Supernatural #3 - No Chick Flick Moments
- Thread starter Urban Legend
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I don't think God should use either of their parents as a vessel. It would hurt the boys too much. It would kind of be like having their mom/dad back, but not having them back. Lucifer using Jess to talk to Sam was mean, but then again Lucifer is the devil, so he's supposed to be mean. God isn't. I think using one of the boys' dead parents would just be cruel IMHO.
Maybe though, he could use one of their grandparents which they never knew.... although Dean met Samuel and Deana Winchester when he went to the past that time. And the actor who played Grandpa Samuel was pretty well known I think. I can't remember his name offhand though. But, he might be good to use for God's vessel if God could use someone who was dead.
Maybe though, he could use one of their grandparents which they never knew.... although Dean met Samuel and Deana Winchester when he went to the past that time. And the actor who played Grandpa Samuel was pretty well known I think. I can't remember his name offhand though. But, he might be good to use for God's vessel if God could use someone who was dead.
Ginnna
Lab Technician
The guy they used for Grandpa Samuel is Mitch Pileggi... I know that because I used to be a huge X-Files fanatic and he played Mulder and Scully's boss for a long time.
I dunno if I'd wanna see him or either of the boys' parents act as God's condom. You're right, it'd probably more painful than anything. It wouldn't help the boys cope, it would make it worse. Besides... like GNRfan and Baba said, maybe he can just say the word and create his own vessel!
Another question for y'all... do you think it's possible that Castiel is Dean's Ruby? There are people on the CW forums who think this is a distinct possibility, who think that Castiel is sneaky and manipulative and secretly evil. Anyone think there's any truth to that?
I dunno if I'd wanna see him or either of the boys' parents act as God's condom. You're right, it'd probably more painful than anything. It wouldn't help the boys cope, it would make it worse. Besides... like GNRfan and Baba said, maybe he can just say the word and create his own vessel!
Another question for y'all... do you think it's possible that Castiel is Dean's Ruby? There are people on the CW forums who think this is a distinct possibility, who think that Castiel is sneaky and manipulative and secretly evil. Anyone think there's any truth to that?
Vildis
Lab Technician
There is always the possibility, but I do not think Castiel might be Dean's Ruby. Maybe I am wrong, but I got the impression that Ruby did what she wanted to do. She did not care about anyone, not even Sam. Even if we found out later that she was Lucifer's helper. But I can not see how Castiel can be compared to Ruby. Castiel seems to care about both brothers, although he mostly hang out with Dean. Okay, maybe the wrong word. But he mainly talks to Dean.. And he tries help both Sam and Dean. As in the last episode of season 4, before Lucifer was released. In a way Ruby never did helped them. Ruby had selfish intentions. Castiel doesn't seem to have those selfish intentions.
Oh, forgot that Ruby always told the brothers (mainly Sam) what they should do. Castiel let the brothers do almost whatever they want, as long as they have good intentions. Which means as longas they do what they should do, it doesn't matter HOW they do it. I have got that impression anyway.
About God not doing stuff to Dean and Sam that would seem too cruel... but didn't all of this go down because it was God's will? At least, that's what Gabriel said. Also, the angels aren't exactly sweethearts, are they? Something tells me that God can't be that sensitive and nice if a fair chunk of the angels are dicks! :lol: And I think somehow that's going to play out with Lucifer too- I mean he's just another angel who felt let down by God right? And I think his usage of Sam's late girlfriend was meant to be more seductive than cruel- I think that's the method of this particular angel- Lucifer: lure people in. He's represented that way a lot of the time, so...?
Anyway, that's just my two cents. If the angels are any indication, I don't expect God to be real swell guy (or gal.
I think that idea of Mary ending the whole thing since it seemed to start with her is an intriguing idea!)
Anyway, that's just my two cents. If the angels are any indication, I don't expect God to be real swell guy (or gal.
I think that idea of Mary ending the whole thing since it seemed to start with her is an intriguing idea!)
Vildis
Lab Technician
Sam's late girlfriend? Who was that? I can only remember Jessica (she was only in the beginning of season 1. First episode and flashback). Oh, and that girl who turned into a werewolf in season 3 (I think), but she was never Sam's girlfriend. Just someone he liked and had sex with.
Ginnna
Lab Technician
Vildis, Lucifer appeared to Sam as Jess, the one who died like his mother, the one from the first season.
BabaOReilly, I hadn't thought of it like that, but yeah, there's every possibility that God, in the SPN universe, is also a big dick. I think there's also the possibility that he's neither a good guy nor a bad guy... that he might resemble the deistic idea of a god, an incredibly powerful being that created the world and then faded into the background. Well, he might be a kind of combination... he'd been involved (thousands of years ago) and now he's nowhere to be found. He's removed himself.
He'll probably pop up and Dean will scream "YOUR MYSTERIOUS WAYS BLOW!!! HOW CAN ALL OF THIS BE ACCORDING TO YOUR WILL???" and God will calmly reply "I haven't exerted my will over the earth for along time".
Continuing the Cas speculation (and I'm probably the only one who cares at this point): another reason why I don't think Castiel is evil - his vessel would've said something. What's the one thing all folks possessed by evil have said?
"I saw horrible things, I did horrible things, this monster inside of me is evil", etc etc. Jimmy said it was like being "chained to a comet", which I assume means "holy crap it's a bumpy ride", but he didn't come out screaming "THANK GOD I'M FREE FROM THAT VILE CREATURE".
Also... Castiel has killed angels right in front of Dean, Sam & Zachariah in order to save the boys. Normally killing angels would be a mark in the "evil" column, but since the angels were in fact trying to TORTURE the boys within an inch of death, Cas was doing a good thing.
I can get behind the "manipulative" accusation, though. When Castiel jumped into Jimmy's daughter, I'm fairly sure that his real intention was to prompt Jimmy to consent to vesselhood again (and "vesselhood" isn't a real word, but... I don't care). The poor guy is dying, he almost lost his wife to a demon, and now his daughter is being chained to a comet? Cas is smart enough to know that Jimmy would BEG to for his child to be left alone to live her life.
The diminishing of Castiel's angelic abilities is another interesting point of debate. Gabriel fell away from Heaven, has had nothing to do with God or his brothers or his true home for years, and he's still able to do everything we've seen him do. Castiel, on the other hand, has come back apparently demoted and apparently less powerful than he was before. Why the big difference?
My best guesses are that (1) archangels are more powerful to begin with and it may be easier for them to prevent their abilities from being taken away than someone on a "lower pay grade" like Cas, or (2) Heaven never even attempted to take away Gabe's abilities.
BabaOReilly, I hadn't thought of it like that, but yeah, there's every possibility that God, in the SPN universe, is also a big dick. I think there's also the possibility that he's neither a good guy nor a bad guy... that he might resemble the deistic idea of a god, an incredibly powerful being that created the world and then faded into the background. Well, he might be a kind of combination... he'd been involved (thousands of years ago) and now he's nowhere to be found. He's removed himself.
He'll probably pop up and Dean will scream "YOUR MYSTERIOUS WAYS BLOW!!! HOW CAN ALL OF THIS BE ACCORDING TO YOUR WILL???" and God will calmly reply "I haven't exerted my will over the earth for along time".
Continuing the Cas speculation (and I'm probably the only one who cares at this point): another reason why I don't think Castiel is evil - his vessel would've said something. What's the one thing all folks possessed by evil have said?
"I saw horrible things, I did horrible things, this monster inside of me is evil", etc etc. Jimmy said it was like being "chained to a comet", which I assume means "holy crap it's a bumpy ride", but he didn't come out screaming "THANK GOD I'M FREE FROM THAT VILE CREATURE".
Also... Castiel has killed angels right in front of Dean, Sam & Zachariah in order to save the boys. Normally killing angels would be a mark in the "evil" column, but since the angels were in fact trying to TORTURE the boys within an inch of death, Cas was doing a good thing.
I can get behind the "manipulative" accusation, though. When Castiel jumped into Jimmy's daughter, I'm fairly sure that his real intention was to prompt Jimmy to consent to vesselhood again (and "vesselhood" isn't a real word, but... I don't care). The poor guy is dying, he almost lost his wife to a demon, and now his daughter is being chained to a comet? Cas is smart enough to know that Jimmy would BEG to for his child to be left alone to live her life.
The diminishing of Castiel's angelic abilities is another interesting point of debate. Gabriel fell away from Heaven, has had nothing to do with God or his brothers or his true home for years, and he's still able to do everything we've seen him do. Castiel, on the other hand, has come back apparently demoted and apparently less powerful than he was before. Why the big difference?
My best guesses are that (1) archangels are more powerful to begin with and it may be easier for them to prevent their abilities from being taken away than someone on a "lower pay grade" like Cas, or (2) Heaven never even attempted to take away Gabe's abilities.
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Thanks. I could not think of his name. :lol: I didn't watch X-Files much, but I've seen him in other stuff.
No, absolutely not. Cas isn't making Dean do anything really. He's just there for support and helps them against all of the other angels. If Cas was manipulative, he wouldn't have let Dean talk him into going to that club where he went in the back with that girl. :lol: I think Cas is the opposite of Ruby. I think he's completely good where Ruby was completely evil and manipulative. I do think that Cas could be Dean's downfall, but not in the way that Ruby was Sam's. I think that Dean is very very protective of Cas (kind of like he is with Sam). We know that his protectiveness and love for Sam has been his downfall before and caused him to make some questionable decisions (like with the crossroads demon). I think it could be the same thing for Cas. Being on the road so much of his life, moving from town to town, never staying in one place for too long, Dean probably doesn't really have friends (which the exceptions of some of the hunters he sees once in a while and Bobby whom he sees more than the others), so Cas is probably the closest thing (excluding Sam) to a best friend that Dean has ever had. I do believe that Dean would die for Cas just as he would for Sam. I truly do believe that.
I think Cas is a better indication of what God's like than the meaner angels. Like it's been said, the other angels have lost their thinking. In God's absence, they've taken over and they aren't as forgiving. They're more desperate to shut Lucifer down for good, regardless of the fact that it could destroy the Earth.
Something I just thought of- Uriel was envious of the humans (as is Lucifer and probably more angels) because they felt that God cared more for the humans than he did for the angels. Um... isn't ENVY one of the 7 Deadly Sins? An angel displays one of the seven deadly sins? Perhaps that factored into Lucifer intially being exiled from Heaven?
By the way, does anyone know of a website that lists the names of all the angels? Like Castiel is the angel of thursdays.
Ginnna
Lab Technician
GNRfan, is this the list you're talking about? It's a pretty comprehensive list... but strangely it doesn't list Castiel!
And I think you're right, I think Dean would risk his life for Cas like he would for Sam. Again, that might be the shipper in me talking, but in the canon of the show you're right, he's the closest thing Dean's got to a best friend.
And I think you're right, I think Dean would risk his life for Cas like he would for Sam. Again, that might be the shipper in me talking, but in the canon of the show you're right, he's the closest thing Dean's got to a best friend.
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Is he? That's too funny! :lol: Wonder if they picked that on purpose? Actually, Castiel is the one angel name I haven't recognized so far.
Let's see...
John as God's vessel? I actually had that thought earlier, but forgot to mention it. I don't see why he couldn't be. Cruel to Sam and Dean? Maybe, but I doubt that'll be the deciding factor for God. S/he'll likely have other things to worry about at the time.
I honestly believe that the way the show is going to end is with both of the brother's dead or dying. Actually, that's kind of the way I hope it ends. *duck flying vegetables* I know, I know, it sounds awful, but it just seems to me that the best way for the show to end is with the Winchesters saving the world from the apocalypse, but not surviving themselves. It seems fitting, somehow.
Gina, thanks for the link. I think Cassiel is Castiel. I think it may be like Posideon/Neptune where the names are slightly different in different lores.
I actually hope the show ends more like Buffy did, with the main characters still alive (including Cas and Bobby and the Impala lol). If they killed the brothers off (especially Dean), I don't think I'd ever be able to watch any eps of the show ever again. The last Matrix movie ruined the first one for me. I can't bring myself to watch it because of that kind of ending in the last one. I don't want that to happen to Supernatural... so I really hope they don't end it that way.
Honestly though, when the show started, Dean was working on his own. John was elsewhere, Sam was at college. I could kind of see them ending the show the same way. Sam either going back to college (leaving Dean to fight any other evils on his own or with Cas ) or Sam dying (though I'd hate that). I really don't want a Xena type ending with this show though. Keep the brothers alive and Cas and Bobby and the Impala, but especially Cas and Dean and Sammy. :lol:
I think Cassiel is Castiel. I think it may be like Posideon/Neptune where the names are slightly different in different lores.I actually hope the show ends more like Buffy did, with the main characters still alive (including Cas and Bobby and the Impala lol). If they killed the brothers off (especially Dean), I don't think I'd ever be able to watch any eps of the show ever again. The last Matrix movie ruined the first one for me. I can't bring myself to watch it because of that kind of ending in the last one. I don't want that to happen to Supernatural... so I really hope they don't end it that way.
Honestly though, when the show started, Dean was working on his own. John was elsewhere, Sam was at college. I could kind of see them ending the show the same way. Sam either going back to college (leaving Dean to fight any other evils on his own or with Cas
) or Sam dying (though I'd hate that). I really don't want a Xena type ending with this show though. Keep the brothers alive and Cas and Bobby and the Impala, but especially Cas and Dean and Sammy. :lol:
Ginnna
Lab Technician
I think that's how it'll end, but I don't really want it to end like that. I enjoy the hero saving the day AND surviving. I'm not a big sucker for tragedy. I've been known to avoid certain movies and shows because I know they end tragically. I'm not sure I even wanna finish LOST because I think everything's just gonna get worse in the final season, more people dying, more people screwing themselves over, more convoluted nonsense, etc.
But... I'm invested. I'll finish. I'll finish SPN too. They probably will die. Cas too. Ironically, Bobby will most likely be the only one left... still stuck in his wheelchair, wishing he'd gone down in a blaze of hunter glory.
GNRfan said:Honestly though, when the show started, Dean was working on his own. John was elsewhere, Sam was at college. I could kind of see them ending the show the same way. Sam either going back to college (leaving Dean to fight any other evils on his own or with Cas
I like it. Maybe Dean could even settle down! That's what John wanted for Dean. "I want Sam to go to school, I want Dean to have a home..." But it probably won't happen.
Maybe God will thank Castiel for his service and assign him to be Dean's protection for the rest of Dean's life... and they can hunt together! *sighs happily* Sounds like a happy ending for them to me.
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If Kripke is as smart as I think he is, he won't kill the boys (or Cas) off in the end. Tapert is still getting flack from fans for killing off Xena. There was a huge backlash over that ending... and there would be even more so over Dean/Sam dying. At least I think so. Besides, like I said it would completely ruin the show for me and I'd never be able to watch it again knowing that it ended that way. So, I really hope it doesn't end that way.
Kind of like "Touched By An Angel" or "Highway To Heaven". :lol:
Kind of like "Touched By An Angel" or "Highway To Heaven". :lol:
_Hush_
Winchester Inc.
Nope, but it lists Cassiel. I'm pretty sure they're one and the same. Hebrew names and their English equivalent don't always match :shifty:
(warning, weird sentence construction ahead :wtf
And as for it being cruel to the boys to have their father be God's vessel , knowing Kripke, it won't matter much to him. Think of all the things they have been through. Sam actually died, so did Dean and he went to hell, they lost their father, Sam lost his girlfriend the same way his mother was killed etc.No human could ever bear what those boys have been through. I mean, cruelty is basically what this show is made of :lol:. So maybe only based on that, I'm rooting for John to be God's vessel
Plus, JDM = :adore:
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