Stop picking on the poor guy
- Thread starter John Walden
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HnStetlerfan
Pathologist
Yes, as far as we know, and unless TPTB write something explaining that something else happened, he did hit her. But she hit him back! And hard. And in the same eye, too! An eye for an eye. And Rick hasn't bothered her since. And he hasn't shown any other tendencies of violence toward anyone. Maybe all three of them need to sit down and have a conversation about what happened and clear the air.
arcadian7
Witness
Sadly, neither Rick nor Horatio think they really need professional help. Rick sometimes gets too big for his britches and Horatio can be ignorant when it comes to his mental well-being. He's too obsessive over helping everyone else that he forgets to help himself. Yelina did hit Rick back - but one thing is for certain, that without pro help, Rick will hit again - that's something that does need to be dealt with - and Horatio will not trust Rick for having those tendencies.
One thing I found totally peculiar was at the end of From the Grave when Rick followed Horatio to the church - when H went to confess his 'sins' again. What was Rick hoping to find out? Did he want more dirt on his adversary or was he genuinely concerned?
One thing I found totally peculiar was at the end of From the Grave when Rick followed Horatio to the church - when H went to confess his 'sins' again. What was Rick hoping to find out? Did he want more dirt on his adversary or was he genuinely concerned?
HnStetlerfan
Pathologist
You're right. I think this is what is standing in the way of them being friends. And yes, they do say that men who hit don't just do it one time and then quit. I think Rick either never hit her and something else happened, something more complicated, or he went and got help for his problem by himself. I mean without the dept. knowing. But look at the self-restraint Rick shows even when Calleigh is screaming at him (see eps "Stand Your Ground" and "Down to the Wire". Does this really seem like a guy who's a physical abuser?
Rick loves Horatio, so he likes to do things like that. And I think at times he's had a lot of feelings of conflict over this that have caused him to make some bad decisions like trying to get rid of Horatio in After the Fall and Under Suspicion. But he does love Horatio. If anyone doesn't see that he does after watching Ambush then, well, I guess maybe you never will, I don't know. There is a slash thread for stetler/horatio in the Shipper Central section of this forum. I've restarted that thread. Anyone interested is welcome to post there.
arcadian7
Witness
I forget the epi but Rick did say to Horatio that he took some time off - maybe he got the help he needed to face his problems. I firmly believe he did indeed hit Yelina - in an earlier epi, she showed up to work with a black eye and tried to give the excuse that she fell or bumped into something - Horatio instantly picked up on the warning signs of abuse - he's been there done it - and he's seen plenty to know. Worse off, he cares so deeply for Yelina that he would be even more concerned and I think he would have carried out his threat on Rick if he laid a hand on her again. Sometimes Horatio can be a scary guy because you know under that calm voice there is a tiger waiting to strike.:devil:
HnStetlerfan - I think there is if anything at all solely a respect of Stetler for Horatio. I will gently disagree with you :wtf: - and you are entitled to think there's love there - but these two men both have a job to do and both take it to heart - Horatio more so than Rick. I think Rick had to come to grips with the fact that he is in his job as IAB man and that's all there is to it. Horatio got the Lieutenant's job and that's all there is to that. Horatio's violent childhood has made him obsessive about helping people in need - especially when children are involved. Rick has demonstrated his jealousy of Horatio in that he feels he should have had the Lieutenant's position and Horatio has a stellar record for bringing down the bad guys - sometimes by bending the rules. I don't agree with the slash views of these characters - they are most definitely two stallions who go at each other whenever possible. As you state in the later episodes, Rick might have toned down a bit - perhaps because he went into therapy and he realized he can't be blaming Horatio for everything. Perhaps Stetler did a little growing up by facing his demons - something Horatio still needs to do. But, love - nope
Rick gaining respect for Horatio - absolutely yes. :thumbsup: Sorry talking slash isn't my cuppa and not how I see either one of these characters - especially my fiery red chestnut stallion... I think he respects Rick for the job he has to do, but he still doesn't care much for him as a human being - I don't think Horatio will ever let go of what Rick did to his damsel in distress Yelina - even though she certainly showed she can throw a good right hook...
HnStetlerfan - I think there is if anything at all solely a respect of Stetler for Horatio. I will gently disagree with you :wtf: - and you are entitled to think there's love there - but these two men both have a job to do and both take it to heart - Horatio more so than Rick. I think Rick had to come to grips with the fact that he is in his job as IAB man and that's all there is to it. Horatio got the Lieutenant's job and that's all there is to that. Horatio's violent childhood has made him obsessive about helping people in need - especially when children are involved. Rick has demonstrated his jealousy of Horatio in that he feels he should have had the Lieutenant's position and Horatio has a stellar record for bringing down the bad guys - sometimes by bending the rules. I don't agree with the slash views of these characters - they are most definitely two stallions who go at each other whenever possible. As you state in the later episodes, Rick might have toned down a bit - perhaps because he went into therapy and he realized he can't be blaming Horatio for everything. Perhaps Stetler did a little growing up by facing his demons - something Horatio still needs to do. But, love - nope
Rick gaining respect for Horatio - absolutely yes. :thumbsup: Sorry talking slash isn't my cuppa and not how I see either one of these characters - especially my fiery red chestnut stallion... I think he respects Rick for the job he has to do, but he still doesn't care much for him as a human being - I don't think Horatio will ever let go of what Rick did to his damsel in distress Yelina - even though she certainly showed she can throw a good right hook...HnStetlerfan
Pathologist
I forget the epi but Rick did say to Horatio that he took some time off - maybe he got the help he needed to face his problems. I firmly believe he did indeed hit Yelina - in an earlier epi, she showed up to work with a black eye and tried to give the excuse that she fell or bumped into something - Horatio instantly picked up on the warning signs of abuse - he's been there done it - and he's seen plenty to know. Worse off, he cares so deeply for Yelina that he would be even more concerned and I think he would have carried out his threat on Rick if he laid a hand on her again. Sometimes Horatio can be a scary guy because you know under that calm voice there is a tiger waiting to strike.:devil:
HnStetlerfan - I think there is if anything at all solely a respect of Stetler for Horatio. I will gently disagree with you :wtf: - and you are entitled to think there's love there - but these two men both have a job to do and both take it to heart - Horatio more so than Rick. I think Rick had to come to grips with the fact that he is in his job as IAB man and that's all there is to it. Horatio got the Lieutenant's job and that's all there is to that. Horatio's violent childhood has made him obsessive about helping people in need - especially when children are involved. Rick has demonstrated his jealousy of Horatio in that he feels he should have had the Lieutenant's position and Horatio has a stellar record for bringing down the bad guys - sometimes by bending the rules. I don't agree with the slash views of these characters - they are most definitely two stallions who go at each other whenever possible. As you state in the later episodes, Rick might have toned down a bit - perhaps because he went into therapy and he realized he can't be blaming Horatio for everything. Perhaps Stetler did a little growing up by facing his demons - something Horatio still needs to do. But, love - nope
Yes, I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree.
Your "fiery red chestnut stallion". It's funny but I think of them in horse terms, too. I think of Horatio as a proud Arabian stallion, chestnut in color, yes, and Rick as a Thoroughbred racehorse, dark brown or black.
HoratioStalker
CSI Level One
I'm so glad others have brought up the Batman connection - I was thinking on that for a while. CSI:M is definitely the comic book, splashy one of the three, and as time has evolved, you can see H becoming the Dark Knight. He watched his own father kill his mother, and I bet swore to avenge her death. He tried the legal route for many years but you can see him start to lose faith in the system when bad guys get out and don't end up being punished as they should. He loses the colors and starts dressing in black. H, like Batman, has a good deal of money from his inheritance that he has invested wisely, but doesn't seem to have the butler and the mansion. Then, to him, the last straw came when his wife's murderer was set free, extradited, and allowed to continue his ways. So, with Eric as his Robin, off to Rio it was and the final descent into the ways of vengeance. I can't remember the character's name, but Giancarlo Esposito's character knew just who to call when he needed the Mala Noche eradicated, and Julia made it happen. All that was missing was the searchlight in the sky with sunnies instead of a bat.
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arcadian7
Witness
Interesting comparison of H to Batman. I chatted with other fans elsewhere about the wearing of black by Horatio - Reason #1 - he's still in mourning for Marisol; Reason #2 - his black colored suits are a type of uniform. My mom used to work for the IRS and the agents there typically used particular colors as a type of uniform. Reason #3 - the wardrobe staff got lazy in dressing David - or the budget couldn't keep him in assorted colors. I really liked the earlier shows with the plethora of colors we saw him in. Drat... bring some color to poor Horatio!
One thing we are seeing with Horatio is a diversion from his 'follow the letter of the law' stance. Although he is all about the rules, he is indeed tweaking them and it's easy to understand why. Doesn't make it right, but hey - so many people applauded Charlie Bronson's vigillante roles.
One thing we are seeing with Horatio is a diversion from his 'follow the letter of the law' stance. Although he is all about the rules, he is indeed tweaking them and it's easy to understand why. Doesn't make it right, but hey - so many people applauded Charlie Bronson's vigillante roles.
arcadian7
Witness
Horatio does care about his victims because he was a victim himself. He can totally relate to the helpless feeling. Check out Skeletons - what an episode! You get a real insider look at how this man's childhood affected him. If it makes him tweak the law a bit, if he isn't going too far and it brings totally guilty people to justice, he's got me cheering in his corner. That's why I feel SO BAD when people knock this character and make fun of him. Those people that poke fun at Horatio haven't sat down to truly examine this character. I get so tired of saying he's more than the sideways stance, the sunglasses, and low voice. He's multifaceted with many excellent traits.
So glad to hear there are other Horatio fans!! Sometimes I feel like I'm all alone trying to defend my hero!:thumbsup:
So glad to hear there are other Horatio fans!! Sometimes I feel like I'm all alone trying to defend my hero!:thumbsup:
Mrs. Darcy1234
Hit and Run
I know, Horatio Caine is a caring person, who takes care of him team and his family. David Carsuo has done a fine job at getting people to see the emotion in every case he handles. I like the show and I like Horatio Caine, I like the little things he does(Sunglasses, low voice and sideways stances), that makes the chracter. I think if people don't like it, they should not watch it.
Half
CSI Level Two
I'm not the guy's biggest fan, but I'm not going to trash him. Why? Because people trash Sara Sidle on CSI boards, and I like her, so I'm not going to stoop to that level just because I don't like a character.
I don't exactly understand his sunglasses and his dramatic-sounding pauses, but that's the way he is. I agree, though. If you don't like it... don't watch it.
I don't exactly understand his sunglasses and his dramatic-sounding pauses, but that's the way he is. I agree, though. If you don't like it... don't watch it.
cainesugar
Coroner
I've just stumbled upon this thread and would like to make a few points here- everything completely IMO. For me, season one Horatio provided a new kind of character as far as the CSI series goes- he was more hands on, had a better connection with people, and more fun to watch than Grissom of CSI. This isn't to say that I don't like Grissom- I love him- but Horatio was like a breath of fresh air out of the textbooks and bug cages. I'll never forget when Jim Brass walked into Grissom's lab in 'Cross-Jurisdictions' and said 'Miami's pulling cars out of canals and making arrests, and you guys are reading textbooks?' It drew the line between the two characters, and personally, I loved watching Horatio because he was different. He was somehow able to be intimidating with a gun in his hand, and yet could turn around and give a victim's child a hug and make her feel safe in his arms.
I still do like Horatio, and believe me, I acknowledge the fact that the guy's been through hell and back twice, but I don't think he should have had to go through half of what he did in the first place. It's not that I wish he hadn't changed, it's that I wish he wouldn't have gone through what he did to get to where he is now. No one deserves to have all that crap happen to them, especially someone who works so hard for the innocent. He emphasized justice and the system, and how, even though it wasn't perfect- and it isn't, but it's still the law that we all have to follow- that it was the law. I can't remember a time that Horatio acted unjustly before season five, and he began to change in season four. My problem with Horatio's lawbreaking is that it's all hypocritical- he spent his life following the system and fighting for it, and then he tracks down a guy who really, really pissed him off- which I can 100% understand, he had a right to be angry, but not to go in search of him in order to kill him- and stabs him.
Now, I agree that the law isn't always what's actually right and fair, but think of it this way- if we were to say that 'equal punishment' administered by the common man is fair and just, then shouldn't we all just get our butts off the computer and go beat up that kid who picked on us in school, even if he leaves us alone now? Or, better yet, go kill OJ, say, because of what he did (and wasn't even proven of)? Is it really up to us to seek vengeance on criminals? I think it shouldn't be. And, while Horatio is a cop, his job is to put those who break the law behind bars, not give his own input into how they should be handled. He's gone against everything he's preached, and, while change is natural, I wish he could somehow get back to the old H, who spent time with his team and didn't carry the weight of the world on his shoulders, and administer this so-called 'justice' at his own will.
I'm not picking on him, because I completely understand why he's become so withdrawn and solitary, and I don't know why he hasn't killed himself already, but I hate what the writers have done to his character. When I criticize his character, it doesn't mean I don't acknowledge how hard his life has been, it means I hate how much crap he's had to go through. It's terrible, IMO, that the writers felt he needed more sympathy and dumped everything on him. I think a lot of people, probably most here, liked him just the way he was.
I still do like Horatio, and believe me, I acknowledge the fact that the guy's been through hell and back twice, but I don't think he should have had to go through half of what he did in the first place. It's not that I wish he hadn't changed, it's that I wish he wouldn't have gone through what he did to get to where he is now. No one deserves to have all that crap happen to them, especially someone who works so hard for the innocent. He emphasized justice and the system, and how, even though it wasn't perfect- and it isn't, but it's still the law that we all have to follow- that it was the law. I can't remember a time that Horatio acted unjustly before season five, and he began to change in season four. My problem with Horatio's lawbreaking is that it's all hypocritical- he spent his life following the system and fighting for it, and then he tracks down a guy who really, really pissed him off- which I can 100% understand, he had a right to be angry, but not to go in search of him in order to kill him- and stabs him.
Now, I agree that the law isn't always what's actually right and fair, but think of it this way- if we were to say that 'equal punishment' administered by the common man is fair and just, then shouldn't we all just get our butts off the computer and go beat up that kid who picked on us in school, even if he leaves us alone now? Or, better yet, go kill OJ, say, because of what he did (and wasn't even proven of)? Is it really up to us to seek vengeance on criminals? I think it shouldn't be. And, while Horatio is a cop, his job is to put those who break the law behind bars, not give his own input into how they should be handled. He's gone against everything he's preached, and, while change is natural, I wish he could somehow get back to the old H, who spent time with his team and didn't carry the weight of the world on his shoulders, and administer this so-called 'justice' at his own will.
I'm not picking on him, because I completely understand why he's become so withdrawn and solitary, and I don't know why he hasn't killed himself already, but I hate what the writers have done to his character. When I criticize his character, it doesn't mean I don't acknowledge how hard his life has been, it means I hate how much crap he's had to go through. It's terrible, IMO, that the writers felt he needed more sympathy and dumped everything on him. I think a lot of people, probably most here, liked him just the way he was.
That's exactly why he does it. He devoted his life to his job ... protecting the innocent, holding up justice. But that justice failed him (once), exactly in this one moment he was vulnerable the most. He was (or is) full of anger and sorrow. A powerful and dangerous mix. And than Riaz is provoking him even more.
Look at H's face, when he stabbed Riaz. H certainly didn't want it to end like this. But at this moment he had no choice. I'm talking about the last few seconds, not the whole fight. The fight was a set up.
Remember waht H said to Ray Jr, whwn trhe boy was aiming at the drug lord? H knew that he crossed the line and that he probably would never get back. He knows that he is doomed and he certainly doesn't want other people (especially the ones he cares about) to make the same mistake.
Since then he tries to do what he can to protect people. That is probably the reason he became a LEO in first place. And it's hard if you almost lost all faith in something you once were so devoted to.
H is getting darker and darker and is getting deeper into that "black hole" he maybe can never get out of again. It almost seems that he is destroying himself bit by bit through his actions. (and it will continue probably in the future)
Taking justice into our own hands is illegal. that's for sure. Buts that IMO no reason to not show it on TV or movies. As long as the consequences emotional and considering the law are shown and a fitting rating is applied it could be fine. As you can see, it gives people at last something to think about
Considering H not the last word is spoken, thats why I think that it would not end well with him.
maybe I'm almost alone with my opinion, but everytime I watch S1 I keep thinking, why I exactly got hooked on the show. I liked S2 so much better. It's probably even the best season.
The later Seasons are so much different, but not necessarily bad. the emphasis just shifted. Like it or not.