The Great Ship Debate - CSI:Crime Scene Investigation

Yes it does. Debate please.

 

I was under the impression that this thread was to discuss any "ship" you like, on your theories, views opinions, and ideas, if we can't discuss what we feel is revelant and paramount to what we think, then what is the point of this thread, and what are we allowed to discuss?

 

Saying, 'I think X and X are X because [enter valid reason here]' is fine, as is, 'I'm not sure about X couple because [enter valid reason here]'. Or an equivalent, but you get the idea. The threads for debating reasons why various ships would/wouldn't work.

 

I think it would be interesting to see Grissom and Lady Heather together for they are complete opposites yet can balance out the other equally.

Lady Heather could tell from one meeting what Grissom liked, yet he's complex enough to still be a mystery for her to unravel.

Grissom on the other hand rarely see the bad in people and over looked what she did for a living and was willing to talk to her.

Plus when she was in the hospital he was there offering comfort and support to get her though the trauma. He was offering what he could to someone who means a lot to him.

 

OK, on the debate, I think this is fine, LH and Grissom never slept together because from Grissoms own lips in "Ending Happy" he stated "sex without love makes one sad"and as far as the writers have shown us, he''s never slept with anyone but Sara, I think this, because this is what the writers have shown the viewers, and on "chemistry" it would have to consist of long term, an actual relationship, which they never had! seeing a person 4 times in 8, almost nine years does indeed, not constitute a relationship!

 

I don't even know if this is worth a comment on, but going on mere episodes as counting the number of times Grissom has seen Heather is silly. He could have easily seen her LH off screen! The chemistry is there with LH and Grissom. Where as with Sara... it simply has died. I mean... it's an assumption that Grissom even knows what love means. I think his relationship with Sara is simple in the sense that he completely settled for Sara. I don't think Sara was the one he ever truly wanted to begin with. She's not enough of a challenge for him. She makes his life easy and her every move is expected... known. Well, except for her leaving him behind with just a mere letter. And sorry... who does that to someone that they supposedly love deeply?

The reason I don't see GSR working out is simple. I think Sara has always searched for a father figure... a man to take care of her. To me, she seemed to get lost in the notion of WHAT she thought she wanted from Grissom, but ended up leaving because in reality she just wasn't happy. She was lost, and hopefully she realized that what she wanted from Grissom wasn't LOVE, but something else.

As far as LH and Grissom go... that is obvious by just watching them. They seem to do everything a lot better. The communication is open, and I just find that healthy and something much needed in a relationship... without it you simply sink. LH and Grissom just reek of chemistry, and Catherine was right when she said Grissom was a scientist. And they are intense together... and I think Grissom thinks he truly messed up on that one... to the point where he thought he needed to move forward... because he didn't think he had a shot.

I just hope season 9 starts out with something fresh, and not something overdone (like GSR)... because it's like beating a dead horse.

 

OK, if you think they've seen each other off screen, that's a fan-fiction idea, I'm speaking of what the writers have shown us on CSI, and in "Pirates" when Brass stated, "an old friend of yours" is back, Grissom looked shocked, right there, it showed the hadn't seen one another for 3 years, and he always has a baffled, befuddled, confused expression on his face, when he's around her:vulcan:, and also down the line in the "Kill" ep. Brass asked him "Have you heard from Sara"? he goes "Yes, she's visiting her mom in San Francisco" 'How is she"? you'll have to ask her, and in that same ep. Cath said "go after her" and he goes "she wouldn't want that" and she goes "What do you want" I want her to be happy" the list is endless on what he's done for her vs LH! he's never done or said these things to her! [LH]

Sent her a love letter!
A cocoon gift!
said 'You make me happy"
And told the team She's the only one I've ever loved"
An everyone is entitled to what they think and what they percieve, I see a chemisty/connection so strong between G/S that it burns through the screen, and I am positive that this will end in a marriage, it's so so "HOTT" :drool:and the being together for 2 or 9 years, as he & she said to Ecklie, validates that they are in a relationship, and it's very much alive, this character is returning and as our wonderful writer David Rambo stated to many fans "Grissom will be thrilled to see her S/9"!

And on Sara leaving it wasn't because of him, it was for him! she's such a strong woman, she wanted to clear up her "ghosts" as she stated in her "letter" and not dump her problems on him like "others" do, she needed to do that so she'd be stronger, when she returned to him. I so admire that move on her part, and the letter stated "Know that your my one and only, and I've loved your forever, and will miss you with every beat of my heart" doesn't sound like that's a dead horse!

 

Sara and Grissom are simply overrated. They don't sizzle to me onscreen, and in fact they seemed to have more chemistry when they weren't a couple. And the things that Grissom has given Sara... she didn't seem very pleased with them. Especially the cocoon gift... she looked around in the box... expecting something else with it.

But with LH he seemed to give her something much more valuable than anything he ever gave Sara. He helped her with seeing her Granddaughter, and stayed over when she really needed a friend. Not to mention... Grissom didn't think of Sara when he was with Heather... which says a lot. He didn't even call Sara up and see if she was okay with it. He simply stayed the night with Heather without explaining. He dropped everything for Heather... and I mean everything and he also knew he could be jeopardizing a case. Hello... that alone says a lot!!!!!

Grissom doesn't seem befuddled when it comes to heather... he seemed to be to be very concerned for her in both PotTR and TGTBTD. In the later one, he seemed confused towards heather ONLY because she wasn't herself. To me he showed a lot of emotion for Heather.

I don't see GSR being anything in season 9... I think it will go away. I mean both JF and WP have both agreed that GSR was a mistake. And GSR wasn't in a relationship for 9 years... they simply knew each for 9 years. Part of that was while Grissom was her instructor and then Sara became apart of the team. I'm sure Grissom would say he was in a relationship with Catherine just as long if not longer. He's tight with his whole staff! And of course I think he will be delighted to see Sara... I'm sure everyone will be... she was part of the team.

Anyhow it will be interesting to see how Warrick's loss will affect everyone. I wonder if Greg and Sara will connect more emotionally because of it. Perhaps Catherine and Nick will grow closer... and help each other through it. Of course... I'm sure Grissom will hopefully help everyone. I'm just curious to see how this will affect everyone.

 

OK, that's your take on this, and everyone is entitled to their opinion, and on the cocoon, she was looking for a "note" but she understands him:thumbsup:and LH is also violent, and was beating a guy to death and he abbors violence, and was so turned off, and saw another side of her, he didn't like! in "Pirates" if he hadn't of found her, she would have! She also slept with her daughters murderer, and he was really turned off by that, "sex without love makes one sad" I always saw that he felt pity and sorrow for her, And then there's Sara who took a gorillas ashes out to a remote area buried them, I can't imagine LH ever doing that, and look what happened to her daughter, with LH's mothering skills it's no wonder, them she turns up in "TGTBATD' playing some western/saloon charater, And when he spent the night with her he was probably talking about her grandaughter, and telling her about Sara, and I think Grissom has always had a bit of a guilt trip from way back in "LHB' when he had her interogated by Brass, and felt he owed her, and after he was done, he went home to Sara, who was fine with that she's secure in their relationship. So, on bringing her grandaughter back, his debt was paid in full, and I'll go along with Brass on LH "get some help I know that the team will be thrilled to see her again, Nick her buddy, and Warrick who knows about that, and Greggie, and Cath and Brass and Doc, they all love her!

 

Funny that you say Grissom abhors violence... yet he's constantly surrounded by it. But I do get what you are saying. Meaningless violence is hard to stomach. But... I don't think he abhors Heather... and frankly he understood Heather enough to get her to stop whipping the man... THAT killed her daughter ruthlessly and violently. Not to mention he did pull her into a tight hug after the fact, so to me that completely discredits that he was turned off by her actions. To me Grissom was upset with the amount of pain Heather was in... and he understood or could emphasize why she did it. She wanted revenge. Grissom isn't one to usually hold back on his thoughts, and you know... I've never heard him talk badly about heather... or discredit her or what was her profession. Even when Catherine said..."I thought she killed him too. I mean I would have... I wouldn't have slept with him..." Grissom still remained quiet. I'm sure he didn't like it... probably wouldn't have done something like that himself... but I think he totally understood it.

Then honestly... if he had a big problem with all of that... he wouldn't have gone to the hospital in TGTBTD to personally see if heather was okay. His behavior was a slap in the face to Sara. She was immediately placed on the back burner and disregarded. I think she had every right to be upset with him. He does have history with Heather... and that history hasn't left him otherwise he would have never gotten so involved in an official case that he had no business getting involved with(Heather's custody battle).

I seriously doubt they talked about Sara. I'm sure they discussed all about Heather's issues and other things revolving LH and Grissom.

I don't think having heather as a mom... got Zoe killed! A sick pyschotic person killed Zoe.

 

Grissom never as spoken un-kindly abot her or anyone he likes. In "Grissom's Divine Comedy" when Cath was snooping around his spot, while he was getting ready for court [scene deleted] and found the photo of Gris and Sara on his fridge. from San Francisco days, and goes "how long have you and Sara been in a relationship?" It isn't that I dislike this character LH, it's just more "don't care about" she's not an important part of CSI or his life, and 4 times in 8 years, he's seen her, and they both live in Vegas, soooo absurd...and if one looks at it this way, it's kinda of a diservice to the actress, Melinda Clarke, to think she's pacing around chewing her nails hoping that the TPTB call her back for one more stint, I'm sure she's got other irons in the fire, in her career, and there would be no place for her, she was always just a guest on CSI as was others, who are now gone Vartann, Sofia, Mia, etc. just a comment about "WP & Jorja and a "mistake" nothing could be furthur from the truth, from the onset Jorja was brought on CSI to be Grissom's love interest, with him being the star and one of the producers, if he didn't want this to be happening you can bet, it wouldn't! Fans either love this,[GSR] hate it, don't care. are in denial or just don't get it Here's a few sites FYI if you want to read some comments about what both of them have said, as well as David Rambo on the "continuance of this relationship"

DAVID RAMBO SPEAKS

from or own news files~

http://www.csifiles.com/news/261006_02.shtml.... Jorja on Billy!

http://www.csifiles.com/news/010307_01.shtml..... Billy on their relationship!

 

I am not really sure why alot of people are arguing about the fact that GSR is real, it's alive and it's coming back. William Petersen, David Rambo, Carol Mendelson and Jorja Fox all love GSR. It's cannon. William Petersen actually said and was quoted in several magazines (including the latest CSI) that Grissom and Lady Heather NEVER had sex. The only person Gil Grissom has ever loved is Sara Sidle and the fans of the show need to respect that fact. I don't disagree with those who at first thought Grillows had a chance, but that was along time ago. Grissom and Heather had SOME chemistry, it's true, but keep in mind that hot Billy Petersen could have chemistry with a lamp. Magic is what he shares with Jorja Fox and magic, according to Jorja, Rambo and many others in the "KNOW" is coming back to CSI.

 

There are a lot of fans that don't like the relationship and are quite tired of having it shoved in their perspective faces...as well as always having to be the center of everything. I for one am one of those fans. Just because the writers favor it doesn't mean that everyone has to jump on board, respect is something that is earned especially how the group treats others who aren't fans.

And GSR fans need to repsct other fans and by talking about this all over the place isn't going to make people happy. Hence why there have been heated discussions...there is a place for ships and it's not always in regular places. And loving only one person doesn't mean he didn't have relationships with other women, love doesn't always have to be involved, like and lust are big factors as well.

Hard fact to sometimes swollow in this day and age, but people can have a relationship without having sex.

 

OK, actually GSR fans could care less about the ones that don't *get it* , and shoving it down their throats, maybe the writers should hear this, it's a done deal, and on LH where was she in S/8? and no plans for her return in S/9, and he's helped her out, but what has she ever done for him? oh, I know NOTHING" friendship is a two way street! but their "so connected" so silly he will never have a relationship nor marry LH, his "love, mind, heart, body and soul" belong to one person SARA, it's sad that when the show has a continuing story line that some can't stand, why do they watch the show, I'll be it would be a whole different story if it was Greg, Nick ,Cath etc.with someone they approved of! then some fans would hate that, but for me, if I did, I wouldn't go on and on about it, I'd accept it and carry on:thumbsup: and Piper love the comparions of Billy and "he could have chemistry with a lamp, you got that right"

 

Then why do you go on and on about this? You say you care less about what others fan feel(which is snarky by the way and RUDE) yet you constantly reply with the same stuff over and over and over and over again. Perhaps this is what turns people against GSR in the first place.

You thinking bolding will make people think the way you do? Denial? Please.. people aren't in denial. It's gone way past denial.... it's more like people dislike the ship or like the ship... and some might be indifferent. But it's pretty much black and white now. Notice I didn't use the word 'hate' because I think that is harsh.

Oh I know the ship exists... but I don't view it stable or strong. They can't even communicate properly with one another. Yes... I harp on that because what kind of relationship do you have with someone when you can't communicate your feelings to one another? Who leaves and moves to a different state without telling the person you love? So no... I don't view this ship to last. I think it will falter and it so needs to!

You mentioned airtime regarding LH/Grissom... and you know that is exactly what I like... if Grissom was paired with someone not on his staff... (fishing off the company pier only gets you in trouble... Catherine's words :lol sorry... anyhow if he was paired with let's say LH... the relationship wouldn't be so prevalent... which to me is a great thing. It doesn't mean they aren't in love... or care for each other... IF they were in a ship... but we wouldn't have to constantly see it. I think Grissom should have never been paired with a CSI... that is my stance.

You know another reason I don't care for GSR is I don't think Sara is into men. I can't really place it... or say why... but I see her playing on the other side. Oh... and I'm not bashing here. I actually ship LH/Catherine. <-- It's not my top ship... obviously catnip is...

Anyone like strawberry tea? Catnip? Sandle? Or are there any other people that would like to discuss other ships? GSR shouldn't take over the debate thread...