He was? He wasn't really, was he? I didn't think he was too grown up, there were a lot of his ramblings; it was almost a bit too much. His character was "the same old, same old" and at one point a joke gets lame and it's not funny anymore.
Part of the problem could have been that he wasn't in every episode anymore.
Well, I thought he was different than usual in the first few episodes, especially the way he behaved with Haylen. Later he was the same old, same old again, like you said. Usually I love Adam, even if not all jokes work and he sometimes seems only to be the jester of the lab, but he´s a fun character to enjoy.
Yes, they could have announced HB in the show, kind of Mac telling the others that they´ll soon get a new collegue. With SW, she probably has to be there from the beginning, because it´s five months later and Stella left at some point during these months.
Yes, I agree, actually I thought SH´s financial collapse was part and beginning of his arc, but as often, it went to nowhere.
Agree, I´m pretty sure Shane Casey´s return wasn´t in their scripts when they started their plans for S6. But when the ratings began to drop they had to think about something spectacular, so they came up with his comeback.
Yes, but obviously that wasn´t to deter TPTB
to bring in another love interest.
I agree. Could have been a great opportunity to show more of his character. Being offered the job but maybe even declining.
Agree, that would have been a great episode for him, for once only or mostly about him.
But then again, what about the love interest he was supposed to get in season 6? That never happened.
As I said, HH talked a lot about it as if it was sure to happen, but then it never happened- but why not? Maybe they discuss with the actors, but have the final say.
Exactly, "RND" is a very good example of how personal stuff of the characters can be involved in cases, without necessarily being a love interest. Another one is Danny and what he went through after the little boy Ruben was shot. This love interest stuff only seems like an alibi, as if the writers want to show: look, even night and day working detectives have a private life and need love.
Exactly. Besides, they gave Stella Frankie and Drew then they killed off the professor.
I agree, she only got the crappy guys and the only man having a personal meaning to her got killed. So why not give her a new love interest, but this time a good guy, why again Mac got a possible love interest, once more a Mrs. Nice Woman?
I don´t really think Aubrey took Stella´s place, it would have only been a matter of adding nice scenes with Stella and Mac, too, which they managed to do when he was with Peyton. This time they either seemed to lazy to do so or decided to change the direction into less Mac/Stella-closeness, though PV claimed the opposite.
I agree, S6 was only about Mac the hero.
You think? I don't know. Seems like an odd train of thoughts... Okay... never mind
Maybe
, but I just think when they decided to kill Angell, they perhaps got the idea to follow this direction and do another shoot out, this time with the whole team as cliffhanger.
I'm sort of glad they didn't do what they announced for Stella, that she was going to be more daring or whatever it was they said. I mean, how could Stella have been more daring?
But I agree, it would have been very interesting to pick up where they had left of. It was sort of like GFD, they had so many things: Danny's condition, Flack's loss, Stella, too, in a way because she just lost the professor and then weeks later another friend... the general impact of one of theirs being shot to everyone and being shot at themselves. But didn't have the time to deal with all of them properly because that would have taken away from the cases completely. They should have gone with less and should have continued to develop the characters in a more subtle way.
Well, the only more daring and spontaneous thing Stella did was right at the beginning the night with Adam. But that was all and like you I couldn´t really imagine what they meant with it that she would sort live for the moment from now on, just do whatever she feels like to do, PV said that Stella is kind of opposite to Hawkes who invested money. So was Stella spending all her salary every month up to the very last cent unlike Hawkes? Well, OK, but that´s not too interesting for a story
. I don´t know, but I agree with you that Stella was already a free spirit who accepted little boundaries.
I agree, I was surprised how little Mac/Stella there was going on after such a traumatizing event, just that one time that she told him off. Absolutely, there was too much going on at the same time with the characters, plus having the time shifted again made it even more difficult to stuff it all into 45 mins, plus the cases. They should have concentrated on one or two characters, those who were affected the most: Danny and Flack; Danny physically and Flack psychologically, because he was mourning Angell and had to face with almost being shot himself. Stella surely suffered too, but since she had a lot of presence in S5, it would have been OK to focus on Danny and Flack and they could have written it the way that the two help and build each other up. So that could have happened in, say, half of the season and not a rushed thing, plus there´d been enough space for the cases.
Yes, well, you know what they say about too many cooks...
Yes, unfortunately this saying doesn´t reach TPTB.
Who knows what they wanted. But even if she meant "certain clauses" in a more general way, it was definitely more than the money issue that made her leave.
I would think that she didn't want to appear for half the season or whatever because that wouldn't have ended things for good but she'd have hung in-between, sort of. However, one or two episodes wouldn't have taken long and she'd be done with it by now or next weeks and would have been free for new projects. So, itit's still odd that she's not doing it.
Yes, "certain clauses" suggests more than money issues, it seemed more complicated and finally not possible to be dissolved.
Exactly, shooting one or two episodes wouldn´t have cost her too much time and energy and probably wouldn´t interfere with possible new projects. So unless she will reveal more, we will never know why she declined to do so.
Stella did that all the time (when they let her...) and I would have found it a bit... unnatural if all of a sudden it would have been Peyton. He didn't know Peyton as well and in a way he had a closer relationship with Stella than with her. It would take time for him to open up to Peyton as much as he does to Stella because he's just a character who doesn't trust easily and didn't even open up to Stella with everything - unless she pried it carefully out of him. But that takes skill and Peyton didn't come over as the most empathetic and sensitive woman...
Well, if Mac had stayed together with Peyton for longer, he surely would have opened up to her at some point, maybe in a different way than he did with Stella, because with Stella he knew that´s a friendship for life, he could trust her in every way, because it wasn´t a relationship that could end some day, unless they´d have a really bad fall out, which was very unlikely as they even managed to argue well without hurting each other badly :lol:. Stella was in advantage to know him much longer and better than Peyton. She would have this advantage with every woman that enters Mac´s life, but that´s generally the advantage if two people "only" are friends, but not in a romance. And that´s what made it so great between Stella and Mac, I don´t think it would have been if they had had a relationship.
Horatio I find plain annoying most of the time. Mac's different, he's not annoying he's just too good to be to true in every sense of the way. He's got a hero complex.
Yes, Horatio is awful, while I can like Mac when he has his human moments and is not too much the striving hero.
I didn't watch S1 that often... but I guess it's just a natural thing to do because you do have difficulties as a woman in a men's world and when I was in the states a year ago I watched a TV show in which a woman was the first female officer in a small town in Indiana. That was in 2009... and Indiana is, as far as I know, not too conservative...
As I said, I think they needed S1 to become familiar with their characters, see the direction they were heading.
Some managed to make something out of their character better than others, though I think Cahill did a good job with Flack as well and I also think that CG was able to take Danny somewhere in S2 and 3. Danny's an interesting character but the writers made it difficult for him. I didn't like that he had the affair with Rikki because I liked Danny and Lindsay in S3, however, I started to dislike them after they were put back together by the writers for the baby because something just didn't feel right anymore about it. It felt acted and not natural.
But it seems MK had the fewest difficulties identifying with her character.
S1 was generally still simpler than the following seasons as there were the four CSIs and Hawkes, a bit interaction but still the personal things were in the background and the cases in the foreground and sometimes I wished back this simplicity, though with the characters already developed
. You´re probably right and Stella was still trying to succeed as a woman in a men´s world where it seems still unusual for a woman to have a leading or co-leading position in this profession.
I agree, some characters had a good development, especially Flack, but Danny, too. I was never sure if it´s a good idea to bring him and Lindsay together, I found her not the right one for him
. The affair with Rikki may have been silly, but I liked that they showed the weak side of Danny and that maybe he still wasn´t sure that he wanted a relationship with Lindsay. With them coming together again, that was probably improvised a lot due to AB´s pregnancy, they had two options: either they made them a family, or they made it complicated with Lindsay being a single mother and Danny the part time-Daddy, they chose for former, maybe because it would be too time consuming to bring such complex family stuff into a short episode.
I agree, MK seemed to have grown fastest into her character.
It's tasteful, at least they're not killing her off. It's just not a logical train of thought for Stella.
Yeah, it´s not tasteless at least, and MK perhaps doesn´t expect logic anyway
.
But then, given the fans general... atmosphere or whatever they could have forseen where the triangle would lead to and they still did it...
They seem to have a problem to admit errors and accept fans´opinions.
I think MK won't reveal whatever it was at the moment (& CBS probably's not interested) and by the time things have settled enough, no one will be interested anymore. So it won't be asked which is why I think we'll never know.
I agree, MK will probably keep it to herself and CBS won´t talk anyway unless they´re asked and then it will be just phrases. So it will remain a mystery what exactly happened.
Which makes me curious as to what he really thought about the MK deal. I quite liked what he was saying in that fancast article. I liked that a lot more than his promoting the show on twitter. It said a lot more without saying anything directly. Makes him human and makes him have feelings.
Well, I don´t know how much he knew about it, if they talked in private about contract things and which clauses their individual contracts have. But they seem to be quite good friends, so it shouldn´t be surprising that he feels sorry that she leaves. I think he can be pretty human when he´s just a private man
.
Oh, now why that smilie face?
Well, it sounds like the season premier is supposed to be Jo's first case, so... Stella might not have been gone for that long. Question is why jump ahead 5 months then? In any case, they still can explain to Jo why she's replacing Stella. I'd love to see that bring out emotions for Mac, showing how much Stella meant to him. That would pay great respect to Stella/MK.
That´s for the writers in case they pop up here
.
Hm, must read the spoiler again, I thought Jo is already there for a while and Stella is already gone for a while, that all happened during these five months since the Casey case. But I like it that they seem to write in a sort of rivalry between Mac and Jo, they are collegues for now, but still not friends, if ever. So like you said it should be interesting to see his emotional reactions in case Jo asks him about Stella and why she left and what kind of person she was.
However, in a more general way I think it's easier for writers to deal with the characters as they always have dealt with them. It's a comfort zone they're in and developing a character according to a profile isn't the easiest thing to do.
I agree, it´s generally not always easy to develop a character or deal with it, especially when the character isn´t present anymore. They must try to make Stella present for a moment in the dialogues of the team.
Yes but this is just so wrong because they depend on the people who critisize. It's like when athletes refuse to give autographs. There sometimes may be times when the timing isn't right but in general, they wouldn't earn the money and be as popular without the fans they're refusing to give autographs to and it seems like people in those positions like to forget that.
The other problem is that there're always people who'll just run after whatever and don't see the power they have and don't think critically about something they adore.
Yes, every artist, every artistic or sport profession depend on their audience; they support them with empathy and money, so the fans´opinions should never be dismissed, because then they might turn their backs on the artists. With TV shows it´s the ratings that are a measure wether the fans are happy or not. The big studio or TV bosses just count the viewers, but they don´t really listen to critics or take it as inspiration to improve quality. Their obvious reaction to dropping ratings is to stop a show or move it to another time slot, but listening to fans´reactions would be like having to get down from their thrown and descend to the ordinary people.
Should I answer or was that a rhethorical question?
I leave the choice to you
.
Lot's of mysteries on the show lately; maybe they should make it a mystery show instead of a crime drama
Well, I think there were a few basics between the characters they shouldn't have messed with and one is the dynamic between Mac and Stella but also the dynamic between Stella and the rest of the team. Danny and Flack's dynamic as well because they were great with each other too. You can keep all that and still vary.
But there must be a reason why, IIRC, Criminal Justice, the episode after Second Chances, had the highest rating of the season...
:lol: Yes, last season was rather a mystery show than a crime show, why not change the genre? I agree, they´ve messed up most of the dynamics between the different characters, especially Mac and Stella and Danny and Flack.
Well, the reason why is that it was simply the best episode of the season
, well IMO anyway; it was a great case, well thought out, coherent, great team spirit, it was almost perfect, so I don´t really understand why that one lost after the half hour point, while I understand it with a lot of the other episodes: they were often so bad or boring that people switched off or zapped away. And I agree, the producers seem ignorant about such statistics or why are they not doing something to improve it?
The time line was confusing anyway. With everything Stella was supposed to have done and having known Mac for that long... quite a tight schedule.
I guess it all comes back to the testing of the characters and maybe they realized Stella needs to be a bit more authoritarian.
Yes, given that she was born in 74 or 75, as we learnt in GfD, she couldn´t really have worked already for so long, she would have still been at the Police Academy 11 years ago, or so I think. Yes, if S1 was still a testing phase, they did well to realize that Stella needed a bit more authority.
I think it could also have to do with the actor; men often have difficulties with emotions so maybe it was difficult for GS to act in such a way?
With Danny I think Mac was good because it was sort of a mentor/father-son relationship and I think that's Mac's thing. But anything that goes beyond that and caring on a same emotional level, that was a bit too much for Mac. Mac's caring but he's not showing it that much on an emotional outward level.
Yes, maybe GS is a kind of man who isn´t very emotional in private, so maybe he finds it difficult to give Mac an emotional aspect.
Exactly. And that she was in need of some emotion showed that (ridiculous) one-night-stand.
However, I didn't feel like Stella wasn't approaching her colleagues, I felt like they were all separated from one another. Like everyone was sticking to themselves. Until Aubrey came along. Then things got messy.
Yes, but it wasn´t really that kind of emotion she would have needed, such a short lived, meaningless one-night stand. Maybe it was meant to be some sort of desperate clinging to each other when they both didn´t want to be alone after that shoot out.
Well, it occured to me especially with Stella that she seemed so detached and less approachable and less approaching, but I guess you´re right and they were all in general seperated from each other in a strange way, there was no closeness for most of the time. So adding Aubrey didn´t help changing this, or better it stopped things getting better again between Mac and Stella
Yes but she still confided in Stella. So while her baby was her major concern, she trusted Stella enough. Not so sure if it had been anyone had Stella not been trusted with the safety issue. It didn't sound to me like that because Lindsay's explanation was pretty obvious and see-through.
Yes, but she trusted Stella just as much as she had to, if you know what I mean, maybe it´s just me, but I really think she wouldn´t have confided in Stella at all, if she hadn´t had to do so because of the safety issue.
Never considered Stella and Lindsay good friend material.
Only for a short while in S3, but it never worked out and Lindsay is so much different to Stella.
"If only" sounds like a term that was invented for CSI NY
Indeed
.
Yes, but still not logic. No matter how noble. Still very easy for them. But there's so much they didn't consider. It's not just death which has an impact on others, such things can have an impact as well and people can also feel abandoned. And Stella is a very emotional person and even though she's independent she also needs emotional reassurance and stability. She doesn't have parents she could always count on but she had Mac and also Flack.
Yes, I agree, logical in no way. If it had been closer to NY, then OK, but not that far away from all the people that mean so much to her. I don´t think she would put her career above having her friends close to her. The NY lab was her home from home, she wouldn´t give up that so easily just because she could become the boss of another lab.