Stella/Melina #7 'Cause everything sounds better in Greek

Discussion in 'CSI: New York' started by Ghawazee, Aug 3, 2009.


Choose New Stellarina Thread!

Poll closed Aug 10, 2009.
  1. Stella/Melina #7: 'Cause even Athene and Aphrodite worship her.

    2 vote(s)
  2. Stella/Melina #7: The perfect combination of brains, looks, and personality.

    2 vote(s)
  3. Stella/Melina #7: a goddess came down to earth !

    8 vote(s)
  4. Stella/Melina #7:Athene in her mortal form.

    0 vote(s)
  5. Stella/Melina #7: Zeus' gift to Hollywood.

    0 vote(s)
  6. Stella/Melina#7 'Cause she is the angel that enlighten our hearts

    0 vote(s)
  7. Stella/Melina #7 'Cause everything sounds better in Greek

    11 vote(s)
  8. Stella/Melina #7: Because she´s the Greek Goddess of Crimonology

    1 vote(s)
  9. Stella/Melina #7Because she´s the heart and soul of the CSI-team

    2 vote(s)
  10. Stella/Melina#7 Because Lady Liberty speaks in Greek!

    6 vote(s)
  11. Stella/Melina#7 Because she is the light and soul of NY Lab

    0 vote(s)
  12. Stella/kelina#7 Because we all love Rambo Stella

    1 vote(s)
  1. Top41

    Top41 Administrator Administrator Moderator Premium Member

    Mar 5, 2003
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    I am referring to you, not Sarah.

    Disagreeing with you, or pointing out that Charlie Sheen's salary has no correlation to the pay cut Melina was initially asked to take is not insulting you or pointing out your flaws. It's presenting a counter argument.

    You seem to have a problem with a few posters here, yes. Have you stopped to think maybe the problem might have something to do with you, and your attitude towards those who disagree with you?

    It's not your comments about Charlie Sheen and you know it. Stop skirting the issue. It's these comments to Sarah that were out of line:


    It's enough. Enough of the condescension and attitude. I just had this same discussion with you last week in the spoiler thread.

    No, it's not. I think people are generally trying to say they don't see the correlation between the two. You are entitled to your belief that they're linked, but you can't get nasty when people offer opinions or valid factual evidence to the contrary.

    Let's get back on topic, please. Lori, further discussion of this warning should go to PM.
  2. Lori K.

    Lori K. Pathologist

    Jul 26, 2008
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    And I admit I am not sure, so where does one find the "correct" answer to this question? So what you say it is like PV and others?
    So you are saying it depends on how TPTB of the individual shows choose to spend there budget? Like Edna and the like getting the big bucks!:lol:
    Thankyou for clearing things up in a respectful manor:). Is there somewhere I can go to get the facts so as to have the correct information without the speculation?
    I still dont care for Charlie Sheen though.:)
  3. Andromeda

    Andromeda Police Officer

    Mar 29, 2009
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    True. That´s why I had also problems with the way Adam seemed to have changed- suddenly he was grown up and self-confident, as if the night with Stella had done this :D. Or was it his fear that Haylen might want to grab his job that gave him the guts to show off? Later on he was more or less his old self again, which was illogical, I mean how can someone change back, that´s like a reverse development.
    Yes, the announced personal stuff never happened or wasn´t worth the effort: Danny was soon well again, Flack soon stopped mourning Angell, etc..

    I agree, in the end it´s always got to do with money, in whatever way.

    Yes, two new women in one season- that was too confusing for me :D. They should have made Haylen a nicer character, at least in the beginning, so people wouldn´t have dismissed her that much. Right after Angell´s death she seemed rather like an unwanted intruder than a new lab member.

    Since they originally wanted Haylen as the new recurring character, Aubrey probably wasn´t in their heads at all. But when Haylen was sent off, they could have come up with e. g. Hawkes´ love interest as they had planned originally to do so. But instead they came up with a possible new love interest for Mac. How original :rolleyes:.
    Yes, well, Haylen´s story wasn´t that unfinished, she never really had any :D. But why of all she was interesting for the FBI, that´s another secret since she was a beginner as a lab technician; if at all they should have been interested in Adam.

    :lol: maybe you´re right, so then she should go and write for the Twilight movies.

    Yes, they probably discuss ideas for stories at the roundtable and some make it on the screen and some don´t for whatever reason. But with the Hawkes-story they must have had already more precise ideas as HH talked a lot of how Sheldon´s going to have a lot of stuff in S6, including a love interest. I don´t think he would have said that if the ideas still had been rather vague.
    I don´t know either, but I suppose these love interests is what they mean with "more personal character stuff" in the show, they seem to define personal as a matter of love interest, as if there can´t be any other personal things in a character´s life.
    I fully agree, that would have been a good idea, and why not make Mac fall for a bad woman for once when they let Stella fall for the bad guy Frankie? It could have made him more human to show a weaker side of him and that he´s not that cool and perfect as he always seems or pretends to be.
    Aubrey just didn´t seem to have any other purpose in the show than to be nice to Mac and make him smile more often than he usually does :p.

    I think it wasn´t planned that way, though Angell herself wasn´t the cliffhanger, I agree, but her being shot probably brought up the idea for a shoot out. Well, I think I know what you mean ;), in the first episodes of S6 they were trying to show the impacts and aftermaths of the shoot out, it seemed to have changed everybody, even if already some time had passed. But then they were again inconsequent in that that they were not pursuing the stories. As I said, Danny´s healing happened very fast, Flack soon behaved normal again after Mac told him off and Stella was more herself again, too. They should have had the guts to begin S6 right where S5 ended and not once more jump in time.
    Well, sometimes it seemed as if the writers were disagreeing with each other, like everybody wanted to have their ideas written in and the result was a sort of awful stew :D.

    Well, yes, they should really be stupid to want her to leave, so at least here they came to an agreement.
    Hm, maybe they offered MK some similar arrangement, but she declined for whatever reason, I suppose it´s really got to do with these other clauses of her contract that they wanted to discuss with her. Whatever they were and in whatever way they wanted to change them, it was obviously unsatisfying for Melina.
    Yes, I think CBS didn´t get the point as to what was really important to MK; they probably thought it´s enough to take back the pay cut to make her stay, but they didn´t get it that there was more to it.

    I agree. Mac was just Mac as usual, Peyton didn´t bring out a softer side of him. The friendship with Stella grew deeper instead, like when she confided in him about her fear of being HIV-infected and he told her he´d be there for her- here he showed a softer side of him.
    Yes, true, men often act differently than women, but still that doesn´t have to mean that guys like Mac or Horatio have to put on steel and concrete mimics as if they can´t move their face muscles :lol:. In S1 MK acted a bit similar, she had also this touch of steel in her face pretty often, as if she wanted to prove that Stella can be as tough as a guy. I found that stupid and didn´t like her much then. But thankfully she grew with her character and developed her to a versatile personality.

    Right, I re-read it; well, I´d be curious to know how tasteful she finds the idea of sending Stella to her own lab in NO :D.
    Yeah, I agree, seems that wasn´t a reason why she didn´t come back for a goodbye episode. Hm, I don´t really think they ever planned to kill her off, they must have foreseen that this would have caused a massive protest of the fans.
    Well, unless CBS or MK reveal more, we´ll never know ;).
    Agree, that she uses this word "taste" says a lot; she seems to have had her doubts of the writers´ taste in the past season :lol:.

    Though he´s still involved in more stuff than his collegues, but it´s true, the execs are above him, e. g. Vaugier said in an interview at the time of her leaving that he still didn´t know that she is getting written out, even killed and that he´ll be upset when he´ll find out. So he doesn´t have influence on things like that.

    Yes, of course it was easier to write Aiden out with Vanessa still staying to give it a proper ending.
    Now with Stella they must invent dialogues to tell the audience what happened in the past five months, when exactly Stella left and especially why; they´ll have to talk about someone who isn´t there anymore, but THEY know why and so they wouldn´t necessarily have to talk about it much anymore since we can assume they did this a lot when it happened that Stella went away. So these dialogues must be woven into the show in a plausible way, but without being too detailed, like you said, then the discussions would go on. It´s not that easy, but good writers should manage this :p.

    Totally agree, why else would there be so many shows on TV other than to distract us from real life ;)?

    The higher the rank the less criticism they accept and the execs are the ones with the money and therefore mostly immune to criticism. It´s just "well, we pay for this, so we want this and that and most of all high ratings". Of course, they won´t take the blame if things go wrong.

    Yep, that´s true ;).

    Well, probably the combination of the two.

    Yes, it was something for everybody and then they took this away from us all- how stupid can one be? It was a safe thing, they could have written the crappiest stories ever, as long as they had kept these special chemistry between the two, they could have gotten away with it- well, at least mostly :lol:. But they wrote crappy stories plus destroyed these chemistry, so it serves them right to end on Friday nights with poorer ratings.
    The triangle is particular PV´s mystery :D.

    Yes, Stella always seemed higher in the ranking than Danny and the others, already more experienced and longer in the job, but still not that long as Mac, though they had already worked together for 11 years. That´s quite long for Mac still being so bossy in S1, mentor or not ;). But maybe you´re right and S1 was mostly for defining their roles.

    Very much and that was very unusual and one could only assume that it had to do with the shoot out. Yes, she had more interactions with Mac, but in most of the episodes it wasn´t in the same vibe as in the previous seasons.
    I fully agree, Mac did what usually always was Stella´s "job": being the caring one for the others, which didn´t come over too convincing, which is not to say that Mac isn´t usually a caring man, but he is different in his ways compared to Stella. That´s why it didn´t work very well.
    And why Stella suddenly had troubles to approach her collegues directly, is another mystery; after such a traumatizing event like this shoot out I´d have assumed she´d have been even more emotional toward them than before.

    :lol: and of course Stella does not hesitate to come with him, because he makes her realize where her true home is: in the lap of the NY lab family :D.

    Well, yes, maybe it wasn´t due to them thinking out a complex and distant sort- of- but- not really-friendship between Lindsay and Stella, but rather that they forgot about it. But in S5 they didn´t really bring it back, anyway it didn´t feel like that to me. More than indirectly letting Stella know that she is pregnant, Lindsay´s concern was rather the safety of her unborn baby. If Stella hadn´t been the one responsible for these safety questions, Lindsay wouldn´t have told her anything, I´m pretty sure of that. For her it was just to approach that person that was administrating the safety stuff.

    Well, maybe that was the reason for her to be evasive to Stella, but still I think if they had been great friends, she´d have talked to Stella about it all and and confided in her about how she feels.

    Not if you don´t want to :D.

    Yes, could have, if only......:D.

    Well, if he´s clever he won´t hesitate to sack her :p.

    They probably only thought this was the "noble" exit for Stella :rolleyes:.
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2010
  4. Maya316

    Maya316 Lab Technician

    Jun 7, 2009
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    To be fair, I think 2 mil an episode is a ludicrous salary too, compared to what other leads of better shows make :lol: I don't know much about showbiz -- little to zero, in fact, and what I do know I've kind of pieced together randomly from message boards, entertainment rags, hearsay, Wikipedia, and what I see on the shows myself.

    But yes, I think most of the money decisions for individual shows come from the shows' PTB, and how they spend the budget CBS gives them. At the very least, their decisions influence how much CBS gives them (and what CBS decides it should spend money on).

    In CSI:NY's case, lately I think they've been spending most of their budget on the technology and big-name actors, over characters. Ie, it wasn't always such a flashy high-tech show, but has become more of one in recent years, maybe to give them an edge over all the other crime dramas on TV. Yet they cited "budget problems" for letting EV go (and since she still makes guest appearances on 2.5 Men, I've always assumed that this wasn't CBS's decision so much as it was NY's PTB). Also for reducing Adam's, Lindsay's and Sid's appearances, although lots of shows did this same thing, so that was probably 'cause of the economic crisis.

    With 2.5 Men, it has very few sets and good effects even by comedy-show standards, so I'd imagine most of their budget goes toward the main actors.

    I'm less sure of how it works for regular-actors: everything mentioned about the CBS actors who left implies they were dealing directly with CBS's executives, and I don't think it's possible to find out the true-facts unless you're there (because they always seem to cover these things up). But in the case of Adam R. last year, it's clear sometimes the execs make decisions TPTB don't agree with.

    Maybe main-actors are a third factor separate from both TPTBs and CBS. But ultimately, CBS is paying for the whole show to make money off of it. So any decisions they make on the actors are probably in terms of the whole show's budget, and what they think they have to pay for, to make the show work.

    CS's salary is huge -- not to keep him, but to keep 2.5 Men. CS arguably makes 2.5 Men, and 2.5 M is bringing huge ratings. Who knows what they're paying his costars, but I'd think it'd also be pretty huge -- it can't be argued that the stars make that show (it has nothing else to it), so it's fine to pay them a lot and cut costs in other places. But since only 2.5 M's budget is being considered here, no other shows or actors are affected.

    CBS could be making its actor-choices for NY based on the other things in the budget they have to pay for (ie, forensic tools and other gimmicks) and how much they feel the actors make the show, in comparison to all those other things. If NY's PTB spend a lot on the tools compared to the actors/characters, then yeah, CBS might follow suit because they think that's what makes the show work (I completely disagree, but it's not up to me :shifty:). But since the overall budget for CSI:NY is at least ten times more than Charlie Sheen's salary, it's not really his fault, since they're not exactly cutting costs from NY to keep his salary the same.

    ...Well, they could be, but there's no real way to prove that.:lol:

    Sorry, I know this wasn't too on-topic, so...

    I'm not too thrilled with the New Orleans exit myself -- I know it was probably a hasty decision and to be fair, I prefer it a lot over other options (dead, or even Greece -- which'd make more sense, but would be too far away for periodic visits :(). But as an orphan who's "family" (the team) is in New York, when she's lived in New York her whole life -- I do get wanting to experience new places, and it makes sense that Stella would want to help in New Orleans, but it surprises me that her ties to New York would be broken that easily.
  5. Axatullux

    Axatullux Lab Technician

    Nov 1, 2005
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    Melina, you're role on CSI:NY is irreplaceable and I really enjoyed seeing both your physical beauty being shown in a very classy and beautiful way and NOT via degrading ways as is seen on TOO many videos and magazines these days. Add to that, your character alter-ego showed brains, strength and personality like no other leading lady.

    It is very, VERY sad to see you depart from the series, add to it, your vegas counter part Marg/Catherine but it was a great 6 years of your presence that has etched you and Marg into my memories forever. Not since the Janet Jackson of the Rhythm Nation era did I connect to any strong female characters like I did with you and Stella and thus it is a painful withdrawal that I'm going through. Re-runs may dull the pain but TV-Wise, you will be missed dearly by millions of fans. :( We'll all be waiting for you to return to TV or on the big screen in the near future. Let's hope we don't have to wait too long.

    As for Sela Ward, I wish you the best of luck and I feel very bad to see you dragged into this in-civil thread debate. May you do your part in transitioning into this new universe. If only, you were an addition rather than a replacement, we could've had TWO leading ladies.

    As for CBS and tptb, a loud BOOHISS!!....for wrecking both the characters and the show with the disaster of Frankie, then Drew, and finally needlessly killing off two strong ladies Aiden Burn and Jessica Angell. :mad:

    I don't know where I may go from here but based on what I've been reading on the thread involving my favorite CSI:NY character, seeing how off-topic it has gone, I am dangerously close to leaving the Stella/Melina thread for good!
  6. Ballettmaus

    Ballettmaus Hit and Run

    Apr 30, 2009
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    He was? He wasn't really, was he? I didn't think he was too grown up, there were a lot of his ramblings; it was almost a bit too much. His character was "the same old, same old" and at one point a joke gets lame and it's not funny anymore.
    Part of the problem could have been that he wasn't in every episode anymore.

    They shouldn't have introduced her in the first episode just like they shouldn't introduce SW now in the first episode. Second would have done it as well.

    It could have been interesting because they could have even connected it to his money-trouble and a new case that maybe involved the free clinic (or whatever it was) he was working at after hours. Or maybe they could have connected it to the Shane Casey episode in a way, seeming like his love interest was involved somehow.
    But that, too, was an episode that I think was thrown in at the last minute because they wanted Casey back for ratings since he was such a popular character.

    Especially after they dropped the love interest thing for both Mac and Stella in season 5. Clearly, if it was unpopular in season 5 it would be a lot more popular in season 6 :p

    I agree. Could have been a great opportunity to show more of his character. Being offered the job but maybe even declining.

    But then again, what about the love interest he was supposed to get in season 6? That never happened.
    I don't know how they're doing it, I'm not sure I would discuss it really as in debating with the actors. Maybe it's just things they talk about, that come up and potential developments and they're trying to see how the ideas are received?

    As if love is the only personal thing there is in life. I think episodes like the one with the fire in Stella's apartment show more of a personal side of the character than a love interest necessarily does. A love interest is just so bland, screaming: This is for the personal sake of the character.
    It's often little details which bring out a personal side in more subtle way and it's also which gives the actors the opportunity to "play" with the character a little.

    Exactly. Besides, they gave Stella Frankie and Drew then they killed off the professor and then they're giving her the crap of having to compete with Aubrey and Peyton. That's not really fair. Romantic relationship yes or no, they at least could have left her her best friend and the close bond.
    But instead Mac gets the third love interest... I mean, he's good looking but he's no Adonis and he's not the youngest anymore either...

    And the latter used to be Stella's purpose. Which made Aubrey even more annoying because she was substituting Stella. That wasn't the case with Peyton. Peyton had her own character and her own roles in Mac's life and didn't do those scenes with Mac that Stella previously was shown having with Mac.
    But apparently showing a weaker side of Mac just wasn't possible... S6 was after all very much the opposite.

    You think? I don't know. Seems like an odd train of thoughts... Okay... never mind ;)

    I'm sort of glad they didn't do what they announced for Stella, that she was going to be more daring or whatever it was they said. I mean, how could Stella have been more daring? Jump of bridges and running into burning houses to save the cat? She already was a free spirit and character that reacted with her heart; that reacted before she thought. So there wasn't much left she could have done into that direction that would have been credible for the line of work she was in.
    But I agree, it would have been very interesting to pick up where they had left of. Also, I would have liked to get more on the Mac-Stella issue. I liked that he was closing himself in again and shutting her out, however, Stella being Stella, I don't think she would have waited the month to tell him off about it and also, they could have spent a little more time on that.
    It was sort of like GFD, they had so many things: Danny's condition, Flack's loss, Stella, too, in a way because she just lost the professor and then weeks later another friend... the general impact of one of theirs being shot to everyone and being shot at themselves. But didn't have the time to deal with all of them properly because that would have taken away from the cases completely. They should have gone with less and should have continued to develop the characters in a more subtle way.
    Which might be one of the problems, that they shifted away from the subtle way; maybe because they ran out of ideas for the cases to fill 45 minutes. Who knows. But the personal side shifted too much into the foreground and then it got unlogical.

    Yes, well, you know what they say about too many cooks...

    Who knows what they wanted. But even if she meant "certain clauses" in a more general way, it was definitely more than the money issue that made her leave.
    I would think that she didn't want to appear for half the season or whatever because that wouldn't have ended things for good but she'd have hung in-between, sort of. However, one or two episodes wouldn't have taken long and she'd be done with it by now or next weeks and would have been free for new projects. So, itit's still odd that she's not doing it.

    Stella did that all the time (when they let her...) and I would have found it a bit... unnatural if all of a sudden it would have been Peyton. He didn't know Peyton as well and in a way he had a closer relationship with Stella than with her. It would take time for him to open up to Peyton as much as he does to Stella because he's just a character who doesn't trust easily and didn't even open up to Stella with everything - unless she pried it carefully out of him. But that takes skill and Peyton didn't come over as the most empathetic and sensitive woman...

    Horatio I find plain annoying most of the time. Mac's different, he's not annoying he's just too good to be to true in every sense of the way. He's got a hero complex.

    I didn't watch S1 that often... but I guess it's just a natural thing to do because you do have difficulties as a woman in a men's world and when I was in the states a year ago I watched a TV show in which a woman was the first female officer in a small town in Indiana. That was in 2009... and Indiana is, as far as I know, not too conservative...
    As I said, I think they needed S1 to become familiar with their characters, see the direction they were heading.
    Some managed to make something out of their character better than others, though I think Cahill did a good job with Flack as well and I also think that CG was able to take Danny somewhere in S2 and 3. Danny's an interesting character but the writers made it difficult for him. I didn't like that he had the affair with Rikki because I liked Danny and Lindsay in S3, however, I started to dislike them after they were put back together by the writers for the baby because something just didn't feel right anymore about it. It felt acted and not natural.
    But it seems MK had the fewest difficulties identifying with her character.

    It's tasteful, at least they're not killing her off. It's just not a logical train of thought for Stella.

    But then, given the fans general... atmosphere or whatever they could have forseen where the triangle would lead to and they still did it...

    I think MK won't reveal whatever it was at the moment (& CBS probably's not interested) and by the time things have settled enough, no one will be interested anymore. So it won't be asked which is why I think we'll never know.

    Which makes me curious as to what he really thought about the MK deal. I quite liked what he was saying in that fancast article. I liked that a lot more than his promoting the show on twitter. It said a lot more without saying anything directly. Makes him human and makes him have feelings.

    Oh, now why that smilie face? ;)
    Well, it sounds like the season premier is supposed to be Jo's first case, so... Stella might not have been gone for that long. Question is why jump ahead 5 months then? In any case, they still can explain to Jo why she's replacing Stella. I'd love to see that bring out emotions for Mac, showing how much Stella meant to him. That would pay great respect to Stella/MK.

    However, in a more general way I think it's easier for writers to deal with the characters as they always have dealt with them. It's a comfort zone they're in and developing a character according to a profile isn't the easiest thing to do.

    Yes but this is just so wrong because they depend on the people who critisize. It's like when athletes refuse to give autographs. There sometimes may be times when the timing isn't right but in general, they wouldn't earn the money and be as popular without the fans they're refusing to give autographs to and it seems like people in those positions like to forget that.
    The other problem is that there're always people who'll just run after whatever and don't see the power they have and don't think critically about something they adore.

    Very likely; very sad ;)

    Should I answer or was that a rhethorical question? ;)

    Lot's of mysteries on the show lately; maybe they should make it a mystery show instead of a crime drama :D
    Well, I think there were a few basics between the characters they shouldn't have messed with and one is the dynamic between Mac and Stella but also the dynamic between Stella and the rest of the team. Danny and Flack's dynamic as well because they were great with each other too. You can keep all that and still vary.
    But there must be a reason why, IIRC, Criminal Justice, the episode after Second Chances, had the highest rating of the season... Though I think the ratings again dropped after the half hour point. That's another thing they don't seem to ask themselves. There must be a reason why the ratings drop after half an hour while other shows have a rise after the half hour mark.

    The time line was confusing anyway. With everything Stella was supposed to have done and having known Mac for that long... quite a tight schedule.
    I guess it all comes back to the testing of the characters and maybe they realized Stella needs to be a bit more authoritarian.

    I think it could also have to do with the actor; men often have difficulties with emotions so maybe it was difficult for GS to act in such a way?
    With Danny I think Mac was good because it was sort of a mentor/father-son relationship and I think that's Mac's thing. But anything that goes beyond that and caring on a same emotional level, that was a bit too much for Mac. Mac's caring but he's not showing it that much on an emotional outward level.

    Exactly. And that she was in need of some emotion showed that (ridiculous) one-night-stand. Like I said, I can understand why, I just can't understand how things would lead to that with Adam.
    However, I didn't feel like Stella wasn't approaching her colleagues, I felt like they were all separated from one another. Like everyone was sticking to themselves. For the most part, the flirting between Mac and Stella was missing but I still think when they interacted with each other, there was that familiarity and that blind understanding. Until Aubrey came along. Then things got messy.

    Yes but she still confided in Stella. So while her baby was her major concern, she trusted Stella enough. Not so sure if it had been anyone had Stella not been trusted with the safety issue. It didn't sound to me like that because Lindsay's explanation was pretty obvious and see-through.

    Never considered Stella and Lindsay good friend material.

    "If only" sounds like a term that was invented for CSI NY :D

    Yes, but still not logic. No matter how noble. Still very easy for them. But there's so much they didn't consider. It's not just death which has an impact on others, such things can have an impact as well and people can also feel abandoned. And Stella is a very emotional person and even though she's independent she also needs emotional reassurance and stability. She doesn't have parents she could always count on but she had Mac and also Flack.

    If you say that, doesn't it mean though that CBS has less money to give to shows like CSI NY because the budget they're granting CS's show is higher? So, in a way, that salary they're able to pay CS does have to do with the other shows, doesn't it? Because their budget is just not as high. Money doesn't grow on trees so CBS has to see where to girant more and where to grant less money.

    That's exactly my point. Of course, she'd want to see other places but I don't see her leaving and breaking all ties she has with NY because of a job offer. I think there would have been a major event, like, as I said, an argument with Mac, something that makes it impossible for her to stay. Nothing the likes has happened. I would have understood had she wanted to leave after Frankie because she needed a change but I don't think she'd leave permanently just because she felt like it. Her character never was set up like that, she was happy in NY, she liked her team, she adored the city. She belonged there.
    So yes, great she's not killed but it's just not a logical step to take for Stella.
  7. Andromeda

    Andromeda Police Officer

    Mar 29, 2009
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    Well, I thought he was different than usual in the first few episodes, especially the way he behaved with Haylen. Later he was the same old, same old again, like you said. Usually I love Adam, even if not all jokes work and he sometimes seems only to be the jester of the lab, but he´s a fun character to enjoy.
    Yes, they could have announced HB in the show, kind of Mac telling the others that they´ll soon get a new collegue. With SW, she probably has to be there from the beginning, because it´s five months later and Stella left at some point during these months.

    Yes, I agree, actually I thought SH´s financial collapse was part and beginning of his arc, but as often, it went to nowhere.
    Agree, I´m pretty sure Shane Casey´s return wasn´t in their scripts when they started their plans for S6. But when the ratings began to drop they had to think about something spectacular, so they came up with his comeback.

    Yes, but obviously that wasn´t to deter TPTB :D to bring in another love interest.

    Agree, that would have been a great episode for him, for once only or mostly about him.

    As I said, HH talked a lot about it as if it was sure to happen, but then it never happened- but why not? Maybe they discuss with the actors, but have the final say.

    Exactly, "RND" is a very good example of how personal stuff of the characters can be involved in cases, without necessarily being a love interest. Another one is Danny and what he went through after the little boy Ruben was shot. This love interest stuff only seems like an alibi, as if the writers want to show: look, even night and day working detectives have a private life and need love.

    I agree, she only got the crappy guys and the only man having a personal meaning to her got killed. So why not give her a new love interest, but this time a good guy, why again Mac got a possible love interest, once more a Mrs. Nice Woman?
    I don´t really think Aubrey took Stella´s place, it would have only been a matter of adding nice scenes with Stella and Mac, too, which they managed to do when he was with Peyton. This time they either seemed to lazy to do so or decided to change the direction into less Mac/Stella-closeness, though PV claimed the opposite.
    I agree, S6 was only about Mac the hero.

    Maybe ;), but I just think when they decided to kill Angell, they perhaps got the idea to follow this direction and do another shoot out, this time with the whole team as cliffhanger.

    Well, the only more daring and spontaneous thing Stella did was right at the beginning the night with Adam. But that was all and like you I couldn´t really imagine what they meant with it that she would sort live for the moment from now on, just do whatever she feels like to do, PV said that Stella is kind of opposite to Hawkes who invested money. So was Stella spending all her salary every month up to the very last cent unlike Hawkes? Well, OK, but that´s not too interesting for a story :D. I don´t know, but I agree with you that Stella was already a free spirit who accepted little boundaries.
    I agree, I was surprised how little Mac/Stella there was going on after such a traumatizing event, just that one time that she told him off. Absolutely, there was too much going on at the same time with the characters, plus having the time shifted again made it even more difficult to stuff it all into 45 mins, plus the cases. They should have concentrated on one or two characters, those who were affected the most: Danny and Flack; Danny physically and Flack psychologically, because he was mourning Angell and had to face with almost being shot himself. Stella surely suffered too, but since she had a lot of presence in S5, it would have been OK to focus on Danny and Flack and they could have written it the way that the two help and build each other up. So that could have happened in, say, half of the season and not a rushed thing, plus there´d been enough space for the cases.

    Yes, unfortunately this saying doesn´t reach TPTB.

    Yes, "certain clauses" suggests more than money issues, it seemed more complicated and finally not possible to be dissolved.
    Exactly, shooting one or two episodes wouldn´t have cost her too much time and energy and probably wouldn´t interfere with possible new projects. So unless she will reveal more, we will never know why she declined to do so.

    Well, if Mac had stayed together with Peyton for longer, he surely would have opened up to her at some point, maybe in a different way than he did with Stella, because with Stella he knew that´s a friendship for life, he could trust her in every way, because it wasn´t a relationship that could end some day, unless they´d have a really bad fall out, which was very unlikely as they even managed to argue well without hurting each other badly :lol:. Stella was in advantage to know him much longer and better than Peyton. She would have this advantage with every woman that enters Mac´s life, but that´s generally the advantage if two people "only" are friends, but not in a romance. And that´s what made it so great between Stella and Mac, I don´t think it would have been if they had had a relationship.

    Yes, Horatio is awful, while I can like Mac when he has his human moments and is not too much the striving hero.

    S1 was generally still simpler than the following seasons as there were the four CSIs and Hawkes, a bit interaction but still the personal things were in the background and the cases in the foreground and sometimes I wished back this simplicity, though with the characters already developed ;). You´re probably right and Stella was still trying to succeed as a woman in a men´s world where it seems still unusual for a woman to have a leading or co-leading position in this profession.
    I agree, some characters had a good development, especially Flack, but Danny, too. I was never sure if it´s a good idea to bring him and Lindsay together, I found her not the right one for him :D. The affair with Rikki may have been silly, but I liked that they showed the weak side of Danny and that maybe he still wasn´t sure that he wanted a relationship with Lindsay. With them coming together again, that was probably improvised a lot due to AB´s pregnancy, they had two options: either they made them a family, or they made it complicated with Lindsay being a single mother and Danny the part time-Daddy, they chose for former, maybe because it would be too time consuming to bring such complex family stuff into a short episode.
    I agree, MK seemed to have grown fastest into her character.

    Yeah, it´s not tasteless at least, and MK perhaps doesn´t expect logic anyway ;).

    They seem to have a problem to admit errors and accept fans´opinions.

    I agree, MK will probably keep it to herself and CBS won´t talk anyway unless they´re asked and then it will be just phrases. So it will remain a mystery what exactly happened.

    Well, I don´t know how much he knew about it, if they talked in private about contract things and which clauses their individual contracts have. But they seem to be quite good friends, so it shouldn´t be surprising that he feels sorry that she leaves. I think he can be pretty human when he´s just a private man ;).

    That´s for the writers in case they pop up here ;).
    Hm, must read the spoiler again, I thought Jo is already there for a while and Stella is already gone for a while, that all happened during these five months since the Casey case. But I like it that they seem to write in a sort of rivalry between Mac and Jo, they are collegues for now, but still not friends, if ever. So like you said it should be interesting to see his emotional reactions in case Jo asks him about Stella and why she left and what kind of person she was.

    I agree, it´s generally not always easy to develop a character or deal with it, especially when the character isn´t present anymore. They must try to make Stella present for a moment in the dialogues of the team.

    Yes, every artist, every artistic or sport profession depend on their audience; they support them with empathy and money, so the fans´opinions should never be dismissed, because then they might turn their backs on the artists. With TV shows it´s the ratings that are a measure wether the fans are happy or not. The big studio or TV bosses just count the viewers, but they don´t really listen to critics or take it as inspiration to improve quality. Their obvious reaction to dropping ratings is to stop a show or move it to another time slot, but listening to fans´reactions would be like having to get down from their thrown and descend to the ordinary people.

    I leave the choice to you ;).

    :lol: Yes, last season was rather a mystery show than a crime show, why not change the genre? I agree, they´ve messed up most of the dynamics between the different characters, especially Mac and Stella and Danny and Flack.
    Well, the reason why is that it was simply the best episode of the season ;), well IMO anyway; it was a great case, well thought out, coherent, great team spirit, it was almost perfect, so I don´t really understand why that one lost after the half hour point, while I understand it with a lot of the other episodes: they were often so bad or boring that people switched off or zapped away. And I agree, the producers seem ignorant about such statistics or why are they not doing something to improve it?

    Yes, given that she was born in 74 or 75, as we learnt in GfD, she couldn´t really have worked already for so long, she would have still been at the Police Academy 11 years ago, or so I think. Yes, if S1 was still a testing phase, they did well to realize that Stella needed a bit more authority.

    Yes, maybe GS is a kind of man who isn´t very emotional in private, so maybe he finds it difficult to give Mac an emotional aspect.

    Yes, but it wasn´t really that kind of emotion she would have needed, such a short lived, meaningless one-night stand. Maybe it was meant to be some sort of desperate clinging to each other when they both didn´t want to be alone after that shoot out.
    Well, it occured to me especially with Stella that she seemed so detached and less approachable and less approaching, but I guess you´re right and they were all in general seperated from each other in a strange way, there was no closeness for most of the time. So adding Aubrey didn´t help changing this, or better it stopped things getting better again between Mac and Stella

    Yes, but she trusted Stella just as much as she had to, if you know what I mean, maybe it´s just me, but I really think she wouldn´t have confided in Stella at all, if she hadn´t had to do so because of the safety issue.

    Only for a short while in S3, but it never worked out and Lindsay is so much different to Stella.

    Indeed :D.

    Yes, I agree, logical in no way. If it had been closer to NY, then OK, but not that far away from all the people that mean so much to her. I don´t think she would put her career above having her friends close to her. The NY lab was her home from home, she wouldn´t give up that so easily just because she could become the boss of another lab.
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2010
  8. Ballettmaus

    Ballettmaus Hit and Run

    Apr 30, 2009
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    But was he really? He was quite nervous about his job sort of instantly and insecure as he usually is. He didn't come over much more mature; the only thing he was mature about was Stella's rejection but then that sort of was to be expected, that, at least from me, that she would brush him of. Made him credible that he didn't expect it to go any further and didn't make a fuzz about it.
    But I love Adam too... for being eye-candy alone :D

    But again, from the spoilers it sounds like it's her first case in NY... because everyone's been saying, not time for introductions, she going to a crime scene straight away. Doesn't make sense to me - why skip 5 months if Jo is new anyway? Yet... there was little that has made sense lately.

    And now they killed him for good... strange... Maybe he's being punished because he didn't bring the ratings they were hoping for :D

    I think it's a given they have the final say because if not, Stella wouldn't have gone where Stella went ;) Though I think it's wrong; after all, the actors bring the characters to life. They should listen to what the actors have to say about their characters.

    As if we didn't know that. I at least always assume they have a life outside the lab. After all, Danny, Don and Stella should have some friends from school left. Though the love interests then, in return, make it seem as if they only have the love interest and no friends. But instead of love interests they could, for example, concentrate on friends.
    There are so many other options than just love interests to show private life. It's not like the person who doesn't have a love interest doesn't have a life outside the job and it is a given that that job is quite demanding.

    Though I prefer if they're both single.
    I find Mac's women pretty boring though, because they always seem so... almost stereotype, in a way. Not interesting. They blend in with the crowd and don't stand out.

    She did?
    But that's exactly the problem, or where I see the problem, that they were too lazy doing so. Off screen so to say, Aubrey didn't take Stella's place yet she did on-screen in a way. The way things were written they gave the impression that it was the case. Also because the dynamic between Mac and Stella was neglected.

    Though while we're at it, that scene in episode 21 (the Aubrey episode before Point of View) where Mac stays at the hospital for no apparent reason while Stella heads back to the lab was most ridiculous. How about he got to work too? :p That wasn't heroic, that was making me laugh.

    It still remains an odd train of thought ;)

    And which is still missing the catalyst... And always will. But as I said before, that, too, would be an interesting thing to discuss with the writers. I'd love to make a list with all the questions about how and why they imagine their characters did what they did, how they justify the actions as fitting their characters. I wonder if I would get many answers...

    I already imagined Stella living the moment anyway. Not to spend the very last cent but I think she did enjoy living and she always enjoyed it. But I don't think she would ever get irresponsible. I don't think she would start sleeping with every guy she comes across or spend all her money to the very last cent. She lived for the moment but within reason. So, there wouldn't really have been a way to change that unless they would have made her irresponsible. But I guess, since it didn't happen... we're all happy. But who knows, maybe it was one thing that MK protested about during the season. Who knows what they had planned...

    Yes, I agree. However, on the other hand, it did affect all of them and Lindsay also would have been affected because she could have lost her husband. So, they maybe should have scratched the Danny being injured thing because they had enough to deal with with a heartbroken Flack and the aftermath of the shooting and the effect of Angell's death. Everyone being shot at could have been over within the three/four week period, Lindsay and Danny and Hawkes and Adam could have dealt with it by then, Stella, too, she would just have maybe needed more care or whatever because of everything that had happened before and Mac wouldn't have needed to enclose himself in his office. It would have been much better for the little time they have for doing episodes. I think it all became too much when they decided to have Danny be as injured as he was because that prompted Mac's reaction and Lindsay's that was never there... It certainly could have been all very interesting and I'm the first who likes intrecate stories but not if I don't have the time to deal with it properly, as CSI NY doesn't have. They need intrecate stories that fit into 45 minutes. Or that stretch on over the season... which I'm not confident they would manage...

    There's a lot that's not reaching them that should reach them...

    I don't know what would have been had they started a relationship at the point they were at, after all they had great basics for a relationship. But that certainly is up to the eye of the beholder.
    I agree completely that Mac and Stella had an extraordinary relationship which is why it was such a pity it was as neglected as it was in S6 and will be neglected in S7 as well, as I fear.
    However, I wasn't really saying that Peyton wasn't credible as a girlfriend or anything. Just that while still written well, it was Stella who was able to do things his girlfriend couldn't and I found that realistically. Especially considering that I didn't find Peyton very sensitive and empathetic.
    That made it even more unrealistic for me how things were written with Aubrey and how they developed so fast. Because Mac hadn't changed between S4 and 6 and I don't really think that's something that changes that easily. Either you're outgoing or you're not. Mac clearly is not and I don't think he suddenly would thrust himself at girls and pursue them/run after them because he's just not the type to do so.

    I think that's exactly what they need and I think S1 maybe just seemed simpler because you didn't know as much about the characters yet. But episode 15 was very personal for Stella and so was episode 2. Episode 1 seemed to affect Mac very much, episode 20, I think, was again very personal for Stella but also showed Mac and Stella, how they "worked" in an argument. Then Officer Blue - personal for Mac, the Dog show episode, again Mac and Stella. So, there was a lot of personal stuff going on, but we were still learning and it was done in a brillantly subtle way. S6 had shifted away from that completely. S5 was at the verge of doing that in some episodes. And GFD is no exception, however, I didn't think they left it much of a choice from the way things had been set up.
    But I said before, going back to the roots would be greatly appreciated... would have been because I don't really care anymore if they ruin the show or not or already did ;)

    Yes, that's always how I thought it was. I think Danny was cute in how he tried to hit on Lindsay but that chemistry or interaction sort of died in S5 when they were forced together.

    No, they really had a choice between either including AB's pregnancy or not. They kept the first one out of the show so they could have kept the second one out as well.
    The reason why they wouldn't have gone for the single mother-part time Danny solution is simply because I don't think it would have come over very well in a Tv show in the US. I think making them a family was, in that way, their only solution, after they included the baby and if they didn't want to outrage a certain group of people.

    That though isn't a surprise for people in their position, is it? Seems to be a general disease.

    Right... :p

    Well, if they do that then I would appreciate that. It would add something very interesting and would make her very different from Stella. However, I sort of have lost my hopes into the writers and that they'd do something that I would like that much...
    Also, the rivalry is still a question, after all, Mac and Stella had different opinions on how to handle cases without having a rivalry. So, that could go either way.

    Yes though what I meant was that we'd been talking about those many opportunities they hadn't moved the characters forward. Which was why I said, writing the character as they always write it is a lot easier and is done quicker than developing the character according to its profile and writing the character into a situation the character wasn't in before. So, the example about Mac being confronted with a "bad" woman. Out of Mac's comfort zone, out of the writers comfort zone.
    I always felt that MK was going out of Stella's comfort zone anyway, that she stretched what she was given as far as she could.

    Which is something I have difficulties understanding. If you have a musical that doesn't work there's not really anything you can do other than cancel it. It's sort of like a movie. It's either hit or miss, you only have one chance. However, a TV show can be improved, there are voices and a TV show as so many chances to change and improve over time... Yet if they cancel the show they have the risk of taking on another show that maybe only runs for one season because it's no hit. So they lost the show that was a hit and they ruined and the new show.
    Why not grab the opportunity and listen to what you can improve and improve it? Wouldn't that, in the end, earn you more money or at least the same as you weren't doing it?

    Stella and Flack, too, because that was pretty much non-existent. I think the problem was, what they were trying to do was show how Mac can relate to Flack having lost someone he loved. Problem is, Mac's not as empathetic and I would think not as close on a personal level as Stella was to Flack. Besides, each one copes with loss differently.

    Well, that would come back to what we discussed above about them not wanting to mingle and rather cancel the show than work on it.
    Maybe PV thought she was improving it with twilight :D Maybe they thought they would attract a different audience with it. Problem probably was that the spoilers were more promising than the actual episodes.

    Well, no. If the academy isn't longer than four years it would have worked. I think she went to the academy first anyway, and went to college while working as a police officer. How would she have paid for college otherwise anyway? But still, that would mean she met Mac while working as a police officer and how quickly did she become second in command? Straight away, apparently.

    Like I said, I still don't know how to make it plausible to myself but I think it could have been a need for Stella to live, sort of. To forget about everything and just let go. And since her best friend was busy and locked up in his office... though the time line is still a question mark. If Adam happened straight away, okay... but she wouldn't have waited until forever to confront Mac. If Adam didn't happen straight away she still wouldn't have waited until forever to confront Mac. So... that episode is very confusing.

    I agree. And it sort of ties in with what I said above. I mean in episode 2 or 3 Stella talked to Mac about Flack. To have Mac have the contact with Flack in the end.
    But as I said before, it seemed like everything went through Mac and the characters didn't really interact on a personal level if they interacted. Or it was Danny and Lindsay, Stella and Mac, Flack and Mac (one episode), so sticking to the "common couples".

    Yes, she is but that's why I think they were never close friend material. Lindsay was very much pushed into the background but then she seemed to let herself be pushed as well.

    Well, she hasn't put her career above her friends for how many years? Why now? As I said, she didn't seem unsatisfied, she seemed to like the position she was in and never mentioned wanting to do something else. And you don't really just leave because of a better offer (head instead of second in command) when you're happy with your life. I mean, she's empathetic alright, but going for the people that's just too ridiculous because of the various aspects we discussed.
    But you don't really leave your happy, content life behind without any drastic reason.
  9. Lori K.

    Lori K. Pathologist

    Jul 26, 2008
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    Yes and I dont think EDNA has a big enough "fanbase" yet to carry the show!:lol:
    I so agree with this! Remember how dark and drab the set was in season one! I wondered though if certian companies loan some of the sophisticated equipment to the show?

    I wonder how it all flows? Of course you have Melina on one end and then the CBS PTB and CSI NY PTB. I think it was mentioned that there was more involved then just money. Although money seems to be the first suggestion that came out when all of this broke.
    It is not as plausible for the very reasons you suggested. They could have sent her to New Jersey with Quinn or take a sabtical to teach but isnt that the excuse they used for Grissom? None the less as someone mentioned earlier the reasons stated: Hurrican Katrina, gulf oil spill, really have nothing to do with Stellas field. Besides being an orphan if she was really needing to help in New Orleans she could have taken time off and gone with a recovery effort group or something. The excuse was made hastily I agree and other options would have made more sense.

    I dont wish ill for SW. Yes in the beginning I was upset with the way she was introduced, it seemed insulting to Melina still does seem that way IMO. But I cant blame SW for taking a job. The way it was handled the way all of this was handled is what has caused some of us to not want to just forget about it.

    Here! Here! I agree so much and miss them still even more.:( Outside of Stella they were the strongest female characters on CSINY and had a wonderful repoire with Stell:thumbsup:.

    I am so sorry to hear that. Unfortunatly our last correspondence in regards to Stella has ended on a negative note. And although I wish I was talking about her under different circumstances I think it better to discuss then just simply let her die away.:(

    :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Your right!:lol::lol::lol:

    Never saw it either.

    And EAT!!:p:lol:
    I think THAT was one of Dannys finest hours:thumbsup: He has been reduced to Lindseys grocery runner and diaper changer.:rolleyes: I mean domisticated Danny is boring and unkept. Check out his taste in clothing and hairdos lately he looked like a pumpkin on Halloween last time we saw him. He is being portrayed as thoughtless and stupid trying to pull off "angst Danny". In his grieving role with Rueben and Rikki he was so sweet and so genuinely distraught now he comes off as a squaking duck that keeps screwing up.:rolleyes:

    I know what you are saying, and as funny as it sounds it was soo true!
    And did. Because she was with him at his most horrific and vulnerable time in life and helped get him through, the friendship they shared can not and will not ever be matched or copied as many times as they tried.

    I know alot of people will be watching for the last time for that very reason. The problem is I dont think KNOW who Stella is any more, they have "lost her" character along the way.:(
  10. Andromeda

    Andromeda Police Officer

    Mar 29, 2009
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    He was strange in these first episodes; he was unsure about his job as usual, alright, but otherwise he seemed more mature than before, unless this was just a sort of fake, a mask he put on to counter Haylen. His reaction to Stella´s rejection- not sure if that was honestly mature or fake, too, because I had the feeling he´d agree to whatever she´d say; had she said "Let´s repeat this", he would have said Yes. It was as if he wanted her to lead the way.
    Oh yes, he is eye-candy indeed :D.

    I thought they meant it that way that she´s already been there for a while, so no time for introductions, because she´s not so new. Well, the time skip is necessary to explain Stella´s exit, I guess.

    Who knows, if PV brings in her love for Twilight, he might come back again with long teeth and pale skin :D.

    Yes, MK wouldn´t have messed Stella up that way, agree ;). Also agree that they should listen more to the inspirations that the actors have for their characters.

    They assume we don´t know that ;). I agree, when they had love interests, it was as if this is all they had, no other private activity, just love and work. That´s stupid, why not give them friends and show them, because despite the hard work, even they have and need a social life.

    Peyton could have been made a very interesting character I think, had she stayed, but with Aubrey, I don´t know, she seemed a bit too nice for my taste. Yes, ideally they should be single, coz their choices were never really the best. How could they write Stella this dumb fireman at her side? He was just a big laugh, and fortunately they quickly realized this :D.

    Yes, in one interview she said so. They probably didn´t intend to write Aubrey the way in that it would put the closeness of Mac/Stella aside, and it wasn´t just the Aubrey-thing doing this, the devil was already before in their writing, so to say.

    Honestly, I can´t remember that scene, so it must have been a rather non-impressive one ;).

    Well, not more odd than lots of their trains of thought :p.

    Oh yes, a cross-examination with the writers and a list of inconvenient questions, that would be good- for us :lol:, but I feel they wouldn´t give a lot of meaningful answers.

    I agree; we had already a certain picture of Stella, given her difficult childhood one should think that she enjoyed her adult life in a responsible way. Maybe this was just another of PV´s writing plans that never made it on the paper- thank God for that :D. Maybe you´re right and MK objected to any plans of making Stella a irresponsible, careless person who´ll do silly things.

    Well, given that they just can´t cram all personal stuff into 45 mins, it would perhaps been better to concentrate on one or two characters. I didn´t mention Lindsay, since I think we´ve had enough D/L stuff in S5 :D, but you´re right she was affected, too; they all were, OK, but it´s just impossible to show all their traumas. So Flack and Danny were to me the most obvious, the writers could have woven some stories around them. But instead it became neither fish nor flesh, after a few epsiodes it was as if all the bad things never happened.

    That´s true.

    I agree, that is in the eye of the beholder; my eye would have just loved if they had left it as it was ;), but they didn´t even do this, it was just as if this great friendship had never existed.
    Yes, I know what you mean, Stella had known Mac for much longer, so she could do things and know things that Peyton couldn´t. I agree, Mac was much too outgoing considering Aubrey, that´s just not his way usually and wasn´t with Peyton, so why now with Aubrey? Did they want to show him in a more human way or more approachable? I don´t know.

    I agree, we didn´t know the characters well then and it was nice to get to know them through the season. And I don´t mean this in a negative way that S1 was still simpler than the following seasons, this had very much a charm of its own and though sometimes Stella was still a bit too tough a cookie for my taste, I remember these episodes that showed already that Stella we were going to see in the future. You might know that they re-run S1 currently here ;), so it´s nice to watch these beginnings again. S1 was leading the way to more subtle characters, while S6 was leading away from them.

    Exactly, it was good as long it was just a bit loose, but in S5 it became a little bit of painful- for us viewers at least :D.

    AB´s first pregnancy needed to be hidden IMO, because she still wasn´t with Danny and didn´t seem to have another boyfriend, so they would have had to invent an adventurous story of how she got pregnant, e. g. ex-boyfriend, short affair with married man, etc..
    With her second pregnancy they had more choices- OK, they could have hidden it again and not yet force the family stuff on them, but like you said it seemed the ideal thing to show in a US-TV show: the baby arrived and suddenly all was fine finally and also it was the first happy CSI-family :lol:.

    Yes, absolutely.

    Yes, I don´t dare either to build much hopes again on their writing skills; they had so many good opportunities for great stories in the past that they messed up that it would be just too good to be true if they´d succeed now.
    The rivalry would be good to show the difference between Jo and Stella; Mac accepted and respected Stella´s opinions and never considered her as a rival, because they were long standing partners and became great friends. Jo is now new, she hasn´t worked with him in the lab from the start as Stella did, so she enters his territory.

    Yeah, I agree, maybe a lot of opportunities were not used, because it means more effort with the writing, out of the usual pattern into a new one, a new direction. It´s easier to give Mac another nice woman, because that´s not a challenge to write, rather than confront him with a "bad" woman.
    I agree, perhaps MK stretched the writers´imagination more and didn´t always allow the easy way out, because she gave Stella a profile that was more demanding and versatile, so it needed the same in the writing.

    I absolutely agree, with a TV show there are so many options to improve stuff, to change things, to work it over. But I think, as I said before, this business has become so disposable, the big networks don´t give much time and chances to sort problems out and increase ratings, rather they cancel a show and create a new one, even with the risk that it may flop, but then they create another one and another one, as long until one will be a success. Look how many new shows appear every year, and how many of them disappear after one or two seasons; they don´t allow the shows to grow, with few exceptions.

    It´s not that Stella hasn´t lost people she loved or even never had these people she would have loved, so she would have been the right one to talk to Flack, too, but of course, Mac the lonesome hero and widower was the one they chose. And I agree that was despite the fact that Mac and Flack never were that close, while Flack and Stella were pretty close.

    That was very often the problem: that the spoilers were more promising than the final result. But I think the spoilers about Peyton and a possible triangle were as little promising as the final result would have been, had it ever happened ;).

    I don´t know how long the academy takes, but I agree that she probably went to college after that, parallel to her work as police officer. I think they met when she was still a police officer and probably Mac saw her talent and made her soon secone in command, or so it seems, but still it´s a tight schedule.

    I think Adam happened straight after the shoot out, and I agree the Stella we know wouldn´t have waited so long to confront Mac. I don´t know, it was really very confusing. Stella seemed to need a relief, to feel that she´s alive and somehow Adam happened to be near.

    Yes, she was detached, didn´t ask Flack or Danny or Sheldon directly, so most interactions went via Mac and the whole team spirit was generally distorted.

    Well, Stella as open-minded mother superior would have even cracked Lindsay´s shell, if they had let her :D, but Lindsay is just such a distant and cool character who wasn´t meant to open up much to anybody.

    Exactly, all summoned up, there simply wasn´t any reason why she would want to leave, not at all. That is absolutely not Stella´s way; she was happy the way it was, she never seemed to have any ambition to become the head of a CSI lab. So in whatever way they´re going to explain this, it just won´t make sense.
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2010
  11. Dreamboat

    Dreamboat Rookie

    May 22, 2009
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    The academy is six months long. They have two classes each year graduating in April and October. You have to be at least 21 years old to enter, and have either two years of military experience or the equivalent of two years of college under your belt. They don't want kids right out of high school. And you pay for college with student loans and part-time jobs. For locals, City College and City University are pretty cheap right now, and would have been even more so 15 to 20 years ago.
  12. Ballettmaus

    Ballettmaus Hit and Run

    Apr 30, 2009
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    I would suppose he didn't have any other choice but to go with what she would be saying. I think in the back of his mind he knew this would be a one-night-stand and he took what he got because he seemed to have a crush on her through the first half of season 5. But she's his boss and in that situation she was the boss in every sense of the way, so giving his "desire" for her, he certainly would have said yes had she wanted this to continue but he also didn't really have a choice other than to accept her rejection.
    Maybe it was due to Stella though that he changed. Although I still didn't really consider him changed... all I can remember is his nervousness which I found a bit too much.

    Well, I'm not sure as to what it means... I guess we'll find out.
    If it's Jo's first case though, a month would suffice, there wouldn't be the need for 5.


    I think that isn't going to happen any time soon ;)
    Though I agree, in a TV series that should happen especially after so many years of the show running.

    They do?

    I don't know, I didn't mind that she left... I wasn't really convinced about Forlani... there was just something about her acting that I didn't like... her lines were, well, delivered.

    Yes but that was done on purpose, because, well, of the love triangle and they needed to promote that and they couldn't bring in someone who would be suspicious or whatever.
    To me, her character was boring.

    Yeah, well, I don't know how they got that idea... but I found this rather strange anyway, how he appeared out of nowhere... glad he went into nowhere again though in the same fashion :D

    That the triangle brought Mac and Stella closer or what?

    Yes, I would agree that they didn't intend but again, like they made Aubrey overly nice, the also put her in the episodes in the way they did to promote and speed up the triangle, thus shoving other charcters aside.

    It wasn't really; it was when the boy had been brought to the hospital and Stella had been there to collect clothes etc, she talked to Mac outside the room of the boy and told him she'd talk to him later and went back to the lab while Mac stayed at the hospital... for whatever reason. He obviously was on duty yet didn't do anything :D

    But that's exactly what I would like to find out. How they would explain things and if they even thought about the logic behind the things before doing them/writing them.

    Yes but that's why I said they should have scratched the shooting altogether or should have scratched Danny having been injured. Because the trauma of the shooting alone could have been dealt with much easier than Danny having been injured. That trailed a lot of what happened.
    So, had they concentrated on just Flack and Danny I would have wondered about the rest of them; why they weren't affected. That whole shooting thing was way too much in general and more than they could handle in their show with the limits they have.

    Exactly!! And I think we already agreed that this was the main problem ;)

    I'm repeating myself... they needed to build up to the triangle that then never really happened. But Aubrey came in quite late so they didn't have the entire season to build up to make Aubrey dating material. They had to do so within a few episodes and by doing so they had to go out of character. That triangle had a lot of not-so-positive consequences.

    Well, I didn't think you were meaning it in a negative way. I was just saying that it might have seemed simpler because it was in a more subtle way but that there was still a lot about the characters and a lot that defined the characters, especially Mac and Stella and their relationship.
    Simpler certainly doesn't have to be negative; quite the contrary.

    No I don't but that was what I meant; that S6 was shoving the characters too much into our faces as characters. That they often left their basics - the territority of CSI and cases to show more about the character (Mac specifically). I much prefer how everything was handled in the prior seasons, how they managed to develop characters while concentrating on cases and I think it allowed the characters to develop more. At least I found that that always was good for Stella because she could act according to the cases and adjusted according to them.

    Yes but all would have been well had they not included it. They were able to do it with the first; I agree, including it wasn't an option, however, there was no need to include the second one and I think a show like CSI shouldn't include pregnancies. The only exception would be Emily Procter on Miami now because her relationship with Eric has been going on for a while and seems happy, so... but I didn't think it was a good decision.

    Yes and she doesn't understand how Mac works and I think that's crucial as well. Stella understood how Mac works and while she also could argue with him, she could also make up with him seemingly without words, most of the time.
    Jo comes from a very different field if she's coming from the FBI (though I wonder, unless she worked in the lab in the FBI what she's doing in the lab in NY because I don't think a field agent really would transfer to become a CSI in NY but that's a different story...) so it would be natural if she and Mac have different point of views and with Mac's hard head it would also be natural if they wouldn't agree on things.

    I don't think MK gave Stella the profile, after all, the basics were done by CBS; they set up the character. MK simply seemed to have made Stella more demanding and versatile and I didn't mean she stretched the imagination, I meant she stretched her imagination. That she didn't just deliver the line she was given because she was given it but delivered it how she thought Stella could deliver it in the circumstances she was in. Or maybe the directors could work better with Stella as a character as Mac. Maybe both. I think, Stella, while more complex, is also easier to work with than Mac.

    Yes but that's exactly what I meant and can't understand.

    Well, she just lost her father figure in the episode before Flack lost Angell. I think Stella's wound was a lot deeper and fresher than Mac's because additionally Stella then had lost a friend in Angell. And she lost Aiden, which she also seemed to care about a lot.
    Given Stella's empathy I think she would have been the more logical choice one way or another. Mac might have been a good listener and he could give simple advice to Danny about marrying Lindsay but Mac isn't open about emotions and he all but gave himself up when his wife died so I think he would be very much the wrong person to talk to a grieving guy who's about to give himself up.
    Stella and Flack I often saw as sort of being like brother and sister or having such a relationship, especially in S1. But later on as well.

    Yes but in a different way. It was announced in a big way but then there was little that came out - though I don't mind that ;)

    Which was answered now... (thanks Dreamboat) It's still possible...

    That is how I understood it, that she was still a police officer while she met Mac and he as well and they sort of both became CSI's then.

    Well, that is the only way it would make sense even though it still doesn't make much more sense ;) She was wearing the same clothes, I think. They were all black at least.

    The emphasis on somehow ;)

    Which probably is what MK meant in her interview when she said that it went to the point that Stella wouldn't have tolerated it.

    I don't know, I agree that Stella could have cracked her open, as you put it and they were starting that in S3 but I guess with AB's pregnancy it all was forgotten then. There weren't much Lindsay storylines, other than her and Danny, so there really was no place for Stella or any interaction with any of the other characters.

    Can't add anything else to that :) (well, only that I wish the writers would understand...)
  13. Andromeda

    Andromeda Police Officer

    Mar 29, 2009
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    I agree, he had to go with Stella´s choice and he probably knew there was nothing to follow after that night. But if she had wanted more, then I´m sure he wouldn´t have rejected her.

    Yes, but whatever it means, the five months are probably just needed to let time pass after Stella´s exit.

    Unfortunately not ;). Which is stupid since the actors have grown with and into their characters and could come up with good ideas.

    I assume they do ;).

    Well, not that I did mind her leaving, but I just thought they could have made something out of her character.

    Yes, and she had to be different to Peyton who is not the most emphatic character, so if Aubrey had been similar there wouldn´t have been this contrast. But now it doesn´t matter anyway :D.

    They were probably playing with the idea of giving Stella a new love interest and this time a good boy. But does good guy mean to them he´s got to be a brainless man :D? Maybe MK intervened even then and didn´t want him as Stella´s boyfriend :lol:. I mean you could see that Stella didn´t take him seriously.

    She said something like that Mac is surrounded by all these women who are close to him, who he is fond of in one or the other way, and she even didn´t exclude the possibility that one day Mac and Stella might happen as a couple. Well, maybe MK ran away from this :D, because she never really was keen of that idea.

    Yes, they didn´t waste any time with putting Aubrey into action, and they couldn´t with Peyton already close to return and the triangle planned.

    Ah, OK, I remember this scene now. Yeah, well, Mac just does what he wants, doesn´t he, he doesn´t need reasons :D.

    My guess is they THINK their stories are well thought out and logical. I´d be curiuos, too, to find out if they´d admit mistakes.

    But they were obsessed by shoot-out-cliffhanger-thing and that another one of the team might get killed or so we were supposed to think. I think it would have been possible to concentrate on Danny and Flack and surround them with the other members of the team and their traumas.

    Yes, we did ;).

    She came in late because they seem to come up with the idea for a triangle very late. It seemed like another unmotivated idea; they had dropped the Hawkes- arc and love interest and came up with this crap for whatever reason.

    Absolutely, and that´s something that TPTB should have kept in their minds- less is sometimes more.

    True, they tried to cram this season full with personal stuff rather than caring for the cases, instead of combining character stuff and cases, like they did it the years before. They got out of their balance, sometimes the cases really seemed hardly to matter, while in the past they were the essence of the show, surrounded by a homogenic team that gave great insights into their characters while they were solving the cases.

    Well, as I said they probably thought this was the great opportunity to have the first CSI-baby and the first CSI-family. But this family business was much responsible for the cases being pushed into the background. It was still bearable in S5, because there were still good stories and cases to enjoy which made it possible to ignore D/L, but in S6 it was just awful, though they were less present than in S5.

    I absolutely agree, Stella knew exactly how Mac ticked, it will take Jo ages to find this out- if they write it realistic, but if they let SW have her way and come up with romantic stuff.....:rolleyes:. Well, yes, Jo descends a rung in the ladder with coming from the FBI to the CSI lab, very unusual, it should be rather vice versa. But in any way, it´s true, they come from different fields and that will cause differences in their working methods.

    Agree, the basics were set up by CBS, but I think with stretching her imagination MK also stretched the imagination of the writers, it was like a symbiosis. They inspired each other, and there´s no doubt about who lost their imagination in the end, certainly not MK.

    Yes, plus add that she just had found out about her mother and that she is dead- another loss. "All Access" put Stella and Flack close together, as very good friends, I never really saw them so much as brother and sister, but really as friends and it was great that Flack was the one then to stay with her and question her carefully and sensitively. Mac would have been too over-projective in that case. So it would have been only natural if Stella would have been the one to put Flack´s head right and talk to him.

    Yes, in that case it was just right that so little came out :D.

    Yes, thanks Dreamboat ;). I´m surprised the academy takes just such a short time, but yes, that means, the time schedule could be correct.

    Yes, I think that, too, after all it was mentioned that Stella knew Mac already for quite some years when 9/11 happened.

    I can´t remember that really, but her bra was black, I think :D.

    So to speak ;).

    Yes, I´m pretty sure she meant this.

    I agree, if Lindsay had had other stories than Danny and then the baby, maybe there would have been space and time for more interaction between Stella and Lindsay.

    Well, if only.....(once more :D)
  14. Lori K.

    Lori K. Pathologist

    Jul 26, 2008
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    I remember PV talking about that when she was promoting her triangle. Also a couple of years age Melina was on Regis I think? and they asked her about M/S getting together and she maybe in season seven or eight remember it was a few years back when I heard it. I dont think Melina would have been againest Mac and Stella getting together she seemed to suggest that way in GFD.

    I cant imagine TPTB would do it although nothing surprises me about there writing skills. It seemed they would dip into the suggestion of M/S sometimes and PV hinted of the possibility of M/S butkept people guessing . They would have more writing oppertunity if they would not start out with the romance thing and anyway for "Jo" to ever get to the level of companionship that Stella was the series will be over because every time they try there hand at romance they throw like mudd to see if it sticks without thinking it through. As you guys were saying about Aubrey. Speaking of her she would have been alot more interesting if she was a villian!!:lol:

    Well, I'm not sure as to what it means... I guess we'll find out.
    If it's Jo's first case though, a month would suffice, there wouldn't be the need for 5.
    They said the series opener was her first day on the job is that what you guys mean?

    I felt the same about Peyton. I thought she was pretty self absorbed in season three and not as bad the last time I saw her in POV but still did not care for her.

    I remember PV was pretty happy about having the first "CSI BABY". And I think when that happened it consumed her and the writing went down hill after that. But another thing I noticed and found annoying actually is how they would say something and then proceed to explain it as if the viewers did not understand what was going on.

    I really liked the scenes with Stella and Flack. Everytime you paired Stella with someone her playful mood would come out in different ways! I loved it when she and Flack got "snarky"!:lol: Melina is a terrific actress. I remember when Gary was saying Stella planted a surprise kiss on Mac that wasnt part of the script. Her playful way and the way she brought Stella to life aw geez Melina I miss you already.:(
  15. Ballettmaus

    Ballettmaus Hit and Run

    Apr 30, 2009
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    He would have been silly had he had done so. At least from where he stood.
    Though to me that would have been as if Stella had been dating her little brother...

    But what do they need five months for if it's Jo's first day on the job? I think it might be rather for Lindsay because she's supposed to have her last day of therapy and receive the medal and since those things don't happen quickly...

    They could at least give the writers some inside about how they feel about the character, if they feel something is right for the character or not.
    I wonder if we were to have a TV show if we did the same mistakes. It's so hard to imagine; of course, it's difficult and you cannot ask everyone and take on everyone's opinion because then it's going to be a mess but I'm sure you can work with the actors you're writing and can make changes to the script if an actor suggests them.
    On the other hand, I always wonder if it's really so difficult to see and why the executives are making the mistakes they're making. I guess I have a hard time understanding why they're not caring what they're making... though I suppose it's about the money.

    There are quite some characters which could have been interesting... as we said about Aubrey. Flack's sister as well, she could have played a great role while Flack was mourning Angell, for example.
    We're back at the potential and only a fraction of it used ;)

    Was Aubrey that empathetic? Maybe they wanted her to be but I think there's more to that than wanting to see where Mac works and bringing up Afghanistan. I don't think they showed enough of Aubrey for us to know what she was like, really. (Not that I want them to show more, just saying ;))

    Yes, I assume that was their intention, also someone who understands her job because a firefighter is close enough.
    But did he not have brains? I don't know, there was so little of him... seemed she was playing with him; sort of like Stella had her puppet doll. And the way she treated him, I never really considered it to be something serious, she just didn't behave as if it was going to be.

    Well, I just said that :D Anyway, maybe MK had some sort of a "mysterious" hunch that it wasn't going to be popular with fans and wouldn't last... Because that was so very hard to figure out... PV still doesn't know what goes over well and what doesn't...
    And since it happened in S5 when MK wrote GFD... I don't think she wanted a boyfriend around for that episode ;)

    MK ran away from Mac and Stella after she wrote GFD? Yeah...
    No, I think PV said that because she knew there would be a vast majority who wouldn't be happy about Aubrey and the triangle (after all, as far as I know, Peyton never was popular which is why they sacked her) and she threw in that Mac and Stella comment to soothe. Maybe that's part of the reason why MK left, because there were too many empty promises from PV and she wasn't actually doing what she said.

    Which once again shows how stupid that triangle was.

    Yeah, that made him very credible in that scene :D

    Me too. I'm not sure if they actually think that as in if they even think about what they're writing. As in thinking about it in connection with something that happened three episodes ago or maybe even the season before. I think they're just writing for the moment which is sort of the problem. And also, I think, part of the reason why characters like Mac turn out so one-dimensional. If you have an actor who is content with his role and how it is written, then you don't get much out of that (and I'm not saying GS is a bad actor; he's a good actor but I think he's just sort of resting on his laurels with Mac quite the contrary to what I felt MK did)
    What I always thought though was that there was someone who would be paid to sort of guarantee continuity. They have that for movies, maybe they don't bother for TV shows. It would be a great investment though.

    Right because it was just so likely that they kill two characters in one episode :p

    Sure it would have been possible but not without people like me whining that others were affected by the shooting too and that it doesn't make sense that only those two should have been traumatized ;)

    Yes but they could have left her out and bring in the Hawkes love interest or not. It's not like Aubrey contributed to the cases of the episodes she was in, so she wasn't really needed and the episodes could have been done without her. Why bother?
    Even Point of View could have been done without any Aubrey before, if they had insisted on bringing Peyton back though even that wasn't even necessary.
    Which is what makes that triangle even more pointless.

    Yes and they saw where it was going by the drop in ratings. If you consider it, it's not surprising. Those who watch NY because it's on don't care about the personal stuff; they might have missed an episode or two or don't follow it that closely so they're likely to be a bit confused and uninterested in the personal stuff, additionally, many fans weren't too happy with the way things were going. It's strange, you'd expect changes to happen now, with three people gone from NY, not when it's still the same team.

    Who cares about family if they watch CSI?
    If they wanted to show that a baby and a family is very much possible while being a CSI they should have thought about that at the beginning and should have given one of the characters a family right from the start.

    Also, the family/personal stuff didn't take over in S5. There was a lot especially with Danny and Linds and the baby but there was also a lot of case(s). I didn't feel like watching a soap opera and S5 wasn't focusing on just one character's personal life as S6 seemed to have done. There was something from everyone; some were overdone and too heroic others were good.

    Well, I hope they at least respect that part... I doubt they're respecting a lot of other things but that part... please!!
    Stella's and Mac's understanding was extraordinary. It cannot be matched and even if they let SW have that, it cannot be copied, so they should leave their hands off that.

    I hope not because they'd not only have lost Stella but they would also lose Mac because let's face it: He's in his late 40s (apparently) and after Peyton and Gillian and Aubrey he doesn't need the fourth woman chasing after him in a row. That would be so ridiculous. Besides, she just came on to the team. Now if she tried to hit on him and he wouldn't be interested, that would be something else yet still, it would be ridiculous since we agreed, he was no Adonis. Keep him single or put him together with Aubrey, if they must and cannot resist giving him a girl. Though I prefer single and leave any love out of his life for the next decade please.
    (Aside from the fact that I know a lot of people who would be more than upset if he was allowed to get together with the new character so quickly while the Mac and Stella angle always was denied... and it would shine a very bad light on PV as well in regards to whether she liked MK or not... a very negative light...)

    We're talking CSI NY here, so it should cause differences in their working methods and also in their way of thinking.
    It could be very interesting... if only Stella hadn't left for it... ;) I could actually like that new aspect... although, I would like it more with new writers...

    Well... surely not :D However, she could have only stretched the writers imagination had she actually had a say in her character which I don't believe she did to the point that it would have made a difference to an episode and how her character was written in that episode. If anything, she stretched the imagination of the directors, giving in her input and acting Stella out like she felt.

    True. Though it was never revealled if she thought her mother might be alive. In a way it's strange though that she, as a police officer, never tried to dig up more about her family. My 20 year old adopted cousin tried to find out something about her father last year (mother's dead).
    So, you would think that Stella actually had tried to find out something about her family by then, wouldn't you? Especially with all the resources she had at hand. And given her relationship with the professor it's strange she should have never asked him about her parents either.

    You can have a brother-sister relationship and be friends, can't you? There actually are siblings who get along well and are friends ;)

    Yes I agree. Mac would have been too close to Stella. And he was the one poking around her apartment - by himself which I guess also was because she wouldn't feel like her privacy was invaded. Not sure if that would actually have been possible, probably not but for the TV show he could go alone and maintain Stella's right to privacy since she had gone through enough.

    Agreed :D

    Me, too, I was quite surprised. Quite scary actually, in a way, if you think about that they're running around with guns afterwards ;)
    However, do forensic studies take only 2 years? I would think that they would take four years? Which puts her back on the very tight schedule ;) Especially since she, as an orphan, would definitely have had to work and might not have had time to have such a tight class schedule. But maybe she graduated early :p

    Well, since they've worked together since 1999 she must have known him :D (at least they mentioned that Mac had worked with her for over 10 years in GFD).
    But I still think she was little bit too young. A couple of years more would have made it more credible with everything that she has supposed to been doing and the position she was in.

    Which basically is another aspect why that baby wasn't a good idea. It hindered the development of Lindsay's character.

    Well, if only.....(once more :D)[/QUOTE]

    Yeah... since it was invented for CSI NY it's okay to use it in that context :D

    Lori K.
    I agree. She seemed very much to move that relationship forward, MK that is, one way or another. It didn't have to be romantic yet it certainly brought that relationship to a new step and the end was quite insinuating.


    I have already been missing her ;)
    But I think it's those things which made Stella Stella. That MK didn't just go with the script but did what she thought was right in that moment and that she did what she thought Stella would do. She didn't just deliver her lines because she was given them. She put her own rhythm into it, her own dynamic.
    There's two ways of following something you are given, may it be a script, a choreography or whatever: one is to simply to what is given to you, the other is living it; being it and being convinced of what you do. MK obviously always did or at least tried to do the second option.

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