"Targets of Obsession" Discussion *SPOILERS*

[Ipstenu]

The Haskell storyline bored me to the point that I strained my eyes rolling them. The trial wasn't plausible at all, Haskell's escape wasn't plausible. Seriously, they're not going to have a guy sitting, looking RIGHT AT HIM the whole time after he shanked Ray? Do these people not LEARN?! They could have ended with the CSIs finding the dead woman's body and looking after where they presume Haskell went, thus bringing the episode back to the CSIs instead of making it CSI: Mr. Noodle. I just don't like how CSI has handled ANY serial killer though. Given the snark to Greg fans, before someone accuses me of just like Sara, I will remind everyone that I think the Miniature Killer sucked too - CSI does not, never has, and never will handle serial killers well. It's not their forte, and I wish they'd stop. Thank you.

Justin Bieber ... surprisingly better the second time around. He's learning, so okay, fine, the character got ram-rod development because we had to get ALL his motivation in two episodes. That's something that could have benefitted from multiple episodes. Bieber wouldn't have had to be in them, just showing Nick's ongoing investigation would have been both logical and sensible. Instead, after promising not to kill Jason's brother and then doing it, it fell off Nick's radar.

Speaking of... I'm disappointed in not getting to see NICK'S story. How did he get from the terrified, hyperventilating guy behind the car in 11x01 to the cowboy killer of McCann in 11x15? I feel like I missed a lot of character development for Nick. Would have liked to see in spread out across episodes. Just ONE scene every other ep, again, would have been about right. Not too much. Then you take this ep, make the A-Plot about NICK dealing with Jason (versus what we got) and you let George carry the episode.

 

[EmmaMay]

I don't forget that Greg is in the opening credits or that he was a recurring character before, HOWEVER that doesn't make him a main character or a lead. Saying main character maybe the wrong choice of words. Which he is not, in case you're forgotten.

By what you say, then Doc and Super Dave should get their episodes too. And so should have Wendy.

Being in the opening credits has nothing to do whether your a lead or a supporting character.

I'm just curious as to what your definition of main character is. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with anything being said, but has the show itself actually stated who it considers main and supporting (and I'm not referring to award show-esque styles like "Best Lead Actor" and "Best Supporting Actress")? My own personal thoughts is that, as an ensemble show, each character who is getting star-billing (opening credits) is a main character. You will have your leads, but the others can certainly act as mains.

And one could argue that Wendy did get her own episodes. Each of the rat episodes operated largely as devices to advance the Hodges/Wendy arc. I'm not speaking in absolutes, just pondering here.

That may be, but when there is constant complaining about his screen time, in the spoiler thread, in the pic thread or anyone where else it can be discussed, it gets old. I'm sorry, but Greg is a supporting character so he won't get much screen time. At some point you have to realize that, just like us Nick fans had to deal with it. So considering there was already complaining about his screen time before the ep even aired, I think I can safely say it's because of Greg's lack of screen time.

Does it suck when your favorite character doesn't get more screen time, it sure does, but Petersen isn't there anymore and he always made sure the cast was treated as an ensemble. Tptb seem to have forgotten that.

This statement confuses me. I wasn't a member of this site back before the days of Langston, but it sounds like from what you're saying here that Nick fans had a similar ordeal concerning Nick's time. Are you saying that no one then advocated for more Nick time and were not disappointed by his lack there of? And I'm not sure if this method of consoling (as it appears you're trying to do) is entirely fair. You say that Nick fans learned to deal. Was that before or after he became a lead and started carrying whole episodes and possibly seasons?

I do agree, however, that there can be too much complaining over character time, development, etc. I myself have been guilty of it. Perhaps a toning down would be good overall, but I can't speak for anyone other than myself.

Anywho, back to the episode. At work this morning, the big talk was how awesome the death of Bieber was. There was one guy who actually rewatched that scene four times. No it wasn't me. :lol:

I think it really puts it into perspective when someone says Greg is a supporting character. He seems to have just been pushed further into the background, coming out only for an episode, which to me, was mediocre and seemed rushed.
As far as I am concerned, he's been a main character since he stepped out from the lab and he isn't getting the recognition he deserves. Hell, Eric is a great actor, it's their own loss that they aren't utilising him more.

 

[Smokey]

Hey guys, how about if we take the screentime and character development discussion to that thread unless it is specific to this episode? Discuss it all you want there.

 

[Rizzoli]

I loved "Targets of Obsession", Catherine was back to her old self in this episode, Its really sad Marg is leaving, I can't imagine 'CSI' without her

 

[Smokey]

I loved "Targets of Obsession", Catherine was back to her old self in this episode, Its really sad Marg is leaving, I can't imagine 'CSI' without her

Agreed. And speaking of, I was watching again today, and she looked amazing in that sweater in the first scene. Really beautiful. And she did a great job there too as the team leader.

 

[CazzBlade]

I was disappointed with this ep. I loved the warehouse bomb scenes, very tense and dynamic, but it felt to me like they'd come up with the idea for that situation first and then worked the rest of the bomb storyline around it. It didn't seem fully fleshed out.

As for Haskell *rolleyes*, I did enjoy how Ray got one over on him in court, but I still don't see the point of the whole thing! Waste of a storyline for me.

Also disappointed that we didn't get an explanation for Greg holding a gun Sometimes I'm quite happy filling in the gaps for myself, but this time I would really have liked it to at least be acknowledged.

 

[waiting4summer]

Was it only me, or did Haskell appear whiny and needy in this episode? Back when he was first introduced to us he definitely had the creep factor going for him. Then when he attacked Ray he had the evilness factor. But now, he just seemed almost pathetic with his courtroom theatrics and desperate need to 'hurt' Ray one more time. I know when I start to feel sorry for a truly heinous criminal, then it's time to move on.

On the Jason McCann front I think that his poor brother was probably just a pawn in the whole game. IMO, Little JB had everyone fooled, including Nick. I feel worse for Nick having killed the brother, then I do for his death of the teenager. Just knowing that little creep was playing cat and mouse with Nick in last night's epi really rankled. I'm glad that even though the 'baddies' violated the outside of Nick's place, he still at least has the knowledge that the inside was not violated, as was the case in the Crane incident. With house sales the way they are, I'm not sure Nick could afford to move again. At the rate he's in danger, if he had to move every time that happened he might as well not even unpack.

Oh, and if anyone's interested.... I posted my theory on Greg and the whole gun situation over at the Fort. Not making that mistake here again. :lol:

 

[myfuturecsi]

Just watched it and laughed when my daughter gasped as Nick shot Bieber...oh George you are the most hated man in the world right LOL!

I loved the hospital scene with Nick and Catherine..it..was..very..sexy..

 

[jafox]

How is CW affiliated with CBS? You've confused me.

I saw this a while back and wanted to answer. The CW is a co-venture between CBS and Warner Brothers studios. But, we don't get cross programming here in the US. CW is geared toward the younger demo, and they have their own programming development.

As far as the episode goes, I don't have a whole lot to add to what's already been said, but here's my 2cents:

I was pleasantly surprised to see Sara. I've always loved her as a lab rat.
Her scenes with Greg and Doc may have been token appearances, but I liked them.

Marg did a great job. What can I say; I love her in a ponytail.

The Haskell storyline is certainly overdone, and was overly dramatic, not to mention, slightly ridiculous; but, I did think LF and Bill Irwin did a great job with what they were given. Will we see Haskell again this season, or next? Can't wait.

I want to be kind to Justin Bieber, but the kid just can't act. It was adequate, at best. I wish we hadn't been spoiled with the news of his demise; but, knowing he was going to be shot and killed may have taken away some from the impact of that scene. I was thoroughly unmoved.
On the other hand, the scene where Kip was blown up did make an impact.

This episode is hard to grade because it was so un-CSI, and there was so much hype. In a vacuum, I'd say it wasn't too bad, maybe a B-; but in the CSI series world, I'd give it a C-. Too much over-the-top drama; very little true substance.

That said, there were some pretty good quotes:

Sara about Bieber/McCann: We need to get his autograph. :lol:

Interesting court room terms: 'gratuitous sadism' and 'neuromythology'.

Haskell to Ray: You complete me. :lol:

Nick: stairway to heaven

 

[Desertwind]

:censored:This episode made me extremely nervous and nauseous, both parts. I do love what ever the the writers present to the viewers and am overwhelmed that they can keep putting out dynamic stories, and don't watch it to find fault or nit-pick it. I thought it was incredible, from the begining to the end.. Laurence Fishburne remarkable..:bolian: My summary~

Nate Haskell a real freak-show as always rambling his pyscho babble, with poor Ray so dismayed, disturbed and disgusted. His expressions, tell it all, what a great actor we've got in LF, amazing. Haskell is insane, but as sly as a fox in his twisted bizarre mind. I still don't get why he hates Ray, unless it's the jealously factor, Rays got it together, and he doesn't~

Nick at his house [1st time we saw this] Jason calls, the little con. Nick is warned but as we find out later all a ruse. Nick calls the bomb squad and is visibly upset seeing the spray painted tyranny "I'm not afraid to die, lets see if they are" Cath [and her hair looked great] "Haul his ass into PD"~

Ray on the stand so calm cool, and collected and freak show Haskell making his relive his stabbong ordeal. Ray those exotic eyes, lordie. How he felt, "I was afraid I was going to die" ya' think Haskell is so spooky

Sara and Greg analyzing the whole thingy a leftie, and bring up Jason McCann. NIck & him again, the little weasel. Although the Beebs did a little better acting in this episode then in "Shock Waves" [he does have a cute face] Brass and his legal guardian Brass so funny on talking to him "You'd be surprised" On how he got the bruise. "He fell while skateboarding. Brass "Yeah sure":lol: The let him go, Brass to Nick "you shot his bro. why would he want to save your life"? exactly:vulcan:

Hodges telling Cath and Sara the grenades ingredients~

Nick, Cath, Lou and Kip [the bomb expert] go to the empty bldg. Lou to Nick "Whats' wrong with you are you some kind of bomb magnet"? They find Jasons guardian dead, the whole building is rigged to the nines with bombs. They try to get out and only have 14 minutes, build a pyramid of sorts, Kip think's he's disabled the bomb but another goes off and kills him and the other 3 are wounded. Lou had a artery cut in the first blast. All in the hospital.

Back in the court room drama Nate had a MRI his brain was totally dark in areas that show feelings and remorse, he's got none, which make him extremely violent. He's his own defense, so he asks the doctor what caused this genetic defect doctor says a MAO genetic defect also known as the "warrior gene" agression the cause "childhood abuse". He says He can't be responsible ro his actions [what a crock]. Ray is p....offed. He's also got a whole gaggle of women in the courtroom groupies so gross, what's wrong with them?:scream:

They confront Ray at the drinking fountain and he sees they've all got the "Star Of David" pendant on, the same one that all his victims wore. He tells the finance about them and she makes weak excuses for him "he wasn't responsible" Brass :"I see you met the brides of Haskell":lol: He's trying to get his convictions overturned

Kip dies and Cath goes to see Lou at the hospital "Where else would I be" and Nick tells her "You've always taken care of me how about I take care of you? Cath "OK, thank's Nicky and they hug ahhhh

On the MAO Ray:: "It's utter nonsense", and gives his conclusions, it can be controlled and that he as well had an alcoholic abusive father [another reveal] and has the MAO gene too. but he never killed anybody and that "Haskell does no the difference between right and wrong" He puts him in his place. Nate" Don't you think that was a little below the belt Ray"? [oh shut up] :klingon: but Ray has that look of satisfaction

Doc and Sara finding out the bullet caliber and Greg nails the supplies of the bomb at a arsenal store in No. Las Vegas.. guess who

So Haskell is found guilty and Ray is pleased.[he's so awesome] He does however notice that Haskell is fiddling with his wrist band, and that his finance nods to him.

Nick calls the little evil doer and calls him a "punk" [which he is] and Greg goes 'I don't think he liks you anymore":lol:

Ray goes to see Haskell once more Nate babbles again about how "magnificent" he was but beware of pride" whatever.. shut up leave Ray. He wants to know how long he's known about the MOA, and again plays cat and mouse with him."I'm a chick magnet" GROSS/DISGUSTING. Ray:: "Look at you in this cage, pathetic" Talks about "freedom" [gawd who knew it would be so soon?] Ray:: "You killed 14 people, there's no gene that's going to make you magically free" :wtf: wanna bet?

The the shoot out, HORRIBLE, Jason getting shot, and was a con till the end. I didn't particulary care for hm on CSI, but OMG that was brutal/bloody, I scramed and went "NO":screamoor Nick he must have nitemaresso bye bye Beebs~

Ray in the parking garage with all of Haskells freaky gals, feel something is not right, goes back and find he's switched out with another dude in his place. GEEZ, how did he swing that? and how did all those law people die? so his Girlfriend shoots the other gal who was ther waiting with her. So this whole thing was planned out. We hear the helicopter swirling, above and they drive away, into the night. And so this saga of Nate Haskell is not over. I felt this was an intense, riveting, intriguing, exciting, scintillating, compelling episode and give it a big fat A+

 

[Wojo]

I enjoyed Ray in this episode for a change, I love the Haskell character too. It was a really good episode, and seeing Justin Bieber die was the highlight of my week!! I actually cheered!!

 

[K-Bug]

Well, if you take away the Haskell/Ray parts and the ridiculously hilarious escape at the end (I laughed, not even gonna lie), I loved this episode. I think the bomb stuff was very well done, and that the actors and actresses handled the material very well. I think Marg nailed the concerned lover/supervisor/mom figure so well in this episode. I love that when Vartann got injured, she didn't freak out and she went right into saving his life mode, then into comfort mode. Very well done. I also really like how they were positioned. You can tell that Cath was trying to protect Lou, either as the blast occurred or after, she crawled over to make sure that he was okay, which was adorable. I did giggle cause it looks like Nick's hand is on Catherine's butt. I was like, now is that really necessary. I'm glad they aren't killing off Vartann. I'm cautiously optimistic about where VCR is going from here. They seem to be on level ground, so I'm hoping that when/how Catherine leaves, the romance isn't ruined.

I'm really sad that Kip was killed off. He was cute and adorable and I honestly didn't see him dying. When the bomb started counting down again I literally said "OH MY GOD!!! NO!!!!" I like that Kip died a hero. I'm thinking the indication there was that had he not thrown himself over the bomb it could have been a lot worse for Nick, Cath, and Lou. So that was cool.

The Nick/Cath stuff, as well as the Lou/Cath stuff at the hospital, were sweet. We hardly see Marg acting in sneakers, so it was funny to see how little she is next to George without heels.

Beebs actually wasn't too bad. I think more is less in some cases. Here we got to see great screentime for Cath and Nick, and it kept the beliebers happy to see him all "badass" for 5 minutes. The kid is actually growing on me. I may have to ditch my boys and join the girls in the daily Bieber debate. :lol:

One thing that annoyed me, though, was when the firefighters came to the warehouse. I've taken a few first aid classes, and one thing they've repeatedly stressed is that you never move someone who is unconscious because you do not know if they have a neck injury, and moving them can cause serious damage. So when Cute Firefighter Man rolled Catherine really roughly off of Lou to check her pulse, it didn't sit well with me. And that's leaving out the part about how he like smacked the oxygen mask over her face. :lol: But seriously, that didn't sit well with me...

All in all, if you take out the Ray/Haskell crap, it was a great episode.

 

[Speedystokesgirl]

Nick at his house [1st time we saw this]

Actually, this is the second time we've been to Nick's house. 1st time was in 'Stalker'. Different house, though. Which would be expected, but I'm glad we got to see his new house.


I forgot about Lou saying to Nick 'what are you a bomb magnet?' :guffaw:

Actually no, he's just the trouble magnet. :lol:

ETA: Oh yeah the other thing that was wrong in the episode. When the trial started Ray was in the courtroom. There is no way he would be allowed to sit in there if he was a witness. After his testimony he could, but not before. It's not allowed. Sorry tptb you have it wrong. Taking that dramatic license again, I see.

 

[blackflag]

How is CW affiliated with CBS? You've confused me.

I saw this a while back and wanted to answer. The CW is a co-venture between CBS and Warner Brothers studios. But, we don't get cross programming here in the US. CW is geared toward the younger demo, and they have their own programming development.

It must be more of a local thing. My CW station aired CSI when CBS was airing the Patriots preseason football games (which for some reason always seemed to be on Thursday nights!). They also air CSI: NY on weekends.


Susan

 

[Sinclair]

I feel like i watched half an episode, which with all the fast forwarding i did meant about 15 minutes of actually watching this ep.

I knew i wouldn't be the slightest bit interested in the court case but my god was it dire, in the 10 years or so that i've watched CSI i've never been so bored with a storyline.

It also serverd to take away the energy that was built up in the second storyline.

I was a little bemused by Nick's reaction to the bomb at his house, i guess it's part of a developing character arc but at times it felt very OOC.

Instantly warmed to Kip, it felt as though he had always been a part of the show, settled in really well to the feel of the show and had great chemistry with Nick. Having said all that it was therefore obvious that Kip had to die.

Vartann had a bit more snark this ep 'what is it with you, are you some kind of bomb magnet' also his comment to Kip about the bomb timer.

This might sound weird but i liked the way they had Vartann injured, wasn't expecting that, he took a bullet to the leg pretty well, loved the comment to Cath about hating that's she's always right :lol:.

Enjoyed the Cath/Vartann scenes in the warehouse more than the scene in the hospital. I expected more of the hospital scene but it ended up feeling weird and confusing as to where C/V stand.

It's great to see this development between Cath and Nick (although i am apprehensive as to where it might be leading). It really feels like Cath is passing over leadership to Nick at times, perhaps leading up to Cath's exit. I blame Nick's Naivety when it came to Jason on his desire to always see the good in people and his connection with kids. Had it been any other character in Nick's position the storyline just wouldn't have been plausible.

Despite Bieber's bobble head death at the end i thought the kid done good, in fact i'd rather watch one of his scenes again than watch even one second of the ray/haskell storyline .

It'll be interesting to see how many of the points raised in this episode are actually continued through the rest of the season.