argument about subtext, but subtext is subjective. It's not a science. I never saw any subtext with GSR because it was a well known fact Grissom was going to wind up with Sara, it was a question of when it would happen. It happened to take too long for it be canon, but it was there. The arc was very cleary. TPTB simply teased the audience for eons about where things stood with Sara and Grissom.

As for Nick and Greg, there have never been any clear cut signs saying there was more to their friendship than it was. Nick's a bit more obvious with his emotions, so I think it would have been much clearer if there was a romantic relationship because of how Nick is with his emotions. He's an open window.

I know there was some talk of him being 'jealou' in Leave Out All The Rest' when he snapped at Riley and Greg, but they were pushing the professional boundary with their sex talk and he told them to back off for each other's own protection, there was no jealousy there at all.

Amen to that There is not much more to say about that Man thank god somebody has the right words for that... I myself wouldn't be able to find the right ones...

I can only repeat that Nick can only be together with Mandy Cath and Nick, I really don't think so... they both like to flirt with each other but I guess there'll be nothing more then a close friendship between them.
Riley and Nick... never... therefore is Riley too often a pain in the ass for Nick, even they've also some good moments together.

 

[Fighter]

The strange thing is, I can't see Nick with anyone except Greg. Don't know why, I should probably be able to see them both in different relationships

You see I see the complete opposite.

I guess we will need to let this exchange of opinions drop soon if we don’t want to bore the others

I’m actually kinda surprised that you decided to respond only to this tiny part of my post because IMO I concentrated more on other issues. I was not trying to persuade anyone to see The Love, just stated it’s my favourite ship and that I –honestly- can’t see Nick with anyone but Greg (well, actually I remembered I liked him with Warrick at first but Yo!Bling soon clouded this first impression as Cath and Warrick were IMO the most obvious ship in the whole show).

I can’t help what I’m seeing and what I (and many others) see is Nick and Greg as lovers. We just interpret the same scenes differently. I’ve seen lots of evidence that they are attracted to each other: like the soap scene in Scuba Doobie-Doo, the famous Love sign Nick gave Greg in Abra Cadaver, finally him looking directly at Greg when saying ‘marriage in a public declaration of love’ in Rashomama, Greg’s ‘I thought we had a relationship’ in Random Acts of Violence (hope I got all the info correctly ) but I think there’s no point in detailing all the scenes as with ships people just can’t help seeing or not seeing something.

Nick has always had a flirtatious manner with Catherine, Mandy and Sara. Remember in Rashomona when she was holding some up lingerie and she said, "I need your hands." and Nick said, "I thought you'd never ask." Then Catherine made a remark about being being careful and Nick said, "Cover your ass?" and she said, "Yeah." and he said, "Loved too." He's always been very flirty with the ladies. Mandy and he have the cutest of flirty scenes starting with Mandy Dandy in Burked and then onto "Oh Mandy" in Happenstance.

However, with Greg, he's much more of a brother to him. Much more of leader. I've never seen anything that indicates there's a romantic stuff between them. If anything Nick finds Greg very annoying at times.

Greg and Riley have flirted a few times together and Greg had a huge crush on Sara for eons. We kind of got that inkling in Fannysmackin' when he told Sara he'd know her 'scent anywhere.' That's indicative of a crush. He hit on her plain and clear in the very first season.

Well, I simply don’t see it, sorry. I agree there may be some scenes where he was mildly flirtatious but I’ve always pictured Nick as a person who’s afraid to admit he’s gay so he thinks he actually needs to flirt with the ladies sometimes to prove otherwise.

As for Greg, I agree he had a great crush on Sara (and I really liked the thought of them being together ) but anyway, IMO Greg’s bi so it was no wonder for me that he’s flirting with women :lol:

But everyone sees what they want to see, even I. And I certainly hope I don't get flamed for this. After all, the writers' in the end will do what they want to do with the show, it doens't matter how we feel or who we hope the characters wind up with. TPTB will do what they want and how they see fit with the show.

And someone can point out the whole argument about subtext, but subtext is subjective. It's not a science. I never saw any subtext with GSR because it was a well known fact Grissom was going to wind up with Sara, it was a question of when it would happen. It happened to take too long for it be canon, but it was there. The arc was very cleary. TPTB simply teased the audience for eons about where things stood with Sara and Grissom.

As for Nick and Greg, there have never been any clear cut signs saying there was more to their friendship than it was. Nick's a bit more obvious with his emotions, so I think it would have been much clearer if there was a romantic relationship because of how Nick is with his emotions. He's an open window.

I agree that N/G shippers work largely from the subtext but IMO it's the same with people who ship Nick and Cath/Sara/Warrick/Mandy etc. I actually like it this way because fans of a certain ship can see what they wanna see while non-shippers will refuse to see it and so everyone's happy as I mentioned, when it comes to Nick I think he's afraid to show his emotions towards Greg openly but IMO Greg's interest in Nick has always been clear. But that's just my opinion, of course

I know there was some talk of him being 'jealou' in Leave Out All The Rest' when he snapped at Riley and Greg, but they were pushing the professional boundary with their sex talk and he told them to back off for each other's own protection, there was no jealousy there at all.

I guess that’s the beauty of this show, it has so many meanings In my interpretation, Nick actually wasn’t jealous, but just afraid Greg would inadvertently tell Riley something about their relationship and he wasn't ready to reveal it :lol:

EDIT: lol, I was writing for so long two people got before me. I can just repeat what I said: I can't help what I'm seeing and I see N/G as a couple. I think I have the same right to ship them as you have the right to think about them as brothers.
NickyFan, you said Nick can only be with Mandy. Well, IMO he can only be with Greg I think we need to agree to disagree as we obviously won't never persuade one another

 

[myfuturecsi]

Well, I simply don’t see it, sorry. I agree there may be some scenes where he was mildly flirtatious but I’ve always pictured Nick as a person who’s afraid to admit he’s gay so he thinks he actually needs to flirt with the ladies sometimes to prove otherwise.

No I don't believe he is. I think Nick is much braver than that, if he is gay, he's going to admit outright and if he does. I don't think Greg would be the guy he'd go for anyways because he would not date a subordinate.

Flirting is simply flirting. I've never met a man who is gay and flirts with women.

I actually like it this way because fans of a certain ship can see what they wanna see while non-shippers will refuse to see it and so everyone's happy as I mentioned, when it comes to Nick I think he's afraid to show his emotions towards Greg openly but IMO Greg's interest in Nick has always been clear. But that's just my opinion, of course

You say 'refuse' to see it as if it's there but we don't want to see it. It's not that. We just don't see it the way you see it.

I’ve seen lots of evidence that they are attracted to each other: like the soap scene in Scuba Doobie-Doo, the famous Love sign Nick gave Greg in Abra Cadaver, finally him looking directly at Greg when saying ‘marriage in a public declaration of love’ in Rashomama, Greg’s ‘I thought we had a relationship’ in Random Acts of Violence (hope I got all the info correctly ) but I think there’s no point in detailing all the scenes as with ships people just can’t help seeing or not seeing something.

The "I Love You" signs simply could have been an angle of the camera, and it was also due to a recap by Leslie Sobell in TWOP. The "relationship" was Greg's way of building a repoir with the team knowing full well he was going to leave the Lab.

As for your "evidence". Evidence is tangible, subtext is not tangible. It's interpretation. There is no tangible evidence Nick and Greg are attracted to each other. Until I get a full out Brokeback Mountain kissing scene, I'm not buying it.

But we see what we want to see. It's not about refusing to see something. It's just subtext which is due in part to some very clever writers and actors who like to tease the fans at times.

And besides I think Greg has a thing for Hodges..didn't he tell him to kiss his ass!

 

[Fighter]

Well, I simply don’t see it, sorry. I agree there may be some scenes where he was mildly flirtatious but I’ve always pictured Nick as a person who’s afraid to admit he’s gay so he thinks he actually needs to flirt with the ladies sometimes to prove otherwise.

No I don't believe he is. I think Nick is much braver than that, if he is gay, he's going to admit outright and if he does. I don't think Greg would be the guy he'd go for anyways because he would not date a subordinate.

Flirting is simply flirting. I've never met a man who is gay and flirts with women.

As I said, to me his flirting is a way of hiding the fact he's gay, it seems (to me of course) he was raised in quite a conservative family so IMO he has problems with admitting he's attracted to men. And I actually met a man who's a gay and he flirted with women because he didn't want everyone to suspect he's gay

I actually like it this way because fans of a certain ship can see what they wanna see while non-shippers will refuse to see it and so everyone's happy as I mentioned, when it comes to Nick I think he's afraid to show his emotions towards Greg openly but IMO Greg's interest in Nick has always been clear. But that's just my opinion, of course

You say 'refuse' to see it as if it's there but we don't want to see it. It's not that. We just don't see it the way you see it.

Ok, I guess I used the wrong word. What I meant is what you said: I see something you don't see and the other way round.

I’ve seen lots of evidence that they are attracted to each other: like the soap scene in Scuba Doobie-Doo, the famous Love sign Nick gave Greg in Abra Cadaver, finally him looking directly at Greg when saying ‘marriage in a public declaration of love’ in Rashomama, Greg’s ‘I thought we had a relationship’ in Random Acts of Violence (hope I got all the info correctly ) but I think there’s no point in detailing all the scenes as with ships people just can’t help seeing or not seeing something.

The "I Love You" signs simply could have been an angle of the camera, and it was also due to a recap by Leslie Sobell in TWOP. The "relationship" was Greg's way of building a repoir with the team knowing full well he was going to leave the Lab.

As for your "evidence". Evidence is tangible, subtext is not tangible. It's interpretation. There is no tangible evidence Nick and Greg are attracted to each other. Until I get a full out Brokeback Mountain kissing scene, I'm not buying it.

Yes, the love sign could have been the angle, or the recap, 'we had a relationship' could have meant something else.
But, just the same, the instances you gave of Nick and Greg's flirty behaviour with Cath/Riley/Mandy can also be interpreted in a completely different way. I'm not trying to persuade you to see Nick and Greg together I just have the right to interpret these scenes that way just as you have the right to interpret 'Oh,Mandy' as a proof Nick's attracted to her

 

[happyharper13]

But we see what we want to see. It's not about refusing to see something. It's just subtext which is due in part to some very clever writers and actors who like to tease the fans at times.

And besides I think Greg has a thing for Hodges..didn't he tell him to kiss his ass!

First of all, I just have to say that I think everyone is doing a good job of being respectful about this, which is really good. I know it's really hard to debate ships without getting testy (I know I tend to get witchy about it). So thanks to both of you guys for keeping this respectful and relatively light :thumbsup:

No I don't believe he is. I think Nick is much braver than that, if he is gay, he's going to admit outright and if he does. I don't think Greg would be the guy he'd go for anyways because he would not date a subordinate.

Flirting is simply flirting. I've never met a man who is gay and flirts with women.

Perhaps the reason a gay guy would flirt with women is to seem straight, hence avoiding being seen as a gay guy flirting with women, but rather as a straight one. That said, I think flirting is one of THE most subjective things. Personally, I'm a fairly flirtatious person and I tend to flirt with all of my friends, be they male or female, and often unknowingly, just because it's part of my personality. I'm straight, and while I think that flirtation can be indicative of sexuality, it's not definitive.

As for gay guys flirting with women, I definitely know it exists. My last ex-boyfriend flirted plenty with me and other girls before he came (mostly) out of the closet. To my knowledge, he's still doing it (and still dating a girl ). And he grew up in a very supportive, gay-friendly environment. At our high school, the LGBT Day of Silence was literally the biggest school-day event of the year and two gay guys ended up winning almost a third of the yearbook superlatives. Nick clearly grew up in a very different environment, one that was far less likely to encourage people coming out of the closet.

While I agree that Nick is a brave person, I don't think we can really rule out the possibility of him being less than 100% straight just because he flirts with women and he seems "too brave" to hide in the closet. If I were gay and in his shoes, working on a police force in a relatively conservative area and having grown up in a very conservative area, I really don't think I would come out either, no matter how brave I was. I think it has less to do bravery and more to do with pragmatism. If there's something in your life that you know would very likely stir up trouble for you in your place of work, then it just isn't terribly helpful to make that thing known to your coworkers. Nick cares about his job and values his relationships with all of his coworkers, so, were he gay or bisexual, I don't think he would make that clear if it could potentially damage his work life.

 

[myfuturecsi]

While I agree that Nick is a brave person, I don't think we can really rule out the possibility of him being less than 100% straight just because he flirts with women and he seems "too brave" to hide in the closet. If I were gay and in his shoes, working on a police force in a relatively conservative area and having grown up in a very conservative area, I really don't think I would come out either, no matter how brave I was. I think it has less to do bravery and more to do with pragmatism. If there's something in your life that you know would very likely stir up trouble for you in your place of work, then it just isn't terribly helpful to make that thing known to your coworkers. Nick cares about his job and values his relationships with all of his coworkers, so, were he gay or bisexual, I don't think he would make that clear if it could potentially damage his work life.

True, but I still don't think he is simply because I'm sure the writers would have made it more clear. I don't think you can not rule out flirty as indicative someone's sexual behaviour either. To my knowledge, Nick has never flirted with Greg. He's called him weird, and joked with him in a brotherly way, but no never flirting.

And I still think Greg and Hodges belong together, or Hodges and Bobby D.

 

[happyharper13]

And I still think Greg and Hodges belong together, or Hodges and Bobby D.

I can't see Greg with Hodges, partially because I cannot stand Hodges, partially because I think he's always been a major jerk to Greg, and partially because I think they would end up killing each other within an hour. The one thing I can see between them is competition in general, and, in terms of romance, competition for Wendy's attentions. I've always thought that Greg and Wendy would have made a much better couple than Hodges and Wendy. Technically, Greg and Wendy did just about become canon in season 6 during Spellbound when they agreed on a date at a nice restaurant (albeit with Wendy promising to bring a friend). I think Greg and Wendy have always had great chemistry.

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

And I still think Greg and Hodges belong together, or Hodges and Bobby D.

I can't see Greg with Hodges, partially because I cannot stand Hodges, partially because I think he's always been a major jerk to Greg, and partially because I think they would end up killing each other within an hour. The one thing I can see between them is competition in general, and, in terms of romance, competition for Wendy's attentions. I've always thought that Greg and Wendy would have made a much better couple than Hodges and Wendy. Technically, Greg and Wendy did just about become canon in season 6 during Spellbound when they agreed on a date at a nice restaurant (albeit with Wendy promising to bring a friend). I think Greg and Wendy have always had great chemistry.

I agree with you about Greg/Hodges, happyharper. Well except, I kind of like Hodges sometimes. :lol: I see them more as in the "frenemies" category than anything else.

The Greg/Wendy thing confused me. When she said she was bringing a friend, was she trying to set Greg up with said friend, or was she just bringing a friend so she'd have someone else to take her home if things didn't go well? :lol:

And the only guy I can kind of see Bobby with is Henry. Definitely not Hodges. :lol:

 

[seabird]

Greg and Hodges??? Please if they can't stand each other! :lol: Besides, Hodges clearly has the hots for Wendy and after the last episodes, everything points to Wedges becoming canon.

Perhaps the reason a gay guy would flirt with women is to seem straight, hence avoiding being seen as a gay guy flirting with women, but rather as a straight one.

As for gay guys flirting with women, I definitely know it exists. My last ex-boyfriend flirted plenty with me and other girls before he came (mostly) out of the closet. To my knowledge, he's still doing it (and still dating a girl ). And he grew up in a very supportive, gay-friendly environment. At our high school, the LGBT Day of Silence was literally the biggest school-day event of the year and two gay guys ended up winning almost a third of the yearbook superlatives. Nick clearly grew up in a very different environment, one that was far less likely to encourage people coming out of the closet.

While I agree that Nick is a brave person, I don't think we can really rule out the possibility of him being less than 100% straight just because he flirts with women and he seems "too brave" to hide in the closet. If I were gay and in his shoes, working on a police force in a relatively conservative area and having grown up in a very conservative area, I really don't think I would come out either, no matter how brave I was. I think it has less to do bravery and more to do with pragmatism. If there's something in your life that you know would very likely stir up trouble for you in your place of work, then it just isn't terribly helpful to make that thing known to your coworkers. Nick cares about his job and values his relationships with all of his coworkers, so, were he gay or bisexual, I don't think he would make that clear if it could potentially damage his work life.

My thoughts exactly. It's called 'being in the closet'. Someone like Nick, who comes from a very conservative background and works in the law enforcement yes, without doubt, he would stay in the closet. I think all of us have met at some point, a 'Nick Stokes' in our lives and we know what we're talking about, right?

When people refer to Nick and Greg as brothers, I just don't see it. Nick and Warrick were like brothers. Nick and Greg, not so much. Brothers don't flirt between them; brothers don't check each others behind. Definitely, brothers don't act around each other like this:

Regarding the 'I love you sign', well, the photographic evidence doesn't lie. Here's Nick clearly flashing the 'I Love You' sign to Greg:

And this is Nick flashing the 'rock on' sign in "Crows Feet" (no thumb here, no matter the camera angle):

The 'I Love You' scene from "Abracadaver" could have ended on the cut room floor....but it didn't. And in that scene from "Random Acts of Violence", Greg could have easily say: "I thought we were friends" but no, he said "I thought we had a relationship" which is much more ambiguous and if we added Greg's body language during the whole scene (he acts like my friend's boyfriend when he goes out without telling her) well, that's slashy goodness for us.

As Fighter has said earlier, we could mention many other Nick/Greg moments but the bottom line is subtext actually exists . Some people will see it, others won't but definitely, subtext is there. Just read my signature

 

[Kimbo08]

NO offense to anyone, but I see this as kind of a stretch. But I guess everyone sees what they want to see, and I do not see Nick with Greg. I see them as strictly brothers. The "I Love You" sign is open for interpretation in my opinion. He could be throwing up the rock on symbol with his thumb out as well. I don't see any underlying emotions there, just brotherly love .

I could see Greg attractied to Hodges even though they don't like each other. I consider that sexual tension!